Maintenance Dues out of this world

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Year OKW BWV VB VB(sub) HH VWL BCV SSR
2006 4.24 4.69 5.27 4.12 4.34 4.61 4.48 3.98
2005 3.86 4.41 4.87 3.84 4.04 4.35 4.27 3.83
2004 3.68 4.25 4.67 3.67 3.86 4.22 4.18 3.80
2003 3.49 4.11 4.36 3.45 3.70 4.05 3.97
2002 3.22 3.92 4.17 3.33 3.48 3.80 3.77
2001 3.13 3.82 3.97 2.70 3.32 3.63
2000 3.16 3.94 4.08 2.87 3.25 3.62
1999 3.16 4.02 3.99 2.82 3.18
1998 3.17 3.94 2.76 3.20
1997 3.14 3.84 2.90 3.16
1996 2.99 3.70 2.82 3.16
1995 2.84
1994 2.70
1993 2.63
1992 2.56
1991 2.51

Why are there two different amounts for VB?

 

[jade1]

Dues out of this world?

As long as BCV keeps going up $10 a point each year like the last 4 years since we bought, and dues are around $5 each year, I'm not too worried.

 

[Disney Doll]

2 years ago gas was about $1.50 per gallon and no it is about $3.00.

I could walk everywhere but I prefer the comfort of a vehicle.

I feel the same way about my vacations.

YMMV

You are very wise.
And I happen to agree with you.

 

[BTDTGB]

$73,000 / 672 ((14 (2-1 week vacations a year) * 48 (number of SSR years)) = $108.00 per night.

That's cheap.

I used the same formula when looking at the maintenance fee and cost to buy-in. At first I thought I could stay at one of the AS for less than that price, and since we don't spend much time in the room it would be fine. Then I realized that the cost of a room at an AS will go up. I am more than certain that in 20 years a room at an AS will be twice that amount. And lets face it the AS resorts are nice for the price, but they do not come close to upscale resorts in any category other than price.

 

[Budahman]

We were considering buying 230 points at SSR. With 10% down and 5 year financing the total cost before annual dues is $29,440. In 2006 annual dues are $915.58 for SSR. It appears through examination of other DVC properties that the annual dues increase about 4% each year. Over a 48 year period the total cost of the annual dues is $166,248. Consequently, the total cost over 48 years is $195,688. (BTW- in the 48th year we would be paying $6012 in annual dues- yikes!) We figured we would be able to stay about 19 nights per year at studio rooms so that is 912 nights in 48 years. This works out to $214.57/night.

This doesn't seem to be a great deal consdering the following: in the last 10 years value resorts have been increasing on average 1.3%/year. Moderates have been increasing 2.5%/year. I am basing my comparisions on moderate or value resorts b/c we would be staying in a studio at the DVC and in my opinion the DVC studios do not seem THAT much better than a value resort and equal to a moderate room.

We love disney and have been averaging about 19 nights per year but still feel "locked in" to 48 years of uncertain increasing annual dues (they could increase as much as 15% in one year!). Plus when I'm 75 and Hubby is 86, don't really know that we could ever afford $6012/year for annual dues.

Any thoughts?

 

[lisaviolet]

I was just wondering if everyone else has the same concerns I do about maintenance dues...I'm looking to buy into the DVC and the initial price per point is more than OK for me (let's consider 25,000 for 250 as an example) but if I buy into the SSR that means that I will have to pay 48 years of dues...and at $4 a point (and it will continue to increase) that's an additional $48,000..bringing the total to at least $73,000. That is a lot of money for something that I will loose on Jan 31st 2054. What do you all think?

Before we bought the dues were what making us indecisive about buying in. The exchange rate at the time only added to the stress. Then, out of the blue, my sister and my parents mentioned that they had to get their $1600 in for their vacation trailer. "For what?"....thinking it was a one shot deal for something, I asked since they both owned their trailer. "For this summer", they replied. Yep. $1600 for dues. Every year. Any funny thing....it goes up too!!! And the owner could give "Goofy" a run for his money...either him or "Grumpy". To each their own.

I bought DVC not long after that conversation.

 

[JPC]

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1178901

 

[Parkhopper13]

I am a new DVCer and also a Certified Financial Planner with an MBA in Finance. Before purchasing, I did the numbers many times over, made many spreadsheets and asked a few questions on this board so I understood exactly what I was getting into. Although I agree that I love Disney and many seem to feel that you can't put a price on that...you actually can. I wanted to make sure that the cost would be replaced in value over time. I hate getting ripped off.

I want to clear up a few misconceptions.

First, you cannot look at dollars in absolute terms. Stating that your maintanence could be $8000 in 46 years, and that being very scary is misleading. Time-value of money and inflation must be considered. Accomodations at a comparable Disney resort could easily be $20,000 a week in 2052. Average nationwide salaries could be $1,000,000/year, so why is $6,000/year scary.

Second, the maintanence fees for Disney I find to be a little high, but that is because Disney provides very high end service and accomadations. They are not making a profit on maint., so like with anything, you pay for what you get. High cost=better quality....generally. With Disney, this always seems to be true.

I won't bore you with my calcs and spreadsheets, but let me just say that if you plan to go to Disney regularly...even if you don't and just plan on renting out points, I found this to be a very beneficial and even valuable opportunity Disney has offered us, assuming you don't finance the purchase at too high a rate. I for one am glad to be a part of it, both from a financial side, and from the "kid at heart" side.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I teach Economics and ParkHopper13 is right on about the time value of money and inflation.

I'm a little bit nervous about members defaulting on maintenance fees as we approach 2042 and 2054, and the risk of uncertainty 30 and 40 years out from terrorism, expensive/unavailable gasoline, corporate takeovers, and things we haven't thought about yet.

Overall, I know that I'm going to get a lot of enjoyment out of DVC in the near term to at least pay for it, and will just deal with it if anything comes up.

Things come up. That's part of life. You've got to choose. Do you live life to the fullest now and deal with anything that comes up, or do you sit on the sidelines waiting for something to happen?

 

[MissD]

I've said it before.... and I'll say it again....

If I'd known about DVC first, I'd have fewer children and more points..
The maintenance on the points is much lower!

 

[JustSayin]

Hi all! I am a long time lurker, and this board has been so helpful to me I just wanted to share my $.02. Hope this helps someone.

I also did several spreadsheets before making my recent DVC purchase decision.

My idea was to take a worse case scenario look at what DVC costs. I figured all the total cost of the DVC contract including financing and dues (increasing annually). I then divided that by the total number of points received over the life of the contract. It came out to about $11.50 - $12.50 per point. I don't have the spreadsheet in front of me and I used several different rates of increase on the dues so I can’t be more exact.

I realize that this is overly negative because, as has been pointed out, it treats all dollars as today dollars, but as I said I was looking for worse case. There is however a flip side. I also projected out hotel rates. To make a long story short, it doesn’t take too many years before that per point cost gives you very attractive room rates.

Also keep in mind that per point rate can be drastically reduced. You can pay cash (or at least pay off your loan early). You could also sell your contract at some point. I figure that as long as you don’t sell too soon or wait too long you should be able to at least get your money back. Keep in mind that at toward the end of the contracts life, a week at a Disney deluxe could very easily cost as much as the current cost of buying into DVC. If you sell with 10 – 15 years left on your contract you will not only recoup your initial cost, but you will also not have to spend the last 10 – 15 years of the highest dues. Of course, you would also be giving up your time of biggest saving.

I realize that this is not a perfect way of analyzing it, and I also did several other calculations using other methods. I do, however, think that this is a reasonable quick and dirty way of looking at it. Those of you who are more knowledgeable than I can feel free to point out the flaws in my reasoning, but I think this is an a simplified way of looking at the various costs of DVC ownership as long as you understand that it isn’t perfect.

 

[erikthewise]

I'm glad the OP has figured out this aspect of ownership. It's like buying a $200K house with or without realization that the full cost of the 30-year mortgage is $500K. (And then there are real estate taxes ... )

As other posters have pointed out, you should not be adding up yearly costs over 40-50 years and taking the total seriously. It is true that in the long term the cost of annual dues will outweigh the initial purchase. But trying to come up with an accurate analysis over that length of time is futile. (I should know; I tried it too.) The results are very sensitive to imponderables like interest rates and the rate of increase of annual dues.

What you should be asking yourself is "Does this look like it will make sense for us over the next 10-15 years?"

 

[SCDisneyholics]

I haven't read through all of the posts to this topic, so dont' flame me if I repeat something that was already mentioned, but one other factor I looked at was that the cost of accomodations would rise as much or more than the dues (since you would need to factor in not only maintenance, but marketing costs) and the state and county are going to continue to slap on outrageous sales and hotel taxes to your bill going forward. That said, if you're not going to be regularly using it, then it simply doesn't make since. By my numbers, if I failed to take a vacation or bank or rent my points to someone else for 2 or 3 years, then the "break-even" jumps from 7-10 years to something closer to 15-18 years. I have a 3 year old and an infant and we've already planned our visits through 2008. At some point when theyre in high school and no longer want to go, then I'll sell. Whatever amount I recover at that time further offsets the initial costs and makes it an even better deal, at least for my family.

 

[fishermouse]

I never thought that much about dues prices until I started looking at condos. I live in an expensive area of the country, and the maintenance cost of a condo I'm looking at that I would live in full time is only slightly higher than the maintenance cost for my DVC.

But that does not include maid service, water, heat , electric. furnishings, transportation, club fees if you have a pool. Plus all that Wonderful and Disney Magic....
DVC is NOT cheap but it is to most Disney nuts well worth the cost.

 

[fishermouse]

At some point when theyre in high school and no longer want to go, /QUOTE]

Don't count on that happening!!!

 

[Muushka]

I've said it before.... and I'll say it again....

If I'd known about DVC first, I'd have fewer children and more points..
The maintenance on the points is much lower!

 

[mj2vacation]

Can we not apply logic to vacation please?

Let's be real, I can make a case why it makes no sense to take vacation, because the lost work time and lost investment potential will leave you with less money when you assend to the pearly gates....

 

[Parkhopper13]

Can we not apply logic to vacation please?

Let's be real, I can make a case why it makes no sense to take vacation, because the lost work time and lost investment potential will leave you with less money when you assend to the pearly gates....

I really don't think the debate is whether or not it makes sense to vacation and how much to spend....more if DVC is worth it compared to paying out of pocket for similar accomodations.

 

[iluvepcot]

Forgive me if this is not the place to post. I'm new to all of this and this board. My DH, kids and I have been going to WDW once sometimes twice a year. One year we did purchase AP and DDE. We have taken ap discounts etc. We enjoy the TS meals which add a great deal to the expense. We would not consider cooking (don't cook much at home).

The last couple years we have went with Free dining. Disney does not offer this to DVC, is that correct. Our last vacation we spent (or did not spend) almost $2,000 on a 10 day trip. Has anyone looked at these discounts when looking at costs?

I know that is hard to do, since wdw does not always offer discounts. Basically, if we don't get significant discounts, we don't go. We have had no problem planning around discounts so far. The room only discounts seem to be fading and not as significant, but the free dining more then makes up for this for us. Maybe economics will not influence disney to offer discounts on some years. Well that is the years we will simply go elsewhere for vacations. Then come back when they are offered. I think it is safe to say all businesses hit down cycles. And while there is not certain that discounts will always be offered, it is certain that there will be lean years and times where they could be.

Again, sorry if anything above is ignorant of dvc. We are just now looking into it. Have not made any meetings to get more details. Have never rented points and are just now trying to educate ourselves. Maybe will attend a meeting on our next visit.

 

[FayeW]

The maintenance fees is what is killing our desire to purchase DVC as well, but not in the way you might think.

When we visit Orlando, we stay in 2 bdrm condos offsite. We are not willing to stay in lessor accomodations, so no studios or 1 bdrm units for us. We are also not willing to do Sun-Thurs stays exclusively, and split our stay.

So,comparing apples to apples, a 2bdrm for 7 nights at the resort of our choice, and during the season we prefer, will cost us 270 pts per year. Our minimum investment would be $22K, and the maintenace fees would be nearly $1200. per year. For that same $1200 per year, I can rent from an owner at Bonnet Creek, or any of the Marriott timeshares, AND pay for a rental car, without being out the initial investment! All of these will offer 2 beds in the 2nd bdrm, so neither of my children has to sleep on a pull out couch, and I believe most of these locations offer 3 bdrm units as well, should I decide to splurge as the kids get older.

I know we could do DVC cheaper, if we wanted to, but that would involve staying only certain days, having smaller accomodations, splitting stays, banking and borrowing points to go every 2nd or 3rd year, or, all of the above.

It breaks my heart, but I think it is what makes financial sense for us.