LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Hokie2000]

Regardless of what people say on these boards: such as if you don't like it leave. This thread is a discussion and I have a right to post my opinions just as everyone else does. I find the oft repeated statements:

• If you don't like FP+, don't go to WDW
• People who don't like FP+ don't like change
• People who don't like FP+ are thrill ride junkies and they can no longer repeatedly ride the same attraction
• We suffered with Legacy FP for years and now it's your turn

To be both offensive and demeaning. I'm glad that people love FP+.

But if FP+ was such a great product why would there be so many threads about it? Why are there daily threads asking for FP+ advice? Why is Mesaboy's thread about FP+ the #1 thread of the year? FP+ is what it is. It has allowed me to schedule 3 rides and then stand in longer standby lines throughout the parks. It has sucked the spontaneity out of my trips. But on the bright side, I still have DLR to visit where all things remain possible.

Of course it is a discussion, and you have a right to post your opinions of FP+ as often as you like. Just as others have a right to express the opinion that if changes are too awful/the value is lost/the magic is gone, then maybe WDW is no longer a good vacation option for you.

There is nothing inherently offensive or demeaning in the statements you posted. at the most, they're oversimplified generalizations. Why is it offensive to suggest not going to WDW, when you yourself state you will go to DL instead?

 

[JimmyV]

Because it's change. Same thing when DOS went to Windows, Windows 3 went to Windows XP, XP to 7, and now 7 to 8 or even newer. The changing of what has been done for 10 years is not easy to bear. You had to vastly change how you used a computer. Simple things that seemed so easy before now seem so much harder. However, if you look back 2 or 3 renditions of Windows... you just have to cringe... and think wow... I used to like that. FP+ is more of the same. This is not the first Disney-change to upset lots of guests at the time, and will not be the last. But Disney will continue to evolve, and we'll learn to optimize any system they put forth.

While I agree completely, it is somewhat telling that prior to the implementation of FP+, there were few to any threads here complaining that FP- was awful, didn't work, was failing and needed to be changed. For all the guff that people are heaping on FP-, I don't recall any complaints about how it worked except for those who believed then, (aand still do now) that FP simply shouldn't exist in any form.

 

[MrInfinity]

It wasn't fair with fp legacy? Legacy was uh easier to figure out and use. The biggest complaint about it was you could not come into the park late in the afternoon and still get headliners. All plus did was allow a late comers fast passes they couldn't get before. You feel you should be rewarded for getting on the internet 60 days in advance. Legacy users felt they should be rewarded because they got there first(ie earlier in the day). I like the latter. I think it is fair. Bottom line is when you take all the hype away from plus, Disney was only trying to make as much money as they could off of people. It was never about making things more fair or better for their customers, just squeezing every last cent out of people.

I think you misread my use of the word "fair". I did not say it was fair that Disney took two fast passes you used to get and gave one to someone who got none. I couldn't care less if someone else got none, I'm going to try to get more for myself. I used fair in the sense that if you don't want to plan something or lock in your days, but I am willing to plan ahead and lock in my days, then it is "fair" that I get the reward of my planning. Not that I get my equal to you. I am doing more work, and in return, getting the benefits of my efforts. That is fair. Unless you'd rather that I ~not be able to plan~ because you ~don't want to plan~. ?

 

[wisblue]

You refer to "walking around" and "waiting" under my prior approach. But waiting for what? With a FP for both Soarin' and Test Track, I waited for nothing. It was all "doing". My last trip was with FP+. We got into the TT line without a FP and the wait time said 15 minutes at 9:20. We boarded our vehicle 75 minutes later. I never waited like that before. I absolutely spent more time waiting with FP+.

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I would really like to know if this is a normal occurrence or somehow an aberration. Our experience with posted wait times is that they are , if anything, longer than the actual waits. Of course, the posted waits are less accurate in the first 30-60 minutes because the line is building. It's like measuring the velocity of an accelerating vehicle. But, we have often entered standby lines in that first 30 minutes with posted wait times of 30-40 minutes and been on the ride in 15 minutes or less. I have never waited over an hour for a ride with a posted wait of 15 minutes. The closest I can remember was the first time we rode TT after they added the car design feature. We usually do TT single rider, but that time we wanted to try the design. I don't remember the details, but I think the posted wait time was something like 20 minutes when we entered the line at about 9:20 (after we rode Soarin). We waited about 40 minutes, but while we were in line they made an announcement that there was some weather in the area that might cause the ride to be shut down. From our position in line we don't know if there actually was any shut down for weather or otherwise.

My first reaction when someone says they waited 70 minutes when the posted wait time was 15 would be that there was some kind of breakdown that caused the line to back up. But, if you were there and know that didn't happen, then it may just be that the posted time was wrong and may have been changed shortly after you entered. Not that that would be any consolation to you. I would be interested in hearing from others who have tried to ride TT in the first 30 minutes after opening if they also experienced actual waits of over an hour.

 

[Laketravis]

Comparing WDW to a Microsoft operating system may be a bit prophetic - MS so much fears losing market share that they plan to give away Windows 10 upgrades in an effort to maintain it.


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[wisblue]

While I agree completely, it is somewhat telling that prior to the implementation of FP+, there were few to any threads here complaining that FP- was awful, didn't work, was failing and needed to be changed. For all the guff that people are heaping on FP-, I don't recall any complaints about how it worked except for those who believed then, (aand still do now) that FP simply shouldn't exist in any form.

I think I addressed this yesterday.

The lack of complaints can easily be explained by the fact that people simply dealt with paper FP as it existed instead of complaining about how it worked. I suppose someone could have posted every single day that they hated paper FP because they were stuck with the time that the machine gave them when they would have rather had something later. Or that FPs were all gone when they hopped to a second park later in the day. But, what purpose would that have served? The system was what it was, and we worked with it.

To address a PP, I have never questioned anyone's right to register their opinions. But, I do question why anyone would WANT to make the same complaint over and over day after day when they should know that it isn't going to change anything. That would make me miserable, but if it somehow makes others feel better, there's nothing I can do about it.

ETA- I see by your profile that you have been a member of the Dis since 2008. By then, paper FP had been in place for about 8 years. I wasn't around these boards back then, and I don't know if they were as active then as they are now. But, I suspect that when paper FP was first introduced there was some discussion and difference of opinion about the radical idea of allowing some people to jump the line instead of waiting like everyone had done at amusement and theme parks forever. But, at some point that discussion should die down as people accept and deal with the new system. I would think that one year would be more than enough time for people to move on. I really think that 8 years would be enough. But, some people here seem to be bound and determined to prove me wrong.

 

[Laketravis]

You try and make it sound awful that a company wants to make as much profit as they possible can, when it fact that's what they're supposed to do.

I certainly agree that is Disney's primary objective and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Likewise, I see nothing wrong with a family trying to squeeze every bit of value possible out of their vacation dollars.


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[Cormoran]

Of course it is a discussion, and you have a right to post your opinions of FP+ as often as you like. Just as others have a right to express the opinion that if changes are too awful/the value is lost/the magic is gone, then maybe WDW is no longer a good vacation option for you.

There is nothing inherently offensive or demeaning in the statements you posted. at the most, they're oversimplified generalizations. Why is it offensive to suggest not going to WDW, when you yourself state you will go to DL instead?

It's the dismissal of people's issues with FP+ that find demeaning and offensive.
Let's put it this way: if you had a bad experience at the parks and you shared it on the boards, how would you feel if someone posted in response: If you don't like, it don't go back! Would you find that helpful?

 

[cakebaker]

I certainly agree that is Disney's primary objective and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Likewise, what is wrong with a family trying to squeeze every bit of value possible out of their vacation dollars?


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Not a thing wrong with it at all. One man's value is another's wasted time and money. So my question is, why is it so insulting to some when the suggestion is made that perhaps, with the demands they have that they feel cannot be met, they should consider vacationing elsewhere?

If you want to visit WDW, yet you look at all your options and the choices you're given and it doesn't fit, you probably should consider vacatoning elsewhere. Why is that an insult? Why does that anger anyone? It seems the logical answer to me. It's certainly what I would do.

 

[Laketravis]

Not a thing wrong with it at all. One man's value is another's wasted time and money. So my question is, why is it so insulting to some when the suggestion is made that perhaps, with the demands they have that they feel cannot be met, they should consider vacationing elsewhere?

If you want to visit WDW, yet you look at all your options and the choices you're given and it doesn't fit, you probably should consider vacatoning elsewhere. Why is that an insult? Why does that anger anyone? It seems the logical answer to me. It's certainly what I would do.

I'm not arguing about that, in fact - I took that advice to heart and DID consider vacationing elsewhere. I didn't stomp my feet and whine that I was never going back to WDW because we certainly do want to go back, so we've decided to try a strategy that incorporates "vacationing elsewhere" with "vacationing at WDW" while still providing the "value" we've come to expect from our vacation irregardless of the source.

Yet - and if there is any doubt about this then one simply needs to read the thread - when I did that, I was met with the same insults and indignation because then where we were going to stay or eat was made fun of and some even accused me of a cagey plan to destroy the mouse since our vacation wasn't going to be 100% exclusively WDW, that I was stomping my feet hollering I'll show you, that's it's stupid to drive somewhere else on the same day, etc...etc...etc....

"Oh, we know what you're trying to do because you hate Disney and you're just trying to shove it to the Mouse. You can say whatever you want but we know better".

Wait, what? Huh? That's what someone gets when they follow the advice?

So perhaps you can understand the frustration that even when some of the advice IS followed the most devout of WDW fans still criticize because the adaptation wasn't exactly their own.


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[Lisa loves Pooh]

While I agree completely, it is somewhat telling that prior to the implementation of FP+, there were few to any threads here complaining that FP- was awful, didn't work, was failing and needed to be changed. For all the guff that people are heaping on FP-, I don't recall any complaints about how it worked except for those who believed then, (aand still do now) that FP simply shouldn't exist in any form.

I don't have a link, but there were complaints when it was implemented. Someone included a link to a thread discussing those issues when someone inquired. Obviously several years in, that diminished. I suspect the same of FP+. In fact, it has already diminished from even a year ago.

It's the dismissal of people's issues with FP+ that find demeaning and offensive.
Let's put it this way: if you had a bad experience at the parks and you shared it on the boards, how would you feel if someone posted in response: If you don't like, it don't go back! Would you find that helpful?

About as helpful as references to koolaide drinkers and others can choose to throw their money away. Discussing your experience should not include any reference to others who had the opposite and any implying that they are foolish, blind , or otherwise not as smart as you.

But really, this back and forth can go all day. If your experience can HELP other people in their planning, great. If it helps INSULT others, then it is no longer your experience or even a discussion.

 

[cakebaker]

It's the dismissal of people's issues with FP+ that find demeaning and offensive.
Let's put it this way: if you had a bad experience at the parks and you shared it on the boards, how would you feel if someone posted in response: If you don't like, it don't go back! Would you find that helpful?

If that's all the response you got, you'd have a point. It's only after suggestion after suggestion is made that the option of perhaps choosing something else is made. I honestly don't see any posts that right off the bat that suggestion is made, nor have I ever seen anyone state it like you just did. You can't get insulted and call it being dismissed when it hasn't happened.

 

[wisblue]

It's the dismissal of people's issues with FP+ that find demeaning and offensive.
Let's put it this way: if you had a bad experience at the parks and you shared it on the boards, how would you feel if someone posted in response: If you don't like, it don't go back! Would you find that helpful?

I don't like dismissive comments either.

Do you really think those only flow one way? I've been called a Kool-Aid drinker, someone who thinks Disney can do no wrong, a member of Disney's PR team, and someone who is biased because I use positive words to describe things I like and negative words to describe things I don't like. To me, all of those are designed to dismiss my opinions. Do you think those characterizations are helpful?

 

[cakebaker]

So perhaps you can understand the frustration that even when some of the advice IS followed the most devout of WDW fans still criticize because the adaptation wasn't exactly their own.


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A really dedicated response to your comments would require getting into details of your pre-planning report and this probably isn't the thread for that.

I will say though, most of the posts I see where someone else has decided to go elsewhere, it's done in the spirit of somehow being a threat to Disney, and it's done in the context of yet more complaining about Disney. Because really, once you've decided WDW world isn't for you, why are you posting on a Disney forum anyway?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Comparing WDW to a Microsoft operating system may be a bit prophetic - MS so much fears losing market share that they plan to give away Windows 10 upgrades in an effort to maintain it.


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How about my high definition television and all it's crazy inputs and tivo and this gadget and that gadget just to watch a simple program.

 

[Laketravis]

How about my high definition television and all it's crazy inputs and tivo and this gadget and that gadget just to watch a simple program.

You mean the one you can also still hookup some rabbit ears, turn it on and flip thru local channels just like you have for decades?


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[Laketravis]

I will say though, most of the posts I see where someone else has decided to go elsewhere, it's done in the spirit of somehow being a threat to Disney, and it's done in the context of yet more complaining about Disney...

That may be true, I think I remember seeing a post or two like that myself. But it's no reason to treat all of them that way.


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[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm not arguing about that, in fact - I took that advice to heart and DID consider vacationing elsewhere. I didn't stomp my feet and whine that I was never going back to WDW because we certainly do want to go back, so we've decided to try a strategy that incorporates "vacationing elsewhere" with "vacationing at WDW" while still providing the "value" we've come to expect from our vacation irregardless of the source.

Yet - and if there is any doubt about this then one simply needs to read the thread - when I did that, I was met with the same insults and indignation because then where we were going to stay or eat was made fun of and some even accused me of a cagey plan to destroy the mouse since our vacation wasn't going to be 100% exclusively WDW, that I was stomping my feet hollering I'll show you, that's it's stupid to drive somewhere else on the same day, etc...etc...etc....

"Oh, we know what you're trying to do because you hate Disney and you're just trying to shove it to the Mouse. You can say whatever you want but we know better".

Wait, what? Huh? That's what someone gets when they follow the advice?

So perhaps you can understand the frustration that even when some of the advice IS followed the most devout of WDW fans still criticize because the adaptation wasn't exactly their own.


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For future reference, if you feel someone is arguing or otherwise attacking you, you can report their post. If you choose not to, I don't see the benefit of bringing issues on your pre-trip report over here.

But in general, when you post, you can expect good feedback and bad feedback. If all you want is feedback that endorses your choices, it is best to state so up front. But when you invite feedback, be prepared for all of it. That doesn't excuse rude posts--but when those do occur, you are free to report it, or ignore it. Typically, pre-trip reports and trip reports don't have these problems that I have noticed. But they have their own sections, so perhaps that is why.

 

[Laketravis]

Typically, pre-trip reports and trip reports don't have these problems that I have noticed.

What I'm referring to is a strategy, not simply a pre-trip report. And it is the strategy that some had an issue with.

But yes, the "Report" button is your friend.

It's good to hear that those who suggest focusing on the benefits of FP+ and perhaps incorporating other options - including "elsewhere" - support someone acting on those suggestions and sharing with others various ways in which it can work as part of a park strategy.


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[Cormoran]

But really, this back and forth can go all day. If your experience can HELP other people in their planning, great. If it helps INSULT others, then it is no longer your experience or even a discussion.

How was I insulting you?