Local TSAs do not like opt-outs

[lost*in*cyberspace]

And, here we go, yet again. So, the OP is curious as to why the TSA agents made such a big deal??? Perhaps they are less comfortable doing the pat down then you are having it done. I know that I wouldn't want that job. That's probably all there was to it. And add to that the fact that they probably don't get all that many requests for pat downs in a smaller airport.

If people don't like the way it's done, complain to the govt. The TSA workers are doing their job. Why make it harder for them?? I have yet to meet a jerk TSA worker. The vast majority have been cheerful and helpful. Yes, I have run into the occasional person who is a bit more 'serious' and takes things very much to heart..so I adjust my attitude.
The rules are the rules...period. You don't want to go through the machines, then you get a pat down. So...now we have posters complaining about TSA people who are hesitant about doing the pat downs...somewhat unfamilier with the whole proceedure...and awhile ago, we had posters complaining that these same TSA workers were enjoying their jobs and liked doing the pat downs. Can't win here.

You want things to change??? Complain to the appropriate agency. Just don't do it in the security line!! Smart mouth comments, smart alec behaviour only slows it down for everyone.

I agree with the above 100%!

I flew out of our small regional airport to Orlando last week. They had 1 body scanner. I won the lottery for the scanner. I chose to "opt-out". What a hassle it was for them! .....

I don't think they get too many requests to opt-out. Wish more people would. It seemed to be a big hassle for everyone involved.

Once I emerged from behind closed doors, many of the passengers looked at me like I was a bad person, I got a big laugh out of that. I'm sure they thought I had been pulled away for suspicious activity or something and was interrogated behind closed doors.

I don't mean to be rude, but if I had witnessed this, I would have gotten a big laugh out of all the time you wasted in your meaningless protest against the rules. You could have breezed through the scanner, then been relaxing at the gate or in a restaurant, etc. rather than purposely trying to waste time for both yourself and other people.

Feel free to ask for a pat down rather than going through the scanner. However, why would you even start a thread like this - do you think anyone else cares, even people who read this board? I am not interested in engaging in a meaningless debate as to whether or not these rules really protect anyone, however, if you want things to change, you need to complain to your elected representatives, not be rude to TSA agents or be difficult. They don't make the rules.

 

[Sugarlumples]

here! here! I'll drink to this, can't agree with you more. I have a new knee and get the pat down all the time. I just get it over with and move on. Let them do their jobs and keep the lines moving.

Totally not trying to be argumentative, but a woman having her breast felt up, down, and sideways is a little different that having a knee patted down. I know they are just body parts, but it's a really awkward feeling. And I am not one of those people who think that the agents get any sort of pleasure in doing the pat downs. I imagine it's awkward for them too.

 

[vacationclub]

Oh please. There just aren't all that many people that truly care about this. .

You've taken a poll? Apparently the TSA felt differently last year.

Is it safe??? Most likely for the average person..

That's very reassuring from someone on the internet. Thanks.

You go through those things every day then maybe there are consequences...so opt out. Yeah, I know...there are scientific findings that say they are not safe, that they are frying our brains. On the other hand, there are scientific findings that say they are safe. I don't come down on either side. Sometimes I even choose the nasty old backscatter machines...the line can be a lot shorter..

Yet you come down on people who did take a side....who did decide to opt out.

But truly??? If you asked 1000 people, in the airport, if they were concerned about the xray machines in security (and you have to call them xray machines otherwise no one knows what the heck you're talking about), the vast majority (probably about 900) will tell you no, they don't even think about it.

So, again, I'm asking you, have you done this poll? And, even if you did, or someone else has...WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ACTUAL DANGERS?

Going through those stupid machines just isn't a concern for me.

Great. Why do you care about the people for whom it IS a concern?

 

[Sugarlumples]

Not surprising at all. There is absolutely no consistency in their methods, their rules, their equipment sensitivity or their logic. I've been through at least 20 airports in the last 2 years and still have new and random experiences that are completely opposite of what I would experience somewhere else. One TSA bozo in ROC even scolded me for having 9 volt batteries because "that's what terrorists use". My response: "that's what kids toys use too".

Nice work, Sherlock.

OMG! The mind, it boggles.

One of the random screening inconsistency experiences that sticks out in my mind was at the same airport as my recent pat down, but a couple years before. So, on my trips I always bring an empty water bottle. The one I had on this trip was a pink plastic Camelbak. Anywho, it was removed from my bag and swabbed (on the outside.) I was told "all empty bottles must be swabbed"...oooookie dokie. Whatever. I went on with my life. Now, ask me if I have ever had my empty bottle swabbed again since that one day? Nope, of course not.


And as a disclaimer, I am not sharing my encounters to start any debates or arguments. I am simply sharing my personal experiences.

 

[vacationclub]

I agree with the above 100%!



I don't mean to be rude, but if I had witnessed this, I would have gotten a big laugh out of all the time you wasted in your

meaningless protest against the rules.​

They specifically followed the rules. That was the whole point of the thread...that when taking the option the rules call for, the TSA felt put out that they had to use their own mandated methods.

You could have breezed through the scanner, then been relaxing at the gate or in a restaurant, etc. rather than purposely trying to waste time for both yourself and other people.

First, it's not wasting time if you don't want to go through a scanner. Second, you aren't wasting anyone else's time unless they ALSO want to get a pat-down.

Feel free to ask for a pat down rather than going through the scanner. However, why would you even start a thread like this - do you think anyone else cares, even people who read this board?

Obviously they did think that. Obviously other people do too...thus this discussion...which includes..... you!

I am not interested in engaging in a meaningless debate as to whether or not these rules really protect anyone, however, if you want things to change, you need to complain to your elected representatives, not be rude to TSA agents or be difficult.

The quote you directed this response to in no way mentions any sort of rudeness towards any TSA agent, nor does it mention any complaints that should have been to an elected official.

They don't make the rules.

No, but they choose how to enforce them. They can decide if your adult diaper is a threat to national security or not. That's the reason for most people's outrage....the morons that are given this responsibility.

 

[littleaussie]

I am very sorry. I did not mean to start a debate. I am sorry if I posted a thread that no one cares about or worse, was a hot topic.

In my defence, I did search this topic and could find nothing recent so I assumed it wasn't a touchy subject anymore.

My apologies.

 

[KGK]

Revolution? I thought we were all on the same side.

Personally, I'm going to take a double wide stroller and use it as a battering ram if the person in front of me slows down.

 

[vacationclub]

double post...not sure why

 

[vacationclub]

I am very sorry. I did not mean to start a debate. I am sorry if I posted a thread that no one cares about or worse, was a hot topic.

In my defence, I did search this topic and could find nothing recent so I assumed it wasn't a touchy subject anymore.

My apologies.

You have nothing to apologize for. You told a story....one that is actually very believable. You exercised your right to opt out of the unproven radiation....something the TSA wishes most people won't do.
They like it when the people just go through the machines like sheep so they don't have to perform their ridiculous unconstitutional search that, even they know, will almost certainly yield nothing ever to be concerned about. The simple fact is that the 9/11 attackers could have gone through both a pat down and a back-scatter, and would still have succeeded. Their methods would still work today if it weren't for two factors: 1- they can't get into the cockpit anymore, and 2- passengers won't stand by and let them fly into a building knowing that happened before. That trick was so short-lived that even plane number 4 (United 93) figured out their intentions and prevented them.

Revolution? I thought we were all on the same side.

You're right. Let's just cancel all elections...we all agree perfectly on how to do things...no need to make adjustments.

Personally, I'm going to take a double wide stroller and use it as a battering ram if the person in front of me slows down.

Other peoples pat downs, most of which aren't requested, don't slow you down anyway. Fly much?

 

[KGK]

You're right. Let's just cancel all elections...we all agree perfectly on how to do things...no need to make adjustments.
Other peoples pat downs, most of which aren't requested, don't slow you down anyway. Fly much?

1. I didn't say anything about elections. Elections are the opposite of revolutions. Elections bring about (theorically ) orderly changes to governments. I have battle scars to prove I know the difference. But I absolutely believe you have the right to twist facts and have fought to defend your rights.

2. Lighten up. Read the long thread about being attacked by strollers... It was a joke.

3. I fly often and make sure that I leave enough time to get thru the TSA lines. Anyone who flys often would understand that there are always folks who hold up the line (sometimes thru no fault of their own).

 

[sam_gordon]

You have nothing to apologize for. You told a story....one that is actually very believable. You exercised your right to opt out of the unproven radiation....something the TSA wishes most people won't do.

Didn't you in a PP basically accuse goofy4tink of making statements not based on provable fact? Remember... it was when you asked her for the results of her poll. So now I ask you... how do you know what the TSA wishes people would or wouldn't do?

For the record, where I work, I wish people would learn how to use their equipment so I wouldn't have to teach them the same thing every 3 months.

They like it when the people just go through the machines like sheep so they don't have to perform their ridiculous unconstitutional search that, even they know, will almost certainly yield nothing ever to be concerned about.

There's that "proven fact" thing again. Has their been a court case that has determined the pat downs, the body scanners, or anything is "unconstitutional"? Please post a link, because I must have missed that and I'm sure it's was all over the news.

The simple fact is that the 9/11 attackers could have gone through both a pat down and a back-scatter, and would still have succeeded.

Again, I might have missed something, but did the attackers bring the box cutters through security with them? Do you have anything to show that a pat down WOULDN'T (100%) have found the weapons?

Their methods would still work today if it weren't for two factors: 1- they can't get into the cockpit anymore, and 2- passengers won't stand by and let them fly into a building knowing that happened before. That trick was so short-lived that even plane number 4 (United 93) figured out their intentions and prevented them.

1- All I know is I wouldn't want to be the pilot if I have a terrorist outside the door threatening to shoot/kill one passenger every 'x' minutes.
2- We'll never know how much the terrorists were paying attention. What if the TERRORISTS do get into the cockpit then lock everyone else out? Not a lot the passengers will be able to do.

Here's the problem... SOMETHING needs to be done to prevent terrorists from getting on planes. No solution is 100%. And before you (or someone) brings up the Israeli "model" of airport security, keep in mind the scale difference. The BUSIEST airport in Israel I think would rank ~#15 in the US. And they STILL recommend arriving 2-3 hours before your flight there.

And please tell me how the Thanksgiving "pat down" FAILURE has changed what the TSA does? Yes, they no longer pat down kids. But what other procedures have changed?

I agree the current security methods are an inconvenience. I wish we didn't have to go through them. But I have yet to hear of another PRACTICAL solution.
You're right. Let's just cancel all elections...we all agree perfectly on how to do things...no need to make adjustments.
Other peoples pat downs, most of which aren't requested, don't slow you down anyway. Fly much?[/QUOTE]

 

[vacationclub]

1. I didn't say anything about elections. Elections are the opposite of revolutions. Elections bring about (theorically ) orderly changes to governments. I have battle scars to prove I know the difference. But I absolutely believe you have the right to twist facts and have fought to defend your rights.

2. Lighten up. Read the long thread about being attacked by strollers... It was a joke.

3. I fly often and make sure that I leave enough time to get thru the TSA lines. Anyone who flys often would understand that there are always folks who hold up the line (sometimes thru no fault of their own).

1: You said "arent' we all on the same side"...as if the use of the term revolution was un-warranted. Clearly you aren't seeing that people aren't on the same side.....of the issue. My election comment was to cast light on the basis of your argument....not to compare the two words in the dictionary.

Please explain which fact was twisted.

2- This is not a thread about strollers, so how can you expect me to know that I would need to 'lighten up" about your joke?. Beyond that, I never actually mentioned anything about your use of the word stoller anyway....I mentioned that whatever method you choose (stollers, etc) was completely unwarranted because no one is slowing you down due to pat downs in the first place.

3- So, if you fly often, and acknowledge slow downs are not usually people's fault (especially if they're off to the side or in another room getting a pat-down) why did you make a comment about running people down who get in your way? Then use a reference from some other joke in another thread?

How can I lighten up when you make references to things that aren't being discussed here, are a joke from another thread, or flat out aren't true?

 

[KGK]

1: You said "arent' we all on the same side"...as if the use of the term revolution was un-warranted. Clearly you aren't seeing that people aren't on the same side.....of the issue. My election comment was to cast light on the basis of your argument....not to compare the two words in the dictionary.

Please explain which fact was twisted.

2- This is not a thread about strollers, so how can you expect me to know that I would need to 'lighten up" about your joke?. Beyond that, I never actually mentioned anything about your use of the word stoller anyway....I mentioned that whatever method you choose (stollers, etc) was completely unwarranted because no one is slowing you down due to pat downs in the first place.

3- So, if you fly often, and acknowledge slow downs are not usually people's fault (especially if they're off to the side or in another room getting a pat-down) why did you make a comment about running people down who get in your way? Then use a reference from some other joke in another thread?

How can I lighten up when you make references to things that aren't being discussed here, are a joke from another thread, or flat out aren't true?

You're right. You win. Congratulations. Another notch in your belt.

 

[vacationclub]

Didn't you in a PP basically accuse goofy4tink of making statements not based on provable fact? Remember... it was when you asked her for the results of her poll. So now I ask you... how do you know what the TSA wishes people would or wouldn't do?

Good point. I guess I would say that in this case the evidence, based on the OP's experience and another who chimed in, is that the TSA seems to, in those cases not want to do it. I wasn't quite so bold as to quote actual statistics.

For the record, where I work, I wish people would learn how to use their equipment so I wouldn't have to teach them the same thing every 3 months.

Not sure what that means, so I can't respond.

There's that "proven fact" thing again. Has their been a court case that has determined the pat downs, the body scanners, or anything is "unconstitutional"? Please post a link, because I must have missed that and I'm sure it's was all over the news.

Geez, I guess I missed the part where I said proven fact. But I'm pretty sure that the constitution prohibits search and seizure without a warrant. I'm also pretty sure that when the Supreme Court makes decisions about the constitution, it happened long after the question arises to begin with. So just because there hasn't been a case brought to the court doesn't mean you can't make that argument.

Again, I might have missed something, but did the attackers bring the box cutters through security with them? Do you have anything to show that a pat down WOULDN'T (100%) have found the weapons?

It's ten years old, so link may be a bit tough to show that exact story. But yes, they put box cutters in their bags, EDIT: since at the time they were apparently not prohibited. A week ago a gun made it through TSA at DFW, regardless of the patdown.

1- All I know is I wouldn't want to be the pilot if I have a terrorist outside the door threatening to shoot/kill one passenger every 'x' minutes.

I think most people would agree. What's the argument here?

2- We'll never know how much the terrorists were paying attention. What if the TERRORISTS do get into the cockpit then lock everyone else out? Not a lot the passengers will be able to do.

How much they were paying attention to what? If your scenario occurs, well then they used a different method than 9/11 so your point is moot.

Here's the problem... SOMETHING needs to be done to prevent terrorists from getting on planes. No solution is 100%.

I completely agree. But I don't believe that method requires searches that aren't based in any history, any leads, any logic. I'm perfectly happy to walk through a metal detector...the machine that has worked for years and years.

And before you (or someone) brings up the Israeli "model" of airport security, keep in mind the scale difference. The BUSIEST airport in Israel I think would rank ~#15 in the US. And they STILL recommend arriving 2-3 hours before your flight there.

No one is saying that we must do exactly as they do. But they take a completely different method. We take a brute force hammer approach.

And please tell me how the Thanksgiving "pat down" FAILURE has changed what the TSA does? Yes, they no longer pat down kids. But what other procedures have changed?

That event didn't specifically cause a change, but it inspired it. The TSA last year announce intentions to take a more "risk based" method for it approach to screening. Sound familiar?

I agree the current security methods are an inconvenience. I wish we didn't have to go through them. But I have yet to hear of another PRACTICAL solution.

Well, quite honestly, I was perfectly content with the methond we had before October of 2010, when you went though a metal detector.

It wasn't until a guy boarded a plane in another country (not via the TSA) that was on a watch list, reported as a suspected terrorist by his Father, with no luggage and no coat as he headed to Detroit in December, after paying cash for a one way ticket.....that the US decided we wouldn't be able to figure out all of those massive clues if a guy tries to board a plane with a big fat diaper bomb. SO, instead, they used the brute force method of screening everyone for something that never happened here to begin with.

 

[vacationclub]

You're right. You win. Congratulations. Another notch in your belt.

No, no, you're right. You win. I concede. Oh, wait, that was your way of "taking the high road" when your points were countered. Got it.

 

[KGK]

No, no, you're right. You win. I concede. Oh, wait, that was your way of "taking the high road" when your points were countered. Got it.

Congratulations on countering a joke that you didn't understand.

Not.... going.... there....

Oopps, I forgot - you win. You're right, you countered each of my points.. again.

Go argue with someone else. I obviously am no match.

 

[keishashadow]

I am also curious why you would want this. When it's my turn to be "felt up" I always ask for a male TSA agent. I have been a widow for a while and it's my only chance for a little fun. Of course I am always denied this request and given a female TSA agent for the freebie..... Last time I flew with Dsis it was her turn for the freebie and when the agent checked the breast area Dsis hollered "WOO HOO" which cracked everyone up. Of course we fly out of Flint Michigan and the TSA there are not so up tight like Orlando. Susan

nwa ha ha, best post this year (although it is only January)

I do take responsibility. If regulations require that I have the option to have a private screening, I don't see how I am adding to the fuss by exercising that option. Yes, it is more of a hassle but hey, it is part of their job. What I don't get is how they try to dissuade you from taking an option they have decided to allow in their regulations.

jmho, while I defend your freedom to choose, have you considered that electing an option that diverts the attention of TSA staff from their serious task at hand also increases the line clearing time of those behind you.

OT - I am so glad that PIT now has a line for those traveling coach with 1 carryon that seems to flow well on the weekends.

 

[vacationclub]

Congratulations on countering a joke that you didn't understand.

Not.... going.... there....

Oopps, I forgot - you win. You're right, you countered each of my points.. again.

Go argue with someone else. I obviously am no match.

I responded your other points (not just your joke) but I guess you didn't read that or are just ignoring it. Funny joke by the way...now that I realize you were joking.

Forget about the stroller part....Why did you say "I thought we were all on the same side" to begin with? Can you discuss your very first comment in this thread (besides the joke).

 

[vacationclub]

jmho, while I defend your freedom to choose, have you considered that electing an option that diverts the attention of TSA staff from their serious task at hand also increases the line clearing time of those behind you.

Isn't a pat down part of their "serious task at hand?". You seem to be implying that they are taking the TSA away from looking for the real terrorists. Isn't everyone considered a terrorist until the TSA says otherwise? It's a choice they give you, why feel guilty for taking the lesser of two evils?

Whenever I've had one (forced or requested) they didn't tear someone away from an x-ray machine or a scanner, etc. They have people floating that are meant for this. No line got slower because a pat down occurred.

 

[keishashadow]

Isn't a pat down part of their "serious task at hand?". You seem to be implying that they are taking the TSA away from looking for the real terrorists. Isn't everyone considered a terrorist until the TSA says otherwise? It's a choice they give you, why feel guilty for taking the lesser of two evils?

Whenever I've had one (forced or requested) they didn't tear someone away from an x-ray machine or a scanner, etc. They have people floating that are meant for this. No line got slower because a pat down occurred.

No, i don't believe that the TSA considers everybody to be a potential terrorist. My son is a police officer, my opinions err toward those who try to protect us.

TSA has their methodology in place and it's a challenge to do a diligent job with the tools/funding they are allotted, not to mention dealing with so many requests & distractions. Pat downs are necessary but requesting additional ones for whatever reasons just strains an overloaded system imo.

Unless you have extraordinary powers of perception, I don't know how you'd know if the line behind you didn't back up due to you electing a hand search (since you're effectively out of the loop at that point).

fyi, my comments are based upon frequent travel and increasingly winding up in lines with 'issues'. Everybody has a different perspective, whether based upon X number of flights or anecdotal reports. I'm just trying to point out to those who may not travel frequently that by requesting a hand search they often inconvenience those behind them.

swing awayI've made my point.