Lots of DVC Questions - Just got back from a 10 Day trip to WDW

[Mr. X]

Hi all,

We recently returned from WDW after a 10 day stay at the Wilderness Lodge. We did a 2 hour tour of the DVC and got a $100 gift card, currently they are still selling Animal Kingdom Lodge, Bay Lake Towers, and Aluani (Hawaii). We were very interested in Bay Lake Towers.

- We looked at 160 points per year @ around $19,000 or so.

- If we were to finance what kind of credit rating do they require, it looks like for a 10 year term our payments could be anywhere between $200 - $300 per month?

- The rep said our maintenance fees would stay low because of the design and type of structure Bay lake Tower was, she also noted that they would most likely be sold out by Spring of 2011.

- We have 2 daughters ages 3 and 6, and love going to WDW, we did the dining plan this time around and it was great, if we had a villa we would have gotten groceries delivered.

- The number of people you have stay in a room or villa does not seem to be enforced. (EX: if you had a studio that was for 5 and you had 2 add'l adults stay with us and kids) seems like there is plenty of room.

Would love some thoughts and input on DVC in general and for those who financed how it worked out as far as numbers go.

Thanks!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Hi all,

...- The rep said our maintenance fees would stay low because of the design and type of structure Bay lake Tower was, she also noted that they would most likely be sold out by Spring of 2011.
...- The number of people you have stay in a room or villa does not seem to be enforced. (EX: if you had a studio that was for 5 and you had 2 add'l adults stay with us and kids) seems like there is plenty of room....!

Both are incorrect. DVC enforces room occupancy. You can't get a studio for five and if the guide told you that you could, they were not being truthful (unless they indicated the fifth person had to be under the age of three). Studios only sleep four.

One bedrooms at BLT sleep five, plus one under the age of three. You cannot get a rollaway or cot from DVC.

While the tower does have a smaller footprint, it appears the furnishings are not wearing that well. Plus right now the dues are being subsidized by the builder (DVD). You are required to use more points to stay in an equivalent sized villa to the other villas. So BLT may take 14 points (at a minimum) for a studio, but OKW only take a minimum of 10 for a much larger room with two queen sized beds.

And you would never be comfortable with four people (especially as your daughters grow up) in a BLT studio. It's the smallest studio of all the DVC villas.

 

[robertdangelo]

If you enjoyed Wilderness Lodge, you can buy a contract on the resale market. The contracts there run until 2042 as opposed to BLT ending in 2060 and AKV in 2057. Keep in mind you can book your Home resort at 11 months and anywhere else at 7 months.
Wilderness Lodge is going for around $70./point on the resale market. I highly recommend The Timeshare Store, sponsor of this board. You can always add on at BLT once you become a member.

Good luck!
Bob

 

[McCrae]

Both are incorrect. DVC enforces room occupancy. You can't get a studio for five and if the guide told you that you could, they were not being truthful (unless they indicated the fifth person had to be under the age of three). Studios only sleep four.

One bedrooms at BLT sleep five, plus one under the age of three. You cannot get a rollaway or cot from DVC.

While the tower does have a smaller footprint, it appears the furnishings are not wearing that well. Plus right now the dues are being subsidized by the builder (DVD). You are required to use more points to stay in an equivalent sized villa to the other villas. So BLT may take 14 points (at a minimum) for a studio, but OKW only take a minimum of 10 for a much larger room with two queen sized beds.

And you would never be comfortable with four people (especially as your daughters grow up) in a BLT studio. It's the smallest studio of all the DVC villas.

IMO it is a very valid point to highlight the difference in points required to stay at BLT and the different resorts.

I do though think that it is highly unlikely that a major increase in dues will occur to replace poor quality furniture at BLT.

Apart from the State control limits on increases, this would be a PR disaster for Disney. Imagine the negative headlines in the Press. "DVC members see big fee increase to replace faulty furniture"... this wont happen.

Where Disney has made a mistake they will cover the costs, just as they are with the current improvements at BLT...Disney made a mistake and they are fixing it.

 

[ToddyLu]

More in line with your question about cost. We purchased 210 AKV points last June at $93 per point. Our financed portion was about $17,000. We financed direct through Disney at 10.75% preferred rate for 10 years. We pay about $237 for our mortgage and $80 for MFs each month. We can also pay it off early with no penalty. We can also make extra payments toward the principle on line. DVC was really the only way we would ever stay in a deluxe villa. Many on the boards, do not recommend fianacing a "luxury" purchase like DVC. But I am of the opinion that it is no one's business and support those folks who choose to finance. Let me know if I can answer any more questions.

 

[Sammie]

Apart from the State control limits on increases, this would be a PR disaster for Disney. Imagine the negative headlines in the Press. "DVC members see big fee increase to replace faulty furniture"... this wont happen.

I don't think anything could have been a bigger PR mess than the way they handled the loss of valet parking and I don't believe that even made the local newspapers. So I'm not sure DVC is real concerned with bad PR.

Where Disney has made a mistake they will cover the costs, just as they are with the current improvements at BLT...Disney made a mistake and they are fixing it.

It is being fixed, but who is paying for it?

 

[hollis]

You may consider renting points instead of buying right now. Seems like a cheaper alternative if you have to go the financing route. You may love WDW right now, but things may change in 10 years. Also, before long, you will likely be able to buy BLT through resale for less. Just a thought.

 

[Corwin]

My family and I love the Wilderness Lodge, but on our last visit we went on the DVC tour and were convinced to buy a BLT contract after receiving some misleading (IMHO) advice from our guide.

(Things like BLT being a much more in-demand resort than VWL, and that people would be lining up to trade reservations with us if we decided we wanted to stay somewhere else. Also, our guide said that VWL was an older resort that was easy to get reservations at the 7-month mark.)

When we got back, I did some basic research and found out that trading reservations was much more difficult than our guide said it was. Also, I learned that VWL, being such a small resort, can be very difficult to get reservations at.

We were also told that BLT would be sold out within six months. That was last February.

Anyway, we canceled our BLT purchase during the 10-day rescission period, and later bought a VWL contract on the resale market. Not only did we get exactly what we wanted all along, but we saved a considerable amount of money buying resale, so much so that we were able to pay for the purchase in cash instead of financing the whole thing through Disney.

YMMV, but that was our experience.

Also, as others have stated, you're not allowed to put six people in a studio or 1-bedroom, nor would you want to!

 

[dizkidz2]

Last weekend we purchased in to BLT after taking a walk thru tour of a studio & 1 bedroom villa.
We purchased 160pts put down what they required, rolled in our yearly dues (or whatever there called) & our monthy payment with be around $250.

We are a family of 4. Myself, DH, DS19 & DD22 & a studio would be comfortable enough for us.
We got 160 pts on signing & our use yrs is march, if we don't use them & bank them, come next march we will have 320 pts which will give us a nice 1 bedroom when we decide to go.

 

[high meadows]

For the credit score and total cost, call your guide and make her pencil it out. We bought our 600 points from DVC (dumb, I know) and they paid for themselves in five years. So now our costs are just the maintenance fees (which go on a Disney Visa so we get 1% back) We have occasionally have had more people in the rooms than we planned on because our cousins, kids" girlfriends, sisters -- show up! Our experience is that it has not been a problem, at least for a couple of days inthe middle of our trip.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Last weekend we purchased in to BLT after taking a walk thru tour of a studio & 1 bedroom villa.
We purchased 160pts put down what they required, rolled in our yearly dues (or whatever there called) & our monthy payment with be around $250.

We are a family of 4. Myself, DH, DS19 & DD22 & a studio would be comfortable enough for us.
We got 160 pts on signing & our use yrs is march, if we don't use them & bank them, come next march we will have 320 pts which will give us a nice 1 bedroom when we decide to go.

A studio at OKW might be okay for your family of four, but a BLT studio is way too small for three adults and one small child. You may want to rethink your plan.

 

[JimMIA]

The first suggestion I would make to anyone with enough common sense to do the kind of research you're doing is to understand that there is a very active resale marketplace that can safe you a LOT of money. In a resale purchase, you are buying DVC from an existing owner through a licensed real estate broker (just like you would buy a house) in one of the cleanest, most tightly-regulated real estate markets in the country.

For comparison -- depending on what you want to purchase, you can 160 points at a WDW DVC resort for LESS THAN $10,000 (+/- $60 per point). If you really want BLT, you can buy 160 points there for about $5,000 LESS (+/-$90 pp) than what you are planning to pay buying direct.

Unscrupulous DVC timeshare salesman weasel-speak to the contrary, there is absolutely no difference between resale and direct once you are a member (we have two contracts, one bought resale and one bought direct).

If I were buying DVC now, I would not even consider purchasing direct. I simply can't make an intellectually-honest argument for buying direct from Disney. If I absolutely HAD TO HAVE a resort that was not available on the resale market, I'd rent for a couple of years and buy resale when it became available.

 

[ercrbc]

I learned early on in my DVC research that renting points or buying resale is fiscally the smarter option over buying direct from disney.

Rental points go for $10-13/pt. You could rent 360pts for a vacation using the $3600 a year you would spend financing 200 pts from Disney.

If you don't want to rent forever, spend half that on points for your yearly vacation and save the other half for a resale. Better than spending the extra $ on finance fees.

Do some research here on the DIS before making your decision. This board is full of FANTASTIC information. Good luck

 

[cayman01]

I am not a fan of financing or buying direct from Disney. That being said if you feel you do have to finance the Disney option is not a bad way to go. You can make extra payments and pay it off at any time with no penalty. The incentives AT THIS TIME make it very comparable to BLT resale in cost.
If you get 200 points you get $8 off per point plus an extra 200 points.

However, is that the place you want to STAY at. You mentioned VWL. It's very small. At 11 months you can get what you want there, not so much at 7 months, especially during Christmas season.

Buy where you want to stay. people talk about cheap SSR points via resale.
That's nice, but after staying there once I really don't want to stay there again. It's okay, but I liked AKV, BCV and VWL much more.

Oh, and a surprising fact. Over the life of the contract BLT points are just as cheap (direct) if not cheaper ( by resale) than SSR. The difference in initial cost is offset by MF's over the life of the contract.

 

[JimMIA]

I am not a fan of financing or buying direct from Disney. That being said if you feel you do have to finance the Disney option is not a bad way to go. You can make extra payments and pay it off at any time with no penalty. The incentives AT THIS TIME make it very comparable to BLT resale in cost.
If you get 200 points you get $8 off per point plus an extra 200 points.

I believe the BEST current price for BLT is $110 per point, and that's ONLY if you buy 200 points. If you buy 160, it's a little more. BLT resale is listing for around $100, but is actually selling in the low 90's -- that's at least $18 per point LESS resale, and there is no kind of verbal gymnastics that makes that even with $110-$120 per point.

Also, what are you referring to with the "free" 200 points? If you are talking about purchasing a December Use Year, you are not getting a thing free. All you are getting are the points you are buying. Dec is still in its 2009 UY, and you are getting the 2009 points. The DVC timeshare salesman is just trying to make you think you're getting something for nothing. You're not.

Oh, and a surprising fact. Over the life of the contract BLT points are just as cheap (direct) if not cheaper ( by resale) than SSR. The difference in initial cost is offset by MF's over the life of the contract

I'd love to see some actual math on that one.

A prudent timeshare purchaser had better be skeptical of sales spiels, and you'd especially better do your own math. Before you do the math, however, you have to check the validity of the assumptions. If you let me set the assumptions, I can even prove that you'll save money with DDP!

First of all, to have any chance of BLT being less expensive than SSR you would have to assume that the purchaser would hold that contract until expiration. VERY few of us will actually do that, and most of us probably won't hold DVC more than about 10-15 years.

Second, you have to assume that the subsidized BLT dues will always remain low. That is a very shaky assumption, and you know what happens when we ASSume!

Initially, timeshare MFs are always low to attract buyers because they are subsidized by the developer. However, IF BLT ever sells out (they're only 60% or so sold out now, despite their claims) the dues are likely to be somewhat higher...probably higher than SSR or OKW, based on the fact that all of the other hotel-connected resorts' MF's are somewhat higher than OKW and SSR after they have been open for five years or so.

 

[McCrae]

I'd love to see some actual math.

Here you go.

Resale price SSR 60
Number of years left 44
Current dues 4.46

60/44 = 1.36

Annual cost per point 1.36 + 4.46= 5.82

Resale price BLT 96
number of years left 50
current dues 3.78

96/50=1.92

annual cost per point 1.92 + 3.78= 5.70

using the above assumptions it is cheaper to buy BLT than SSR.

what happens if you sell before the contract ends? People often forget to consider that if you sell early you will get money back for membership.
In theory the annual decline in value of membership should be higher at SSR than BLT because SSR has a shorter contract.

 

[westcoastsunshine]

HI,

I have 300 points at VWL which I bought
approx. 8 years ago. The life of the
contract is 40 years and can be handed
down to your children.
What really surprised me were the yearly
fees which always seem to be approx.
$ 1,600/year. This is usually due in
February. If you do not pay these
dues, Disney can put a lien on your
timeshare.
Please don't forget about these costs
because they are fairly steep for most
families.

S.

 

[Elise79]

Last weekend we purchased in to BLT after taking a walk thru tour of a studio & 1 bedroom villa.
We purchased 160pts put down what they required, rolled in our yearly dues (or whatever there called) & our monthy payment with be around $250.

We are a family of 4. Myself, DH, DS19 & DD22 & a studio would be comfortable enough for us.
We got 160 pts on signing & our use yrs is march, if we don't use them & bank them, come next march we will have 320 pts which will give us a nice 1 bedroom when we decide to go.

A studio at OKW might be okay for your family of four, but a BLT studio is way too small for three adults and one small child. You may want to rethink your plan.

I agree with Deb - before buying DVC we stayed at CSR so didn't think the small size of the BLT studio would be a problem however after one 9 night stay we have added on as it was too small. I think the issue for us was the lack of useable space by having an entry door then the balcony doors.

We stayed it waste, DH & DD in a pack'n'play. I can't imagine what it would have been like if we had to use the other bed!

 

[JimMIA]

Here you go.

Resale price SSR 60
Number of years left 44
Current dues 4.46

60/44 = 1.36

Annual cost per point 1.36 + 4.46= 5.82

Resale price BLT 96
number of years left 50
current dues 3.78

96/50=1.92

annual cost per point 1.92 + 3.78= 5.70

using the above assumptions it is cheaper to buy BLT than SSR.

what happens if you sell before the contract ends? People often forget to consider that if you sell early you will get money back for membership.
In theory the annual decline in value of membership should be higher at SSR than BLT because SSR has a shorter contract.

As I said above, it all depends on the assumptions you make. I can structure the assumptions to prove anything I want.

And you made precisely the assumptions I do not think are valid...but different opinions are what makes a marketplace.

 

[McCrae]

The assumptions I used where based on resale prices quoted and actual dues paid.

if you used DVC prices BLT looks even better.

Difficult to think of a better set of assumptions that can be made using data available.

If you want to make alternative assumption you can use the formula with your own numbers.