Losing cusstomers

[kittyab]

It has become pretty clear to me that Disney has really become less and less interested in repeat customers and is really focused on the new, once in a lifetime customer. Disney seems to feel that there's not enough bang in the repeat customers buck. They don't want customers who want "discounts" or who want to do things on any kind of budget; they seem to almost be trying to weed those customers out, as they only really want to deal with those customers who are going all out, staying at the more expensive resorts, spending the most money etc. That is at least the perspective I, and many others that I've talked to, on the situation. It stinks for us personally, but obviously Disney thinks it's working for them. I do think there will come a time that they may regret it, but I think that will be quite a while from now.

I wouldn't say they don't want repeat customers. If that was the case they would not sell Vacation Club to people like me, who is going back in the fall for the Halloween party and the food wine festival. Can't wait!

 

[goofy4tink]

I'll join you in the "I miss the Adventurer's Club" krewe.

Yes, it's a business. But Disney's business used to be providing family entertainment. Now, it appears, they see their core mission as making money for stockholders.

So when a company does that, they split all their divisions up into "business units," and evaluate each BU as either a revenue center (makes money) or a cost center (provides common services). Cost centers quickly are cut away because they drag down the company's profits. Those that can be eliminated outright go away. Those that provide essential services are often outsourced to drop headcount from the company rolls and reduce immediate and long-term personnel costs. This improves profitability, which in turn increases executive bonuses tied to profitability.

What suffers is customer service and the overall guest experience, which, as WDW, relied heavily on lots of CMs providing common services -- housekeeping, transportation, maintenance, ride operations and the like. While AC was likely reviewed as a revenue center (they sold drinks, and as you surmised, probably at a loss), WDW failed to recognize that it was actually an attraction in its own right. That was the original idea of Pleasure Island -- an "adult" attraction area, hence the entry charge. But somewhere along the way WDW lost track of that concept and Pleasure Island was forced to stand -- or fail -- as a profit center.

I tend to agree. I think the biggest problem is that they grew sooooo big. So many BUs within the one company. And yes, Customer Service has suffered. But, I'm still finding that I'm getting good CM interactions. What I hate is the lack of unique product. Used to be that each resort had it's own special 'stuff'...they seem to be going back to that a bit though. And I used to be able to get very park specific stuff in the shops. Not so much anymore....there's an overall sameness to it all. There's just nothing that I feel the need to buy...at least not very often!!!

I miss the old PI. It was a nice place to hang out that was more 'adult'. Now, there is nothing like that, on Disney property! At the end of PI, there were families with little ones out at midnight, oneish. As soon as they stopped charging admission, it all went downhill. But, Disney is all about 'the family'. So, we adults head to resorts lounges. But, there is a sameness to them as well...no lounge specific drinks. The drinks are the same everywhere!!!

So, yes, I miss the way things 'used to be', but I can find things I like now. Those that are just starting out on their WDW trips have nothing else to compare things to. So, those of us that have been doing this for years, see a ton of changes, some not so good, and we are accused of being anti-Disney! We all know that things change...they have to. But, seriously.....I can't, for the life of me, figure out how Disney sees some of the changes as 'good'.

 

[Bullseye]

As far as the “bad guy” goes, I’ve been reading many more posts trying to demean and quiet people who either haven’t used FP+ but don’t like the concept of FP+ or have used FP+ and don’t like it in practice. Either way, the complaints are valid and the negative reviews are extremely useful for some of us planning trips. Each person’s viewpoint matters though. Looking through the lens of Disboard camaraderie, I would hope that fellow posters would try to be a little more encouraging (yes in the Disney spirit); as opposed to the “good riddance” or “more for me” sentiment we’re seeing in this thread and others.

I can’t speak to the cleanliness of the bathrooms or the CM attitudes of late; however, I am extremely frustrated with the new FP+ system. I also don’t think that in order for my viewpoint to count that I have to have used FP+. I already know that I don’t like the idea of pre-scheduling ride appointments in advance of our trip. Just the word “schedule” is a turn-off. I also don’t like reading that secondary attraction wait times have been increased due to FP+.

Additionally, venting/ complaining about WDW here on the Dis or to Disney directly does not equate to hating WDW or never wanting to return. To the contrary, we care about Disney so much that we’re hoping the complaints actually mean something within the realm of making improvements. Surely as a business Disney would welcome any and all feedback and particularly the negative feedback. That way, they can make improvements as needed.

As for me personally, I realize that FP+ is probably here to stay and will make the best of it on our May trip. However, if I come on the Dis to lament a less-than-Disney experience later, I would hope that fellow Disers would understand that I’m not coming from a position of hate. How is it in the Disney spirit to tell a fellow Disney fan “good riddance” or “more for me” anyway? I would expect a little more understanding.

No, not all complaints on these boards are valid and many of them are very petty. Nor is every negative review useful for people planning trips either. In fact many of the reviews just tend to create anxiety or confusion for planners, especially first timers. They are a real buzzkill for people who are trying to get excited for their trips.

I have a heart , I know many people on these boards share legitimate issues that warrant understanding and I empathize with them. But, I don't know anybody on these boards personally. As far as feeling the love for every poster that comes here to complain about everything Disney does and then report "We are not going to WDW anymore!".... who cares like someone said earlier in the thread, there's ten more guests waiting to replace you. And months later you still see that same poster on the boards complaining and threatening not to go WDW anymore. It's exhausting. Loved the current thread titled "Has anybody NOT had a disappointing trip lately?" How ridiculous is that? Absolutely not, nobody at all has enjoyed their Disney vacation lately . I felt bad for the OP of that thread because her question was all based on complaints here on the DIS. Fortunately the great majority of the follow-ups were contradictory to what she heard including the quote below that I felt sized things up well.

Keep in mind - while the forums are an awesome device for planning trips and there's a lot of people on here willing to help you out - it's been proven that someone is more likely to write a bad review than a good one... So that may be why you see so many bad reviews. Think how weird it would be to see a post about a bathroom being clean. "Guys you won't believe this but the bathroom in EPCOT was immaculate - great job CMS!" haha - I work in EComm so that's something we've learned.

A lot of the things people are venting/complaining about here on the dis (FP+, construction, ride closures, etc) are the very things the rest of us are happy Disney is doing. The very things you want to critically review to prompt disney to change, are the same things we believe they should be getting a thumbs up for! People complain the rides are run down, but then also complain when they're shut down for repair!! They complain the rides are old and crappy and then complain when Disney replaces them. They complain about construction, but they sure do love it when the dust has cleared and everything is fresh and new .

Sorry for the long post, I never write them because people lose interest, but forgive me if I cannot get on board with the big kumbaya and feign indignance towards someone who posts "bye bye, more room for me " when someone else threatens not to go to WDW anymore. For the one person that post's it there's probably fifty more thinking it, but won't post as much for fear of being the "bad guy" !

 

[DisneyWishes14]

Sorry your nephew had a bad experience. Disney's stock is up over 200% in the past two years and 1st quarter 2015 earnings increased 23% over 4th quarter 2014. They really aren't seeing a decrease in business and, with the acquisition of Marvel and Star Wars, I don't think they will! No, Disney probably doesn't care if your nephew never returns and, truthfully, most people don't. It is a once in a lifetime experience for the vast majority who go. And, whether they like it or not, they will leave some of their money behind.

 

[Mkrop]

Snowman this is what I was thinking too. Everybody has their own opinion. People come on here and gripe about every gosh darn thing under the sun and say what an awful place Disney has become and how they don't care about their guests anymore. Not all of us feel that way!! Some of us feel like Disney is doing a great job! So when we see people dumping on Disney and threatening not to go anymore we say bye bye, so long, good riddance and for that we're the bad guy...the pariah.

It is all in the delivery...no one needs to say "bye more room for me" or "good riddance" whether you agree or disagree with people's complaints . You could ignore it and let them rant and rave or say something kinder like "that's a bummer that the Disney experience is not for you anymore" See the difference.

I for one dont have complaints about the construction, the only CMs I think were awful in all our trips were those at AKL, yet I do have VALID and LEGITIMATE complaints about FP+ and I think WDW should be careful about ticket pricing. But my opinions should be given respect, even if they heaven forbid disparage the ever precious WDW. I dont need to be told there is the door. It is rude plain and simple. I love WDW and DL, I enjoy visiting with my family and yes some of these changes make me sad and I want to complain...let me...scroll on by if you dont like what I have to say

 

[Cormoran]

It is all in the delivery...no one needs to say "bye more room for me" or "good riddance" whether you agree or disagree with people's complaints . You could ignore it and let them rant and rave or say something kinder like "that's a bummer that the Disney experience is not for you anymore" See the difference.

I for one dont have complaints about the construction, the only CMs I think were awful in all our trips were those at AKL, yet I do have VALID and LEGITIMATE complaints about FP+ and I think WDW should be careful about ticket pricing. But my opinions should be given respect, even if they heaven forbid disparage the ever precious WDW. I dont need to be told there is the door. It is rude plain and simple. I love WDW and DL, I enjoy visiting with my family and yes some of these changes make me sad and I want to complain...let me...scroll on by if you dont like what I have to say

Thanks for this. It is about how we word our responses that makes a huge difference. "good Riddance" and similar responses are just frustrating and don't add much to the conversation.

 

[Drfate102]

Everything goes in cycles, right now Disney is doing a lot of infrastructure spending, which is never sexy. The parks are crowded and the only way to fix that is with a truly massive price increase not the little ones we have had, I'm talking about a 20%+. And I think Kevin is right about the construction, lack of workers, all of Orlando is building, it isn't spreading the expense over time, these at Capital Projects and get amortized over the life of the asset. More incentive to get it done faster to get the Tax benefits.

 

[mom2rtk]

Everything goes in cycles, right now Disney is doing a lot of infrastructure spending, which is never sexy. The parks are crowded and the only way to fix that is with a truly massive price increase not the little ones we have had, I'm talking about a 20%+. And I think Kevin is right about the construction, lack of workers, all of Orlando is building, it isn't spreading the expense over time, these at Capital Projects and get amortized over the life of the asset. More incentive to get it done faster to get the Tax benefits.

I'd be a lot more tolerant of the construction if it was to add net new attractions.

 

[Candleshoe]

One thing that I wish they'd do with MK is add more character meets. I know it takes a lot to match face characters.. but bring back Merlin. And PUSH. These things drew 30-50 guests at a minimum.

And develop a show for the theater that sits empty except for Christmas. Is there a show there any other time of year?

Maybe Frozen Sing-along. I know it's in HS, and maybe they don't want to eliminate the draw from there when it has so little else to draw. Perhaps a different show then. Set it for Mid-Morning when things start feeling packed, so that there is greater distribution of people in the morning.

I went to a map and don't see the theater on it! It was near CoP. Did they remove it?

Baymax and Hiro are futuristic, and could meet in Tomorrowland.

 

[Bullseye]

I'd be a lot more tolerant of the construction if it was to add net new attractions.

I know they always talk about how much land disney has so you wonder why they don't just spread out and add new attractions instead of replacing existing ones.

 

[Mickey&Mouse]

It is all in the delivery...no one needs to say "bye more room for me" or "good riddance" whether you agree or disagree with people's complaints . You could ignore it and let them rant and rave or say something kinder like "that's a bummer that the Disney experience is not for you anymore" See the difference.

I for one dont have complaints about the construction, the only CMs I think were awful in all our trips were those at AKL, yet I do have VALID and LEGITIMATE complaints about FP+ and I think WDW should be careful about ticket pricing. But my opinions should be given respect, even if they heaven forbid disparage the ever precious WDW. I dont need to be told there is the door. It is rude plain and simple. I love WDW and DL, I enjoy visiting with my family and yes some of these changes make me sad and I want to complain...let me...scroll on by if you dont like what I have to say

Thanks for this. It is about how we word our responses that makes a huge difference. "good Riddance" and similar responses are just frustrating and don't add much to the conversation.

Both well said!

 

[Dr.Mickey]

Like the quotable Yogi Berra said: "That restaurant is so crowded that nobody eats there anymore."

 

[goofy4tink]

One thing that I wish they'd do with MK is add more character meets. I know it takes a lot to match face characters.. but bring back Merlin. And PUSH. These things drew 30-50 guests at a minimum.

And develop a show for the theater that sits empty except for Christmas. Is there a show there any other time of year?

Maybe Frozen Sing-along. I know it's in HS, and maybe they don't want to eliminate the draw from there when it has so little else to draw. Perhaps a different show then. Set it for Mid-Morning when things start feeling packed, so that there is greater distribution of people in the morning.

I went to a map and don't see the theater on it! It was near CoP. Did they remove it?

Baymax and Hiro are futuristic, and could meet in Tomorrowland.

Yep, it's pretty much gone now. That area is used for storage to the best of my knowledge. Huge waste of a good space. But, if there's a show, more CMs have to be hired, more tech people, and so on. Disney just isn't seeing the need for that. That Christmas show was one of my favorite things to do at the Christmas party. I was horrified to see it go. But, life changes.

No one here thinks that everyone else must believe the same way they do. That's downright silly. I love Disney, I really do. But, I have to admit that during my November Food and Wine stay, I was saying it was my last WDW trip for awhile. It just wasn't 'getting it done' for me. Not sure what the reason was. Now? Yeah, that's not working out very well. I have a week long stay coming up in May and a 4 night stay at DL followed by a week at WDW right after Thanksgiving!! Things will never be the same as they were back in '99. They can't possibly be. I know too much. I know each and every WDW park like the back of my hand...and most of the resorts. With familiarity comes a certain amount of contempt (and I use that term most lovingly!!). I see more of the 'not so wonderful' stuff that others don't see. I see more CMs being less than magical than I used to. But that's pretty much because I'm no longer caught up in all that 'show'. I'm not as easily satisfied. But that doesn't make it a less than wonderful place to be....warts and all.

 

[JimmyV]

We don't have the numbers to say first time guest spend more.

As I said before those numbers are not out there so this is a moot point.

You've said this several times now, and I don't get it. Do you think that this has not been studied?
There is a terrific analysis by M. Kruger, M. Saayman & S.M. Ellis (who in turn rely on data and studies from others, including the prolific Professor Petrick) in which they note:

Yet, according to Petrick (2004b: 463), it is only an assumption that repeat visitors are the most desired visitors. Empirical evidence has yet to show that loyal or repeat visitors are any better than new visitors (Oppermann 2000b). Oppermann (2000b) argues that there is a vast difference between first-time visitors and repeat visitors and that loyalty segmentation must account for these differences. Even though repeat purchase and/or visitation is often touted as something to be desired (Oppermann 2000a: 78), an undersupply of new visitors is usually an indication of a festival in decline (Oppermann 1998: 136; Lau & McKercher 2004: 279).
.
.
Alegre and Juaneda (2006: 686), Li et al. (2008: 288) and Petrick (2004b: 469) all found in their respective research that first-time visitors spend significantly more than repeaters. Li et al. (2008: 288) and Petrick (2004b: 469) concluded that repeat visitors are more price sensitive and more apt to search for lower prices than first-time visitors.

And from The Gospel of the Repeat Guest by Michael Schubach and Lisa Phillips

Of course we care that our guests are happy enough with the stay experience to visit us more than once, but remember that subsequent stays do not necessarily lower total marketing expenses. Also remember that not every return guest spends like the first time; this could be specific to resort guests, but our statistics indicate that some of our returning guests find their way into shoulder rate seasons and bargain accommodations, and may well spend less in the outlets on subsequent stays. We are always honored to have these folks as our guests, but repeating doesn’t always equate to repeat spending.

And for a somewhat lighthearted look at a study, (lighthearted in that the subject matter studied is one that makes me chuckle, but the study itself is serious as are the results), take a look at:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...MLNwpF5xorXePhfHw&sig2=idnfqud4cc2nBNG1CGKtLw

Do any of these academics study Disney specifically? No. But is human behavior all that different?

 

[ModernArtist]

I think we've reached our limit on Yogi Berra quotes in this thread.

 

[JimmyV]

I think we've reached our limit on Yogi Berra quotes in this thread.

No we haven't. "It ain't over til it's over!"
90% of going to Disney World is mental. The other half is physical.

 

[edk35]

We are LONG TIME GOERS TOO. We have been disppointed in recent trips but we do still go. We don't go 3 times a year anymore but we do go at least 1-2 times in a 12-18 month time frame. I think the jury is still out on furture trips until we take this one next week. Not a fan of the changes AT ALL, however we do love JUST BEING THERE, love the off the beaten path stuff and resorts so we make the best each trip despite frustrations. This will be our 3rd spring break trip and 1st spring break trip (crowded time) with the new FP+. I am worried about that. We used it for the first time last Aug. and didn't care for it overall. We will just have to ride it out next week and see what we think at the end of the 9 night trip....then I will report back.

 

[huhwhat]

I have not been since 2013 . I always went off season, but as my kids age it gets more difficult with school schedules to take off. I want to go and experience the changes. I was never one for a FP or touring plan, we just kind of went with the flow. I am sad about the Poly , the waterfall was always no nice to hear in the lobby....we'll see if I get back there any time soon....it is price more than changes

 

[ellie05]

@JimmyV it a moot point unless you had numbers directly from disney. I can also go on google and find "experts" that say the opposite. What I been trying to say is that disney does care about their repeat guest, of course they also care about first time guest, as they need both. Just as they need DVC members and annual pass holders. A place that didn't care about their repeat guest will definitely not be changing hotel rooms into DVC units. Regardless disney is not loosing bussiness as their numbers prove it and that was what the thread was about.

 

[JimmyV]

I don't disagree that Disney cares about repeat guests. But if one is talking about spending patterns, the issue has been studied. For hotels. For festivals. For cruise ships. And while the results might seem counterintuitive, they are fairly consistent.