LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Laketravis]

The last decade has definitely been a change in strategy for Disney World....

Definitely. It has become a test bed of guinea pigs used to develop and subsidize global plans.

Uh oh. Now someone is going to be insulted because they think I referred to everyone at WDW as swine.


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[lauradis]

Charitable endeavor is not what I am speaking about. I think you know it too. The last decade has definitely been a change in strategy for Disney World.

No need to. They have stated that value has dropped at Disney.

So all you derive from universal is paid front of the line access? Really. Not the tireless building of new and exciting attractions almost every year. Let's not forget the front of the line access is free for guests at universal hotels. As far as guests stating they paid x for this and for this. Of course they would. A Disney vacation is about the half the cost of a new car nowadays. Expectations should and will be super high!

Universal was getting really run down before they started their building and over hauls. Plus they are some really awful employees. Dirty,Dirty tables chairs, bathroom etc.

Plus I have never hear a CM tell a guest f off before, or shut f up. which I have witnessed at other parks including universal.

The avg Disney vacation for family of 4 is around 4k. I would love to buy a new car for 8k.

 

[Laketravis]

Universal was getting really run down before they started their building and over hauls. Plus they are some really awful employees. Dirty,Dirty tables chairs, bathroom etc..

Thus the concern when some of us start to notice early signs of the same at WDW.

Plus I have never hear a CM tell a guest f off before, or shut f up...

Luckily I've never heard that either. But I have heard CM's lamenting to each other how they are glad their shift is over in an hour, or how a previous guest reacted when they told them something, or that their assignment today sucked because they were supposed to be on paths but had to clean restrooms........

Early signs.


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[lauradis]

Thus the concern when some of us start to notice early signs of the same at WDW.


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I agree, all we can do is wait and see what Disney does.

Even if they derail more they still have my money for one day ticket to MK, just not 7-10 days every other year, anymore

 

[cakebaker]

A Disney vacation is about the half the cost of a new car nowadays.

Perhaps you vacation in a much higher style than I do, or buy much cheaper cars, but I just bought a car a few months ago- pretty much a middle of the road car price wise ( Camry) and I can tell you I've never come close to paying 1/2 the price of that car on a Disney vacation. Just off the top of my head, the average cost of a new car is probably in the 25k range? I've never come close to spending 12k on a Disney vacation, including the upcoming vacation that involves 2 rooms, deluxe on site resort, 7 days. That includes everything including transportation costs.

No need to. They have stated that value has dropped at Disney.

And despite the fact that they agree with you on the value dropping, they still support the price increase- even think it should go higher.

Charitable endeavor is not what I am speaking about. I think you know it too. The last decade has definitely been a change in strategy for Disney World.

I don't know it actually. You made clear you thought Disney should concern themselves with pricing the lower class out of a vacation. How would you like them to accomplish that other than to just make it free? Poor people are challenged just to provide housing and food for their families. A trip to WDW didn't become impossible for them because of a $5 increase. It has always been impossible.

 

[Laketravis]

My last trip was with FP+. We got into the TT line without a FP and the wait time said 15 minutes at 9:20. We boarded our vehicle 75 minutes later. I never waited like that before. I absolutely spent more time waiting with FP+....

I would really like to know if this is a normal occurrence or somehow an aberration.....

From another thread just this morning:

Hey guys. I'm in Sb line for soarin.

Got in line with a twenty min standby.

They announced about 5 minutes after I was in the line that it had changed to 60 minute standby and now it's like 90 minutes.

I'm currently in line almost around the corner after going through the hallway with the big screens. Roughly 20 minutes in.

Am I screwed?

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[JimmyV]

Yup. As long as FP can be booked for 9:00, people in the SB line are going to see this happen. The only solution is for Disney to post 60 minute wait times immediately at park opening on days when the FPs have been fully distributed in the early hours. But doing so would be bad PR. At least I have learned from experience and won't be duped again.

 

[flicx]

Universal was getting really run down before they started their building and over hauls. Plus they are some really awful employees. Dirty,Dirty tables chairs, bathroom etc.

Plus I have never hear a CM tell a guest f off before, or shut f up. which I have witnessed at other parks including universal.

The avg Disney vacation for family of 4 is around 4k. I would love to buy a new car for 8k.

I routinely see people quoting what they have spent total at 6,000 and higher. I buy 12,000 dollar cars. Irregardless I really start to scrutinize 4,000 dollar and higher expenditures!

 

[flicx]

I don't know it actually. You made clear you thought Disney should concern themselves with pricing the lower class out of a vacation. How would you like them to accomplish that other than to just make it free? Poor people are challenged just to provide housing and food for their families. A trip to WDW didn't become impossible for them because of a $5 increase. It has always been impossible.

Cake you know I am not talking about street people when I am talking about making it more affordable. I am talking people who make 25,000 to 40,000 a year subset. So quit with the Disney has to give things away mindset. Look at how much Disney has increased cost ahead of inflation not only in ticket price but lodging. Your whole theory of a 5 dollar increase doesn't stop folks from going is funny. If you have 4 family members and tickets go up 5 dollars a piece , food goes up, lodging goes up. Year in year out one to two times a year it won't take long to add a substantial amount to a vacation. You know it and yes it does price people out!

 

[cakebaker]

I routinely see people quoting what they have spent total at 6,000 and higher. I buy 12,000 dollar cars. Irregardless I really start to scrutinize 4,000 dollar and higher expenditures!

The comparing the cost of a WDW vacation to the price of a new car probably isn't very effective in quantifying how much a WDW vacation costs. I don't think a lot of people get away with 12k for a new car.

 

[Laketravis]

I routinely see people quoting what they have spent total at 6,000 and higher....

Our trips have been averaging around the $6K mark - for three of us our last trip was roughly $6,300 counting airfare. And while that was rack rate at CSR, it included "free" dining so we paid little out of pocket for food, mainly a couple hundred in tips.

We upgraded to AP's while there so our trip starting this Friday (staying off site for first time ever) will be much less, and another trip in June even less than that.

I refuse to believe we are the only family who has recently taken a look at how much we spend on WDW and decided to make adjustments. Was it because of FP+ ????? Maybe. Maybe not. Let me explain that this way - in business I refer to something called "latent invoicing" - it's a situation in which many companies have been billing their clients the same amount for years and their clients have been paying it without question.

Then, the company changes something. Whether it's the design of the invoice or the envelope it comes in or the amount due changes by enough that it triggers an alert in accounts payable software, it causes the client to notice - and a renewed scrutiny of "what is this for?" develops. Suddenly, an account that has been paying consistently for years is now in jeopardy and asking for justification of the charges or services.

Early signs.


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[Laketravis]

I don't think a lot of people get away with 12k for a new car.

Then it's certainly not because they aren't available, it's because they choose not to.

For instance, here are three that have a 2015 MSRP starting at roughly $12K:

Nissan Versa ($11,990)
Chevy Spark ($12,270)
Mitsubishi Mirage ($12,995)

And that only took a few seconds to find. I'd say the comment that a family who spends $6K on a WDW vacation is spending half the price of a new car is accurate.


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[MrInfinity]

I routinely see people quoting what they have spent total at 6,000 and higher. I buy 12,000 dollar cars. Irregardless I really start to scrutinize 4,000 dollar and higher expenditures!

While surely you can script an expenditure at WDW that is $6,000, and you can find what is nearly the cheapest possible new car at $12,000... it would be wrong to then state that "people" spend half the price of a car on their vacation. I would guess the average spend on a WDW vacation is much lower than $6,000. I guess this because I spend about $6,000, and I have a Deluxe. Since the # of Value rooms dwarfs the # of Deluxe rooms, plus almost all offsite rooms are cheaper, the average spend is going to be considerably less than $6,000. I'd guess the average is between $3,000 and $4,000, most likely in the low-$3,000's.

From Disney marketing: For example: Enjoy a 3-night/2-day stay at select Disney’s All-Star Resorts in standard rooms and theme park tickets for a family of 3—for just $909. Book through March 28 for savings on a kid-sized package most Sunday through Thursday nights April 12, 2015 through May 21, 2015 and May 25, 2015 through May 28, 2015. So clearly they are not advertising a $6,000 spend as the typical expectation.

Then there is car price. Just google "average car price" and you'll come up w a number over $30,000. Around $32,000 seems popular. So if we use real values for averages, then one could more realistically say "a typical guest spends about 10% of the cost of an average car on an average Disney vacation". Not 1/2.

 

[cakebaker]

Cake you know I am not talking about street people when I am talking about making it more affordable. I am talking people who make 25,000 to 40,000 a year subset. So quit with the Disney has to give things away mindset. Look at how much Disney has increased cost ahead of inflation not only in ticket price but lodging. Your whole theory of a 5 dollar increase doesn't stop folks from going is funny. If you have 4 family members and tickets go up 5 dollars a piece , food goes up, lodging goes up. Year in year out one to two times a year it won't take long to add a substantial amount to a vacation. You know it and yes it does price people out!

People have always been priced out of Disney vacations!

Poor people are not "street people". A family of 4 making 25k is very, very close to meeting the federal guidelines for poverty. No, Disney should not be concerned with making a vacation affordable for them. Yes, Disney would have to give it away for them to be able to afford a trip. It's not the price of the ticket keeping them from going. It's the cost of food, transportation, hotel...and Disney can't control that. You don't have to stay on site, you don't have to eat on site. If they could get the tickets for FREE, they couldn't afford the rest of it most likely. The only thing you can hold Disney fully responsible for is the cost of admission and no, even adding up the cost increases over the past few years is enough to price someone out of a trip that could've otherwise afforded it.


There are plenty of things I'd love to have- can't afford them. That's life.

 

[cakebaker]

Then it's certainly not because they aren't available, it's because they choose not to.

For instance, here are three that have a 2015 MSRP starting at roughly $12K:

Nissan Versa ($11,990)
Chevy Spark ($12,270)
Mitsubishi Mirage ($12,995)

And that only took a few seconds to find. I'd say the comment that a family who spends $6K on a WDW vacation is spending half the price of a new car is accurate.


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I looked it up myself and the average price of a new car tops 30k. Can you get a new car for less? Sure- but obviously most people don't. The point of the discussion I was having wasn't how much cars cost, but is it reasonable to say a trip to Disney costs half the price of a new car...well that depends on what car you're talking about and in general isn't a very good way to show how expensive a Disney trip is.

So, when one says a Disney vacation costs half the price of a new car, in an attempt to show that Disney vacations are out of this world expensive, it's not a good marker to use. Because that could be saying a trip costs $6k or $100k and more, depending on the car you buy.

And further, even taking the lowest possible price you can find for a new car ( and those figures don't include the couple of thousand in add ons for buying a new car (taxes, tags, dealership fees), a Disney vacation doesn't have to cost near that figure. We certainly don't spend 6k on average, won't be spending that much this trip either.

If someone is spending 6k on a Disney vacation, it's not because they have to, it's because they choose to. Disney vacations for much less are certainly available.

 

[MrInfinity]

I looked it up myself and the average price of a new car tops 30k.

So, when one says a Disney vacation costs half the price of a new car, in an attempt to show that Disney vacations are out of this world expensive, it's not a good marker to use. Because that could be saying a trip costs $6k or $100k and more, depending on the car you buy.

And further, even taking the lowest possible price you can find for a new car ( and those figures don't include the couple of thousand in add ons for buying a new car (taxes, tags, dealership fees), a Disney vacation doesn't have to cost near that figure. We certainly don't spend 6k on average, won't be spending that much this trip either.

Heh I was just researching and came to the same approx. prices as you. It is typical forum-math to pick the highest Disney spend, compare it to the cheapest possible new car, and then conclude that "Disney expenses are half the cost of a new car". When in reality it's more like 10%. Yes the most expensive Disney spends can be around half the price of the cheapest possible new car, but no conclusion can be drawn from that. And of course, the "total Disney spend" was used, as in after-tax and including food and incidentals, but the sticker price of a car is used before adding tax, lic, doc, which makes even the cheapest listed car $1000 more than stated. And no example of a car costing $12,000 out the door was even provided. 3 cars costing well over $12,000 were shown.

 

[cakebaker]

Thus the concern when some of us start to notice early signs of the same at WDW.



Luckily I've never heard that either. But I have heard CM's lamenting to each other how they are glad their shift is over in an hour, or how a previous guest reacted when they told them something, or that their assignment today sucked because they were supposed to be on paths but had to clean restrooms........

Early signs.


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Which is why, when you see or hear this stuff, you consistently report your concerns to guest services. If everyone who had a legitimate concern would do this, rather than just post on an internet forum, it might curb the issue.

We certainly do. Every...single...time. I've even been told on this forum by some pretty high ranking members that I shouldn't complain when I find them not following what I know are guidelines and rules set by Disney- that I am somehow just being a squeaky wheel. Go figure.

But I do it anyway, and I will continue to do it. My nightmare is that Disney will turn into Universal. I didn't complain at Universal because frankly, I don't care how well they do, I'm never going back anyway. The behavior we saw there by CM's was something I would've literally gasped at had it happened at Disney.

 

[flicx]

People have always been priced out of Disney vacations!

Poor people are not "street people". A family of 4 making 25k is very, very close to meeting the federal guidelines for poverty. No, Disney should not be concerned with making a vacation affordable for them. Yes, Disney would have to give it away for them to be able to afford a trip. It's not the price of the ticket keeping them from going. It's the cost of food, transportation, hotel...and Disney can't control that. You don't have to stay on site, you don't have to eat on site. If they could get the tickets for FREE, they couldn't afford the rest of it most likely. The only thing you can hold Disney fully responsible for is the cost of admission and no, even adding up the cost increases over the past few years is enough to price someone out of a trip that could've otherwise afforded it.


There are plenty of things I'd love to have- can't afford them. That's life.

Your opinion. The increases in food and lodging are real too. To dismiss Disney from them is not realistic at all. So at least we now have a base to start. Families who make less than 25,000 a year shouldn't go to Disney world, or Disney shouldn't be concerned about pricing them out. I live in an area where the average family makes a little over 30,000 a year. So how long til these increases make Disney say we shouldn't be concerned about pricing them out?

 

[cakebaker]

Heh I was just researching and came to the same approx. prices as you. It is typical forum-math to pick the highest Disney spend, compare it to the cheapest possible new car, and then conclude that "Disney expenses are half the cost of a new car". When in reality it's more like 10%. Yes the most expensive Disney spends can be around half the price of the cheapest possible new car, but no conclusion can be drawn from that. And of course, the "total Disney spend" was used, as in after-tax and including food and incidentals, but the sticker price of a car is used before adding tax, lic, doc, which makes even the cheapest listed car $1000 more than stated. And no example of a car costing $12,000 out the door was even provided. 3 cars costing well over $12,000 were shown.

Sounds good doesn't it? It's just when you actually look it up, it's not true.

 

[Laketravis]

Next on Jerry Springer: Low income families insulted for being called poor.


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