* * *Major News* * * about Epcot's Spaceship Earth

[plutospup]

Best Zoo...Well of course it's Clyde Peeling's Reptiland in Allenwood, PA. Who could disagree with that?!

Ok, I'll be quiet now, and go back to my Disney's Animal Kingdom lesson.

 

[MJMcBride]

Well, if the Bronx Zoo is so Awesomely awesome, then a site labeled "BestZoos" should know about it right?

Interesting how the people arguing FOR the Bronx zoo are all from the area.

Most people I know (and I know a lot of them) who have been to both zoos feel the bronx zoo is better than the San Diego ZOO. Like you said, the Wild Animal Park is different. Again, most people feel the San Diego and Bronx zoos are a major cut above the rest or at least used to be. Other zoos are closing the gap. I obviously have a bias since I've been involved w/ the Bronx Zoo for many years. But this is besides the point. The point is the exhibits at DAK are on par with the top zoos and do a very nice job. Again, I point to the avaries and bat exhibit. Even the exhibits around ther Tree of Life are effective "immersion" exhibits.

By the way, the Little Red story maybe corny, childish, or even lame but its hardly offensive. You are way too critical.

Now did Imagineering miss the mark with Soarin' or Buzz? Those are relatively new rides.

 

[mitros]

Jeez, what happened to the original thread about SE? I love the way these threads on the rumor board can turn totally around and wind up on another track. Now we are talking about zoos. The rumors board, gotta love it...........

Gutting SE to Zoos, where's the connection?

 

[exDS vet]

No animals real or AA were harmed during the posting and replying to this thread. Thanks OP for starting a lively discussion. After all, that's what it's all about anyway. Personally, I liked the TV show "The New Zoo Review". No connection, but what the hell.

 

[wilki32]

Just a quick one from over the pond and a relative Disney novice compared to some of you 'veterans', SE, love it, maybe I'm easily pleased!
Zoos, first time I heard of the world famous San Diego Zoo was in Madagascar, Bronx Zoo, sorry never heard of it, but when you compare UK zoos to AK there is no comparison so it is special to us with the added bonus of Disney!
One more thing, Dancing bear, not sure whether you have been to Disneyland Paris? I love WDW never been to DL but DLP is as good if not better, rides and the imagineering. The reasons for DLP being so much in debt are twofold, location and opening in a worldwide recession.

 

[DancingBear]

One more thing, Dancing bear, not sure whether you have been to Disneyland Paris? I love WDW never been to DL but DLP is as good if not better, rides and the imagineering. The reasons for DLP being so much in debt are twofold, location and opening in a worldwide recession.

I haven't been yet, but note that my comment above was about the Studios, not DLP.

 

[DancingBear]

By the way, the Little Red story maybe corny, childish, or even lame but its hardly offensive. You are way too critical.

YoHo said it was stupid and I said it was silly. That doesn't sound too far from "corny, childish or even lame" to me. You are way too sensitive.

 

[dbm20th]

Interesting how the people arguing FOR the Bronx zoo are all from the area.

Come on now. Who's the one trying to start a "flame war"? What state are you from? I'm willing to bet you may live closer to the San Diego Zoo than I live to the Bronx Zoo. I know this, it will be pretty darn close.

I don't want to go on about zoos. The other posters are correct. That's not what this is about. We'll just end up aggrivating each other for something that is very off topic. Agreed?

 

[dbm20th]

YoHo said it was stupid and I said it was silly. That doesn't sound too far from "corny, childish or even lame" to me. You are way too sensitive.

Acually that is exactly what was said...

AK's Theme of rescuing Baby red is offensivly stupid and a waste.

To me, this Little Red thing is a minor detail aimed to get kids involved for a few minutes and get some audience participation, and maybe even tell a story about a real problem facing the elephants in Africa. Is it brilliant? No, it is not, but not everything is brilliant. Heard the jokes on JC lately?

Kilimajaro Safari is one the best attractions I have ever experienced anywhere, and I certainly won't let a dozen or so lines of average dialogue ruin something that spectacular. But that's just me.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

Yes, this has gotten way off topic. I has served its purpose to show how some people can not have a discussion about ideas, they insist their position is correct and all others are either idiots or mindless drones for thinking otherwise. Last I saw this was a DISCUSSION board, for an open exchange of ideas, I thought there were no right or wrong answers.

It is sad how Future World seems so neglected, we usually just pass through, nothing seems to interest us. I think the problem is the idea of don't mess with success-it breeds complacency. If you kept it all the same, why would people come back year after year, bring their children, then grandchildren if all they were going to see was the same ride they did in 1971?

Change is good

 

[MJMcBride]

Yes, this has gotten way off topic. I has served its purpose to show how some people can not have a discussion about ideas, they insist their position is correct and all others are either idiots or mindless drones for thinking otherwise. Last I saw this was a DISCUSSION board, for an open exchange of ideas, I thought there were no right or wrong answers.

It is sad how Future World seems so neglected, we usually just pass through, nothing seems to interest us. I think the problem is the idea of don't mess with success-it breeds complacency. If you kept it all the same, why would people come back year after year, bring their children, then grandchildren if all they were going to see was the same ride they did in 1971?

Change is good

It has gotten way off topic but I think thats OK. Thats the fun of it. I certainly don't think I'm right and everyone else is wrong. In fact, when it comes to this topic of changes I'm usually in the minority in thinking thats its OK. There are a lot of DISers who really get upset about it.

 

[DancingBear]

Yes, this has gotten way off topic. I has served its purpose to show how some people can not have a discussion about ideas, they insist their position is correct and all others are either idiots or mindless drones for thinking otherwise. Last I saw this was a DISCUSSION board, for an open exchange of ideas, I thought there were no right or wrong answers.

It is sad how Future World seems so neglected, we usually just pass through, nothing seems to interest us. I think the problem is the idea of don't mess with success-it breeds complacency. If you kept it all the same, why would people come back year after year, bring their children, then grandchildren if all they were going to see was the same ride they did in 1971?

Change is good

If you're interested in having a discussion, then why don't you discuss the issues raised (for example regarding the loss of cohesive theming and the importance of attractions the entire family can enjoy together)? Instead, you seem to be saying that YoHo and I are advocating "don't mess with success" and "keep it all the same."

FOR ABOUT THE 10TH TIME, WE ARE NOT SAYING NOTHING SHOULD CHANGE. IN FACT, BOTH YOHO AND I HAVE SEVERAL TIMES REMARKED ON THE NEGLECT IN FUTURE WORLD. Rather, AGAIN, the point is discussing what it is that makes people bring their children and grandchildren back to Disney's theme parks again and again.

It's more than just opening new rides--other theme parks do that, but don't invoke the connection and nostalgia that Disney's theme parks have historically had. That's the "Magic" that current Disney continues to use for promotional purposes, but (we are arguing here) which Disney has not cultivated in recent years.

 

[DancingBear]

Acually that is exactly what was said...

On review, you're right, YoHo said it was "offensively stupid."

 

[wilki32]

Not sure whether this information is out there or whether it is that relevant but with regard to the comment on how to keep getting people to go back to Disney, what are the increases/decreases to other theme parks across the US.
I'm sure I've read on here that there was a sizeable increase for Disney last year, surely that would mean Disney are doing something right!
Disneybear, well worth a trip to DLP, Studios is small but quite different and with the addition of ToT should improve, a work in progress one may say.

 

[Another Voice]

what are the increases/decreases to other theme parks across the US. I'm sure I've read on here that there was a sizeable increase for Disney last year, surely that would mean Disney are doing something right!

The state of Florida is reporting a 7.6% increase - and a record number of visitors.
WDW is reporting only a 5% increase and is remains below the attendance from the year 2000.

In addition Hawaii, Vegas, the national parks and othera are reporting record attendance. Airline travel is now exceeding 9/11 levels. It's clear that people are traveling, but WDW is less of a draw today than it was just a few years ago.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

My post was not refering to YoHo or DancingBear, I did not intentionally make it vague, I thought we were talking about the faults of Disney. But you of course assume it is about you, I should not be surprised. It is not all about you or me for that fact. It is about what the whole finds acceptable, in the most cost effective way. If that means that the coolest thing is not done or that things are scaled back becase they are cost prohibitive or not cost effective, so be it. You do not always need to be the best to win. Strive for excellence, learn from your mistakes, but constantly move forward.

 

[dbm20th]

The state of Florida is reporting a 7.6% increase - and a record number of visitors.
WDW is reporting only a 5% increase and is remains below the attendance from the year 2000.

In addition Hawaii, Vegas, the national parks and othera are reporting record attendance. Airline travel is now exceeding 9/11 levels. It's clear that people are traveling, but WDW is less of a draw today than it was just a few years ago.

To be fair, MK, Epcot, AK, DL, and MGM all remain the top five attended parks in the country, so people are not traveling to other theme parks either. For one reason or another, they are drifting from theme parks, if that is the conclusion we draw from that data. Perhaps pricing is more the issue

 

[Another Voice]

so people are not traveling to other theme parks either.

Walt Disney World doesn't compete with other parks. It truely is a "resort destination" where people will plan well ahead and stay more than three days. Going to a Six Flags park is, at best, a long weekend. But WDW is in the league of Vegas, Hawaii, Europe and other big ticket destinations.

That's is why Disney is nervous. Competing against Universal means just opening another roller coaster, but competing against Washington D.C. for the family vacation means everything from attractions to the prices for hotels, transportation and meals. For the last six years, WDW's "perceived value" has been decreasing and now Disney is really seeing it's effect. More and more people beleive they'll get more bang for the buck going to Hawaii than to the Mouse.

 

[wilki32]

So are the figures higher than pre 2000, our first trip was in 2000 and I would imagine a lot of people would have taken the 'special millenium holiday'
In my business if I could get a 5% increase year on year after 35 years I think I would be quite content.

 

[DancingBear]

My post was not refering to YoHo or DancingBear, I did not intentionally make it vague, I thought we were talking about the faults of Disney. But you of course assume it is about you, I should not be surprised. It is not all about you or me for that fact. It is about what the whole finds acceptable, in the most cost effective way. If that means that the coolest thing is not done or that things are scaled back becase they are cost prohibitive or not cost effective, so be it. You do not always need to be the best to win. Strive for excellence, learn from your mistakes, but constantly move forward.

Who exactly were you referring to in your post? There have only been sporadic posts here along the "don't change anything" line; that sentiment certainly hasn't been central to the discussion that has gone on for several pages.

But in any event the contention is that it's not "about what the whole finds acceptable, in the most cost effective way." Rather, it's about greatness, and having a profitable long-term plan that's based on greatness and not about cost effectiveness per se. Great Imagineering isn't about cost-effectiveness (which is not the same as saying its does not operate within budget realities).

Is cutting Imagineering's personnel, budgets and scope of responsibilities part of "striving for excellence"? Dinorama? Big Hat? Journey Into Your Imagination v.2? Soarin' has an amazing ride system, but couldn't it also have an amazing story?