LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[cakebaker]

Your opinion. The increases in food and lodging are real too. To dismiss Disney from them is not realistic at all. So at least we now have a base to start. Families who make less than 25,000 a year shouldn't go to Disney world, or Disney shouldn't be concerned about pricing them out. I live in an area where the average family makes a little over 30,000 a year. So how long til these increases make Disney say we shouldn't be concerned about pricing them out?

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said what they should do. I said I don't think a family of 4 making 25k a year can afford a WDW vacation. Lodging and food is not something one has to depend on Disney for. You have other options. Or is it you want Disney to also make their food and lodging affordable for those at the poverty line as well? Disney should never be concerned with pricing out people. What they should concern themselves with is pricing at a level the market will bear. Period. Just like every other for profit business in this country does.

 

[Laketravis]

If everyone who had a legitimate concern would do this, rather than just post on an internet forum, it might curb the issue.....

I wouldn't assume they aren't doing both.


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[cakebaker]

Next on Jerry Springer: Low income families insulted for being called poor.


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Rather than make comments just to try and stir the pot, why don't you weigh in on the issue? I'd be really interested in whether or not you think Disney should base their pricing on how much people at the poverty line can afford. And I'm absolutely serious when I say this.

 

[cakebaker]

I wouldn't assume they aren't doing both.


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I don't, but I'd bet a lot of people who experience this, just walk out without ever saying a word.

 

[Laketravis]

Rather than make comments just to try and stir the pot, why don't you weigh in on the issue? I'd be really interested in whether or not you think Disney should base their pricing on how much people at the poverty line can afford. And I'm absolutely serious when I say this.

Because this thread isn't about socioeconomic conditions and the affordability of a WDW vacation for a family living below the poverty level. But I thought you knew that already.


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[MrInfinity]

Your opinion. The increases in food and lodging are real too. To dismiss Disney from them is not realistic at all. So at least we now have a base to start. Families who make less than 25,000 a year shouldn't go to Disney world, or Disney shouldn't be concerned about pricing them out. I live in an area where the average family makes a little over 30,000 a year. So how long til these increases make Disney say we shouldn't be concerned about pricing them out?

What point are you trying to make here... that Disney should be cheaper and go after these guests, or that their pricing is about right, or that it's too expensive? I'm not following. Per the Disney marketing material, a family of 3 can go for $909 for 3 nights. That's pretty... reasonable.

 

[flicx]

A Disney vacation is about the half the cost of a new car nowadays. Expectations should and will be super high!

Excuse me. Should put can be half. I forget not everyone on here buys 12,000 dollar cars. The point that was being made is a Disney vacation is not an expenditure that should yield mediocre or less results. For a lot of families it is a major investment and expectations will be very very high!

 

[Laketravis]

Excuse me. Should put can be half. I forget not everyone on here buys 12,000 dollar cars. The point that was being made is a Disney vacation is not an expenditure that should yield mediocre or less results. For a lot of families it is a major investment and expectations will be very very high!

I think most of us understood your point.


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[cakebaker]

Because this thread isn't about socioeconomic conditions and the affordability of a WDW vacation for a family living below the poverty level. But I thought you knew that already.


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And your Jerry Springer comment was on topic???

That's ok, I understand your not wanting to weigh in. That darn pixie dust....

 

[cakebaker]

I think most of us understood your point.


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Yes, we did.

 

[flicx]

What point are you trying to make here... that Disney should be cheaper and go after these guests, or that their pricing is about right, or that it's too expensive? I'm not following. Per the Disney marketing material, a family of 3 can go for $909 for 3 nights. That's pretty... reasonable.

Please don't play dumb. My point is so simple. Disney has continued to increase price, cut down on what a guest can get done in a day. Slowed attraction construction to a snails pace, and added a system that shows little to no improvement to many guests experiences at a very high cost to the building of future attractions at Disney world.

 

[lauradis]

I looked it up myself and the average price of a new car tops 30k. Can you get a new car for less? Sure- but obviously most people don't. The point of the discussion I was having wasn't how much cars cost, but is it reasonable to say a trip to Disney costs half the price of a new car...well that depends on what car you're talking about and in general isn't a very good way to show how expensive a Disney trip is.

So, when one says a Disney vacation costs half the price of a new car, in an attempt to show that Disney vacations are out of this world expensive, it's not a good marker to use. Because that could be saying a trip costs $6k or $100k and more, depending on the car you buy.

And further, even taking the lowest possible price you can find for a new car ( and those figures don't include the couple of thousand in add ons for buying a new car (taxes, tags, dealership fees), a Disney vacation doesn't have to cost near that figure. We certainly don't spend 6k on average, won't be spending that much this trip either.

If someone is spending 6k on a Disney vacation, it's not because they have to, it's because they choose to. Disney vacations for much less are certainly available.

Our every other year trip runs about 5-6k for a family of 3. The new kia soul sitting in the garage was 19k. so closer to half, not.

But then again our last grown up only trip to New Orleans was about 5-6 k too.

5-6k just seems to be the amount we spend on most of our larger 7-10 day long vacations. Has nothing to do with Disney, More of what we can stomach and afford to do.

 

[cakebaker]

Disney has continued to increase price, cut down on what a guest can get done in a day.

Cut down on what SOME guests can get done....

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Your opinion. The increases in food and lodging are real too. To dismiss Disney from them is not realistic at all. So at least we now have a base to start. Families who make less than 25,000 a year shouldn't go to Disney world, or Disney shouldn't be concerned about pricing them out. I live in an area where the average family makes a little over 30,000 a year. So how long til these increases make Disney say we shouldn't be concerned about pricing them out?

For starters, you are deliberately quoting misleading price points.

For seconds, you are under this false notion that people in poverty or low income are entitled to vacations. They make do like my family did as a kid. We did not go often or at all. And when we did, we stayed at a cheap hotel on 192, ate McD's, shared meals or whatever in the parks. And we didn't necessarily go for a week and when we did, we didn't do parks everyday. Our on site stays were early 1980s at Fort Wilderness (once camping and once in the homes) and then none for many many years. We did have the luxury of a concierge stay at one point, but to was so far from the norm and a one time splurge.


The ticket price is the ONLY thing that cannot be controlled. It is a fixed expense. Everything else is variable.

That is is not opinion. This is fact. You cannot prove otherwise.

So quoting prices with zero indication of what hotel and what you included is deliberately misleading. Especially when on site plus tickets plus food can be found for much less than your $6,000 quote.

 

[Laketravis]

Please don't play dumb. My point is so simple. Disney has continued to increase price, cut down on what a guest can get done in a day. Slowed attraction construction to a snails pace, and added a system that shows little to no improvement to many guests experiences at a very high cost to the building of future attractions at Disney world.

Add to that the funneling of billions in profit halfway around the world in order to repeat the process over again and I'd say you've summed it up nicely.

It's said over and over again that WDW is a business. I agree. That's why I treat parts of the experience like a business transaction, and why I "love" the parts of FP+ that allow me to spend less time and money in the park while enjoying the 3-5 things I like to do the most. Why anyone would have a problem with that is beyond me.


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[Laketravis]

For starters, you are deliberately quoting misleading price points.

For seconds, you are under this false notion that people in poverty or low income are entitled to vacations. They make do like my family did as a kid. We did not go often or at all. And when we did, we stayed at a cheap hotel on 192, ate McD's, shared meals or whatever in the parks. And we didn't necessarily go for a week and when we did, we didn't do parks everyday. Our on site stays were early 1980s at Fort Wilderness (once camping and once in the homes) and then none for many many years. We did have the luxury of a concierge stay at one point, but to was so far from the norm and a one time splurge.


The ticket price is the ONLY thing that cannot be controlled. It is a fixed expense. Everything else is variable.

That is is not opinion. This is fact. You cannot prove otherwise.

So quoting prices with zero indication of what hotel and what you included is deliberately misleading. Especially when on site plus tickets plus food can be found for much less than your $6,000 quote.

Ya'll, there's another park strategy thread that might be more suited for that discussion (Hint: it's got the words More for Less in the title) and I'll start showing how FP+ does exactly that beginning this Friday.

And here's another thread from eight years ago on a related topic that you might like to revive:

http://www.disboards.com/threads/would-you-pay-more-for-less-crowds.1830096/

Now back to our regularly scheduled "I love/I hate FP+" programming..............


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[MrInfinity]

Please don't play dumb. My point is so simple. Disney has continued to increase price...

Huh?? I'm not playing dumb. I'm asking seriously. Do you think Disney prices are unreasonable? $909 for a family of 3 for 3 nights is pretty good. I'm pretty sure we could not go to Universal for that (I ran them - even Cabana Bay came up more), or even to Wisconsin Dells (a low-cost locals water park area in case you're not familiar w the midwest) for the same price.

...cut down on what a guest can get done in a day. Slowed attraction construction to a snails pace...

How so? I get tons done in a day. Did with FP-, still do with FP+. In no way have I felt that Disney cut down on what I could do. As to attraction construction... well... Test Track, SDMT, Ariel, ETWB, Frozen, Star Wars, Avatar, and on and on. You may not like these, but I love them. I find the expansions happening at WDW to be inspiring. I love going. I have yet to ride the SDMT and I cannot get back there soon enough. Six Flags added a roller coaster... a world renowned one at that, which breaks several records. Yet, I still have not gone to Six Flags to ride it, and I'm already planning to go to WDW. Go figure! Clearly Disney is adding the attractions that I want. Even those out here who argue against... Lake is going to WDW on one night just to ride the SDMT.

...and added a system that shows little to no improvement to many guests experiences at a very high cost to the building of future attractions at Disney world.

Here I'd just suggest you differentiate "what is" from "what you think". I happen to think FP+ is an amazing improvement that's led to my (as well as many other guests') experience being much better.

 

[lauradis]

Add to that the funneling of billions in profit halfway around the world in order to repeat the process over again and I'd say you've summed it up nicely.

It's said over and over again that WDW is a business. I agree. That's why I treat parts of the experience like a business transaction, and why I "love" the parts of FP+ that allow me to spend less time and money in the park while enjoying the 3-5 things I like to do the most. Why anyone has a problem with that is beyond me.


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Because for over 10 years you could get around 6-8 fastpasses in a day. More or less randomly, with the exception of tsm, soaring.

The business of production level aka riding as much rides as possible in a day has gone from 6ish to max of 3/4 ish. which is half the price. lol

 

[BugsDaddy]

In order to make a point on an argument, people will try to throw out extremes and try to display them as typical experiences. 12k is not the average price for a new car, it is probably the absolute lowest price you could pay for a new car in th US (fully stripped). 6k is not the average Disneyworld vacation. The most I have ever spent has probably been around 8k and that included airfare, dining plan, park hopper, memory maker and staying at the Poly club level for 2 adults, 1 child.

Families who make between 25 and 40k in total are typically just trying to make ends meet as they continue to improve their financial position. A Disney vacation is just not a consideration.

 

[Laketravis]

Lake is going to WDW on one night just to ride the SDMT..

Get your facts straight. I am not going to WDW on one night "just to ride the SDMT".


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