LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Rebekkap]

What time did you arrive at?

Nearly an hour before park opening.

 

[Disneylover99]

Nearly an hour before park opening.

And you could only get two fp's? Crazy!

 

[Zhaan]

I hate it. Too much planning for a vacation.

 

[JimmyV]

Lots of talk on the DLR forum how FP+ would ever (or could ever) work at DLR. TDR would again have a lot of the same issues. How do you handle the 60 day or 30 day FP+ reservations when such a high percentage of visitors decide to visit on a whim? Would they even be issues if implemented? Would the majority of local guests tolerate it or view it as too big of a hassle and go elsewhere instead?

See? This is what I don't get. FP+ is available at WDW up to 60 days out. But it doesn't have to be used that far out. It is sold to us as a system that works well 7 days out...3 days out...and even "day of" while riding the bus from the resort to the park. Plenty of pro-FP+ posters have told us that it works in this regard. So if FP+ shines all the way up to the moment one gets to the park, why wouldn't Disney implement it at DLR and why wouldn't DLR lovers embrace it just like 90% of WDW lovers (apparently) do? So what if only 5% of DLR guests would take advantage of the 60 day/30 day window. Isn't FP+ supposed to be wonderful even if not used that far in advance?

 

[mom2rtk]

See? This is what I don't get. FP+ is available at WDW up to 60 days out. But it doesn't have to be used that far out. It is sold to us as a system that works well 7 days out...3 days out...and even "day of" while riding the bus from the resort to the park. Plenty of pro-FP+ posters have told us that it works in this regard. So if FP+ shines all the way up to the moment one gets to the park, why wouldn't Disney implement it at DLR and why wouldn't DLR lovers embrace it just like 90% of WDW lovers (apparently) do? So what if only 5% of DLR guests would take advantage of the 60 day/30 day window. Isn't FP+ supposed to be wonderful even if not used that far in advance?

I would lay serious money that RSR would be gone before day of on most days. And that piece alone is likely to make it very unpopular with many.

 

[Robo]

I would lay serious money that RSR would be gone before day of on most days. And that piece alone is likely to make it very unpopular with many.

I'd add World of Color, Indiana Jones Temple, and even Space Mtn.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'd add World of Color, Indiana Jones Temple, and even Space Mtn.

It's sort of like a big game of dominos. If there's one thing people want to book in advance, and they have to book 3, things will start disappearing. Once thing start disappearing, locals will start to book things "just in case".

 

[Cormoran]

It's sort of like a big game of dominos. If there's one thing people want to book in advance, and they have to book 3, things will start disappearing. Once thing start disappearing, locals will start to book things "just in case".

I wonder you could only book FP plus for one park. That would really be a mess

 

[mom2rtk]

I wonder you could only book FP plus for one park. That would really be a mess

I could see them treating it all as one big park. That might be one of the differences they have hinted at.

 

[whiporee]

I think it's all a matter of capacity. There are just more people in the parks than is logistically feasible.

Lines can only move so fast, no matter what the system is. And with a few exceptions, the rides at the park simply weren't designed for the number of people who are at the parks on any given day, or how many are there all the time. To speed up SM, for example, you'd have to change the ride completely -- add another track maybe or double up the seats. But because most Disney rides are self contained, that's not feasible either. Even in a case like 7dmt, they are limited by space. Some pointed out a few weeks ago that it is physically impossible for everyone who goes to Epcot on a day to go to Soarin -- between the time the ride takes, load and deload times, there isn't enough time in a day. The wait times aren't a function of what Disney does, they are a function of how many people they let in the parks.

From 2002 (FP- was introduced in 1999, but I can't find figures from then) to 2012, MK attendance went from 14.1 million people to 17.6 million. That's an increase of nearly 9600 people a day, or 28 percent -- 39,000 a day to 48. If you figure there are a dozen headliners, that's a 800 people more a day per ride, on average 60 more an hour. At 30 seconds a person, that's 30 minutes wait time. Epcot picked up about 2.5 million, with even fewer headliners to spread it around.

And the capacity at the parks is a function of the 28 resorts more than anything else. My last two trips I've been amazed at how crowded the parks are when the parking lots are so empty. Then I researched and fount our there are 24,580 rooms onsite there -- not even including DVC. But the 22 resorts make 300 a night rooms possible, so that's the trade off -- more people can afford to go, so more people go. Which means more people on the rides.

 

[JimmyV]

I would lay serious money that RSR would be gone before day of on most days. And that piece alone is likely to make it very unpopular with many.

I'd add World of Color, Indiana Jones Temple, and even Space Mtn.

So FP+ is a bad thing at DLR because certain popular attractions and experiences would sell out in advance and other guests would be disappointed. OK. Now I am beginning to see why this differs from WDW............Not!

 

[flicx]

So if FP+ shines all the way up to the moment one gets to the park, why wouldn't Disney implement it at DLR and why wouldn't DLR lovers embrace it just like 90% of WDW lovers (apparently) do?

Hmmm, 90% embrace it. Gotta love that Disney propaganda machine! If that were really true Disneyland and all the other Disney parks would have been converted by now. Me thinks 90% is actually around 50% or less, that's why there is the hesitation!

 

[HydroGuy]

See? This is what I don't get. FP+ is available at WDW up to 60 days out. But it doesn't have to be used that far out. It is sold to us as a system that works well 7 days out...3 days out...and even "day of" while riding the bus from the resort to the park. Plenty of pro-FP+ posters have told us that it works in this regard. So if FP+ shines all the way up to the moment one gets to the park, why wouldn't Disney implement it at DLR and why wouldn't DLR lovers embrace it just like 90% of WDW lovers (apparently) do? So what if only 5% of DLR guests would take advantage of the 60 day/30 day window. Isn't FP+ supposed to be wonderful even if not used that far in advance?

I am not really sure how to answer this and I am not terribly interested in being drawn into the pros and cons of FP+ at WDW. FP+ is here and I personally need to figure out to make it work for me as best as possible for my first post-FP+ trip in May.

So without claiming to answer your points, I will venture out with some general comments.

A much larger percentage of guests at DLR make a decision to visit on a whim - as I alluded in my PP. There are about a million AP holders and many live within a relatively easy drive to DLR. Visiting DLR is much more like how most of us decide to go see a movie or (if we live near a beach) go to the beach in summer. We wake up, look at the weather forecast, see if a friend wants to go, and then we just do it. Or don't.

The legacy FP still in use at DLR lends itself to that. And doesn't. For example, lots of AP holders like to drop in a Friday night. Guess what? All good FPs are gone and the lines for the best rides are long. So such AP holders get used to skipping the top rides in such cases. Or use SR lines. Or in some cases just wait it out. FP+ would not impact them for better or worse, really.

But there are some AP holders who plan more diligently to visit next Sunday (or, in some cases, every Sunday). The question is if they can get FP+ passes at all. It really depends on how Disney implemented it. With only three Disney hotels, it is hard to see how all FP+ would be "sold out" far in advance. There are not enough hotel people. So if there were FP+ still available just a few days before a local SoCal person visits - and statistically I see how that could happen - then FP+ could work there.

One of the problems at DLR which may be bigger is where to put the new FP lines. There is no space for that at DLR. DL was built in 1955 for heaven's sake and while it is 25% smaller than MK it has like 30% more rides. DCA has more space as it was built more recently but still the rides and queues were not designed with FP in mind.

And finally, SoCal is SoCal. The stereotype that people there are more relaxed than all the uptight Easterners is true. Make plans for rides at DLR a week or two ahead of time? Dude, chill out... Who wants to do that? Folks there genuinely do want to go with the flow. And not plan things out. And that may be the biggest reason why FP+ could fail there and cause a PR problem bigger than it might at WDW.

In any case, there are many threads on the DLR forum that have discussed this at length.

Cheers!

 

[LizEN]

See? This is what I don't get. FP+ is available at WDW up to 60 days out. But it doesn't have to be used that far out. It is sold to us as a system that works well 7 days out...3 days out...and even "day of" while riding the bus from the resort to the park. Plenty of pro-FP+ posters have told us that it works in this regard. So if FP+ shines all the way up to the moment one gets to the park, why wouldn't Disney implement it at DLR and why wouldn't DLR lovers embrace it just like 90% of WDW lovers (apparently) do? So what if only 5% of DLR guests would take advantage of the 60 day/30 day window. Isn't FP+ supposed to be wonderful even if not used that far in advance?

Disney never intended FP+ to be wonderful (or maybe you just meant promotes it that way, true). It is very simply an incentive to get people to stay at the resorts and I'm sure it is working out great for Disney. Sucks for me though. WDW has been a quick add on to our FL Keys trip just because I love going. That means I'm on a tight budget. I have two days and need to stay off site. FP+ penalizes me for that. 30 days out gave me no shot at getting more than one hot attraction, makes PTP difficult as many rides only had late day FP+ slots available, so I'll never use all my 3 pre orders. If I had the $$ I would never stay off site again, but even the Values are out of my reach now. Not much pixie dust in that. I'd say this will be my last trip, but I'm sure I will need to be there when my grandkids go, so better save up

 

[Cormoran]

Disney never intended FP+ to be wonderful (or maybe you just meant promotes it that way, true). It is very simply an incentive to get people to stay at the resorts and I'm sure it is working out great for Disney. Sucks for me though. WDW has been a quick add on to our FL Keys trip just because I love going. That means I'm on a tight budget. I have two days and need to stay off site. FP+ penalizes me for that. 30 days out gave me no shot at getting more than one hot attraction, makes PTP difficult as many rides only had late day FP+ slots available, so I'll never use all my 3 pre orders. If I had the $$ I would never stay off site again, but even the Values are out of my reach now. Not much pixie dust in that. I'd say this will be my last trip, but I'm sure I will need to be there when my grandkids go, so better save up

IMO being able to book FP's at 60 days out is not enough of an incentive to stay on site. I think FP+ highlighted how stagnant the parks have become. The only park that has enough attractions for FP's is MK. It's really pretty pathetic.

 

[mom2rtk]

IMO being able to book FP's at 60 days out is not enough of an incentive to stay on site. I think FP+ highlighted how stagnant the parks have become. The only park that has enough attractions for FP's is MK. It's really pretty pathetic.

Agreed. I think they intended FP+ to mask over the inadequate attraction capacity in the parks, but all it did was highlight it.

 

[jade1]

Agreed. I think they intended FP+ to mask over the inadequate attraction capacity in the parks, but all it did was highlight it.

The late ("average") arrivers always knew capacity was inadequate-we just now share in the disbursement.

 

[Shaden]

I think it's all a matter of capacity. There are just more people in the parks than is logistically feasible.

Lines can only move so fast, no matter what the system is. And with a few exceptions, the rides at the park simply weren't designed for the number of people who are at the parks on any given day, or how many are there all the time. To speed up SM, for example, you'd have to change the ride completely -- add another track maybe or double up the seats. But because most Disney rides are self contained, that's not feasible either. Even in a case like 7dmt, they are limited by space. Some pointed out a few weeks ago that it is physically impossible for everyone who goes to Epcot on a day to go to Soarin -- between the time the ride takes, load and deload times, there isn't enough time in a day. The wait times aren't a function of what Disney does, they are a function of how many people they let in the parks.

From 2002 (FP- was introduced in 1999, but I can't find figures from then) to 2012, MK attendance went from 14.1 million people to 17.6 million. That's an increase of nearly 9600 people a day, or 28 percent -- 39,000 a day to 48. If you figure there are a dozen headliners, that's a 800 people more a day per ride, on average 60 more an hour. At 30 seconds a person, that's 30 minutes wait time. Epcot picked up about 2.5 million, with even fewer headliners to spread it around.

And the capacity at the parks is a function of the 28 resorts more than anything else. My last two trips I've been amazed at how crowded the parks are when the parking lots are so empty. Then I researched and fount our there are 24,580 rooms onsite there -- not even including DVC. But the 22 resorts make 300 a night rooms possible, so that's the trade off -- more people can afford to go, so more people go. Which means more people on the rides.

Great numbers, well done. Point well made of course.

Of course, this then comes down to questions of WDW's priorities. It becomes pretty clear you are able to get a lot less done per dime spent all else held equal. FP+ didn't improve that, it tried to spread it around. People still see value in a WDW vacation, and that's great. But objectively, when you consider the price increases, the greater number of people in the parks, the minimal increase in capacity and now FP+ making sure what is available is spread more equally, I don't see how anyone could argue that everything else held equal, they are still getting as much out of WDW in terms of attractions as in the past.

Where people's breaking points are, well that is purely personal choice.

 

[jade1]

Great numbers, well done. Point well made of course.

Of course, this then comes down to questions of WDW's priorities. It becomes pretty clear you are able to get a lot less done per dime spent all else held equal. FP+ didn't improve that, it tried to spread it around. People still see value in a WDW vacation, and that's great. But objectively, when you consider the price increases, the greater number of people in the parks, the minimal increase in capacity and now FP+ making sure what is available is spread more equally, I don't see how anyone could argue that everything else held equal, they are still getting as much out of WDW in terms of attractions as in the past.

Where people's breaking points are, well that is purely personal choice.

Spread more equally is exactly why we are getting way MORE done XMAS week than before. As is anybody that arrives later in the day that week-assuming they reserved FP+ like we did. They were long gone in the past, and headliners were 90 to 180 minute waits.

 

[Planogirl]

Disney never intended FP+ to be wonderful (or maybe you just meant promotes it that way, true). It is very simply an incentive to get people to stay at the resorts and I'm sure it is working out great for Disney. Sucks for me though. WDW has been a quick add on to our FL Keys trip just because I love going. That means I'm on a tight budget. I have two days and need to stay off site. FP+ penalizes me for that. 30 days out gave me no shot at getting more than one hot attraction, makes PTP difficult as many rides only had late day FP+ slots available, so I'll never use all my 3 pre orders. If I had the $$ I would never stay off site again, but even the Values are out of my reach now. Not much pixie dust in that. I'd say this will be my last trip, but I'm sure I will need to be there when my grandkids go, so better save up

We are staying offsite and going during early Spring Break. I got what we wanted most at MK but then we don't want A&E or any of the preferred viewing areas. I am a little concerned about the other headliners but we'll see how it goes. I also got what we wanted for AK but you'd expect that.

The problems come when you go to Epcot or DHS. Luckily we're not going near them.