Major FLDS raid..51 girls removed

well, a lot of the "extra" wives are on the government dole as "single mothers" too :sad2:

so there's money coming from a few different sources.



That's true, but the upkeep of the "town", for lack of a better term, is being paid for by Jeffs, from what I've read. A lot of the men are "salaried" by Jeffs also.
 
Did anyone ever consider the fact that we don't know all the details of the FLDS community? I know a lot of people who have left that God forsaken place and they are not deformed and mental. So it's great to see that you got the opportunity to lay your eyes on them but that does not mean that you know the first thing about them. It is a bit hasty to assume that they are mentally deformed because of their gene pull. I think it’s the people who judge them that force them to become such a reclusive community. Maybe we should be the ones that need to re evaluate ourselves before passing judgment.

A sect of Mormons has the largest population of fumarase deficiency in the world. A rare disorder that until recently was unheard of is cropping up in Colorado City, Arizona, and Hildale, Utah.
Those two towns are the home bases of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a break away group from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The group is composed of many of the descendants of Joseph Smith Jessop one of the founders of the communities, and his wife either of which could have carried the gene.

The disability is caused by an enzyme irregularity that causes severe mental retardation brought on by cousin marriage.

"Arizona has about half the world's population of known fumarase deficiency patients," said Dr. Theodore Tarby, a pediatric neurologist who has treated many of the children at Arizona clinics under contracts with the state.

"It exists in a certain percentage of the broader population but once you get a tendency to inbreed you're inbreeding people who have the gene there, so you markedly increase the risk of developing the condition," he said.


It has become common enough among the group to be nicknamed "Polygamist's downs". The condition causes not only severe mental retardation but also unusual facial features, brain malformation, and epileptic seizures.

The two towns make up the community of about 10,000 people who shun outsiders. They broke away from the Mormon faith 72 years ago over their views of polygamy. About 85% of the residents are the blood relatives of two men, John Y. Barlow and Joseph Smith Jessop.

"There aren't any new people coming in. It's a closed door and that gene just keeps getting passed around," said Bruce Wisan, a court-appointed accountant overseeing a trust of the sect's assets.

They avoid all forms of media. The women dress in conservative 19th century clothing. They marry young and marrying a cousin is common practice.

"The disease itself is very rare in the rest of the world," said Dr. Vinodh Narayanan of Arizona's St. Joseph's Hospital & Medical Center and Barrow Neurological Institute. Doctors worldwide had only studied about 10 cases just a decade ago.

"Once you get people within in the same community marrying, then the chances grow of having two people carrying the exact same mutation."


The community doesn't believe that the children affected with the condition suffer because of inbreeding. They think it's in the water. They are wrong but with outdated theories which as that the disease will continue to crop up in town.
Source: news.yahoo.com
 
Did anyone ever consider the fact that we don't know all the details of the FLDS community? I know a lot of people who have left that God forsaken place and they are not deformed and mental. So it's great to see that you got the opportunity to lay your eyes on them but that does not mean that you know the first thing about them. It is a bit hasty to assume that they are mentally deformed because of their gene pull. I think it’s the people who judge them that force them to become such a reclusive community. Maybe we should be the ones that need to re evaluate ourselves before passing judgment.

Aside from the deformity issue, which I know nothing about, I think society DOES need to judge a community which is marrying off and forcing children to beget children.
 
Birth defect is plaguing children in FLDS towns
Fumarase Deficiency afflicts 20, is linked to marriages of close kin

By John Hollenhorst
KSL-TV
Published: Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2006 11:36 p.m. MST
4 comments E-MAIL | PRINT | FONT + -
It's one of the darkest secrets of the Warren Jeffs polygamist community.
An especially severe form of birth defect is on the rise and may mushroom in coming generations.

"I don't want to describe it in too much detail," said Isaac Wyler, who was related by marriage to some of the victims. "It's not a real pretty sight."

According to experts and former Jeffs followers, the cause of the birth defect is clear: Intermarriage among close relatives is producing children who have two copies of a recessive gene for a debilitating condition called Fumarase Deficiency.

They predict the scale of the problem will increase dramatically in the future. Wyler, who has lived in the polygamist community most of his life, said he expects residents to continue marrying close relatives.

"Around here," Wyler said, "you're pretty much related to everybody."

Fumarase Deficiency is an enzyme irregularity that causes severe mental retardation, epileptic seizures and other cruel effects that leave children nearly helpless and unable to take care of themselves.

Dr. Theodore Tarby has treated many of the children at clinics in Arizona under contracts with the state. All are retarded. "In the severe category of mental retardation," the neurologist said, "which means an IQ down there around 25 or so."


Story continues below
Until a few years ago, scientists knew of only 13 cases of Fumarase Deficiency in the entire world. Tarby said he's now aware of 20 more victims, all within a few blocks of each other on the Utah-Arizona border.
The children live in the polygamist community once known as Short Creek that is now incorporated as the twin towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz. Tarby believes the recessive gene for Fumarase Deficiency was introduced to the community by one of its early polygamist founders.

According to community historian Ben Bistline, most of the community's 8,000 residents are in two major families descended from a handful of founders who settled there in the 1930s to live a polygamist lifestyle.

"Ninety percent of the community is related to one side or the other," Bistline said.

For many years, Bistline was a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), which today reveres fugitive polygamist Warren Jeffs as a prophet.

"They claim to be the chosen people, the chosen few," Bistline said. "And their claim is they marry closely to preserve the royal bloodline, so to speak."

Wyler, who says Jeffs kicked him out of the FLDS group two years ago, has observed some of the "Fumarase children" in their home environment.

"I've seen some children that can talk and communicate a little," Wyler said. "And I've seen others that are totally laid out. They have no movement. They can't do anything by themselves. Literally, if they're 8 years old, it's like taking care of a baby."

Tarby saw the first "Fumarase child" in the community 15 years ago. He said the oldest victim is now about 20 years old. In March 2000, Tarby co-authored an article in the medical journal "Annals of Neurology" describing eight new cases of Fumarase Deficiency in the Southwest. It has now grown to 20 known cases in the polygamist community on the Utah-Arizona border.

Tarby said children suffering from Fumarase Deficiency have unusual facial features and frequent "grand mal" epileptic seizures. The children require constant care from parents and close relatives. "In some ways, they are really kind of remarkable people," Tarby said. "They do treat these kids pretty well."

Wyler agreed that the parents and close relatives are loving caregivers. He said it's partly because they believe it's a calling from God. "They would just assume they've been given a test and they need to pass this test," Wyler said. "And it's their lot in life to take care of a child like this. And they'll give it everything they've got. And they'll do a good job. Very good job."

Tarby said the early founder who brought the recessive gene into the community had numerous children, so copies of the gene were passed on to children and grandchildren. When cousins or other close relatives marry, two copies of the gene can be passed on to a single child, triggering the disease.

In the FLDS community, marriages with cousins and even closer relatives are common, according to Bistline. "There are people that have married their nieces," Bistline said. "People who have married their aunts."

It's all part of the community's religious system, according to Wyler. "Well, around here, of course, when you get married, you're told who to marry and when to get married and things like that. So, that's really not going to change, I don't believe."

"As long as they've got the leadership they've got," Bistline said, "they'll never change."

It's believed that more than half the residents carry the recessive gene. That means the number of cases will likely grow. Tarby said there could be hundreds of victims in coming generations. "No, it wouldn't surprise me," Tarby said. "Wouldn't surprise me."

Wyler hopes FLDS leaders will change their marriage practices. "Now that they know there's a problem," Wyler said, "they need to quit sweeping it under the rug and pretend there's not a problem. And (they should) say, 'OK, now you know when you cross these certain lines together, then this happens.' And they need fresh blood."

Tarby has suggested to community residents that they undergo genetic screening before marriage. They've ignored the suggestion, Tarby said. "I really doubt that if we could tell them, you know, 'This male has the condition and this female has the condition; you shouldn't mate,' that wouldn't stop them."

On one occasion at an Arizona clinic, Tarby explained to one of the fathers the reason he had a Fumarase child. "You and your wife are related," Tarby said he told the man.

The father replied, "Up there we're all related." Tarby said he was not sure if the man meant "up there in Colorado City or up there in heaven."

Tarby said the children are a financial burden on taxpayers, although he's not sure how much. In Arizona, the children frequently receive medical services at state expense, Tarby said. He believes some Fumarase children live on the north side of the border and receive some of their medical care in Utah, presumably at taxpayer expense. Officials in both states say they can't reveal data because of privacy laws.

When asked if he considered the situation wrong, Tarby said, "Wrong? I've given up trying to sort those things out. I don't think they're going to change much."

In the course of investigating the problem, KSL-TV learned the names of some victims and their parents but chose not to reveal them. Through intermediaries, KSL offered parents a chance to speak, but
 

Aside from the deformity issue, which I know nothing about, I think society DOES need to judge a community which is marrying off and forcing children to beget children.

Yes, one of them was either 14 or 16 and her relative/husband was 50. I've got a big problem with that. :mad:
 
If you want to read a good book on the subject get "Under the Banner of Heaven". It gives a lot of insite into the fundamentalist Mormon movement as well as some background on the Mormon church itself.
In the book the author said that some of the midwives reported that they've seen women give birth to nothing but blobs of tissue in Colorado City.
 
I read a great book about that community. It was the story of Carolyn Jessop. I think that was her last name. She told her story of growing up in that community, being married off, having her babies and finally her escape from the community. I think it might have been called Escape. Anyway, her children especially the older ones didn't want to leave with her. They were so brainwashed by the teachings of the community. It was a great book.
 
Maybe they figured it was Ok because they were in international waters
:P

Jenny, is it possible the polygamists on your cruise weren't Mormons, just into that lifestyle?? I'm so curious, as I've only ever heard of two kinds of Mormons: the fundamentalists who dress in pioneer clothes (like the ones in the raid), and the ones like the Osmonds who are very good people. I would imagine neither one of the groups would drink alcohol, since it's a religious reason, not a cultural one. What do you think?

I can't seem to get enough of this news, I'm so sad for those poor girls (and boys).
 
Jenny, is it possible the polygamists on your cruise weren't Mormons, just into that lifestyle?? I'm so curious, as I've only ever heard of two kinds of Mormons: the fundamentalists who dress in pioneer clothes (like the ones in the raid), and the ones like the Osmonds who are very good people. I would imagine neither one of the groups would drink alcohol, since it's a religious reason, not a cultural one. What do you think?

I can't seem to get enough of this news, I'm so sad for those poor girls (and boys).

Oh they definately were..There last names were Stubbs and Holm...If you google those names you will see they are very common FLDS names.. In fact, one of the women, Genevieve Stubbs is named after a nother Genevieve Stubbs who was involved in the SHort Creek Raid in the 50's.
Who they are though is a group living on the "outside" and not in the compounds..WHen Jeffs went to prison FLDS's on the wrong side were kicked out, others chose to leave.. This group, I assume left on their own. The still practice Plural marriage, they have just left the Jeffs ruled groups..
Their nurse/nanny actually told members of our group some details one night... I've actually found pictures of some of our group on the net

If you scroll down this link to the 2 women in the kitched with the babies, Lydia was on our cruise..The family in the picture directly below it also had members on our cruise..I believe ,but am not certain that the baby on the left is the young man with all the genetic problems

http://www.childbrides.org/LAT_photo_gallery.html
 
Not the greatest picture but this is how the women on the cruise were dressed..Well, most were dressed like this

cruise060.jpg
 
Wow!
In between forced marriages and incest, they take cruises!

I would have been dying to talk to them, especially after they had a few drinks!
 
Aside from the deformity issue, which I know nothing about, I think society DOES need to judge a community which is marrying off and forcing children to beget children.

Yeah, I'm pretty willing to be called judgmental for disapproving of a group that practices brainwashing, incest and sexual abuse.

IMO, we have gone too far as a society if we are willing to accept such practices for fear of being called judgmental. Big whoop. There are far worse epithets -- like say, pedophile.
 
I know what I'll be going all evening, reading this blog. I had no idea there were SO MANY fundamental polygamists!

Wait until you read some of them condoning blood atonment..Oh and the posts where they mention that Jewish boys become *men* at 12 so it's OK for 13 YO girls to marry and have babies
 
Did anyone ever consider the fact that we don't know all the details of the FLDS community? I know a lot of people who have left that God forsaken place and they are not deformed and mental. So it's great to see that you got the opportunity to lay your eyes on them but that does not mean that you know the first thing about them. It is a bit hasty to assume that they are mentally deformed because of their gene pull. I think it’s the people who judge them that force them to become such a reclusive community. Maybe we should be the ones that need to re evaluate ourselves before passing judgment.
As long as young girls are involved in these marriages, they can expect more and more judgment from the rest of us.

I couldn't care less if anyone finds it judgmental to totally disagree with a practice that is WELL known for sexual abuse and repression of women, starting when they are young girls.

FLDS who do not distance themselves from polygamy are just as bad as those who are practicing it, IMHO, because they are turning a blind eye to very thin disguise of abuse and allowing the sanctity of religious belief to be tainted by pedophiles.
 
Just FYI, a more thorough article on the topic of fumarase deficiency and the FLDS: http://www.childbrides.org/taxes_PNT_forbidden_fruit.html

The article was originally published in the Phoenix News-Times and is reprinted at that site by permission.

There are actually a large number of businesses run by the FLDS in the Colorado City area, all of which belong to the Church and put money in the Jeffs family coffers. It amazes me that the controlling members are not using artificial insemination to get around this issue. That way the marriages can still be "ordained by God" but the gene pool would be broadened.

BTW, I don't think that anyone is claiming that ALL the members of the FLDS are "deformed and mentally disabled" but the fact remains that in the past 7 years there have been more children with Fumarase difficiency born in this small community than there have been in the rest of the entire developed world since the disease was discovered in 1986. The current estimate is that 50% of the church members carry the gene, and the community has been closed for about 70 years. If they keep interbreeding at their current rate the incidence will climb until they eventually wipe themselves out.

I think that in the end all of these girls/kids will be released back to the compound. There was a raid like this in Utah way back in the 1950's or 60's where the children were taken permanently by the state; it didn't turn out well, and I doubt that they will do it again.
 
So they found a marriage bed INSIDE the Temple so that marriages to underage girls can immediately be consumated.
 
I think that in the end all of these girls/kids will be released back to the compound. There was a raid like this in Utah way back in the 1950's or 60's where the children were taken permanently by the state; it didn't turn out well, and I doubt that they will do it again.

What happened in Utah in the 50s/60s? Educate me please.
 
So they found a marriage bed INSIDE the Temple so that marriages to underage girls can immediately be consumated.

Sick, sick, sick :sad2: ! The news is reporting the 16yo female that made the 911 call is suposedly pg with her 2nd baby. Also, thus far they've discovered over 400 children in this compound, many reportly abused. :guilty:
 














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