Magical ? Not so much.

[bumbershoot]

I remarked to my wife that MK is dirtier. My wife agreed. We saw cigarette butts, discarded food, trash, and empty soda & water bottles all over MK.

So...this sort of thing can be experienced by one family, and another family going to the same places 10 minutes later will see it all cleaned up. They are constantly cleaning things, and it's all up to timing. It can also be up to mood, as to what you see. Goodness knows my family has experienced that!

In addition, the new system also seems to make you need to stay in the park longer than you may want to. We got our 3 each attractions Fast Passed at about 11am. We received times of: 230-330 for Haunted Mansion, 445-530 for Big Thunder, and then 545-630 for Pirates. So, it was a wait of 6 hours and 65 minutes to see Pirates

But your tickets weren't hoppers, so you were there anyway. And if you really wanted to hit Pirates without waiting that long, I bet standby wouldn't have ben that long. Sometimes you have to zig instead of zag. Your FP is crazy? Ignore it. Ride the ride by waiting in the normal line and get a different FP.

You could not upgrade per day for a hopper - it was always all or nothing. And with non-expiring tickets I believe you still had to make any upgrades. within 14 days so that hadn't changed.

Not sure about "always", since we've only been going since 2010, but I'll agree about the tickets since then.

You had a series of things working against you.
First, you had old tickets so you didn't have to log in and purchase them online, where it would have mentioned FP
Second, you didn't stay on site, where they would have sent you things both in the mail and via email that mentioned FP
By not knowing about FP before hand you were are a huge disadvantage.

Absolutely. They managed to miss all of the things that would have helped them. If they made no ADRs then they didn't even go to the website.

So, if I was to take my 5 and 6 year old granddaughters, they should be smart enough to go on the web and choose what attractions they want to visit a couple of weeks in advance ?

They would probably be excited, would want to talk about it and find out what's there, and that would result in you ordering a planning DVD (which would mention it), get a book (which would mention it if you followed the absolute travel-book rule of buying the most recent guidebook), or look on the website (where you would likely eventually find it).

I missed seeing all the kids smiling !

You were already noticing the icky stuff. Having been there done that (look at any of my posts on the Disneyland forum between early August and, oh, November and you'll see that), I would bet that by that point you wouldn't have noticed smiling kids. People often notice the things that match how they are feeling.

You... deliberately did not research a trip that is easily researchable? When you have been to the parks multiple times and know that there are resources available?

That's an interesting choice.

It is indeed an interesting choice.

I managed to do it during the summer, though not intentionally. I thought I had enough base knowledge, I thought I'd been reading the boards enough, and I just never quite planned our trip to DL that we were doing after a week long dance convention.

And it was rotten. IMO. DH and DS say now that it wasn't that bad. But I was there with them, and they sure weren't acting like they loved it. No one was disagreeing with me, no one was saying "hey let's go back and swim!" or anything. So we trudged along hating everything.

It was sad.

Despite having gone to DLR since 2007 and feeling like I do a lot of research...I bought the newest Unofficial Guide recently and have read through it all. Because we have to go back; we signed up for the Star Wars runs and before entering the park in late July we bought APs. Sigh.

I did not expect you Disney folks to agree with me or even be a little sympathetic.

"you Disney folks"? Uh, you bought non-expiring tickets. You're part of the group. And plenty of people have said "yes to this, but that thing probably could be seen a different way", which shows sympathy and also a willingness to help you in the future as well as lurkers on this thread.

non Disneyite

Again, you bought non-expiring tickets. That shows a level of knowledge of Disney that MANY people never had. And you knew how to use them! They got rid of them partially because people would buy them for a 10 days in a row stay, thinking that's how they kept them from expiring after first use (did those people ever state that out loud to a family member, or even in a room alone, to see how silly it sounded?). But not you, you knew how to use them to the BEST advantage. Oh wait; unless you got them loaded with the other options (I suddenly cannot remember the phrasing that means you got waterparks etc) then you used them to the second best advantage.

I normally am a huge planner, but my wife asked me to just "go with the flow" and not overthink this visit.

I am a huge planner. I didn't plan my DL trip. I was miserable. Wanna know why? Because I had wanted to plan it but time slipped and I thought I could do it. Thank goodness it wasn't b/c DH asked me not to; if he had been the cause of my not planning, it wouldn't have been ME that I was angry at.

Some days I am overwhelmed with planning our first time to WDW. I wonder if all the planning is needed or just too much work. Thank you for posting because there are days I say let's just wing it and see what happens. I want our trip to be magical so I will keep reading and planning and when the day come enjoy every moment.

IMO you want to plan, know what to expect, look at maps, really think it all through. And know that *part of a good trip plan* is to know when or IF to say "hey, let's go off the plan for now, is there something else you'd like to do right now?" But because you planned you won't do that the whole time. Or you'll know to get there at rope drop (for the park with EMH if you have EMH, or a park withOUT EMH if you don't have it), have a ball for a few hours, and THEN put the plan away.

Wow just reading through the comments and a lot of people seem hurt over OP's post like he/she punched their mom in the face or something. I love Disney too but some things suck about it. No biggies OP just wanted to share their opinion.

Huh, that's how you read the responses? That's not my take on them. But then I tend to shut down lots of empathy when people pull out the "let's make light of Jim Jones murdering over 900 people including babies and children in Guyana in the '70s" card when they accuse fans of something as "drinking the Kool Aid". And getting it wrong since it wasn't Kool Aid, it was a generic form of it.

so I'm trying for a balance. Last time I over planned, and we ended up either skipping or cancelling a lot of the plans.

Seems like a decent balance. You knew when to put the plans away, right?

The Lights are such a huge draw that Disney, of course, didn't anticipate

You're not being serious, right? Please say yes? Because how could they not anticipate it? OK you're not being serious. I'm telling myself that.

So hopefully an outlier and not indicative of all crowd levels in December?

Eh, our first trip was Late Nov to mid Dec 2010, and every day closer to the 25th it got more and more crowded.

The food prices had increased as well. In my humble opinion, a Diet Coke and hot dog should not cost over $11 bucks anywhere.

Oh do not go to Japan. (you did say "anywhere") Not sure how much that exact meal would be, as we are vegetarian, don't drink soda, and definitely do not drink diet soda, but food is $$$ there. DH bought a bag of 6 satsuma oranges and it was close to $30 US. (not talking at the Disney parks, but actually in a city in Japan)

Food prices have increased, absolutely.

Disneyland food is higher IME. But normal food at restaurants in Long Beach, CA (where we were before our summer trip to Disneyland) made Disneyland feel CHEAP once we got there. Wooboy was Long Beach expensive.

 

[mshanson3121]

Yikes! Who would pay $110 to see the Bruins?

lol. Us. But then again, we're also Kansas City Chiefs fans... so I'm sure our judgement may be questionable to some!

 

[mshanson3121]

So...this sort of thing can be experienced by one family, and another family going to the same places 10 minutes later will see it all cleaned up. They are constantly cleaning things, and it's all up to timing. It can also be up to mood, as to what you see. Goodness knows my family has experienced that!

This is a great, point, too. And there's definitely truth in it. If you're in a bad mood because of something (maybe because of the FP+ experience), then you are going to notice the negatives more. Someone else who is happy and enjoying themselves, is likewise only going to notice all the smiling children.

And plenty of people have said "yes to this, but that thing probably could be seen a different way", which shows sympathy and also a willingness to help you in the future as well as lurkers on this thread.

I agree with the fact that many of the comments in response to his thread, about how the park was clean when they were there etc... were NOT because we're all drinking the Kool Aid or bashing the OP as some have accused, but rather because he (OP) said that he wanted to share his experience so newbies know what to expect. Except that many of us know that what OP's experience was, is NOT what newbies should expect, because we all experienced a clean park, nice CMs etc.... So sure, it can happen, but I would say we can say with fair certainty, that it's not the norm that a newbie should expect. The pricing etc... of course is subjective, but again, as many have pointed out - Disney food is no more expensive than any theme park/concert/sporting event food etc... (and really, why would anyone go to a place like Disney expecting cheap food?). Quality is also in the eye of the beholder. Some don't like the food - we personally ate at 4 in-park restaurants and at one dinner show, and loved every bit of what we ate.


Again, you bought non-expiring tickets. That shows a level of knowledge of Disney that MANY people never had. And you knew how to use them! They got rid of them partially because people would buy them for a 10 days in a row stay, thinking that's how they kept them from expiring after first use (did those people ever state that out loud to a family member, or even in a room alone, to see how silly it sounded?). But not you, you knew how to use them to the BEST advantage. Oh wait; unless you got them loaded with the other options (I suddenly cannot remember the phrasing that means you got waterparks etc) then you used them to the second best advantage.

lol. I was thinking this. He bought 8 day non-expiring tickets, only has three days left now. So, this indicates mathematically that he has spent at least 4 days prior to this in Disney parks, on at least a couple of different occasions, not exactly the definition of a newbie.

 

[mom2rtk]

...NOT because we're all drinking the Kool Aid or bashing the OP as some have accused...

Who accused anyone of drinking Kool Aid?

 

[mshanson3121]

Who accused anyone of drinking Kool Aid?

Well the OP for one, lol.

 

[Kingslayer]

Oh my apologies. You're right. Sorry, on Stubhub, the tickets for a Jan 5t Bruin game start at $78. Capitals vs. Rangers starts at $128. Eagles vs. Giants starts at $147, Justin Bieber for $98. You're right, much, MUCH cheaper than a day at Disney! I can however see a Mets vs Braves spring training game starting at $40 though. So, based on that, yes, that makes my (and the other persons) point that Disney is fairly equal in price to many other events, completely invalid.

Then you must be doing something wrong. Haven't you learned anything from this thread? If things don't go your way it can only be your own fault.

 

[subtchr]

Then you must be doing something wrong. Haven't you learned anything from this thread? If things don't go your way it can only be your own fault.

Now, here I thought this thread has been a reasoned discussion, with no "attacks" on the OP. I don't believe anyone has discounted his perception of his own experiences. Instead, responders have countered with their OWN opinions and experiences, and also let the OP know that he would have had a better experience if he had been more familiar with the current FP system and other aspects of the WDW experience. He even admits that is so (while at the same time expressing disappointment that "research" should be necessary for a vacation).

 

[hiroMYhero]

You're not being serious, right? Please say yes? Because how could they not anticipate it? OK you're not being serious. I'm telling myself that.

There have been a few blog articles addressing how unprepared Disney has been regarding the crowd levels.

They had no parking plans in place other than to have CMs park at Epcot on the weekends. Only last Thursday did they change CM parking restrictions to a daily basis. Prior to that decision, they were rerouting CMs to backstage areas where they were parking on grass areas and walkways - because they couldn't detour them to Epcot because CM busing hadn't been arranged for weekdays.

Star Wars fireworks had been scheduled to begin nightly on January 5th. If Disney has truly anticipated DHS crowd levels and the horrendous busing situation, they wouldn't have moved fireworks to begin nightly on the 18th especially when the Lights Dessert Party area and the Pixar area are firework shells fall-out areas. The areas need to be cleared well before the fireworks begin.

 

[mshanson3121]

Then you must be doing something wrong. Haven't you learned anything from this thread? If things don't go your way it can only be your own fault.

lol. I wish. Unfortunately, those were their prices. But then again, I don't mind paying money for quality experiences.

But... it's true, the prices were still high even on that website. Now at first I'd be tempted to think that high ticket prices really aren't my fault, or because I've done anything wrong. After all, I certainly don't set the prices. But, even that's wrong isn't it? After all, if we all just started boycotting things, especially Disney, they'd be forced to lower the prices right?

But in all seriousness, some of the OPs post, was his own fault. He easily could have researched quickly before going to the park on any changes that have come to pass with the ticket systems, FP etc... especially since he said it's been awhile since his last visit. Once in park and he realized that the FP+ system had changed, he could have very easily taken the initiative and asked a CM for help with the FP+ system, but he chose not to. Garbage and cranky CMs unfortunately, were beyond his control.

 

[Lucius Best]

* At no time did any cast member explain the new FP procedure. Not when they exchanged our paper passes for plastic cards at the ticket window, and not when we had to track down the FP "kiosks" which, by the way, are CM's with iPads - not my definition of a kiosk. I was not given an info "sheet" that explained the new way that the FP's are doled out. I have the park map from my visit, and it does [again in my opinion] a poor job of explaining the FP procedures that have changed since my last visit. An informed guest makes for a happier guest, and, as I have mentioned, I will research the heck out of my next visit.

I can't disagree with most of your observations and opinions from your trip, but had a different experience with using FP+ for the first time. The way I look at it, Disney wants to market FP+ as simple and easy to use. Handing out info sheets would not help maintain that illusion. Every guest getting a tutorial from a CM at the FP+ kiosks would also really slow down the lines.

If you couldn't find a CM to explain the new FP+ procedure, you didn't look hard enough. It sounds like you didn't even find the kiosks? Granted that is not always easy, and the actual kiosk locations do not always align with what's on the maps and online. On our first FP+ trip, when the kiosks were slammed in the afternoon, the CMs were quick, they wanted to help you get your FP+ reservation and get off the kiosk as fast as possible. But earlier in the day, when the kiosks weren't busy, I found the FP+ CMs to be very knowledgeable and helpful. I had very specific questions and was looking for detailed answers, and the CMs were able to answer everything. I probably spent 15 minutes chatting with a group of FP+ CMs on my first day. Of course, later in the day there is no way they could have spent that time with me.

 

[Hudson Hornet]

The sad truth is that once Walt and Roy Disney passed away the magic and family fun became second to dollars and cents. Sure, they have always wanted to make money, but Walt wanted a family to be able to live the fantasy of Disney in Disneyland and even more so in WDW, which is why it is a shame that he never got to see his dream realized, but that's beside the point.

It is obvious that they are trying to squeeze every last drop out of the guests. They keep expanding and refurbishing enough to keep people coming back, but they are all the while nickeling and diming us to death, or at least bankruptcy. I am not saying they don't care about customer satisfaction. They do. However, they care just so you'll spend your money, whereas Walt cared that each guest had a magical experience.

 

[Magpie]

Who accused anyone of drinking Kool Aid?

As a pp said, the OP. But, I also want to add that the "drinking the kool aid" thing really bugs me, and I'm very glad bumbershoot addressed it. We might just as well pick any other horrifying event from (comparatively recent!) history and use that. "Oh, you don't agree with me? Eh, you're just just another mindless IS extremist. Wait? Why are you offended? You know perfectly well it's just a phrase, and it doesn't have anything to do with real terrorist organizations. Sheesh!"

 

[Magpie]

Now, here I thought this thread has been a reasoned discussion, with no "attacks" on the OP. I don't believe anyone has discounted his perception of his own experiences. Instead, responders have countered with their OWN opinions and experiences, and also let the OP know that he would have had a better experience if he had been more familiar with the current FP system and other aspects of the WDW experience. He even admits that is so (while at the same time expressing disappointment that "research" should be necessary for a vacation).

Some people consider countering with a different opinion and experience to be invalidating the OP's opinions and experiences and therefore the same as an attack. Because only one person can ever be right at a time, and if I'm right, then that must mean you're wrong. Perception is FACT. (How dare you say I'm wrong!?)

 

[metzgardesign]

Magical ? Not so much.

OP....I think your post is a prime example of the "frog in a pot o' boiling water" concept (and understandably observed recollections, as they pertain to your experience).

The WDW world has, indeed, changed. Many of the regulars here have grown with those changes on their regular trips. You went after a noticeable absence. Therefore, the changes they have seen and experienced have been incremental, whereas your observations are a bit more jarring in the their scope given the way it "was." Count me as one of those at least partially in your boat....some of the changes suck outright to my family. In that, the resultant treatments of the symptoms are decidedly worse (to us) than some of the offending causes.

 

[casperthegm]

OP; you have some valid points, and yet you could have done to help yourselves make it a more pleasant experience.

I do agree that it seems that Disney is trying to get away with less cast members, who in turn are forced to do more, and then are probably not as cheerful as they might have been in the past. One of the keys that made MK and the other parks magical in the past was the special attention to customer service. You'll still see it from time to time but it's less and less these days. There's a thin line between capitalism and the Disney dream.

On the other hand, you could have helped yourself by planning a bit, particularly with the FP's, as others have mentioned. And there are very helpful sites out there with crowd calendars that will help you make good decisions about which park to visit on a particular day. If you combine advanced FP reservations, crowd calendar planning, and maybe getting there near rope drop I think you'll find that you can really help yourself.

 

[lugnut33]

Then you must be doing something wrong. Haven't you learned anything from this thread? If things don't go your way it can only be your own fault.

Or they are just part of those that feel privileged.

 

[larryz]

Also, how would a one day "spur of the moment" visitor know that you can and should book FP weeks in advance ??
Or is the answer simply that going to Disney without researching the heck out of the visit .... ie: deciding to go because it's a sunny day just a stupid thing to do ?

That would be a $105 lesson in today's reality, as opposed to TV commercial fantasy.

 

[larryz]

Am I the only one who thought the kiosks were for when you had already exhausted your first 3 FP+ experiences? I get that you can use them as legacy FP machines if you choose, but the whole point of FP+ was so that you don't have to hop around to different attractions just to snag a FP, even for a crummy time that you don't want that's way later in the day. I think if the OP had even hopped on MDE the morning of the 1-day trip, he could have snagged some decent FP+ experiences and saved all that leg work for after they had used up their first 3 FP+, thus netting them their desired goal of 8 attractions in 8 hours.

Actually (and I think it's important to remember this key point) the whole point of FP+ is to keep you out of line so you can spend money in the shops and restaurants while redistributing crowds from the paltry selection of E-ticket rides to the less popular (but still manpower intensive) attractions in the parks.

 

[kwdw]

While I agree the OP didn't research their trip and the FP+ system and ticket rules - some of their other points are very valid. I was also there last week. If asked to compare to just 5 years ago at Disney (same week):

1) The parks are NOT as clean. Bathrooms aren't as clean, line queues not as clean, some attractions were dirty or in need of repair (IASW for example), more chewing gum on the ground, etc.
2) Cast members were NOT as helpful or friendly overall. Yes - many were still excellent - but there were more occasions when we ran into a CM that was rude or unhelpful. I think, in general, CMs might have less "personal discretion" than before to help out the customer. A couple of rude CMs during the MVMCP really irritated us, but on the other hand, my housekeeping service in a value resort was excellent this time.
3) Parks ARE more crowded. I think everyone agrees about that. I can't blame Disney about it - they are a business looking for profits - but man, the long stand-by lines and just the difficulty of walking around due to the crowds is annoying. The high crowd levels are making the experience not as magical.
4) The number of strollers and scooters has increased - and this DOES effect traffic flow around the parks.
5) There are NOT enough FP+ kiosks in the parks. We had the opportunity to add on a 4th, 5th, and 6th FP a couple of days due to our planning. It was A LOT of extra walking to do that - but we opted for the extra walking for not standing in long standby lines. You should be able to do this on the app or at least have more kiosks in more places.
6) Food prices for the quality of the food are HIGH, but it does depend upon some on what you order. My $10 hot dog at Casey's for a stale bun and mediocre wiener, long wait, crowded eating area, ridiculously slow ketchup dispenser was an overpriced experience. Being seated at a completely uncomfortable seating arrangement for a character meal at Garden Grill was unacceptable (they did move us - but they shouldn't have seated us such that one person would be sitting on a "crack" between booth benches in the first place). On the other hand, our service and food quality at Sanaa was completely appropriate for the price. Sure - the same meal would have been slightly less at home, but given it is a tourist attraction, a good experience.

We still had a good trip, but I think Disney is losing ground on the overall experience for the sake of profits right now. It stood above the rest of the crowd of similar destinations. Not so much anymore.......

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Some people consider countering with a different opinion and experience to be invalidating the OP's opinions and experiences and therefore the same as an attack. Because only one person can ever be right at a time, and if I'm right, then that must mean you're wrong. Perception is FACT. (How dare you say I'm wrong!?)

I think a bigger issue is attempting to invalidate the person's comments with things like "I never waited for anything" which often translates into we did Tiki Room, Country Bears and Hall of Presidents. One of my other favorites is "You didn't use the system right because it worked great for us" which then means combining things with DAS, extra MB or repeated trips to guest relations. My final favorite though is "your memory is bad things have always been dirty and rides left unrepaired" which is just simply not true.

While I think the OP didn't do a great job communicating things and came off rather brash the actual items they noted are all valid concerns and have been noted by many other people. Not everyone's experience will be the same and just because you think someone could have done something better doesn't make their experience wrong or invalid.