LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[cakebaker]

Did you miss the part where I said "just don't care"? People won't care because they are fine with the way things are. They either like what is happening so they don't care about the change or they feel no particular preference.

If you want to feel insulted, go right ahead but don't pick and choose portions of sentences to get in that frame of mind.

No, I didn't miss it, which is why I included it in my quote. I don't feel insulted. I think it's insulting to people who are first time visitors. No worries, LT's comments on them was much worse. "Don't know differently"- what does that mean? That they don't realize it could be better? That they only think it works for them, when it doesn't? Or is more like LT's comments- they're just uneducated. I didn't pick and choose anything. I included the entire sentence. If you think it's better, I can include the entire post:

"And before someone says that Disney is enjoying record breaking crowds, really only time will tell if that means anything. People who are unhappy and leave may very well be replaced by others who either don't know differently or just don't care."


PG

As you can see, I included the complete sentence and I don't see that your first sentence is relevant to the point or changes anything, but there it is- entire post.

 

[Evangelina]

I hated the idea of FP+ but now I love it. Booking the rides in advance is a pain, but at the same time, it's nice to be sure I'll get on certain rides and I also like the way you can change them at any time. And add reservations once you've done all of the rides you originally booked.

 

[Planogirl]

No, I didn't miss it, which is why I included it in my quote. I don't feel insulted. I think it's insulting to people who are first time visitors. No worries, LT's comments on them was much worse. "Don't know differently"- what does that mean? That they don't realize it could be better? That they only think it works for them, when it doesn't? Or is more like LT's comments- they're just uneducated. I didn't pick and choose anything. I included the entire sentence. If you think it's better, I can include the entire post:

"And before someone says that Disney is enjoying record breaking crowds, really only time will tell if that means anything. People who are unhappy and leave may very well be replaced by others who either don't know differently or just don't care."


PG

As you can see, I included the complete sentence and I don't see that your first sentence is relevant to the point or changes anything, but there it is- entire post.

I'm not going to argue with you because that's not my thing. I will only add that there will always be some element of those who don't know better at any venue. People often comment that they can't fairly compare because they haven't experienced anything beyond what is there at a given time. This is true and to them what exists will always be what is, that is until it is changed. It's nothing insulting just a lack of experience.

Now I'm done with this because I seriously have no desire to argue about what I said or what I meant. I'll be glad to discuss the parks though.

 

[Laketravis]

Or is more like LT's comments- they're just uneducated......

Now you're really on a roll - I never said that. How can you keep attributing comments that were never made to me and others? I think I'll just sit back and let you keep working yourself into more and more of a tizzy over things that only you have said.

Now I'm done with this because I seriously have no desire to argue about what I said or what I meant. I'll be glad to discuss the parks though.

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[cakebaker]

I never said that.





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"Yet I don't think there is an unlimited supply of new less-educated or pollyannaish guests to support that attendance growth for years to come."

pollyanaish: "Belittling and often insulting term for being absurdly optimistic and good-hearted, believing in a good world where everything works out for the best all tht time."

You are so right, you didn't say UN educated. You said less-educated, oh and pollyanaish. Not insulting at all, is it. I guess you should get credit for allowing at least those people have some education.

Oh and I'm not working myself into a tizzy, nor do I need your help calming down- both of which are comments meant to demean someone. Next time you want to complain about being insulted, you should look at what you say sometimes and see if maybe you do the exact same thing.

 

[Laketravis]

In the context of the conversation, "less educated" in terms of how FP+ works, not generally illiterate as you want to imply.

I suppose there's a dark side to everything if your intent is to fabricate one, as evidenced by your reference to an urban slang dictionary that allows internet users to submit their own definitions for words and has a totally castrated user version of the word "pollyannaish".

But there are many more conventional and universally accepted definitions for the same word that are a lot more flattering than the one you reference:

"An irrepressibly cheery person; undaunted optimist"

"one who finds cause for gladness in the most difficult situations"

"a person who is constantly or excessively optimistic"

"a person characterized by irrepressible optimism and a tendency to find good in everything"

I'll stand by those definitions as to what I meant my words to imply, not the urban slang dictionary reference that you used.


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[MrInfinity]

"Yet I don't think there is an unlimited supply of new less-educated or pollyannaish guests to support that attendance growth for years to come."

pollyanaish: "Belittling and often insulting term for being absurdly optimistic and good-hearted, believing in a good world where everything works out for the best all tht time."

You are so right, you didn't say UN educated. You said less-educated, oh and pollyanaish. Not insulting at all, is it. I guess you should get credit for allowing at least those people have some education.

I'm trying to figure out for myself if I'm just less educated, or Pollyannaish. Either I don't know FP+ isn't as good as I think, or I don't care that it's not really good because I will be "irrepressibly optimistic" despite the fact that it sucks. Yet, I showed many times over how FP+ works much better than anything Jimmy and others have suggested with FP-.

Oh and BTW the context of "less educated or pollyannaish" definitely lends itself to the belittling definition. Reread the sentence, subbing in other words. "less educated or happy guests"? No. "less educated or optimistic guests" No. It implied that it would take a guest who didn't know FP+ was bad or didn't care that FP+ was bad to replace those who figured it out and stopped going.

 

[cakebaker]

I'll stand by those definitions as to what I meant my words to imply, not the urban slang dictionary reference that you used.


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The choice to own what you say is entirely up to you.

 

[cakebaker]

I'm trying to figure out for myself if I'm just less educated, or Pollyannaish. Either I don't know FP+ isn't as good as I think, or I don't care that it's not really good because I will be "irrepressibly optimistic" despite the fact that it sucks. Yet, I showed many times over how FP+ works much better than anything Jimmy and others have suggested with FP-.

It could be that I'm less educated than others- I'll allow there are people with more education than I have. But I'm afraid those that know me would fall over laughing at a description of me as pollyannaish- which btw, I have never in my life heard anyone, anywhere, EVER use it as a compliment....but that could just be my lack of education. I don't honestly think I don't care if it works or not, I really do- but I may fall firmly in that camp of I'm blinded by pixie dust and only think it works for me, when in reality, it is a complete and utter failure. If true, then ignorance is bliss is my motto.

 

[Luckybee]

The choice to own what you say is entirely up to you.

Oh he owned what he said alright....you just didn't like that he did so without your definition which happens to be a separate one from the most accepted sources. Lol....urban slang...great resource source...now that is funny !

 

[Laketravis]

To summarize what I and other posters were commenting on in terms that the most sensitive among us may not feel insulted by:

For every guest who decides they will not return to WDW because of FP+, some believe there will always be another guest who is less familiar with FP+ or just generally happy to be going to WDW regardless of the outcome to replace them. I don't believe there is an endless supply of that demographic because with ever increasing costs to participate expectations will certainly rise so at some point in time the increased attendance that WDW currently enjoys could begin to wane.

Many of us also believe that increased capacity in the parks could have gone a long way towards addressing the shortcomings that FP+ helps to magnify, but that apparently was not an oversight on the part of Disney because billions of dollars are going into a new park on the other side of the world. It's been suggested that since that money has already been spent we should just deal with the ramifications otherwise it's like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube.

Some of us have also offered personal examples of how FP+ has resulted in increased wait times and reduced opportunities, and others have questioned whether that was an isolated experience or the norm.

Seems this thread and these posts could have been started and made a year ago and it would be hard to tell what time it is.


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[MrInfinity]

For every guest who decides they will not return to WDW because of FP+, some believe there will always be another guest who is less familiar with FP+ or just generally happy to be going to WDW regardless of the outcome to replace them. I don't believe there is an endless supply of that demographic so at some point in time the increased attendance that WDW currently enjoys could begin to wane.

Lake, this is the belittling part. Why not guests that are intelligent, study the available parks, ride mechanisms, and other things and make a smart, well thought out decision to go. See you've only posed two types of people that would want to go. Either, you must not thoroughly understand FP+, or, you must be generally happy enough to be there despite FP+ being inherently bad. This is a flawed argument you make. Everyone knows this. You're not being clever by wording things like this to suggest people who would like WDW with FP+ either don't know better or the outcome isn't important to them.

Clearly there are lots of intelligent people to which a vastly positive and amazing outcome is both possible and actual. The FP+ pros/cons likes/dislikes conversation is typically interesting, and I enjoy it, until it goes here, where it reduces to if you like FP+ you either don't know better or don't care enough to not like it.

 

[cakebaker]

For every guest who decides they will not return to WDW because of FP+, some believe there will always be another guest who is less familiar with FP+ or just generally happy to be going to WDW regardless of the outcome to replace them. I don't believe there is an endless supply of that demographic because with ever increasing costs to participate expectations will certainly rise so at some point in time the increased attendance that WDW currently enjoys could begin to wane.

I absolutely agree that's what you think and whether you choose to see it or not, that is insulting to the people you are speaking of.

What you're saying is- IF they were only familiar with fp+ they'd understand it was bad.

And if they do understand it's bad, well then they're happy at WDW regardless. They don't hold Disney to the same high standard you do. They're willing to let the bad experience slide and go anyway.

Same thing, different way of saying it.

But here's the thing- You can have that opinion of those who go to WDW and it changes nothing- however clueless they are, they will replace guests who stop going. Guests stop going all the time and there are people who replace them.

It always falls back to wait till...wait until they shut down the paper fp machines. Wait until they open it to offsite guests. Wait until the busy season. Wait until the slow season. Wait until the holidays. Wait until after the holidays. Now it's wait till the world runs out of the clueless, just happy to be there folks that are replacing us.

 

[Laketravis]

The original comment was:

And before someone says that Disney is enjoying record breaking crowds, really only time will tell if that means anything. People who are unhappy and leave may very well be replaced by others who either don't know differently or just don't care.

To which I replied:

Very true. Yet I don't think there is an unlimited supply of new less-educated or pollyannaish guests to support that attendance growth for years to come. And with increased costs come increased expectations. The effects don't manifest themselves all at once, but more like a ball of twine that slowly unravels over time.....
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Now, for those who have expressed or feigned indignation over three words and think they know more about what I meant than I do, you can put it to bed that less-educated is in reference to the nuances of FP+ and pollyannaish is a word used to describe people that look on the bright side no matter what.

That's it. No need to introduce any drama over malicious intent or insult. No need for some ridiculous claim that a person who has never used FP+ before would be insulted because it's said they know less about FP+ then a veteran guest. No need for any arm-chair "oh come now, I know what you meant even if you don't think you meant it" or "here's what you should have said because it's what I would have preferred to hear" commentary. There is no need whatsoever to fabricate something out of nothing.

And if you don't think those qualities are beneficial when it comes to paying increasing prices for what many perceive to be less in return, then argue and discuss that point but don't try to turn a thread into some sort of semantic battlefield.

But here's the thing- You can have that opinion of those who go to WDW (inflammatory comment removed) will replace guests who stop going. Guests stop going all the time and there are people who replace them.....

And I'm suggesting that there isn't an unlimited supply of replacement guests.


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[Luckybee]

It's called a red herring !

 

[Laketravis]

It's called a red herring !

You are so much more articulate and efficient with your words than I.


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[Luckybee]

You are so much more articulate and efficient with your words than I.


.

Nah ! Just don't have time for a lot of them right now

 

[cakebaker]

And I'm suggesting that there isn't an unlimited supply of replacement guests.

Change up the format all you want- calling someone a Pollyanna or suggesting that because they like FP+ they must be uniformed is insulting.

But good to know what the next benchmark is to wait for....Until the supply of replacement guests wear out. LOL

 

[wisblue]

Now, for those who have expressed or feigned indignation over three words and think they know more about what I meant than I do, you can put it to bed that less-educated is in reference to the nuances of FP+ and pollyannaish is a word used to describe people that look on the bright side no matter what.

That's it. No need to introduce any drama over malicious intent or insult. No need for some ridiculous claim that a person who has never used FP+ before would be insulted because it's said they know less about FP+ then a veteran guest. No need for any arm-chair "oh come now, I know what you meant even if you don't think you meant it" or "here's what you should have said because it's what I would have preferred to hear" commentary. There is no need whatsoever to fabricate something out of nothing.

And if you don't think those qualities are beneficial when it comes to paying increasing prices for what many perceive to be less in return, then argue and discuss that point but don't try to turn a thread into some sort of semantic battlefield.

And I'm suggesting that there isn't an unlimited supply of replacement guests.

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I think your attempt to provide assurance that you didn't mean to insult anyone with your comments about "less educated" and "pollyannish" people could have been read as repeating the insult, which I'm sure you didn't mean to do. So, let me see if I can clear up what seems to be a misunderstanding.

I don't think you meant to say that someone would have to be "less educated in the nuances of FP+" or someone "who looks on the bright side no matter what" to be a candidate to replace someone as a visitor to WDW. This would mean that anyone who DOES understand the nuances of FP+, or who does not always look on the bright side of everything (for example, someone who looks objectively at things and makes sensible, rational decisions) would not be a candidate to visit. I'm sure you didn't mean that.

I am also sure that you didn't mean to imply that any current regular visitors to WDW who have decided NOT to stop visiting are people who look at the bright side of everything, because that WOULD be insulting, and you have assured us that you would never do that. I'm sure you would agree with me that, depending on their touring style and preferences, it would be perfectly rational for someone to conclude that FP+ actually enhances the value of their WDW vacations. You have been telling us that you fall into that category.

I'm not going to argue that the supply of people who have never visited WDW, and who might be candidates to replace people who have decided not to visit again, is literally unlimited. But, it is extremely large, and certainly large enough to sustain attendance growth.

Please let us know if I have misunderstood what you meant to be saying.

 

[Planogirl]

I certainly wasn't trying to insult anyone. When I said "that don't care" I meant anyone who doesn't care about the loss of legacy or care about the difference between it and legacy or whatever, educated or otherwise. I'm amazed at how much fuss over words pops up in these threads.

By the way, I don't believe that LT mean to insult anyone either.