Looks like Universal win this round

[johde]

2011 = 17.1million or 47k/day (46,849)
2010 = 16.9 million or 46k/day (46,301)
2009 = 17.2 million or 47k/day (47,123)
2008 = 17.0 million or 46k/day (46,448) *366 days
2007 = 17.0 million or 46k/day (46,575)
2006 = 16.6 million or 45k/day (45,479)
2005 = 16.2 million or 44k/day (44,383)
2004 = 15.1 million or 41k/day (41,256) *366 days
2003 = 14.04 million or 38k/day (38,465)
2002 = 14 million or or 38k/day (38,356)
2001 = 14.7 million or 40k/day (40,273)
2000 = 15.4 million or 42k/day (42,076) *366 days
1999 = 15.2 million or 41k/day (41,643)
1998 = 15.64 million or 43k/day (42,849)
1997 = 17.0 million or 46k/day (46,575)
1996 = 13.8 million or 37k/day (37,704) *366 days
1995 = 12.9 million or 35k/day (35,342)
1994 = 11.2 million or 31k/day (30,684)
1993 = 12.0 million or 33k/day (32,876)
1992 = 11.5 million or 31k/day (31,420) *366 days
1991 = 18.0 million or 49k/day (49,315)

These are the annual stats for MK from 1991 to 2011 (note 2012 had 17.5). There were a couple of fluke years 1991 (20th Anniversery of MK) and 1997 (IDK) but the long term trend is up. For the ones picking 1991, why didn't they go with 1992 vs 2012 to showa 20 year trend? That would have been 11.5 million vs 17.5 million.

I'm not saying Disney could not do more with WDW, but I think complete data and not cherry picked data is the best to ensure the facts are presented most accurately.

Even more interesting is looking at it in graphical form. (unfortunately I couldn't find attendance figures for the first couple of years of Universal Studios and I have a big gap in Disney's data in the 1980's). If you look at 1991-2012 you get the following graph.



From 1997 through 2003 or 2004 the general trend among all of the Orlando Theme parks was negative. Looking honestly at the data, Disney righted their ship at that point had a 3-4 year major bounce back and has been cruising ever higher slowly since then.

Universal on the other hand continued to see stagnant and declining attendance until 2010 when WWOHP opened.

What's interesting, and very poignant to the original question is what was set in motion in 2004-2005 that halted Disney's declining attendance but continued Universal's decline for another 5-6 years?

1. What is interesting is 2004 was the year of the Hurricanes. Charley hit Orlando in August then Frances hit Orlando In September. Those events hit and seemed to change things at Disney.

2. MYW tickets started in 2005. Prior to MYW tickets a 5 day parkhopper was the longest ticket you could get without adding the waterparks. In 2004 a 7 day ticket cost $342 and included Park hopping, Water parks and No Expiration. In 2005 a base 7 day ticket cost $199 + 35 for park hopping + $45 for Water Parks. + $55 for no expiration option. The whole shooting match cost $334 an $8 decrease over the previous year. And if you could live with the water parks and no expiration it was $100 cheaper for a week at WDW. The beginning of Disney trying to "lock you in"

3. The beginning of onsite promotions galore. This is when Free Dining really kicked off. For a while they were offering 7 nights for a price of 4.

4. 2005 was Disneyland's 50th Anniversary, and the promotion for WDW was "Disneyland is giving the presents to the other parks around the world" at WDW we had.
2005 - Soarin
2005 - Lights Motors Action
2006 - Expedition Everest

Within the span of under 2 years every park but the MK got a major new attraction.

During that time frame, Universal added Revenge of the Mummy and Started offering discounts on longer tickets as well.

It is interesting, but in doing research for this post I came across a message board post from 2006 that is the exact opposite of this one. Why is Universal Orlando Losing?

Getting back to the original post. Universal is "winning this round". But considering where Universal Orlando was, it's still 6 rounds to Disney and 1 to Universal. The question is where is the momentum going in this "fight". People are looking at Universal 2010-2014 and seeing the excitement and growth that people saw from WDW in 2004-2007. And they are looking at Disney and seeing hints of 2000-2007 Universal.

 

[AmyB2006]

Thank you! I was reading this thread wondering how the argument kept being made that Universal has 2 similar attractions so close together without mention of 3 near identical rides in MK, with a 4th at AK.

I completely understand that people have their own opinions about each park. What I don't get is how people can find flaws with one park (either of them) but not see the same flaw in their favourite. It makes almost as much sense as saying I prefer Disney because it rains too much at Universal, or vice versa.

They say there just isn't anything at Universal that interests them. I simply don't understand that statement. No honest person can just love everything Disney does, especially adding in Avatar, and things such as Aerosmith's RnRC, and Soarin and TT, and then just say Universal is crap, all around.

I'm assuming you guys are referring to me, yet again. But maybe not. So I will try to explain my position again.

My main issue is with Transformers and Spiderman. That's it!!! Not all of Universal, (when it comes to ride duplication). I was disappointed with Transformers because I was expecting something awesome, new and innovative, not Spiderman redone with different video, 10 years after the fact.

I've never said I hate Universal. I actually said I liked it, and can't wait to go to the new HP land. Hopefully I won't be disappointed again.

And I'm not a "never says anything negative" about Disney person either. I was highly disappointed in the new Little Mermaid ride. I expected more than your typical "little car rides slowly through movie setting" type of dark ride.

Anyway, words keep getting put in my mouth after every time I post so I think at this point I'm just going to give up. LOL Because it doesn't matter what I say, someone will still try to say "you're wrong!!!!!!!!"

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm assuming you guys are referring to me, yet again. But maybe not. So I will try to explain my position again.

My main issue is with Transformers and Spiderman. That's it!!! Not all of Universal, (when it comes to ride duplication). I was disappointed with Transformers because I was expecting something awesome, new and innovative, not Spiderman redone with different video, 10 years after the fact.

I've never said I hate Universal. I actually said I liked it, and can't wait to go to the new HP land. Hopefully I won't be disappointed again.

And I'm not a "never says anything negative" about Disney person either. I was highly disappointed in the new Little Mermaid ride. I expected more than your typical "little car rides slowly through movie setting" type of dark ride.

Anyway, words keep getting put in my mouth after every time I post so I think at this point I'm just going to give up. LOL Because it doesn't matter what I say, someone will still try to say "you're wrong!!!!!!!!"

When you conceded the point that Disney duplicates attractions as well, you said it wasn't as bad because the attractions were at least on opposite coasts, 3k+ miles apart, whereas universal has done it in their neighboring parks which makes it.more noticeable.

I think the previous posters were just trying to point out that Disney has done it within the same exact park as well aa between neighboring parks in the same state, which makes it no different than universal doing it between the studios and ioa.

 

[morethananyonex]

I'm assuming you guys are referring to me, yet again. But maybe not. So I will try to explain my position again.

My main issue is with Transformers and Spiderman. That's it!!! Not all of Universal, (when it comes to ride duplication). I was disappointed with Transformers because I was expecting something awesome, new and innovative, not Spiderman redone with different video, 10 years after the fact.

I've never said I hate Universal. I actually said I liked it, and can't wait to go to the new HP land. Hopefully I won't be disappointed again.

And I'm not a "never says anything negative" about Disney person either. I was highly disappointed in the new Little Mermaid ride. I expected more than your typical "little car rides slowly through movie setting" type of dark ride.

Anyway, words keep getting put in my mouth after every time I post so I think at this point I'm just going to give up. LOL Because it doesn't matter what I say, someone will still try to say "you're wrong!!!!!!!!"

My first paragraph was referring to conversation you were part of, where you said the issue was how close the duplicated attractions are to each other at Universal.

My second was more of a general comment on the conversations that occur in the Disney vs. Universal type of discussions. Specifically, I've seen over and over again people say they don't like Universal because there's too many screens, rides are the same, no or low theming, and more. Doesn't help matters when some of these people haven't even been there. Those complaints can all be applied to Disney as well, which is what I was getting at.

I didn't say you hated Universal either, only your strike against Universal compared to Disney doesn't make sense when you realize that Disney has 3 (4 depending how you look at it) of the same attractions in one park, and an additional one in AK. I'm not sure how I'm putting words in your mouth when you said how your issue is with the proximity between the duplicated attractions. Being disappointed that the specific new ride is a duplicate and not more impressive is a totally different statement than being disappointed that they duplicated rides so close together IMO.

When you conceded the point that Disney duplicates attractions as well, you said it wasn't as bad because the attractions were at least on opposite coasts, 3k+ miles apart, whereas universal has done it in their neighboring parks which makes it.more noticeable.

I think the previous posters were just trying to point out that Disney has done it within the same exact park as well aa between neighboring parks in the same state, which makes it no different than universal doing it between the studios and ioa.

Yep. Not only does Disney duplicate attractions, they literally do it right next door, see Dumbos. They also have 3 in the same park minutes from each other, and a 4th at a different WDW park.

 

[wareagle57]

While Universal Studios has absolutely nothing that interests me in the least, I'm sure that the Harry Potter world is beautiful. However, I don't care about HP, so it would do nothing for me.

I also don't think it's fair to compare Harry Potter to New Fantasyland. Harry Potter was an entire new park. NFL was an expansion of one part of one park.

If anything we should compare TWWoHP to the last theme park that Disney World built... Animal Kingdom. But then it isn't much of a contest, is it?

I don't care about HP either, and I would choose Disney over Universal every time if I had to. But Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey is the best ride I have ever been on, hands down and it's really not all that close. I was blown away. The closest thing to is would be Radiator Springs in DL. The WWoHP is something everyone should see and can enjoy even if you don't care about the movie franchise.

 

[Disneyhappy]

Here is one objective comparison from our son starting at the age of 5 through at least11, before he understood the distinction between US and WDW. We would combine our trips. Upon our return home, when folks asked him his favorite Disney attractions, he would reply Spiderman, ET, Shrek, MIB, and Cat In The Hat. DH and I would laugh and say we could save a lot of money by skipping WDW. But we love the Disney franchise and are DVC owners as a result. We visit WDW at least twice a year and a stand alone trip to Universal at least once a year with APs to both parks. Universal is a better value for the money in my opinion for resorts and multiday passes. FP+ will never compare to Front Of The Line Access. Out favorite non DVC resort between US and WDW is Portofino Bay and we have stayed in all WDW deluxes including concierge/club level. I am just glad that we have been blessed to be able to enjoy both franchises. Kids are grown but now we have twin 2 year old princesses who soon will be introduced to WDW. I'm looking forward to experiencing it through a girl's perspective this time around (although DH and I move much slower!).

 

[jade1]

If my goal was to make Disney look real bad I would have picked

MK
1991 18 Million
2012 17.5 Million

21 Years 2.7% decline.

EPCOT
1991 14.4 Million
2012 11.0 Million

21 years 23% decline in Attendance.

DHS
1994 10.4 Million
2012 10.0 Million

18 years 3.8% decline

DAK
1999 8.6 Million
2012 9.9 Million

13 year 15% increase.

Through 2012, every WDW park except AK was off of it's high attendances in the '90's. It was announced though that for 2013 3 of the 4 parks hit new attendance records.

My point was if you look at the recent history. Disney has been pretty flat since 2008, or in reality 2007. While Universal has been making huge gains during the same period. It's interesting, I was just looking at the "major" theme park additions this century.
Red - "Minor" retheme of existing Attraction

2014 Festival of the Lion King Could switch to Green
2006 Expidition Everest
2002 Primevil Whirl & Triceritop Spin
2001 Mickey's Jungle Jammin Parade

Disney's Hollywood Studios
2011 Star Tours 2.0
2008 Toy Story Midway Mania
2005 Lights Motors Action

EPCOT
2011 Test Track 2.0
2009 Sum of all Thrills
2007 Grand Fiesta Tour with the three Caballero's
2006 The Seas with Nemo and Friends
2005 Soarin'
2004 Turtle Talk with Crush
2003 Mission Space
2002 Journey into Imagination with Figment

Magic Kingdom
2014 7 Drarf's Mine Ride
2014 Festival of Fantasy Parade
2012 Journey of the Little Mermaid
2012 Enchanted Tales with Belle
2012 New Fantasyland and Storybook Circus themed Area
2007 Monster's Inc Laughing Floor
2004 Stitches Great Escape
2003 Mickey's Philharmagic
2003 Wishes
2001 Magic Carpets's of Aladin

Islands of Adventure
2014 Hogwart's Express (Hogmead station) and additional themeing of Hogsmead.
2010 Harry Potter and Forbidden Journey
2010 Dragon Challenge & Flight of the Hippogriph
2010 Hogwart's themes area
2006 High in the Sky Suess Trolly

Universal Studio's
2014 Harry Potter and Escape from Gringotts
2014 Hogwart's Express (London Station)
2014 Diagon Alley and London Waterfront
2013 Kang's and Kodo's and Springfield Retheme
2013 Transformer's
2012 Universal's Cinimatic Spectacular
2012 Dispicable Me Minion Mayhem
2008 Simpson's Ride
2006 Disaster:A motion picture ride starring You
2005 Fearfactor Live
2004 Revenge of the Mummy

At the beginning of this Century, Disney was active with new Attractions and the Attendance figures show it paid dividends. Universal was pretty quiet after opening IOA in 1999 "resting on what they had created" in IOA and the attendance by 2004-2008 suffered because of it. In 2008-2009, Universal decided to get off their duff and it's appears to be paying dividends bringing back a pair of parks. Disney during the same time frame has sat on their laurels and has seen their growth disappear.

Looking ahead over the next 3-4 years at Disney we have Avatarland to look forward to and then maybe further down the road Starwars land.

At Universal, IOA has broken ground for the Return of King Kong probably in 2016. And there are credible rumors of Godzilla coming to USF, Expansion of Jurassic Park with a new ride at IOA, Kid's Zone getting a refresh with New major ride.

And if you wanted to make it look good you would have picked 1992 for MK with 11.5 million right?

1992 11.5 million
2012 17.5 million a 60% increase

 

[macphisto96]

And if you wanted to make it look good you would have picked 1992 for MK with 11.5 million right?

1992 11.5 million
2012 17.5 million a 60% increase

1991 was an aberration, so using that high attendance number was definitely not a great idea.

That said, they did peak once more in 1997 and hit a steady decline at MK till 2003. They were already declining after 9/11, but that caused an even larger decline.

In fact, Disney's fairly steady attendance numbers give them a reason not to have to move quickly or do much. They automatically will have 15-16 million paying patrons and often more.

The main concern with IOA and Universal are the gains being made. IOA grew 30% year on year just with Potter. That caused Disney to expedite the New Fantasyland concept that was already in the planning as a response. Disney's growth had fallen behind Universal and even Six Flags. In business, growth is the big deal for us. We want to see those numbers going up. Disney's still went up, but much more slowly.

The real threat isn't at MK, it's Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. The numbers at USF are trending upwards. 2013 saw a nearly 20% jump for Universal. Potter 2 could make that even bigger. That means that MK will still hold the top spot, but Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom could both be passed. From a PR standpoint, that would be bad news for Disney. It would tarnish their crown. All four of their parks lead all other parks in Florida.

Epcot is not beyond reach either. That is a park growing increasingly stale, the one that has seen the least work in the last decade. Soarin' in 2005 was the last major upgrade there. The Studios have gotten Star Tours 2 and Toy Story Mania, and Lights, Motors, Action since then. Animal Kingdom has only gotten Everest, but that was a big one. Magic Kingdom picked up New Fantasyland and the Laugh Floor. Epcot only has the revision at Mexico, the revision of Test Track, and Soarin' to really show. The central problem at Epcot is the reliance on the Food & Wine Festival and the Flower & Garden Festival coupled with a lot of younger adults who like to "drink around the world". Epcot has fallen far from its original vision.

I think we will see at least one Disney park passed in attendance soon, if not all three. Magic Kingdom won't be, but Universal is moving a lot faster than Disney can at this point. And when Disney moves fast, they mess up. They jammed Toy Story Mania in too quickly and it has some terrible problems with ride capacity and loading inefficiency.

My major question is if Universal will revisit its own third gate plans. They had a plan for land acquisition and expansion around the current footprint over a decade ago. There's also some thought that the Lockheed land they sold may be resold to them (mostly). So they may create a secondary campus with another park and set of hotels. If they keep up double digit growth, Comcast will keep throwing money at them. That means more attractions, higher capacity, and a greater threat.

 

[jade1]

1991 was an aberration, so using that high attendance number was definitely not a great idea.

That said, they did peak once more in 1997 and hit a steady decline at MK till 2003. They were already declining after 9/11, but that caused an even larger decline.

In fact, Disney's fairly steady attendance numbers give them a reason not to have to move quickly or do much. They automatically will have 15-16 million paying patrons and often more.

The main concern with IOA and Universal are the gains being made. IOA grew 30% year on year just with Potter. That caused Disney to expedite the New Fantasyland concept that was already in the planning as a response. Disney's growth had fallen behind Universal and even Six Flags. In business, growth is the big deal for us. We want to see those numbers going up. Disney's still went up, but much more slowly.

The real threat isn't at MK, it's Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. The numbers at USF are trending upwards. 2013 saw a nearly 20% jump for Universal. Potter 2 could make that even bigger. That means that MK will still hold the top spot, but Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom could both be passed. From a PR standpoint, that would be bad news for Disney. It would tarnish their crown. All four of their parks lead all other parks in Florida.

Epcot is not beyond reach either. That is a park growing increasingly stale, the one that has seen the least work in the last decade. Soarin' in 2005 was the last major upgrade there. The Studios have gotten Star Tours 2 and Toy Story Mania, and Lights, Motors, Action since then. Animal Kingdom has only gotten Everest, but that was a big one. Magic Kingdom picked up New Fantasyland and the Laugh Floor. Epcot only has the revision at Mexico, the revision of Test Track, and Soarin' to really show. The central problem at Epcot is the reliance on the Food & Wine Festival and the Flower & Garden Festival coupled with a lot of younger adults who like to "drink around the world". Epcot has fallen far from its original vision.

I think we will see at least one Disney park passed in attendance soon, if not all three. Magic Kingdom won't be, but Universal is moving a lot faster than Disney can at this point. And when Disney moves fast, they mess up. They jammed Toy Story Mania in too quickly and it has some terrible problems with ride capacity and loading inefficiency.

My major question is if Universal will revisit its own third gate plans. They had a plan for land acquisition and expansion around the current footprint over a decade ago. There's also some thought that the Lockheed land they sold may be resold to them (mostly). So they may create a secondary campus with another park and set of hotels. If they keep up double digit growth, Comcast will keep throwing money at them. That means more attractions, higher capacity, and a greater threat.

What source do you use for annual visitors?

Good points-I would assume US has their attention (and hope so for all of our sakes) I just think there are often short term changes (and Disney invests at a lot of different locations) and if US/IOA are soo much better than AK/DHS they will (and should) pass them in attendance. But then down the road DHS get Cars Land and/or Star Wars plus AK improvements-so then what? Do we come back here and conclude we all win and it's just typical business changes as usual?

And if some parks are passed-might be a good thing-I mean what would happen?

My bigger question is attendance measurements.

If I go back and forth into EPCOT from BCV during a single day-is that considered multiple people visits?

Likewise if I go back and forth to US and IOA is that multiple?

And does the new HP train going back and forth keep counting those as extra visitors?

Same with DL and CA-seems like if parks are feet apart is a huge advantage for guest counts.

Or is it just tickets sold?

 

[Mad Hattered]

What source do you use for annual visitors?

Good points-I would assume US has their attention (and hope so for all of our sakes) I just think there are often short term changes (and Disney invests at a lot of different locations) and if US/IOA are soo much better than AK/DHS they will (and should) pass them in attendance. But then down the road DHS get Cars Land and/or Star Wars plus AK improvements-so then what? Do we come back here and conclude we all win and it's just typical business changes as usual?

And if some parks are passed-might be a good thing-I mean what would happen?

My bigger question is attendance measurements.

If I go back and forth into EPCOT from BCV during a single day-is that considered multiple people visits?

Likewise if I go back and forth to US and IOA is that multiple?

And does the new HP train going back and forth keep counting those as extra visitors?

Same with DL and CA-seems like if parks are feet apart is a huge advantage for guest counts.

Or is it just tickets sold?

It's number of times of entry, period. There aren't 17 million individual people visiting MK yearly.

As far as US/IOA - when using the Hogwarts Express you will be required to have a two park pass. The ticket will be scanned at the entrance of each loading platform and you are required to exit the train. There are no roundtrips on a single ride.

 

[jade1]

It's number of times of entry, period. There aren't 17 million individual people visiting MK yearly.

As far as US/IOA - when using the Hogwarts Express you will be required to have a two park pass. The ticket will be scanned at the entrance of each loading platform and you are required to exit the train. There are no roundtrips on a single ride.

I see, so this whole thing is bogus.

It's much easier to walk (now ride an attraction) back and forth at US/IOA and DL/CA than anything at WDW.

I'm guessing all parks are about 60% of what they claim then correct?

I now believe HP2 will bump IOA up even further as well as US-many folks will be doing both the same day-us included.

Hey maybe MK could put an exit and entry booth on 1/2 the park on the train there, so they can bump up the guest count. Be easy on the guests with the bands.

 

[Mad Hattered]

I see, so this whole thing is bogus.

It's much easier to walk (now ride an attraction) back and forth at US/IOA and DL/CA than anything at WDW.

I'm guessing all parks are about 60% of what they claim then correct?

I now believe HP2 will bump IOA up even further as well as US-many folks will be doing both the same day-us included.

Hey maybe MK could put an exit and entry booth on 1/2 the park on the train there, so they can bump up the guest count. Be easy on the guests with the bands.

Johde's information isn't bogus but the whole attendance report that anyone has to go by is.

Just think about how many times just you criss cross in and out of EPCOT when you stay at Boardwalk. And take the boat over to DHS. Every time you go in and out it counts as attendance. It's actually pretty easy to go back and forth from EPCOT and DHS, just as it's easy to hop at US/IOA.

It's not just a "train" that will connect the parks but Disney isn't smart enough to do that anyway.

Bottom line is that it will increase attendance in BOTH parks (US significantly) and therefore increase REVENUE. That's all they are really after anyway....right?

Don't even TRY to guess how much money US will make off the interactive wand experiences.

 

[clsteve]

Johde's information isn't bogus but the whole attendance report that anyone has to go by is.

It's not just a "train" that will connect the parks but Disney isn't smart enough to do that anyway.

Bottom line is that it will increase attendance in BOTH parks (US significantly) and therefore increase REVENUE. That's all they are really after anyway....right?

Don't even TRY to guess how much money US will make off the interactive wand experiences.

Absolutely!! Revenue growth for USF when cross-referenced to the profitability increase YTY is what Disney truly watches. USF has a much more compact expense line compared to them- just due to overall size. Disney also knows exactly what you all are pointing out- their attendance figures are skewed by how they account for them.

What really scares Disney much more than attendance figures, is the potential for USF to shorten the average length of stay at Disney Resorts. Split stays or Disney Hotel/DVC guests starting to do 2-3 days at USF when it used to just be one day off-property ---- huge issue. That's the real one they'll watch and a figure we don't have visibility into: avg. length of stay

 

[rastuso]

Even more interesting is looking at it in graphical form. (unfortunately I couldn't find attendance figures for the first couple of years of Universal Studios and I have a big gap in Disney's data in the 1980's). If you look at 1991-2012 you get the following graph.



From 1997 through 2003 or 2004 the general trend among all of the Orlando Theme parks was negative. Looking honestly at the data, Disney righted their ship at that point had a 3-4 year major bounce back and has been cruising ever higher slowly since then.

Universal on the other hand continued to see stagnant and declining attendance until 2010 when WWOHP opened.

What's interesting, and very poignant to the original question is what was set in motion in 2004-2005 that halted Disney's declining attendance but continued Universal's decline for another 5-6 years?

1. What is interesting is 2004 was the year of the Hurricanes. Charley hit Orlando in August then Frances hit Orlando In September. Those events hit and seemed to change things at Disney.

2. MYW tickets started in 2005. Prior to MYW tickets a 5 day parkhopper was the longest ticket you could get without adding the waterparks. In 2004 a 7 day ticket cost $342 and included Park hopping, Water parks and No Expiration. In 2005 a base 7 day ticket cost $199 + 35 for park hopping + $45 for Water Parks. + $55 for no expiration option. The whole shooting match cost $334 an $8 decrease over the previous year. And if you could live with the water parks and no expiration it was $100 cheaper for a week at WDW. The beginning of Disney trying to "lock you in"

3. The beginning of onsite promotions galore. This is when Free Dining really kicked off. For a while they were offering 7 nights for a price of 4.

4. 2005 was Disneyland's 50th Anniversary, and the promotion for WDW was "Disneyland is giving the presents to the other parks around the world" at WDW we had.
2005 - Soarin
2005 - Lights Motors Action
2006 - Expedition Everest

Within the span of under 2 years every park but the MK got a major new attraction.

During that time frame, Universal added Revenge of the Mummy and Started offering discounts on longer tickets as well.

It is interesting, but in doing research for this post I came across a message board post from 2006 that is the exact opposite of this one. Why is Universal Orlando Losing?

Getting back to the original post. Universal is "winning this round". But considering where Universal Orlando was, it's still 6 rounds to Disney and 1 to Universal. The question is where is the momentum going in this "fight". People are looking at Universal 2010-2014 and seeing the excitement and growth that people saw from WDW in 2004-2007. And they are looking at Disney and seeing hints of 2000-2007 Universal.

Didn't Magical Express about then too?

That was really the genius move by Disney. Kidnap folks at the airport, and don't let them rent a car. Offer "free dining" if you overpay for the room, and voila!

-Jason

 

[ArwenMarie]

What really scares Disney much more than attendance figures, is the potential for USF to shorten the average length of stay at Disney Resorts. Split stays or Disney Hotel/DVC guests starting to do 2-3 days at USF when it used to just be one day off-property ---- huge issue. That's the real one they'll watch and a figure we don't have visibility into: avg. length of stay

Yep. People aren't going to necessarily lengthen their visit to Orlando because they want to see Universal also, they might just carve out their week differently between the two resorts. Maybe even drop seeing one of the Disney parks. Maybe we'll see some action on fixing DHS because of this, seems like AK is already in the works.

 

[agame2323]

The fact that we're even having this discussion shows there is a slight change in direction and Universal has gain some serious momentum.

 

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

Yep. People aren't going to necessarily lengthen their visit to Orlando because they want to see Universal also, they might just carve out their week differently between the two resorts. Maybe even drop seeing one of the Disney parks. Maybe we'll see some action on fixing DHS because of this, seems like AK is already in the works.

I think our family is unusual in that we go to Disney and Universal on separate trips instead of adding a day or two for Universal. Reading the Universal boards over the past few years, there is a large number of families who never considered Universal before now adding a day to see WWOHP. That will likely increase to two or more days with the opening of Diagon Alley.

Similarly, there have been several posts from people who skip DHS and/or AK, either to go to Universal or to have a rest day.

 

[sethschroeder]

And this is exactly why HP is not, and never will be, a "dying franchise". An entire generation has grown up with the Harry Potter books. And they'll pass that love on to their children and their children's children, the same way previous generations did with Peter Pan and Mary Poppins and Winnie the Pooh.

Reading is not a dying art. With popular books spinning off movies right and left, and with e-books making books cheaper and more accessible than every before, more people read for pleasure now than in any previous generation. Yes, the publishing industry is in trouble and brick-and-mortar bookstores are struggling to survive. But Amazon is a behemoth in the corporate world, and not because they sell garden supplies. E-publishing means anyone can self-publish a book, and tens of thousand of people do, every year. There are more amateur writers and bloggers out there than at any previous time in history.

Sorry but reading is a dying art and partly why HP needs to stay relevant in new age media (Video Games foremost and Movies secondarily). Video Games are the new media delivery systems for stories as the depth continues to increase with graphic and control enhancements and the percentage of people who play increases with people in their 40's growing up playing video games.

From 2005 to 2012 - "When the survey was first conducted in 2005, four in 10 children said they read daily in their own time. That figure is now around three in ten."
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/sep/07/children-reading-fun-fallen-study


"For example, since 2010, there has been a 29.5% increase in the number of children and young people who agreed that they would be embarrassed if their friends saw them reading"

Daily reading has fallen from 38.1% in 2005 to 28.4% in 2012

Now while this is based out of the UK I was unable to find any reliable data for the US but I would expect those numbers to be lower as a whole.

http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/res...findings_from_the_2012_annual_literacy_survey


Finally Peter Pan and Marry Poppins you are showing to kids when they are 1/2/3/4 as a keep the kids busy for 2 hours while I make dinner. Harry Potter is an investment the child must put in themselves when they reach what? probably 8/9/10? At this point in time they are starting to feel the peer pressure and if Harry Potter is not apart of the "in-crowd" it will find itself on the outside.

Look at how The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe disappeared until recent times with a re-release and remake of the book/movie.

 

[Myalyas]

We just came home from 6 days at WDW and 2 days at Universal IOA. I'm already wanting to start planning for a return trip to Universal! About the only thing I'd be interested to go back to WDW for would be Epcot and Downtown Disney.

 

[jade1]

Johde's information isn't bogus but the whole attendance report that anyone has to go by is.

Just think about how many times just you criss cross in and out of EPCOT when you stay at Boardwalk. And take the boat over to DHS. Every time you go in and out it counts as attendance. It's actually pretty easy to go back and forth from EPCOT and DHS, just as it's easy to hop at US/IOA.

It's not just a "train" that will connect the parks but Disney isn't smart enough to do that anyway.

Bottom line is that it will increase attendance in BOTH parks (US significantly) and therefore increase REVENUE. That's all they are really after anyway....right?

Don't even TRY to guess how much money US will make off the interactive wand experiences.

Agreed, but no matter what having the park entrance at 1,000 walkable feet apart at US and IOA (instead of 2 to 4 unwalkable miles), plus an actual back and forth attraction that is going to and from the same themed attractions is brilliant for a numbers game.

If WDW had all 4 gates at 1,000 feet apart at DTD-think of the inflation that would be.

We have bounced back and forth at UNI many times a day.