* * *Major News* * * about Epcot's Spaceship Earth

[dbm20th]

In addition Hawaii, Vegas, the national parks and othera are reporting record attendance. Airline travel is now exceeding 9/11 levels. It's clear that people are traveling, but WDW is less of a draw today than it was just a few years ago.

Can you supply your sourcing information here? I am interested in reading this, especially the airline information. I was not aware that the airlines had fully recovered like that.

Also, can you offer any source you may have on how WDW compares as a destination to the other places you have mentioned?

Your point about not comparing to theme parks is well taken and I agree with you. I am curious how it compares to the other destinations one can think of.

 

[MJMcBride]

Is cutting Imagineering's personnel, budgets and scope of responsibilities part of "striving for excellence"? Dinorama? Big Hat? Journey Into Your Imagination v.2? Soarin' has an amazing ride system, but couldn't it also have an amazing story?

I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone. I just think you and YoHo are too crictical of Imagineering. Has Imagineering always been great. How is Snow White's Scary Adventures or Peter Pan's Flight some great stroke of genius. (by the way, I like the latter a lot). They're dark rides w/ scenes from movies. Once the AA tech was established w/ Abe Lincoln, it seems to me this would be easy.

I agree the HM and POTC were imagineering jackpots. But some of the stuff at MK and Epcot were nothing great or cutting edge when they opened. World of Motion was certainly standard Disney fare. I think Test Track is a much more interesting ride (and I'm no thrill ride fan).

I agree that Disney has taking the easy way out here. Soarin' is big in DCA so they just ship it to Epcot. Or Indy Jones is big in DL so they make it Dinosaur in DAK. But I for one appreciate getting Soarin' since I have never been and don't plan on going to DL.

I still say Imagineering has hit some "jackpots." Maybe they are missing more than they used too. Or maybe some long time Disney fans are harder to please. I don't know. I love Kilmanajaroo Safari, Fantasmic, Buzz Lightyear, Dinosaur, Test Track, and some of the other more recent additions.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

This is getting old. Again, back to you and the whole Imagineering thing.

I am simply saying that, perhaps, Disney has faltered because they have not felt the need to make too many changes, has rested on their success while the rest caught up. Maybe they cut Imagineering because they felt there was not a need for a large staff to re-invent the wheel. Another poster pointed out, once they got Abe right, they could duplicate the results with little more investment. Why not improve on what has worked in the past?
I could spend all day messing around with food in the kitchen and come up with the same thing in a cookbook, or I could use that recipie in a cookbook and improve on it. I don't need a huge staff to do that.

Like MJM pointed out, they have done some good things, but, at Soarin', would a better story make the ride better? You seem to think so. That is your opinion. That does not mean people will not enjoy it or think it is great with out a great story. I have not been on the ride, so bear with me, I'm just trying to make a point. I depends on what you definition of greatness is. I think TOT and Rockin' Rollercoaster are great rides (I don't even pay attention to the story), and Space Mountain is just OK, I Think they could make it better by changing the ride a bit. You might think that Space Mountain in CA is the best ride in the world, another RollerCoaster fan might find it lame. It just depends on what you base it on.

You must remember, the original was opened 50+ years ago. There was no jet travel, let alone space travel, pc's the internet, heck even more than 2 1/2 channels on tv. People expect alot more out of their entertainment (which is still a business), and that might mean changing some of the things we hold near and dear.

 

[dbm20th]

This is getting old. Again, back to you and the whole Imagineering thing.

Just curious who you are referring to here?

 

[DancingBear]

You're right, this is getting old. Why do you choose to end your post with "that might mean changing some of the things we hold near and dear" when, again, we're not arguing against change in general. You say:

I am simply saying that, perhaps, Disney has faltered because they have not felt the need to make too many changes, has rested on their success while the rest caught up.

And that's a statement I totally agree with. So how exactly do you perceive that my position is different than yours?

I'm complaining about the failure to keep Imagineering relevant by cutting its personnel, budgets and scope of responsibilities. I want them to continue to be relevant so they can continue to change and add to the parks (and the whole resort) in amazing and creative ways.

Regarding AA figures, note that the Ben Franklin figure in American Adventure was much more advanced than Abe. But Disney's apparently not interested in putting in more advanced AAs in WDW because of the cost of maintenance. YoHo can speak for himself, of course, but I don't think he'd object to a classic ride like Pirates being updated by installing more advanced and lifelike AA figures. I specifically said that Universe of Energy could have benefitted from an AA update to the dinos.

I'm not having much success here, but one point I'm trying to make is that it's not about whether I like Space Mountain or Kilimanjaro Safari, and someone else thinks their lame, or any differences of individual opinions about individual attractions. It's about whether there exists a Philosophy for preserving the long-term value of the parks vs. a short-term marketing concept for selling more pins and snowglobes.

Disney didn't get to where it was even in, say, 1990, by just doing "what the whole finds acceptable, in the most cost-effective way". They did it by making "Magic". And they did it within the limits of budgets and with the objective of making profits. And they did make profits.

 

[DisneyBaby!]

I think my point goes back to the begining of this, If I can remember that far back, when people, in general, were opposed to the idea of changing some of the "classic" rides. That is where I am refering to people being opposed to change.

I think my points, however poorly worded or misconstrued, is that this is a company, that operates for the purpose of making money. They do create magic, but I think my point is most that there are many people who do not get it or buy into it and see anything that Disney does as marketing, cheap sounvineers, expensive hotel rooms and overpriced amusment parks. I get the magic, and have been retuning for years, as well as millions of others but the person that created it, it might just be a marketing tool that you are willing to buy into. I have worked for enough large companies to know that there are some people fanatically devoted to the company and others that just see it as a job that pays the bills, and both types do the same quality of work, come up with the same kinds of ideas.

 

[dbm20th]

But Disney's apparently not interested in putting in more advanced AAs in WDW because of the cost of maintenance.

Isn't that part of the POTC update? I mean, besides the Capt Jack thing. Aren't they also putting in new generation AA? I pretty at least the captain barking out the orders was going to be new.

 

[DancingBear]

I get the magic, and have been retuning for years, as well as millions of others but the person that created it, it might just be a marketing tool that you are willing to buy into. I have worked for enough large companies to know that there are some people fanatically devoted to the company and others that just see it as a job that pays the bills, and both types do the same quality of work, come up with the same kinds of ideas.

First, I'm not talking about fanatical devotion of workers to their Company, but creative people fanatically devoted to doing their best work. But, really, in the current context, I'm talking literally about whether the power within the Company to shape the parks is vested in the Imagineering division or in the Marketing and Accounting divisions.

 

[DancingBear]

Isn't that part of the POTC update? I mean, besides the Capt Jack thing. Aren't they also putting in new generation AA? I pretty at least the captain barking out the orders was going to be new.

That could be. Mainly I was thinking about a place like Spaceship Earth which could benefit from some more realistic figures in several scenes.

 

[Another Voice]

Isn't that part of the POTC update? I mean, besides the Capt Jack thing. Aren't they also putting in new generation AA?

.
No, the buzz is basically they will be redressing some existing characters and installing some left-over 'World of Motion' and other "spare" AA figures. The effect for Davy Jones will be a projection onto a mist screen and not a figure at all. They actually did something similar to this a while ago to Disneyland's 'Pirates' - they added several 'World of Motion' figures into various scenes (most notably the lift hill at the end of the ride). New dialouge to "carry" the 'Where's Captain Jack Sparrow' plotline. There is also a whisper about that name of the attraction itself will be changed to be similar to the movie's Curse of the Black Pearl & Dead Man's Chest subtitles, i.e. 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Expanded Store at the Exit' or something like that.

According to the rumors, the financial investment and the actual "upgrading" of the show are going to be very minimal - but the impact on the overall 'Pirates' story will be substantial.

 

[Linzybrooke]

My biggest issue with Imagineering deals with recruitment. I went to college to become an Imagineer; I'm not qualified. Back in the day an Imagineer could be anybody. A great deal of them had their backgrounds in theatre, art and architecture; now you seem to have to be an engineer. In fact, the annual Imagineering contest, Imagin-Nations, that is held for people to attempt to break into the organization is a joke. Who is qualified to enter? I copy this from the entry website,though have deleted the contact info for space reasons.

1. All participants must be either a current member of one of the participating associations, or majoring in one of the listed university majors.

University Majors

• Fine Art
• Digital Art
• Theater Design/Production
• Creative Writing

Engineering and Architecture Associations

American Indian Science and Engineering Society (AISE)
Mexican American Engineers and Scientists (MAES)
National Organization of Minority Architects (NOMA)
Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers (SHPE)
Society of Women Engineers (SWE)
National Society of Black Engineers (NSBE)

So, basically, since I am an average white girl who has a degree in theatrical design and painting I can't compete since I already graduated...the talent pool seems to be a little bit overlooked. It's also funny that a theatre or art student can enter while in college, but once you graduate you have to be an Engineer or Minority Architect... There is nothing wrong with the organizations they allow to enter, but it doesn't seem like a fair competition if they keep so many people out of it. I'm not saying I'm the next Marc Davis, but I would like the opportunity to enter. Until they fix this and other talent pool problems Imagineering is headed for more problems. They got rid of most of the their quality talent and started hiring structural engineers and mechanics to come up with the stories and rides, hence the loss of storyline and cohesive themeing. The Imagineers in place now seem to try to churn out as many rides as they can in record time in order to suck more people in by the advertising about the new attractions. Lasseter says he is going to change things and really start recruiting again; lets hope he means it. Its all about the Right People in the Right Place at the Right Time to create quality.



Now, I have a question about "Soarin'" When I was there last June the scene where you fly over Disneyland is during Christmas. Is it still like that? Shouldn't it be Disneyland during the other 10 1/2 months of the year? I enjoy the ride but that really bothered me.

 

[DancingBear]

Linzy, it looks like this is a contest only for actively enrolled students:

2. All participants must be full-time students, junior or senior undergraduate level in college as of June 1st, 2006...

So nobody who's graduated can enter, even if they are members of the named societies.

http://www.disney.go.com/disneycareers/imaginations/assets/guide.html

Good luck in pursuing a job in the post-Lasseter WDI!

 

[Linzybrooke]

Linzy, it looks like this is a contest only for actively enrolled students:

So nobody who's graduated can enter, even if they are members of the named societies.

http://www.disney.go.com/disneycareers/imaginations/assets/guide.html

Good luck in pursuing a job in the post-Lasseter WDI!

A couple of years ago is wasn't students only. I have the original rules from 2003 saved to the computer. If you combined current rule 1 and current rule 2 you have original current rule 1, it also used to include graduate students but they had to be in architecture. Its just wierd to me that they want such a limited pool of talent for a competition whos purpose is to recruit and get new ideas for attractions, ya know?

Anyway, thanks for the support DancingBear!

 

[Planogirl]

Lots of imagineers ended up at Universal. I wonder if any of them will try to come back to the Mouse House?

I don't agree by the way that WDW is only competing with Hawaii and Vegas and such places. It's also competing with the whole state of Florida. In case no one has noticed there's a LOT to do in Florida. People will still go to WDW but will they cut their trips short in order to see more and spend less?

 

[Linzybrooke]

Here we go, I got this link of the Planning Board and find it very interesting.
http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/

 

[pepperw23]

Spaceship Mountain being gutted is as dumb as saying they are going to demolish the castle in MK. You can believe everything you overhear. You should also not post everything you over hear. Hey, Thanks for the ***MAJOR NEWS*** anyway.

Thanks
WDWFAN72

Be nice.

Remember this is the "Rumors" board. K?

 

[WdWFan72]

I know this is the rumor board (Captian Obvious). But the original post was not a rumor. If you read the first post of this thread it it only based on hear say. MickeyMoper overheard someone whom he assumed (and you know what happens when we assume) was a cm talking. This is a thread which should of never been started. I've said it before this not the board to post hear say. MickeyMoper, I hope you are happy you started a flame war.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I know this is the rumor board (Captian Obvious). But the original post was not a rumor. If you read the first post of this thread it it only based on hear say. MickeyMoper overheard someone whom he assumed (and you know what happens when we assume) was a cm talking. This is a thread which should of never been started. I've said it before this not the board to post hear say. MickeyMoper, I hope you are happy you started a flame war.

Webster Dictionary:

rumor
1. general talk not based on definite knowledge; mere gossip; hearsay
2. an unconfirmed report, story, or statement in general circulation

Now, you could make a case against labeling this thread as "News", but aren't there really bigger things in life to worry about?

MG

 

[ChrisFL]

Funny, it looks to me like the name of this forum is the "Disney Rumors and News" in which case the original topic for this thread was incorrect, it should have been "Major Rumor" unless it's been officially announced.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Funny, it looks to me like the name of this forum is the "Disney Rumors and News" in which case the original topic for this thread was incorrect, it should have been "Major Rumor" unless it's been officially announced.

My point exactly.
In my opinion, the OP did not deserve the whipping he took. That's a good way to drive away nice, friendly people who are new to the boards, and just trying to contribute.

MG