LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Then why continue in the "I'm right and you're wrong" vein? Why not just accept the fact that:

• There really are people who do not like the new system;
• Their reasons are valid, to them; and
• Their vacations have been negatively impacted.

Why so many calories burned trying to convince those folks that their entire thought process is wrong?

I am not doing that.

Suggesting acclimation to a new process is not saying you are wrong.

As far as burning calories, I am not sure what you mean by that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Boom! You do understand my point. That is it in a nutshell. Nothing more. Nothing less. And as I just posted in response to LLP, why so much effort expended by some trying to convince people otherwise? There are an awful lot of posts here that try to make the point that if you feel that FP+ is not working for you, then you are simply wrong, or don't know what you are doing. But once one makes the concession that you have just made, there is peace and harmony in the world. And while I am at it, everything I just said works in reverse as well.

I don't want to argue with you, so I won't.

I will say this is a two way conversation.

 

[wisblue]

That was covered under post #1399. We've been through this, and it is odd why you folks have such a hard time accepting the praise that I am willing to heap on FP+. It allows for more advance planning. It allows you to book BBB and not feel like you are behind the curve, line-wise. It allows you to book a character breakfast and not have to worry about missing out on TSMM. It allows you to book your ADRs that are exclusive of your FP times. All good things. Can I get any credit for agreeing on these points? So why is it so hard to understand that there are some people who would trade all of that for the ability to get FPs for TSMM, ToT and RnR all in the same day? You don't want to make that trade. Fine. Others do. You get all the benefits that I set out above. And what you can't get is FPs for the "big two" at Epcot. Are there strategies for further line avoidance? Sure. Remember what I have said, oh...2,000 times now? RD is the antidote to the limitations of FP+. But when other posters are making arguments about how RD is not in the cards for them, then we have to address this point too.

I can only speak for myself, but I DO understand that there are people who would trade all of the benefits of FP+ for the ability to get FPs for those 3 rides in one day. Or get FPs for both Soarin and TT in one day. Or go back to a "clean slate" system in which the whole FP pool is opened up when the park opens.

But, you should understand that there are some people who never set the goal as getting FPs for these things in one day. Our goal was just to experience these things in one day, and we were able to do that very easily with the paper FP system by doing them at rope drop and maybe getting a FP for one of them. We can do the same thing today, and have the other benefits of FP+ as a bonus.

The thing I REALLY find incredible is that the paper FP system has been completely gone for over a year and people are STILL complaining about that. I can tell you that when the paper FP system was around, I didn't spend time complaining about it because it was what it was and we used it and worked with it and around it as we saw fit.

I can tell you that if Disney announces today, next week, or next year that they have decided that FP+ is a complete failure and changes to an electronic version of the paper FP system, I might be a little disappointed, but it wouldn't ruin my day. I can absolutely guarantee that I would not be incessantly posting on message boards for over a year about how much better FP+ was than whatever system Disney decides to put in place. I expect that we would adapt and work with it just as we have with the other systems they have put in place.

I don't demand or expect Disney to put in a system that caters to my desires. I recognize that it is difficult, and probably impossible, for Disney to come up with a system that will satisfy everyone when it is trying to allocate FPs for an attraction with a daily capacity of X when the number of people in the park is 2X (or more) and 80% of them want to experience the attraction. So, I recognize that I either have to adapt to whatever system they come up with or take my business elsewhere because my complaining isn't likely to change anything.

 

[MrInfinity]

• Guest arrives at Epcot at 9:30 and has a FP+ for Soarin' from 9:45-10:45.
• Guest uses FP and by-passes a 75 minute wait.
• Guest goes to Test Track and rides SB with a 90 minute wait.

Alternatively....

• Guest arrives at Epcot at 9:30 and pulls a FP- for Soarin'. The Guest will know the return time because the machine will tell them. But for purposes of this discussion, you and I don't know. Let's assume it is 2:00-3:00 p.m.
• Guest does other stuff for 2 hours
• At 11:30, Guest becomes eligible for another FP and pulls one for Test Track. Again, the Guest will know the return time because the machine will tell them. But for purposes of this discussion, you and I don't know. Let's assume it is 7:00-8:00 p.m.
• Guest goes off and does more stuff, waiting for the 2:00 return time at Soarin'.

Jimmy, I happen to think your "Alternatively" day is terrible. You spend ALL of a day in FW (at least 9:30am-7:00pm), and you ride Soarin once, TT once. It involves being at Soarin at 9:30 and at 2pm, and being at TT at 11:30 and 7pm. That's Soarin - Somewhere else - TT - Somewhere else - Soarin - somewhere else - TT. You don't ride either until 2pm, and your 9:30-2pm time is spent pulling tickets and riding other things, -standby-.

Do you not see the waste? Sure. It takes you 5 min to actually insert your card and get your tickets. But you waste tons of time just going around getting these tickets, then again to ride the rides. With FP+ I would schedule that WAY better, ride Soarin and TT multiple times, plus everything else I want, and be done by noon to move on to FW, w no need to return from WS to FW (20-min walk) to ride TT at 7pm, then return back to the WS. What a waste!

I would have so much less walking, and do more in less time.

I just can't imagine your plan being "pleasant". At 11:30, you've pulled your TT FP. So then you head out to Mexico or China to eat lunch... start walking around the WS, but by the time you get anywhere, it's run back to Soarin (clear across the park) to make your time. Then, you try to get back to the WS again (another long walk) for dinner, and by 7pm you have to come back once again, for TT. It's just... so bad. You have obligations in FW all day long in order to make it happen. I'll have to show you my Epcot day and you can see how well FP+ works there.

 

[cakebaker]

Boom! You do understand my point. That is it in a nutshell. Nothing more. Nothing less. And as I just posted in response to LLP, why so much effort expended by some trying to convince people otherwise? There are an awful lot of posts here that try to make the point that if you feel that FP+ is not working for you, then you are simply wrong, or don't know what you are doing. But once one makes the concession that you have just made, there is peace and harmony in the world. And while I am at it, everything I just said works in reverse as well.

Then honestly, I don't what you worked so hard for. No one has ever said it works for everyone. There are an awful lot of excuses flying around as to why it doesn't work. Some of them are nonsense and absolutely not true. I think the argument comes in when someone who doesn't like it tries to pile on with nonsense like- Disney doesn't care about the guest experience, Disney is nothing but a bunch of heartless bean counters, WDW only cares about how much money they can pull out of your pocket, Disney is going down the tubes and FP+ is leading them into ruin...when really all it is, is they don't like FP+. I've said it a million times- Not liking FP+ does not equate to FP+ being a failure, nor was it created because WDW no longer cares about the guest experience.

The #1 thing FP+ does not allow is for people to collect FP's throughout the day and then re-ride multiple times. If I was a betting person, I'd put all my money on this fact being the single biggest reason for not liking FP+ and that I have no sympathy for or understand at all.

 

[wisblue]

Boom! You do understand my point. That is it in a nutshell. Nothing more. Nothing less. And as I just posted in response to LLP, why so much effort expended by some trying to convince people otherwise? There are an awful lot of posts here that try to make the point that if you feel that FP+ is not working for you, then you are simply wrong, or don't know what you are doing. But once one makes the concession that you have just made, there is peace and harmony in the world. And while I am at it, everything I just said works in reverse as well.

Here's the difference.

This forum is supposed to be about strategies for visiting the WDW parks. Complaining about what you could have done with paper FP does absolutely nothing to advance that cause. But, responding to those complaints with what CAN be done with the current system does. If part of that response also challenges claims about what you could have done with paper FP (like replicate whatever you can do with FP+) so be it.

If someone wants to ride TT or Soarin with short waits, I have tried to describe how that can be done NOW. How it could have been done 2 years ago is not relevant.

 

[Laketravis]

The thing I REALLY find incredible is that the paper FP system has been completely gone for over a year and people are STILL complaining about that....

That little observation could be significant. It is incredible.

I don't demand or expect Disney to put in a system that caters to my desires. ...

And then there are those who, in exchange for thousands of dollars, do demand or expect Disney to have a system that caters to their desires.


.

 

[cakebaker]

"I can tell you that if Disney announces today, next week, or next year that they have decided that FP+ is a complete failure and changes to an electronic version of the paper FP system, I might be a little disappointed, but it wouldn't ruin my day. I can absolutely guarantee that I would not be incessantly posting on message boards for over a year about how much better FP+ was than whatever system Disney decides to put in place. I expect that we would adapt and work with it just as we have with the other systems they have put in place."

Same here- well said!

 

[Laketravis]

Here's the difference. This forum is supposed to be about strategies for visiting the WDW parks.....

Seems I tried that and was accused of wanting to single handedly take down a multi-billion dollar corporation because I dare suggested FP+ allowed for the introduction of a couple of other parks into the mix.

But since you bring it up, yes - I think there are ways to use FP+ to one's advantage and those strategies should be respectfully allowed to be laid out.


.

 

[Laketravis]

..

 

[Loriannf]

Well, I have to say, I read all the advice here before our recent trip to the world, and HATE HATE HATE FP+ so much we probably won't be going back. We were "commando" like disers who worked the old FP system to our benefit. Our kids got to ride, ride, ride the things they wanted and we never had any problem hopping to a second park to ride. This system totally makes that impossible.

I dutifully stayed up to midnight and booked FP+ for everyone in our group 30 days in advance. We arrive at our selected park of the day, MK, and our first two FP rides are down and not expected back up for hours, if at all. So, we can't hop over to EPCOT like we used to if MK was packed, BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET FASTPASSES until much later in the day, and we have to give up our MK fastpasses to get new ones. Even the rides that were open, were breaking down. I can't believe how many rides we were able to get on that simply stopped more than once during the ride. Where is Disney putting all the money they are getting from us? Certainly not to ride maintenance.

Disney is better left to all of you who have no problems handing over your money to a corporation that limits your ability to maximize your visit. It is no longer a value for us when we pay in excess of $80 per person per day and can only ride maybe 6 rides, and then only maybe 2 headliners. I must say, during the same time period, we also visited one of Disney's local competitors and found it quite manageable. We didn't need to buy a "front of the line" either, as we were able to plan and work around the crowds. If you aren't interested in spending all of your time in one specific topical area, you can ride whatever you want with almost no lines.

Again, Disney has ceased to be a destination for our family after this experience. We can, and often do, travel to other locations which are equally enjoyable, and spend much less. In fact, our trips to our favorite Caribbean island cost us much less than Disney, even if it is consider to be one of the most expensive islands in the area.

I know many of you won't agree, and I hope you continue to enjoy Disney. But it no longer works for our family as we like to maximize our experiences and we can't with Disney.

 

[wisblue]

Then honestly, I don't what you worked so hard for. No one has ever said it works for everyone. There are an awful lot of excuses flying around as to why it doesn't work. Some of them are nonsense and absolutely not true. I think the argument comes in when someone who doesn't like it tries to pile on with nonsense like- Disney doesn't care about the guest experience, Disney is nothing but a bunch of heartless bean counters, WDW only cares about how much money they can pull out of your pocket, Disney is going down the tubes and FP+ is leading them into ruin...when really all it is, is they don't like FP+. I've said it a million times- Not liking FP+ does not equate to FP+ being a failure, nor was it created because WDW no longer cares about the guest experience.

The #1 thing FP+ does not allow is for people to collect FP's throughout the day and then re-ride multiple times. If I was a betting person, I'd put all my money on this single fact being the reason for not liking FP+ and that I have no sympathy for or understand at all.

I don't think the multiple rides issue is the single reason, but I do think it is a significant one, and maybe the single biggest one. If your goal is to experience the major attractions in any of the parks once each without long waits, it shouldn't be hard for anyone to do that using their FPs and an efficient touring plan. That plan may require getting to a park early or staying late when the parks are crowded, but that has always been true. And it's also true that the parks are crowded more often than they used to be.

If your goal is to do certain things multiple times, there is no question that FP+ makes that harder.

 

[Laketravis]

I am not doing that.

Suggesting acclimation to a new process is not saying you are wrong.

As far as burning calories, I am not sure what you mean by that.

I think it was a metaphor for all of the time and energy spent on the subject.


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[Laketravis]

Where is Disney putting all the money they are getting from us?

Overseas. Seriously, I'm not kidding or being sarcastic.

Good points on the rest of your post, I think it's clear why it didn't work for you even though you planned accordingly.


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[cakebaker]

I don't think the multiple rides issue is the single reason, but I do think it is a significant one, and maybe the single biggest one.

Oops, that was indeed a typo on my part. Sorry, I meant to say single biggest and in my editing, didn't get that done. I will now. I don't think it's the only reason either. I think it is the biggest one.

Thanks actually for pointing that out, I was definitely not meaning to say that!

 

[cakebaker]

And here's my textbook example of the problem with some people who don't like FP+:

Disney is better left to all of you who have no problems handing over your money to a corporation that limits your ability to maximize your visit.

It isn't just that FP+ doesn't work for you, in your estimation. It's that it works for no one and those of us who continue to go are stupid enough that we'd hand our money over to a place that limits us in our enjoyment.

Do you understand, that there are some of us for whom FP+ enhances our vacation? It makes it better and more enjoyable?
I understand it doesn't work for you, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for me and others. I'm very picky about who gets my money and the minute WDW does not work for me, they won't get any more of it.

 

[Dr Gevil]

I think it was a metaphor for all of the time and energy spent on the subject.


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Paging Drax the Destroyer..........Drax to the courtesy house phone please................

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think it was a metaphor for all of the time and energy spent on the subject.


.

Quite the observation of a thread with over 1400 posts.

 

[Laketravis]

Paging Drax the Destroyer..........Drax to the courtesy house phone please................

Quite the observation of a thread with over 1400 posts.

I really don't understand these two posts. LLP said she wasn't sure what the reference by Jimmy to burning calories meant and I simply commented that I thought it was intended to be a metaphor.

Drax the Destroyer? Quite the observation? I'm sure neither of you are trying to be snarky so I'm puzzled by your comments.


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[Lisa loves Pooh]

I really don't understand these two posts. LLP said she didn't understand the reference to "calories burned" and I simply commented that I thought it was intended to be a metaphor.

Drax the Destroyer? Quite the observation? I'm sure neither of you are trying to be snarky so I'm puzzled by your comments.


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Quite simple.

I understood the reference.

I just didn't understand why the person opted to utilize that metaphor in the manner that they did given they and others have contributed many posts to this thread. There was quite the back and forth before I began participating in the latest exchange.