Malls

[RedAngie]

I'm in New Jersey, and the malls I go to sometimes are the Deptford Mall and the Cherry Hill Mall. Deptford seems to be doing better than Cherry Hill with customers. Cherry Hill had a remodel years back and now is more high end, which seems to have slowed its sales. It's only crowded around the holidays.

Honestly, I don't enjoy any kind of mall anymore. If my sister and I feel like going shopping, we go to the Gloucester Outlets.

The Moorestown Mall is a shell of what it once was. With Cooper going in and housing going in, will that totally shut down what is left in the mall?

My favorite when I lived in South Jersey was the Echelon Mall. It was always hopping in the 70s thru the late 90s. I think it’s practically deserted now, just Boscov’s. I heard that Voorhees Township moved their municipal offices into the empty space.

And I understand that Burlington Center Mall closed completely even before covid.

(As a young kid, I liked the bird aviary in Cherry Hill Mall and the duck ponds in Moorestown.)

 

[PollyannaMom]

I've noticed malls around here are trying to diversify from just shopping into entertainment places - bowling alleys, arcades, bouncy-house places for kids...

There are three (in different directions) that we go to (or used to go) the most. The closest is "OK" - they've lost a few stores, but one of their anchors is a Target, and there are a lot of stand-alone stores around it, so it hasn't completely died.

The second had major problems. There was a violent incident a few years ago in one of the restaurants, and it hadn't recovered people's trust before the pandemic, so that was kind of the last straw. I haven't been there in a long time.

The third went higher-end. It is the farthest of the three for me, but the one where my eye doctor is, so I'm still there at least once a year. A few stores closed and traffic slowed for a while but seemed a little busier last time I visited.

 

[RedAngie]

My local mall Christiana is still doing well, about 95% occupied. The outlying stores in the parking lot perimeter (Cabela’s, Barnes & Noble, etc.) are big draws. One wing is upscale: Nordstrom, Coach, Williams Sonoma, Apple, and more.

Another local mall Concord is struggling.

 

[_19disnA]

Even in upscale areas, malls seem to be struggling. They have become a hangout for high school students with nothing better to do and usually ends up badly with fights or various altercations. Stories in local papers also report drug deals/shootings in the parking lot so who wants to have to deal with that? Shopping online is far safer and way more efficient if you are looking for something specific. Seems like a good idea to restrict those under a certain age if not accompanied by an adult as someone mentioned earlier, but too little too late to implement that now. Most people I know just avoid the malls and shop elsewhere. My impression is the days of people strolling the mall are largely behind us.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Some malls are doing ok, others are really bad. These days it seems the biggest growth is in the sprawling outdoor shopping centers where the storefronts face out into courtyards which were more common for outlet centers until recently. These are doing remarkably well as far as I can see.

If the malls would lower the rent they would fill. I just can't understand the logic behind watching investments die off rather than lowering rent which would breathe new life into the investments. I can't imagine why all these malls aren't full of all the little Ebay and Nextdoor businesses, whole thing makes zero sense.

Same goes for all the office lease space that is empty in big bities, it's so weird that the owners & investors prefer these buildings remaining empty to lowering rent. Cities losing massive amounts of tax income too due to the behavior, nevermind the local businesses losing tertiary business and cities losing high wage population income tax and spending. I don't get how how the whole scenario is being tolerated, I mean if these businesses are paying taxes on it how are they affording the taxes with no income?

Simple solution, lower rent, people will come and it all stops, it is all just so weird. There must be an incentive of some kind, no-one loses money on purpose so there is a benefit somewhere even if it is tough to see.

 

[kdonnel]

Some malls are doing ok, others are really bad. These days it seems the biggest growth is in the sprawling outdoor shopping centers where the storefronts face out into courtyards which were more common for outlet centers until recently. These are doing remarkably well as far as I can see.

Everything runs in cycles.

Outdoor shopping centers started suffering when malls came on the scene in the mid to late 1950's.

The current generation of architects have pivoted to outdoor shopping centers again starting in the early 2010's.

Fifty to sixty years from now it will pivot back to indoor.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Everything runs in cycles.

Outdoor shopping centers started suffering when malls came on the scene in the mid to late 1950's.

The current generation of architects have pivoted to outdoor shopping centers again starting in the early 2010's.

Fifty to sixty years from now it will pivot back to indoor.

Rinse and repeat.

Malls only showed up in the past few decades, 1960s I believe, so I am not sure there is a long enough life for there to be a pattern. I am also not sure there is a long history of cities springing to life, dying off and coming back to life so again not sure there is enough to deduce this is a tried and true pattern to be trusted. Many things die off and stay that way because the cost of revival is higher than just building somewhere new although it doesn't need to be that way.

 

[TippyThomas]

My closest mall is roughly 35 miles away and I have been there about 3 times in my life. I really haven't heard good or bad news about our mall. From what I can see online it appears to be about 85 to 90% occupied so I guess it's doing relatively well compared to some of the other accounts I've read in this thread.

 

[ronandannette]

I go to 3 malls regularly in Markham, Scarborough and Pickering Ont.

The Markham and Scarborough malls are busy all the time. Pickering is less busy. All the malls are clean and have nice stores, and I always feel safe.

I would say the malls here are also doing fine, but I’m not a mall person. When I do go, it’s for a specific reason, in-and-out as quickly as possible. I do lament the state of Canadian retailing, what with so many large chains closing over the past 10 years. It makes it hard for malls to have a real “anchor” tenant anymore - in most now it’s only the Bay.

 

[kdonnel]

Malls only showed up in the past few decades, 1960s I believe, so I am not sure there is a long enough life for there to be a pattern. I am also not sure there is a long history of cities springing to life, dying off and coming back to life so again not sure there is enough to deduce this is a tried and true pattern to be trusted. Many things die off and stay that way because the cost of revival is higher than just building somewhere new although it doesn't need to be that way.

I'm not saying that where the latest style shopping is built will stay the same.

I am not sure if the term suburban decay has been coined yet but we are certainly seeing it play out in the suburbs of Metro Atlanta.

New construction and development moves on to new areas, abandoning the old areas. When the construction moves on it is done in the latest style.

Exterior shopping centers are a little easier to repurpose than giant interior malls. I think that is why the interior malls sit dying and decaying.

Perhaps in suburbs that don't have room to expand older areas get redeveloped but in areas where land is still plentiful, everything just moves a little further away in whatever is the latest trend which I do think repeat in cycles.

 

[ronandannette]

I'm not saying that where the latest style shopping is built will stay the same.

I am not sure if the term suburban decay has been coined yet but we are certainly seeing it play out in the suburbs of Metro Atlanta.

New construction and development moves on to new areas, abandoning the old areas. When the construction moves on it is done in the latest style.

Exterior shopping centers are a little easier to repurpose than giant interior malls. I think that is why the interior malls sit dying and decaying.

Perhaps in suburbs that don't have room to expand older areas get redeveloped but in areas where land is still plentiful, everything just moves a little further away in whatever is the latest trend which I do think repeat in cycles.

Our city is extremely large and spreading ever-larger. The new areas pretty quickly develop their own retail/commercial facilities but for the past 30 years it is always in strip mall/plaza form. I doubt we will ever see the construction of another traditional, multi-story indoor shopping mall here.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm not saying that where the latest style shopping is built will stay the same.

I am not sure if the term suburban decay has been coined yet but we are certainly seeing it play out in the suburbs of Metro Atlanta.

New construction and development moves on to new areas, abandoning the old areas. When the construction moves on it is done in the latest style.

Exterior shopping centers are a little easier to repurpose than giant interior malls. I think that is why the interior malls sit dying and decaying.

Perhaps in suburbs that don't have room to expand older areas get redeveloped but in areas where land is still plentiful, everything just moves a little further away in whatever is the latest trend which I do think repeat in cycles.

We had a mall in our area that was built too early for development. When it was built it was located in what was considered fairly far south. There wasn't a whole lot around there (more commercial stuff with not as much neighborhoods). It was built in '97 and fully closed down with exception to Burlington (as they owned their store and land) in 2015 but had been fairly empty for a while before that. Burlington has since closed down just this January and the site is being redeveloped (all is completely torn down) as an expansion for Garmin (who is headquartered here and has their large campus located not too too far away from the site). Originally it had been planned to be more like a sports center but that ended up falling through.

The cities in my county are landlocked in a sense that they cannot expand. Expansion can occur west and north in one city, west and south in another and south in another and it is doing so. Had that mall been built now chances are it would have survived in today's age if they were careful about the planning and development of what stores went in. It would need to attract both high end (due to the types of new development) as well as more economical choices (due to existing development). It was always seen as the lesser of the main malls though but it did have a movie theater and more stuff things that the other main mall did not have.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I would say the malls here are also doing fine, but I’m not a mall person. When I do go, it’s for a specific reason, in-and-out as quickly as possible. I do lament the state of Canadian retailing, what with so many large chains closing over the past 10 years. It makes it hard for malls to have a real “anchor” tenant anymore - in most now it’s only the Bay.

Have all your Sears location been filled in? Ours finally have - took a while.

I sure miss downtown Eaton's and the Bay. The big mammoth department stores of yesterday and my youth.

 

[Travel60]

The mail nearest us used to be a "premium" mall. Our county has one of the highest income levels in the country but can't seem to keep a premium store in the mall. Macy's is still there but is a junk store - they must use it as a consolidation store. Penneys is there but kind of junky. Nordstroms is there but very empty - I tried to buy a mother-of-the-groom dress there a couple of years back and was told they don't carry those lines anymore.

I'm sure the mall management and the stores would cite "economy" and "changing tastes" but I think it is the variety of stores they have let in (in the chase for dollars). Lots of teen stores full of fast fashion, comic book stores, really sketchy-looking stores that you wonder how they can possibly sell enough to make rent (possibly drug fronts). As a result, the mall is full...... of teens who just want to hang out, not spend much money. The teens are not always the best behaved (loud and rowdy at best, one mass shooting a few years ago) so we adults limit our
visits to early in the day and quick in-and-out.

The mall near my daughter has become a health oriented center. Much of it rented to a local hospital for various clinics, one big store rented to a gym, etc. It may survive.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As a result, the mall is full...... of teens who just want to hang out, not spend much money. The teens are not always the best behaved (loud and rowdy at best, one mass shooting a few years ago) so we adults limit our
visits to early in the day and quick in-and-out.

This has been the case for many decades. Not the mass shooting part but rather that teens congregate at the mall and often can be seen as loud and rowdy. Now truly that can be an issue in places, such that in my metro the largest city has summer curfews for entertainment districts and it affects the desirability of an area depending on the exact behaviors (like I mentioned about one of the shopping areas here people don't want to deal with mobs of 50-75 teens destroying cars and jumping people) but the act of teens just wanting to hang out and window shop, spending time with their friends, etc is a tale as old as time so it would be expected that's the case. Our main mall has high end shops more than it used to but it does not lower the amount of teens that go there.

 

[SandyinMonterey]

The "traditional" indoor mall in my area has been sinking for some time. Many stores closed, too many. Covid made it worse. The has been talks and plans to make it a mixed space with stores, housing, parks, etc. but county can't come to an agreement. There is an outdoor mall not far on other side of town. It has expensive, high end stores and a lot of restaurants. I think the restaurants are the real draw. Parking is a real pain. If not there before things open, it's hard to find a spot. Always crowded. The mall also has a skating rink, movies theater, hotel and housing. I know the housing (condos, townhouses and some homes) are very expensive.

 

[maxaroni]

My favorite when I lived in South Jersey was the Echelon Mall. It was always hopping in the 70s thru the late 90s. I think it’s practically deserted now, just Boscov’s. I heard that Voorhees Township moved their municipal offices into the empty space.

And I understand that Burlington Center Mall closed completely even before covid.

(As a young kid, I liked the bird aviary in Cherry Hill Mall and the duck ponds in Moorestown.)

Used to love Echelon Mall as well. Our first house in South Jersey was equal distance to Deptford Mall and Echelon Mall and would always go to Echelon. The office I retired from was near the former Echelon Mall and its a shell of what it was but it was a place to go for some take out.

 

[maxaroni]

My local mall Christiana is still doing well, about 95% occupied. The outlying stores in the parking lot perimeter (Cabela’s, Barnes & Noble, etc.) are big draws. One wing is upscale: Nordstrom, Coach, Williams Sonoma, Apple, and more.

Another local mall Concord is struggling.

We go up to Christiana, it’s about 45 minutes for us. We like Cabela’s and some of the restaurants in the area. DH has his oncologist up in that area so will time it so we get lunch out. Dover Mall is nothing to write home about but don’t always want to travel to Christiana, unless we have to. We used to be big mall shoppers, not so much anymore.

Grew up in North Jersey and loved going shopping with my mom. Girls day out and had many malls in our backyard: Bergen Mall, Garden State Plaza, Fashion center, Riverside Square came a bit later.

 

[fla4fun]

It would need to attract both high end (due to the types of new development) as well as more economical choices (due to existing development).

That is what they did with Mall at Millenia here in Orlando. One half of the mall is the high end stores and the other end of the mall is the more mainstream stores. Where they meet in the center of the mall is focused on the food court upstairs and table service restaurants downstairs. It seems to do well, as does Florida Mall and the two outlet malls. Other malls, like Fashion Square and West Oaks didn’t fare as well.

 

[bcla]

Depends on the location. There was a mall that was brand new and state of the art when I was young, but recently they pretty much closed all of it (other than Walmart) and are turning it into an office building. But there are other malls that are still doing pretty well, but tend to be in more affluent areas.

But then there are odd ones. The San Francisco Centre just lost Nordstrom and the owner (Westfield) has decided to turn it over to its lenders. But that's a weird situation because fewer people are working in San Francisco with remote work and there are noted issues with the area. I think they might even be hurting because convention business is down. But then they have another mall in Valley Fair in Santa Clara/San Jose that's doing exceptionally well.