Living on food stamps

[anniemck]

I did homeschool my girls for 7 years. What we did when I wanted to teach them about budgeting was actually set them down with my now ex husbands w-2 form from the year before, they had to figure out what was the average biweekly paycheck he received. We also gave them the bills from the prior year... electric/water/phone/internet/cable we did not have vehicle payments. We did have monthly baton lesson's, competition fees and the charges associated. They then would use that information to make a chart for when certain things had to be paid. What I did as well as set them up an account ledger in ms works, from that account ledger they would keep track of how much a deposit was, how much the bill was and then they would know how much was left. They would help with the grocery list as we always menu planned our shopping. When we came home from the store that had to be deducted from the account as well. They used checks from an account we no longer had to write a check for each of the bills, as well as the groceries and gave it to me when it was due.
This helped them a lot to learn not only budgeting, but also check writing, and ledger keeping. To this day all three have their own bank accounts they are 21, 22 and 24 and have never bounced a check... this is an important skill to learn.
To the OP... go for it, do what you want with your unit study, I loved unit studies because of the fact that you could make it your own.
As far as the amount of food stamps for people. I know right now my husband and I receive $200 a month, this works out to be 3.33 per day per person. It is for sure not meant to be the only thing used to buy food for the month. We do our best with it, but here we sit on the 22nd and are out for the month... renewal is on the 3rd. What will we do, lets see... we have a camper we have been pulling apart to scrap, so we have a load of metal now to take to the scrap yard, this will get us about $75. I did work for almost two weeks before they closed the office I was working at, and I get paid on the 25th from that, this will put groceries in the house and gas in the truck. Other than that hubby will be mowing some lawns. We have both been looking for jobs, but they are few and far between where we are. Since the house is paid off and has been for many years, we just can't afford to move either.

 

[tlens]

I guess I missed the sentence where she asked people if this was a good idea or not. She was asking if there was things she wasn't thinking of, not if you approved of her lesson plan.

I personally think this is a great assignment. I take way too much for granted, as do my kids. They simply don't know what it's like to be really hungry and to have to figure out if they buy groceries or pay for heat.

I hope this works out well for your kids (and you too). I really can't think of a whole lot more that you would need. This is probably enough to give them a good idea how hard it can be.

 

[crisi]

I think far too much is made of poverty as a culture, since that tends to refer only to narrow sections of the poor in America (specifically the urban minority poor). And I think a far better lesson is in the sameness - the ways in which poverty looks just like we do - than in the differences. Poverty in America isn't an ethnic or geographic "other" and shouldn't be presented as such; that only reinforces the idea that the poor are different (and by implication inferior) which fosters disdain rather than empathy or compassion.

I think you are making a lot of assumptions. My image of poor is Native American reservations in North Dakota, white kids in first ring suburbs in the Twin Cities, Somali immigrants and rural white poor in Iowa. That is because my brother in law works In Health care for the first, I work with the second in my volunteer life, my mother in law works with the third group, and my aunt spent her life working with the forth.

Since I don't have a lot of experience with "urban minority poor" they don't top my radar. And since I know statistically that its poor white rural people more likely to receive aid than urban black people, I don't make that generalization.

 

[ilovemk76]

I think you are making a lot of assumptions. My image of poor is Native American reservations in North Dakota, white kids in first ring suburbs in the Twin Cities, Somali immigrants and rural white poor in Iowa. That is because my brother in law works In Health care for the first, I work with the second in my volunteer life, my mother in law works with the third group, and my aunt spent her life working with the forth.

Since I don't have a lot of experience with "urban minority poor" they don't top my radar. And since I know statistically that its poor white rural people more likely to receive aid than urban black people, I don't make that generalization.

ITA

The majority of my personal experience has been with Appalachian poor whites, rural poor white and rural poor Mexican immigrants.

That poster is a person who has always lived in or near Detroit. So her experience is what she I'd writing about.

 

[SpartansFan]

Good grief! I cannot believe that this thread is even the tiniest bit controversial. I think that this is a fantastic homeschooling unit, and I can see the practical applications for your children. I don't think it diminishes the experience of those in poverty at all.

I toy with the idea of homeschooling my three, but they are so happy at their Catholic school and that prevents me from pulling them. I know if that ever changed, I would certainly homeschool and then pray hard that I had the patience to endure all that is involved...even attacks by strangers about my academic units.

Good luck!

 

[crisi]

I grew up one step above poverty. I have absolutely zero desire to re-live it or somehow think it is some valuable life lesson for my kids.

Using a budget, yes. The way the op wants to go about it, no.

Good for you. But apparently, SHE thinks it will be a valuable lesson for HER kids. Perhaps HER kids don't have the up close and personal experience to pass along like you have.

My husband grew up IN POVERTY. Its one of the reasons I think its important to expose the kids to it. Because I have zero desire to have them think its "no big deal."

 

[nunzia]

I bet you didnt think you would get some much criticism from this post... I think its an excellent idea. This is a life lesson and more than likely will not learn anything like this school. Ignore all the negativity.

Agreed..a bit surprised by some of the posts here...we were pretty darn poor when my kids were little and even though we were right around that poverty level, (poverty levels are actually fairly high IMO what Americans call poverty is pretty well off in a great deal of the world) we still did fine and all my kids grew up with enough food and a TV and a phone (house phone with a looong cord) and even, eventually, an Atari that I bought by selling stuff at craft fairs and having on layaway for months.

 

[penn19]

I think it sounds like a great idea for you and your kids to do. If nothing else, I would think it would teach them some empathy also? And to me, that is a lesson a lot of people could use (not saying that your kids NEED to learn it).

 

[Granny square]

I think far too much is made of poverty as a culture, since that tends to refer only to narrow sections of the poor in America (specifically the urban minority poor). And I think a far better lesson is in the sameness - the ways in which poverty looks just like we do - than in the differences. Poverty in America isn't an ethnic or geographic "other" and shouldn't be presented as such; that only reinforces the idea that the poor are different (and by implication inferior) which fosters disdain rather than empathy or compassion.

Lol, poverty in this situation is about budgets and choices. There has always and will always be a difference in people based on having and not. Recognition rather than denial allows for informed choices and deliberate action for change.

 

[mrsbornkuntry]

My mother was raised as you were where money was taboo to talk about. They had money and so it wasn't a issue. It did not serve her well to never talk about money. My husbands mother just constantly says they do not have any money but then is whatever she wants and gives outrageous gifts and so her actions are different than her words and so my husband assumed for a long time that when I said we had spent our budge that I had money stashed somewhere and was lying. So he simply continued to spend what he wanted even though I said there was no more to spend. We have been together 12 years and it took a long time for him to realize that I do not stash money in some secret way without telling him. The way his mom talks about money is just as dysfunctional as not talking about it at all.

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I can see where that would be confusing as well.

How frustrating!

We have been guilty of saying we "can't afford" something and found that one of my kids worries far too much about purchases. Now doing a lot of discussion about budgets and "not afford" means not in the budget.

I have had to explain that to my kids, too, especially my 8yo. Just the other day he asked for something and without thinking I said we didn't have the money for that. Then I bought him socks and he said "I thought you didn't have any money" so I had to explain to him that I didn't have any money that wasn't set aside to pay for something specific in the budget. Sometimes I forget that while I've explained this to the older kids before, I haven't explained it to the youngest.

 

[MrsPete]

I'm not sure I really see the point of using a "food stamp" budget for this curriculum,

Well, if you're looking at spending frugally, you have to have some measure for what's "cheap". Do you cut your normal budget by 20%? Slash it in half? I'd assume -- as I think the OP has -- that a food stamp budget should be a minimal amount for a family, and that makes it a good starting point. It makes perfect sense.

Good for you. But apparently, SHE thinks it will be a valuable lesson for HER kids. Perhaps HER kids don't have the up close and personal experience to pass along like you have.

My husband grew up IN POVERTY. Its one of the reasons I think its important to expose the kids to it. Because I have zero desire to have them think its "no big deal."

Makes sense to me. I lived in poverty during my teen years, and I totally agree that it's nothing I wish to revisit. However, I do want my girls to understand that growing up in a middle class home has been a blessing for them, and I want them to understand how to live frugally. Knowing how to pinch pennies can be the difference between going through a rough patch financially and falling into real poverty.

Also, I can remember a few times over their childhoods when they were unappreciative of something, and that hurt me. In those instances, I 've told them how hard it was for me growing up, and it's helped them appreciate what they have. I don't want to hide the concept of poverty from them, and I want them to understand my mindset: Why I am cautious with money, why I search for ways to live frugally when I really don't have to do so.

How frustrating!

We have been guilty of saying we "can't afford" something and found that one of my kids worries far too much about purchases. Now doing a lot of discussion about budgets and "not afford" means not in the budget.

I never really said "can't afford" to our kids. Lots of times we gave them budgets; for example, we'd say, "You have X amount to spend on back-to-school clothes and supplies. You need to buy ___, ____ and ____ with that money, and then you can spend the rest on splurges." Most of the time they've done well with this.

Regardless, sometimes they assumed we "couldn't afford it". For example, we didn't allow our kids to have TVs in their bedrooms. That was a parenting decision that had nothing to do with finances. However, I remember at one point they thought it was about money, and when their grandfather asked them what they wanted for Christmas, they asked for TVs. (No, he didn't buy them.)

Exception: We did talk a great deal about what we could /couldn't afford in regards to college -- after they started high school and were well-grounded in managing budgets for small things.

ITA

The majority of my personal experience has been with Appalachian poor whites, rural poor white and rural poor Mexican immigrants.

That poster is a person who has always lived in or near Detroit. So her experience is what she I'd writing about.

My first-reaction is the same as yours: Appalachian poor whites, Mexican immigrants, other groups in smaller numbers. I know that poor kids do live in urban places, but they aren't my first thought when someone says "poor". Oddly enough, although I am a farm kid myself, I don't tend to think of farm kids as poor -- my family was an exception. Most of the kids with whom I grew up were very comfortable financially, though their families lived frugally.

 

[worm761]

OP, I would love to see what you have come up with as far as lesson plans and objectives. Though, my suggestion would be to use something like this: http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/FoodPlans/2012/CostofFoodNov2012.pdf to make your budget from. It shows the latest data on what a grocery budget looks like if you are thrifty, low cost, moderate and liberal.

I really like the idea of this. And I really like the suggestion of looking at careers and such for pay ideas and then learning to budget from there. This has some very real life application.

 

[kathyinfl]

Granted I have not read every post, but some ideas of what a family earns in food stamps are WAY off.

My cousin's husband lost his job. They immediately qualified for food stamps. They were a family of 7. Taking everything into consideration they were alloted $236/month. That was when their total gross income was around $35,000, take out insurance, taxes, etc and their take home income less than $2,000 a month.

My good friend worked part time as case worker assistant and she said that sometimes senior citezens end up with $26/month.

I think the $4/per person/per day is a huge over estimate.

 

[Colleen27]

I think you are making a lot of assumptions. My image of poor is Native American reservations in North Dakota, white kids in first ring suburbs in the Twin Cities, Somali immigrants and rural white poor in Iowa. That is because my brother in law works In Health care for the first, I work with the second in my volunteer life, my mother in law works with the third group, and my aunt spent her life working with the forth.

Since I don't have a lot of experience with "urban minority poor" they don't top my radar. And since I know statistically that its poor white rural people more likely to receive aid than urban black people, I don't make that generalization.

What I said certainly won't hold true for everyone, but flip through this thread... The "image" that came to mind for most posters who commented about food stamps and lifestyle involved things like nice TVs, video game systems, manicures, etc. The stereotypes of urban poverty.

I don't think exercises in budgeting and living frugally are a bad thing. I don't think using food stamp allotments as a jumping off point is either, though I think there are more realistic/comprehensive measures that would work better (like a previous poster's mock budget based on prevailing wages). But I think the idea of a food stamp budget as a cultural experience is a stretch because poverty isn't a culture; it is an economic condition that is experienced very differently by people of different regions, cultures, and backgrounds.

 

[MomToOne]

OP, I would love to see what you have come up with as far as lesson plans and objectives. Though, my suggestion would be to use something like this: http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/FoodPlans/2012/CostofFoodNov2012.pdf to make your budget from. It shows the latest data on what a grocery budget looks like if you are thrifty, low cost, moderate and liberal.

Apparently I'm much more than "thrifty" I just increased my grocery budget for DD12 and myself to $200/month, and I think that's living crazy large LOL I guess they need to add a "downright cheap" category to the chart for people like me

But honestly, we eat fine so I'm not sure what people spend that much money on My budget doesn't include paper or cleaning products, but even if I added those in, I wouldn't come up to the thrifty level. I buy a lot of store brands, and we eat mainly chicken for meat just because it's easy to cook (I'm a working single Mom) and reasonably healthy. But we also eat steak, fish, etc. - a fairly normal diet, although not too much prepared stuff (not healthy and I can usually make something better tasting cheaper). I'm in Northern California, so nothing is cheap, although in-season produce is a good deal since we're near the heart of California's growing region and I focus heavily on that. I use coupons here and there but nothing significant, and the only sales I really chase are on meat.

So what the heck is everyone buying that I'm not???? I can't imagine spending $300+ on groceries in a month - we'd be swimming in food!

 

[Colleen27]

How frustrating!

We have been guilty of saying we "can't afford" something and found that one of my kids worries far too much about purchases. Now doing a lot of discussion about budgets and "not afford" means not in the budget.

I have that issue with one of mine too, and she can really make me nuts at times because she doesn't seem to "get" that it is a question of priorities, and that when I say "We can't afford to get take-out tonight" I don't literally mean we don't have the $30 lying around. So I've started having her sit in on some of our budget conversations and help a little more with the meal planning - she's been my kitchen helper for years but now she's in on checking out the sales and flipping through recipes too.

 

[pocomom]

OP, I would love to see what you have come up with as far as lesson plans and objectives. Though, my suggestion would be to use something like this: http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/FoodPlans/2012/CostofFoodNov2012.pdf to make your budget from. It shows the latest data on what a grocery budget looks like if you are thrifty, low cost, moderate and liberal.

I really like the idea of this. And I really like the suggestion of looking at careers and such for pay ideas and then learning to budget from there. This has some very real life application.

Thanks for the link, that is awesome! We had a great conversation this morning and that data will be excellent to use and follow up our conversation with!

 

[fall08CP]

This entire thread is ridiculous and reeks of middle class privilege. I understand what OP is trying to teach her kids, but it's impossible to throw in all of the variables that a low-income family faces. Anybody who has replied talking about how they easily spend under the food stamp $$ shame on you! I dare you to walk a mile in a poor person's shoes.

Poverty isn't about lack of money, is truly a cultural phenomenon. You need to erase every ounce of knowledge about nutrition in your brain. Get rid of your pots, pans, ovens, stove top, blenders, food processors, and toasters. Now work 16 hours a day and raise 3 kids on your own. If you're lucky enough to have a college education, you're paying a good chunk of your salary towards your loans. You don't have a car and most impoverished areas don't have a grocery store within a mile, so you're forced to grocery shop at 7-11. You basically easy out of cans and bags, because you don't have the equipment or time to cook. You don't have health insurance or internet because you're pinching every last penny. Most food pantries, if you're lucky enough to have one within walking distance or the bus line, only allow customers to be served twice a year.

These are the people I serve everyday. These stories are the norm, not the exception. Until you've experienced poverty, it's impossible to understand the importance of cultural capital. Have you ever actually applied for SNAP? When I was going through a rough time, I applied to see just how hard it was. Despite qualifying for the full amount, it took 11 months to receive my first benefits! They don't have a phone # or email so you have to keep taking days off work to show up at DSS and hope your caseworker is in. If he/she had the day off, they won't serve you and you've wasted a work day. It SUCKS.

Not every school has free/reduced lunch, and a good number of kids are toO embarrassed to accept it. I never attended a school that served meals, and honestly thought that was a regional thing

 

[pocomom]

This sort of unit works great for homeschooling. Practical problem solving and use if math in real life is a skill that is lacking in society. Similar to graduates who can't compose a simple ofc memo.

In our state you can show progress through a portfolio review which this could easily pass if done well or through a standardized test which tests on skills that could easily be interjected into the program. I'm assuming the op knows the standards in her state.

We make and submit a portfolio each year. A certified teacher reviews it, interviews the kids and I, and submits her approval ketter along with our portfolio, and daily log. We also participate in the statewide standardized tests. My 11 year old is actually in 6th grade but now doing at least 7th grade work in all subject areas except writing. She is also taking basic Latin and Greek to help with vocabularly later on. Her spelling and handwriting are awful, which we are working on, but the schools never stressed it here, and it is her challenge area. She reads above a 9th grade level. My 7 year old is in 2nd grade. She didn't take to reading right away, but she is amazing at just being able to see how things get put together. When she was 4 she got a real set of tools and she is always helping me by putting together the kids toys and things. Our main goal this year was simply to get her to love reading. She picked up Harry Potter over Christmas on her own. She is a Math Wiz and just seems to be able to see the answer. When I asked them how much our budget would be if we stuck to $4 a person a day she correctly answered $140 a week, but I was asking her older sister, they aren't supposed to do multiplication here until third, and certainly not two step multiplication in her head. She still struggles with writing her numbers and letters backwards though so we are always looking for new ways for her to practice!

My folks didn't talk about money, and the only thing school taught me was about different types of life insurance in business law. I didn't even know how to to write a check when I graduated. When my brother got a credit card with a $500 limit he thought the credit card company gave you $500 to spend ... and he spent it!

 

[MomToOne]

This entire thread is ridiculous and reeks of middle class privilege. I understand what OP is trying to teach her kids, but it's impossible to throw in all of the variables that a low-income family faces. Anybody who has replied talking about how they easily spend under the food stamp $$ shame on you! I dare you to walk a mile in a poor person's shoes.

Maybe I missed it, but I read the whole thread and didn't see anyone say the foodstamp amounts should be lowered. But for just the reasons you pointed out, it's not really much of a "challenge" for the OPs family to try and live on the maximum or even average food stamp amount. As a (presumably) middle-class family, with access to easy transportation, good grocery stores, coupons, a fully stocked pantry and the like, I think the posters were pointing out that living on less isn't difficult at all, many of us in fact do it regularly.

Not every school has free/reduced lunch, and a good number of kids are toO embarrassed to accept it. I never attended a school that served meals, and honestly thought that was a regional thing

Free lunch does not seem to have the stigma it had in the past. When my daughter transitioned to public school this year, so many kids were on free lunch that she thought lunch was free to everyone until I set her straight. In her school, over 60% of the kids are on free lunch. That's typical of our entire district. The schools demand all families fill out the application form, even if they know they don't qualify, so they can ensure they get all of the kids that do qualify into the program.

The free lunch program is a National program: http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/lunch/. While schools don't have to participate, I don't know a public school that doesn't. I'm sure there are some out there, but I haven't come across any.

My daughter's middle school even has a free after school program, that includes a snack right after school, and what they call a "supper snack" at 5pm to help out the kids that might not get dinner at home. There isn't any income eligibility or free lunch status required - all kids in the program get them. All the kids are expected to join the group at the snack times, although they don't have to take the food, so that no one feels bad about it.