Little confused about the complaints about price hiking

[hardis5]

Disney (just slow to catch-on to the trend) is follow a textbook price discrimination model that sees them continually increase their prices until the competition reacts to impact or consumers react to becoming resistant to buy at the prices Disney is offering, there-by impacting the revenue per client/visitor/sailing.

Until they start to see reservation volume slow down (due to higher prices) or the competition directly attack their bread and butter target market (families willing to spend $ or repeat clients - think of another cruise line offering specials for repeats clients of Disney), I expect prices to continue to climb wherever they can.

Till then, we can all grumble and complain but most of us will continue to pay the premium they charge until each persons personal point they can no longer rationalize or justify the premium paid, is passed.

 

[ChicosWife]

So maybe its more because we sail in the "off-season" my opinion my be skewed. But the fact of the matter is Disney Cruise Line is a business and every business is there to make money, food costs are rising, transportation costs are rising, and even every little(H2O isn't cheap ) cost could be rising plus stock holders need to make money.

Now regardless of rising costs and keeping up with inflation(~2% generally a year) if the prices stayed the same they would start earning less money year over year, most businesses earn more year over year(they set their goals accordingly). Regardless the ships are still sailing full even with prices hikes and complaints about alcohol(we enjoyed this but we drink what we bring on and what the ship has to offer, so weren't very effected).

I understand people want to voice their opinions and they are entitled to due so, it just gets frustrating when people completely avoid the fact that DCL is a business; they were created to make money. Obviously they offer exceptional service and you get what you pay for. We want to go to Alaska on DCL but they priced us out because they can, which is why GT rates exist. If they price enough people out to where they cannot reach a certain capacity they rather fill the rooms then let them go empty(this is becoming more rare in peak seasons even with rising prices). Also they are definitely raising prices around peak times more so then they were before, that is just good business and how the hospitality industry works.

Does the company you work for raise their prices year over year? If they didn't and had to lay people off to stay a float or do it because they are not meeting sales targets would you be happy?

Just needed to vent because I rarely ever see this mentioned for DCL or the parks for that matter.

I agree with you for the most part. I see a lot of "rants" on here about DCL, but no matter what, Disney has what no one else does... Disney! Other cruise lines/theme parks have similar products to offer, but it is not Disney and will never be Disney and everyone involved knows it. Yes, it's a shame that, due to budgetary restrictions, not everyone will be able to afford a Disney experience and that is unfortunate. For those that leave DCL to go to other cruise lines, that just means that they found value in something that isn't Disney, and that's okay too. For us, we are doing DCL for our children, while they are still young enough to appreciate the "magic" involved with Disney, and to which, we have found no where else.

Bottom Line = You get what you pay for, and what we are paying for is the unique Disney magic/experience.

JMHO

 

[texas disney mom]

"but I think everyone on this board is a capitalist" - you make a very generic assumption about everyone on here.

I am starting an argument by discussing exactly what you stated? "But people can also talk about a business and discuss its cost structure and discuss what they want to do with their money. You seem bothered by that discussion." I am so bothered by it that I openly discuss it in the post you replied to, the whole reason for this thread was to talk about the pricing from a business perspective not a personal once because I do not try to speak for everyone. I also wrote not related to your post specifically about the fuel prices since others have mentioned it in the thread; I stated what companies with huge fuel costs do. They pay the same price for fuel over a period of time through a contract to avoid fluctuating prices, some companies win and some companies lose with that strategy; I gave an example with southwest.

"Why do you care if people discuss whether or not they think dcl is too expensive?" As stated I am trying to shine a different perspective on the subject avoiding anything about a posters personal beliefs or personal situation; something you cannot seem to do.

"Because if you do a little research you will see that fuel prices have gone down drastically and that business are generally not passing that savings on to their customers." Sounds like you should read what I wrote and do a little research yourself, large companies do not pay market prices for fuel.

This is one article about companies not passing on savings to customers. There are many many more. My husband works for a company that is making huge profits because of low oil prices but has not changed their prices for customers. I think it is okay for people to be aware of what they are paying for and to discuss whether or not they want to pay it.
http://fortune.com/2015/01/22/airlines-are-passing-fuel-savings-on-to-shareholders-not-customers/

 

[hardis5]

Do airline ticket prices fluctuate with the cost of fuel? Generally they don't and probably never will...

I'd have to disagree. When fuel prices rise, the airlines (at least in Canada) are quick to add fuel surcharges to cover their additional costs short-term that get baked into the base fare over time. Grumblings up here is since the drop of oil, there has not been any corresponding drop in airfares. Our domestic airlines have come out and said in a round about way, don't expect lower fares because their costs have dropped due to lower fuel prices. Collusion? To a degree yes but without the companies needing to agree or meet on - because company A does not drop their fares, there is no incentive for company B to drop theirs. They all maintain higher margins and the public pays the price.

 

[cgolf]

"but I think everyone on this board is a capitalist" - you make a very generic assumption about everyone on here.

I am starting an argument by discussing exactly what you stated? "But people can also talk about a business and discuss its cost structure and discuss what they want to do with their money. You seem bothered by that discussion." I am so bothered by it that I openly discuss it in the post you replied to, the whole reason for this thread was to talk about the pricing from a business perspective not a personal once because I do not try to speak for everyone. I also wrote not related to your post specifically about the fuel prices since others have mentioned it in the thread; I stated what companies with huge fuel costs do. They pay the same price for fuel over a period of time through a contract to avoid fluctuating prices, some companies win and some companies lose with that strategy; I gave an example with southwest.

"Why do you care if people discuss whether or not they think dcl is too expensive?" As stated I am trying to shine a different perspective on the subject avoiding anything about a posters personal beliefs or personal situation; something you cannot seem to do.

"Because if you do a little research you will see that fuel prices have gone down drastically and that business are generally not passing that savings on to their customers." Sounds like you should read what I wrote and do a little research yourself, large companies do not pay market prices for fuel.

The problem with a discussion from this standpoint is that there really isn't a discussion, because DCL is a business and they can do whatever they want with the price and the product. Now we can talk about what could happen in the future if they out price the market and the ships don't sail as full, or people that paid opening day prices get upset by the discounted prices offered after the POF date that are substantially less then what they paid.

Also at some point they may drive away enough repeat cruisers and the first time market dries up at the price point they set and they have to scramble to get their old base back, but that base may have moved on and found something they like more and not want to come back.

DCL was very smart to stay at 4 ships, because unlike other lines they only have to worry about filling and staffing 4 ships, not 10+. Because they have so few ships I really think it is going to be a while before they hit a price ceiling. Will be interesting to watch and follow the changes and maybe swoop in and get a good deal in the future

 

[Joel0917]

I once bought premium milk. My kids liked it and I felt good about. But then that premium milk went up at first a quarter and I bought it, then a dollar and I sighed and bought and then it doubled. I paused and though how is the store brand milk. It was half the price. Would my kids like it? Would they think different of me. I bought it. Brought home. And the kids drank it. And didn't complain. Tasted the same. Didn't have the pretty cow on it. I didn't see ads for it on tv or billboards about it. But we enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed the once premium milk.

I'm sure people buy that premium milk that didn't know it doubled in price the past few years. They see the ads and are buying milk that their kids will love them for. But in time...

 

[jahber]

I once bought premium milk. My kids liked it and I felt good about. But then that premium milk went up at first a quarter and I bought it, then a dollar and I sighed and bought and then it doubled. I paused and though how is the store brand milk. It was half the price. Would my kids like it? Would they think different of me. I bought it. Brought home. And the kids drank it. And didn't complain. Tasted the same. Didn't have the pretty cow on it. I didn't see ads for it on tv or billboards about it. But we enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed the once premium milk.

I'm sure people buy that premium milk that didn't know it doubled in price the past few years. They see the ads and are buying milk that their kids will love them for. But in time...

Exactly. The smart shopper will notice the price increase and investigate other options if they are uncomfortable with the price. Sometimes the premium brand is still the best (i.e. I personally don't use generic toilet paper. My kids use tp like it's going out of style, so they get Scott tissue.). Sometimes, though, the cheaper option is as good or better. And when that is the case, I tell people. A lot. And loudly, when it's a really good deal.

That's what's happening in so many of these threads, indirectly. People are frustrated about prices (really really ridiculous prices--let's be honest) and people are coming back telling them that there is a whole world outside of Disney. We used to be flat-out shut down when we talked about other lines--shut out by people who never actually SAILED those lines! But now...now people are coming back in bigger and bigger numbers with stories of amazing cruises on other lines. Why do we share this? Because 1) we want people to know that they can still have fun vacations if they can't afford DCL anymore (or don't want to pay their prices) and 2) because DCL could do BETTER than what they are doing now. They could treat their loyal customers better. They could try just a wee bit not to look so greedy and increase prices by *quite* so much each year. You know, throw us a bone. Because like so many of us here, I looooooove DCL. Love it. If they lowered their prices back to reasonable fares, I'd book in a hot minute.

And like sweetpee, I'm kinda hurt that they honestly don't care even a tiny bit about taking away the magic and increasing prices. They flat out told people in emails that it doesn't matter because "there's magic in the Disney name"!!!!!!! There aren't enough exclamation marks to emphasize the hubris in that statement. (And as a side note, I fully realize how ridiculous it is to let a company hurt my feelings. That's a perfect demonstration of the power DCL has over us. And they are abusing that power.)

 

[southerngirl528]

My question to the OP and others who have joined on his/her bandwagon is why are you trying to shut down conversation about Disney pricing? Are you trying to impose a kind of censorship? Because no one is forcing you to read certain threads. I do not read the majority of the threads on the dis. I dont care what people bring up. Have at it I say. Freedom.

Your quote above sounds to me like you are wanting to censor anyone that has opposing views to your own. Don't BOTH you and the OP have the "freedom" to express your opinions? No one is forcing you to read this thread either. Perhaps you didn't mean your post to come across as such, but when I read your post it seemed to me you were the one trying to start an argument. Just sayin'…….

As for fuel prices, if the theory that because oil prices have dropped any transportation/service that uses fuel should now have lower prices then why on earth are air fares so doggoned high of late? And having had family in the petroleum industry at a retail level I can tell you for certain that somewhere between the oil fields and the retailers there is an enormous amount of markup at each passing of the fuels.

And to Homie wanna liv, I personally appreciated a different perspective from the numerous threads with opposing viewpoints on this topic.

 

[Sytrace]

Look, as a Disney shareholder of course part of me feels like "Go get 'em, boys! Make all that money!!!" LOL! And I agree, it's a business first so if someone is willing to pony-up why take less money if you don't have to? No, Disney has no problem filling those rooms. Good on 'em. I get that. Completely.

As a consumer and avid fan I feel quite different. We only sail in the off-season. Current & future pricing are simply stupid. Stupid. As @bumbershoot said, it feels like a straight up insult. Much like @bumbershoot 's example, I've watched the price for the exact same room on the exact same ship at the exact same time of year go up by $1k EACH YEAR for 2 years. And it's only a 4-night cruise! The rate of price increase is considerably more than inflation as well outpaces the competition by a huge margin. During this time there are little changes and things taken away while prices go through the roof. The ships are moving towards having more similarities than differences. The shows, menus, activities, and ports stay mostly the same (unless more Frozen garbage is being rammed down our throats...um...no thanks). Disney wants me to pay them a premium for what? Characters? Brand immersion? Really? Tell me what makes Disney special above and beyond what other cruise lines are doing? Is it soda? I don't even drink soda! An adult can drink unlimited soda on other lines for a week for roughly $50 but the price difference is so much more than that. So what is the value that I get for that premium price???? Currently, I don't see it. At all. Other lines are cranking out new, innovative ships visiting a variety of ports. I have been on Royal Caribbean & Norwegian. I didn't notice the service, cleanliness, or overall quality being all that different. Each line has their pros & cons, Disney included. The only thing that Disney has in their favor in my eyes that other lines don't is branding & characters. But then other lines are more diverse with exciting features Disney doesn't have....all for a lot less money.

I'll be clear. If I felt that I was receiving a premium product I would have zero problem paying a premium price. It's all about value. If Disney wants to command a premium they should stop making moves to be within the industry standards. If you want to be average then I want to pay you accordingly. Wow me. Impress me. Do something that raises the bar. Mediocrity is not worth a premium.

Why am I even using words like "standard" or "mediocrity" when discussing Disney at all?!?! Ugh! That's mind-boggling to me!

I won't pay more to get less.

Am I mad? In a way, yes! It's in no way enjoyable to see the object of my inner-fan-gurl rear its ugly head. And it does feel ugly to me. I am insulted. I don't enjoy feeling like my devotion is expendable. I have sung the praises. I have been the diehard cheerleader. Now I feel like a fool for it. I don't like feeling like Mickey's greedy hands are raiding my pockets shamelessly. I know it's a business and its not personal but that's how it feels. In the spirit of honesty, I'll get down to it: I feel like the fine fellow that I believed in with my whole heart is perfectly happy to rip me off. He'll laugh his endearing little laugh while he does it. It hurts my heart, makes me angry. When I think about it, my heels dig in deeper and I'm more determined than ever to not be taken for a fool.

Disney wants to touch a personal nerve with the nostalgia so here's the personal nerve. Only it's not their goal nerve at all anymore. Can't have your cake & eat it too. Disney wants to get personal so here it is. Honest and to the nitty-gritty.

I'll even go a step further with my honesty. I could go to work at any time with a solid Disney-specialized travel agency, an agency I care very much about on a very personal level. Why don't I? Because I do NOT believe in what I'd be selling anymore. If nothing else in this world I pride myself in my honor. I would not be okay pushing a product I believe is overpriced for what it is. That fact irritates me even more because I don't want to be jaded like this! I'd be much happier if I was still enamored of Disney Cruise Lines!

I swear, if it wasn't for my friends who I adore, I'd be done. They still love it all and are fully onboard so I sail with them. It's getting harder and harder to justify even that, though. It's quite the dilemma for me. Truly. This constant teetering of the scales between what my heart wants to simply love and the knowledge that it's not a financially valuable thing....the fluctuation between head & heart....it wears on me.

And I *pray* Disney reads this. I *pray* that what people say about Disney paying attention to what is being discussed on Dis is true.

Before I hop off my soap-box, I feel its only fair to throw out a disclaimer: my sons are both aged out of the youth programs. They're both in that odd no-man's-land caught between a dedicated cruise experience with peers and the full adult-side experience. I don't know that with the current fleet there's a lot more Disney can even do for that age group. But, imagine being 18-20....consider what Disney offers and contrast that with all the innovative, exciting offerings on the new mega-liners rolling into service elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, my boys do love Disney. Nostalgia. And they appreciate all our amazing adventures. But, when I put myself in their shoes and imagine their cruise experience, other lines have a lot more to offer. A lot more. If I still had kids in the youth programs my whole opinion might be different because of the value in giving them that Disney experience. Where our family is right now Disney simply isn't the best option.

I believe Disney could do & be so much more. It feels like they're content to sit back, rest on their laurels, and keep raking in the $$ by twisting heartstrings with nostalgia. That disappoints me. They were once known for their innovation and quality. Once upon a time...... (((((sigh)))))

Sweetpee....AMEN!!! And I could not have written it better myself. I am also having some doubts about selling what I don't believe in anymore. Number one cheerleader and all that aside...I am starting to feel like an idiot for drinking the Kool aid for so long.

 

[texas disney mom]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...-replacing-them-with-cheaper-foreign-workers/
Here is another reason many are questioning DCL prices.

 

[lisamarie12]

I don't begrudge Disney for wanting to make $$, its the American way. But they are out of my price range and I wish they weren't. As far as the inflation, I keep hearing our government stating that there is no (or almost no) inflation, or at least that is the justification for nearly non-existent cost of living adjustments for the past 6 years (including nothing last year) but prices are going up. LOL. That is my job and not DCL, but I still hate to be priced out of things. I don't bash them but I don't think they will be on my radar for future cruises merely because they are out of my price range- even splurge range. That is unfortunate because DD and I are Disney fanatics and DD is a magic age where she will still appreciate it. But it is what it is.

 

[eskimoinparadise]

Everything is more expensive. In the past five years Big Mac up 29.5%, Coffee 27%, Bacon 67.8%, Eggs 30.3%, Ground Beef 39.5% and Milk 21%

$100 in 1998 - when Disney started sailing - in todays money is $144.79

Everything is more expensive, you get less for your money.

Beef is up because of pervasive drought and re-purposing of feed stock for ethanol production; Coffee is up because of "fair trade" movement; pork products are up because of swine flu; eggs are up because of avian flu; milk is up because of pervasive drought. And from 2009, the dollar is only up 8.4%

What natural disaster, economic inversion, or viral infection caused Disney's price increases?

 

[ZephyrHawk]

I'm not angry at DCL for increasing their prices. I understand why they're doing it completely.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to pay more to them when I can get pretty much the same exact cruise much cheaper from another line.

 

[hardis5]

What natural disaster, economic inversion, or viral infection caused Disney's price increases?

A widespread case of Disneifanaticus I believe. We will all pay what we feel is reasonable to a point. Those more enamored or with personal justifications will accept more so than others, but I know of few that like to pay more for the same (or less with some perks disappearing).

On the sidebar topic of food price increases, they have perfected the practice of hidden price increases (smaller packing at the same price when they cannot get away with same size package price increases) and then cyclically will offer "bonus sizes" to differentiate themselves until all do the same and then one will up-size the package for a price increase and the cycle repeats itself.

Other cruise lines offer OBC's, beverage packages, upgraded restaurant packages, free internet, class upgrades, etc. to sweeten their offerings beyond adjusting their prices to reflect a competitive market. Disney offers OBC/discounts to repeat clients under the pressure of so doing while on-board and GT rates given a cruise has higher than acceptable availability close to the sailing date while seemingly largely increasing prices with each new release.

I wonder what Disney will do when they see the point where they feel their prices have reach a place that impacts their bookings/profitability? I cannot see them reducing prices without there being an significant industry impact (i.e. multiple cases of ship board illness that start to make headlines) or economic event (i.e. prolonged or severe recession). Will we see some perks reappear to once again differentiate themselves or sell (have felt) as a bonus? Will they offer some perks that have a cost now (photo package credit, spa credit)?

 

[eskimoinparadise]

I'm not angry at DCL for increasing their prices. I understand why they're doing it completely.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to pay more to them when I can get pretty much the same exact cruise much cheaper from another line.

True. DCL prices the way they do because they know they have a completely (and infinitely) replaceable audience, and churn rates are irrelevant. One look at their loyalty program compared to virtually any other cruise line convinces me that their focus has never been on the repeat cruiser. Raising prices while simultaneously lowering expectations tends to move the repeat cruiser away. According to CLIA, the more often you cruise on a line the less you tend to spend once on board. Newbies on the other hand tend to be cash cows.

 

[SonicGuy]

Beef is up because of pervasive drought and re-purposing of feed stock for ethanol production; Coffee is up because of "fair trade" movement; pork products are up because of swine flu; eggs are up because of avian flu; milk is up because of pervasive drought. And from 2009, the dollar is only up 8.4%

What natural disaster, economic inversion, or viral infection caused Disney's price increases?

You don't think Disney uses beef, coffee, pork. eggs, and milk?

 

[eskimoinparadise]

You don't think Disney uses beef, coffee, pork. eggs, and milk?

Not any more than any other cruise line, And, per CLIA, the average spend for food per passenger per day in the industry is around $10. So on a 7 night cruise for two adults, the food cost to the cruise line is around $140-$150. The rise in costs that the poster used as a rationalization are fully explainable by conditions beyond the direct control of the farmer/rancher. Inflation is only up 8.4% in the last six years. Disney's prices have more than doubled. Doubtful there's any cause and effect at all in those comparisons.

 

[SonicGuy]

But that is just the beginning of a long line of items that are increasing in cost. If DCL is expected to contribute a certain margin toward the corporation, then they have to maintain those percentages by raising prices. IF they can do so without effecting occupancy rates (which obviously they can) then more power to them. For every one family on here that is "done with DCL" they obviously have another family lined up. I can also guarantee that when (not if) the situation arises that DCL has to incentivize cruisers with "specials" or increased benefits, those same "done with DCL" families will be right back in line to book.

 

[texas disney mom]

But that is just the beginning of a long line of items that are increasing in cost. If DCL is expected to contribute a certain margin toward the corporation, then they have to maintain those percentages by raising prices. IF they can do so without effecting occupancy rates (which obviously they can) then more power to them. For every one family on here that is "done with DCL" they obviously have another family lined up. I can also guarantee that when (not if) the situation arises that DCL has to incentivize cruisers with "specials" or increased benefits, those same "done with DCL" families will be right back in line to book.

Not all of their costs are increasing. Fuel costs are dramatically down. Looks like they are also finding a variety of ways to reduce labor costs. It sounds like what is happening is they are just raising costs to raise costs. Which obviously they have a right to do. Just as customers can discuss and ask questions about what dcl is doing and why, who is benefiting, and what it means on a personal level.

 

[eskimoinparadise]

But that is just the beginning of a long line of items that are increasing in cost. If DCL is expected to contribute a certain margin toward the corporation, then they have to maintain those percentages by raising prices. IF they can do so without effecting occupancy rates (which obviously they can) then more power to them. For every one family on here that is "done with DCL" they obviously have another family lined up. I can also guarantee that when (not if) the situation arises that DCL has to incentivize cruisers with "specials" or increased benefits, those same "done with DCL" families will be right back in line to book.

Costs are rising for all cruise lines at presumably the same rate. Prices we pay on RCL over the last five years are within 15-20% of what we paid in 2010. (We always book the same cruises for the same weeks on the same ships each year) Prices we pay for Disney cruises over the same period have doubled. Not a function of supplies cost.