List of cuts, changes, and closures now online

[wdwguide]

Dear fellow DIS'ers!

I have posted a list of most of the cuts and changes that have been
implemented at Walt Disney World recently, both before and after September
11. I thought this may be a helpful reference and useful tool for rumor
control.
At this point, the list is not complete, and not entirely verified (or
spell-checked - sorry in advance for the typos), so please e-mail me if you
have additional information or corrections.

To see the list, go to http://www.destinationwdw.com , and click on the FAQs
link in the menu frame.

Thank you!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Thank you wdwguide!! It looks as though we finally 'smoked Ei$ner out'!!

The prosecution rests!!

 

[space42]

Boy, it sure is depressing seeing all of the cutbacks listed out like that.

I still cannot believe they closed the COP during a cellibration about Walt Disney!!! We all knew its days were numbered, but I thought that it would be safe at least until the cellibration was over. I was looking foward to riding it during my upcomming December trip.

 

[wdwguide]

space42,

I agree with you - CoP was not supposed to close until January 2003 at the earlist. The Discover the Stories Behind the Magic kiosks at the MK, for instance, feature the CoP quite prominently as say something like "... was moved to the Magic Kingdom, where you can still see it today".

 

[TXDeb]

Now, I'm even more depressed

I can't believe that they have already closed CoP.
I knew that it was coming, but DD and I love that ride.
It reminds us of Walt.
One of the things we were really looking forward to in Dec.
was riding it again to help celebrate Walt's 100th birthday.

I don't even want to go in December anymore.

 

[HBK]

I don't even want to go in December anymore.

Another satisfied customer....


Seriously, why would anyone want to make a trip to WDW right now? What is the Disney company doing to MAKE you want to go?

 

[wdwguide]

Chad,

I respect your opinion, but I believe that by unconditionally accepting Walt Disney World's policy changes would be a mistake. I cannot and would not advise people to cancel their trips in light of the most recent in a series of cuts that have been going on and complained about for years, but they should definitely respond in a way that makes Disney understand that these changes are being noticed, and the way they are implemented is not appreciated.

An appropriate way to deal with these changes would have been to inform guests about them ahead of time instead of simply implementing them without advance warning. Is this practice legitimate? Yes! Is it smart? No, because it will have a tremendous backlash as millions of paying guests realize that some of the much-hyped benefits they were expecting simply do not exist any more. And that will cause ireeperable harm in the long term. Disney has received quite a bit, and probably too much negative press in recent years, and they have lost much of the unconditional acceptance of the high quality of their brand. We fans, supporters, critics, and observers need to be sure to let Disney know that they cannot cut too deep into guest programs, or they risk losing much more than they could possibly save.

Finally, I will use unusually strong language and claim that the closing of CoP, one of very few attractions at Walt Disney World personally designed by Walt Disney, during the 100 Years of Magic Celebration is nothing but DISGUSTINGLY TASTELESS; a poor move that I hope will be reversed very quickly. It is simply not appropriate to celebrate Walt Disney's birthday by closing his attractions at the same time.

Anyway, I realize that my list, which I have puposely published without comment or bias, can be used in ways for which it was not intended, which includes "Disney bashing". The list is there for one sole reason, and that is to allow every reader to form their own opinion about what these changes mean to her or him, and to help them plan their trips accordingly.

 

[hopemax]

Come on. In light of everything which has gone on lately, these changes are nothing...what, with the rest of the entire business world make cuts, layoffs, etc. (including the entertainment world) and Disney is not allowed to do the same...

Disney is allowed to do the same, but my patience was already thin and I just don't care anymore. In many ways Disney reminds me of the "Boy who cried Wolf." The last 5 years or so has been extremely sucessful financially, but how many years has the 20K lagoon sat empty, how long has the Skyway been closed, why was Beastly Kingdom not announced sooner or built to begin with? There are just so many things that Disney has done before, that now that the "wolf" has arrived, I'm not going to rush out and help. They used up all their "good will" with me already.

I can live without WDW. It takes me the same travel time to fly to Orlando as it does to travel to Tokyo, and I've priced it and it's about the same. Yes, there are still many, many reasons to go to WDW, but you know what? There are many, many reasons to travel somewhere else too!

 

[JeffJewell]

frustration that we are so self-centered and micromanaging that we refuse to allow Disney to make any change

...I'm mostly cranky about the specific nature of certain of the cuts, not about the business truth that there must be financially oriented responses to the economy. The EE in particular seems to be a poor target for a budget cut.

the only way to save it all is to GO TO WDW

I agree with you, and I again find my still scheduled December trip of use as a data point that I am, in fact, using my own disposable income toward the greater good of the Disney Company. My complaint is not completely self-centered (although I must point out that my fully planned and PSed December trip is now in flux at best, upheaval at worst), it is Disney's success-centered.

protesting these relatively minor cuts in the big picture will only lead to more cuts

I intend my own protests to be specific to certain cuts, and the likely effect those cuts will have.

At this time of year, shorter evening park hours were nicely offset for onsite guests by Surprise Mornings. Disney allegiance or no, the current absence of Surprise Mornings has to be seen as a discouragement from travelling right now, or at least as one less point of distinguishment of Disney resorts from non-Disney alternatives; one fewer compelling reason to stay on-site.

Personally, I'm not saying we should boycott Disney because of the cuts, I'm saying we should not be surprised if this specific cut results in a delay of some families' Disney vacations, and more choices of cheaper non-Disney hotel alternatives for those vacations that still occur relatively as scheduled.

In other words, I believe that at least this one particular cut will only lead to more of the same problems, and therefore, directly lead to even more cuts.

Jeff

PS: Even if you lop off an hour and a half or so of every park's hours, EE is a solid selling point for staying on-site, particularly for the Values and particularly for this time of year. Hell, cut all regular hours and extend the one EE park an _extra_ hour: an overall cut of two park hours worth of staffing, but it makes on-site stays for travel in the immediate future more attractive.

Making travel more attractive right _now_ is Disney's responsiblity, it is not the responsibility of any consumer to help carry this or that company through any economic hardship.

PPS: I agree with the stated sentiment that losing the Carousel of Progress, should that end up being really what has happened, was a vile thing to let happen during the "Walt" celebration.

 

[All Aboard]

JJ, this weekend I've been agreeing with just about every post you've made. Which is quite the departure from the All Star thread . With respect to the above post, I agree completely. Especially EE.

Cutting back Hunchback from 5 shows to 4, fine. It wasn't coming close to filling anyway. Same with many of the other shows. An hour of MK lost, I can deal with that. Opening World Showcase an hour later, maybe. But, cutting 3 hours out of Future World, eliminating EE, shuttering COP. And ALL of it happening at the same time!?!

There is a point at which WDW goes too far. In my opinion they've reached it. And I really fear that it will continue to get worse. This is not the way to attract guests right now. Especially the best informed guests out there.

Seems the vast majority of DIS'ers agree:

Link to Poll

PS, Jeff I tried to change reservations to either the weekend of the 1st or 8th. Guess what - All Stars are booked both Saturday nights. Hmmm, good thing they cancelled MK EE since it won't be necessary.

 

[Testtrack321]

Luckaly I got to see CoP my last visit.

You never realize how much you love something untill it is gone.

 

[disneyking]

Our trip is coming up next Thursday, Oct 25th. I have just learned that there is a high potential that my Hoop dee doo show scheduled for the 29th may be cancelled. Yes that's right cancelled. I have been on the phone all day with central reservations, dining reservations, etc. complaining and trying to get information. It seems that there are in fact plans to cancel some of the 9:30 PM shows (Confirmed by a reservation supervisor at WDW-DINE). It is utter chaos there. Nothing has been properly communicated to the reservationist. They are as frustrated as we are. I have just penned and sent a letter to Michael Eisner, Roy E. Disney, Paul Pressler and Al Weiss. I also sent an email copy to guest relations. I have no hope of a response prior to my departure this week. I am sick of being treated this way. I have spent over $3300 dollars already on this vacation and I am sure we will spend in excess of $1000 more once we get there. I have been treated like some scum today on the phone, not at all like a high dollar paying customer or even a "guest". It is time for all to take action. posted on this board are the addresses for the Disney execs responsible for this mess. If you don't let them know how you feel, the "Magic" will disappear forever. Once it is gone, it is gone forever. And we all will be responsible for letting them kill it. If you care do something.

 

[Bob O]

With a vacation to wdw costing thousands of dollars when you have to fly with a family i wouldnt go to wdw now with all the changes that they have implemented. They have made numerous bad moves the last number of years and tried to get by on their reputation but the chickens have come home to roost. In this country/world there are thousands of places to visit and i dont believe at this time wdw is a good deal compared to other vacation places. People are voting with their pocket books and wdw isnt giving people a reason to visit or stay onsite with the changes they have made.

 

[Bob O]

I think for most people going to wdw isnt a necessity but a luxury/indulgence unless you happen to live close by. I enjoy going their but with all the cutbacks that have been made i dont feel the value is their at this point and their are alot of other places to visit in the Us and other parts of the world that are nice and for alot of people can be a better value. In my paper today Las Vegas is doing deep discounts on their rooms and arent closing up alot of their resorts to save money. I dont give disney the benefit of the doubt anymore like i used too because they havent shown me they deserve it. They have gotten alot bigger but not all of it is necessarily better.

 

[Safari Steve]

and this is really dopey, I shouldn't even post... but I figure everyone might enjoy a little chuckle at my expense...

Recent entertainment cuts may give guests and CMs a "closer personal connection". Recently, WDW entertainment went "global" which is a fancy way of saying that rather than being several localized departments, it is now one big property-wide department (I'm over-simplifying, but I think you get it...) This resulted in the company being able to add a parade without increasing staffing proportionately. Initially, this meant that the 3 pm Mickey's Jammin' Jungle Parade at DAK and Tapestry of Dreams could utilize many of the same performers. Now that MJJP has been moved to 4pm, they may be able to utilize many CMs for THREE parades (MGM@2, DAK@4, Epcot@6:15/8). With the same group of CMs playing such prominent roles in such a large chunk of each guest's visit to WDW, the emotional take-away will be increased. Imagine showing your photos to friends..."This is Chad from St. Paul. He was the greeter for Tigger at MGM, Chauffer for Aladdin in the Motorcars parade, driver of the camel float at Animal Kingdom, and third Aztec man in Tapestry of Dreams." It'll be as if you have your own personal parade. Imagine now if this type of staffing is adapted to other areas of park operation: "Hi, I'm Safari Steve, I'll be your Jungle Skipper today. Tomorrow, I'll be your server at Prime Time, and on Thursday I'll sell you a snow globe! If you're in Fantasyland from 3pm-7pm tonight, be sure to drop some trash on the ground, chances are I'll be the one who sweeps it up."

 

[Another Voice]

This is not the first time that Disney has faced either an economic recession or a war, yet it is the only time I can remember when Disney placed so much of the impact on its guests. Whether that is justified or not is a decision that the Company needs to make for itself. Those of us who have not been impressed with the Company’s decision making lately cannot be blamed for our uneasiness about their ability to handle current matters.

Nor should people feel guilty about canceling trips because they feel they won’t receive a fair value for their money. Many people were questioning the value of a Disney vacation before this summer. And, I hope, people are rethinking a lot of their priorities right now. Perhaps the money spent on yet one more trip to WDW would be of more use at a children’s hospital. Or the money may be better if put away for a child’s college education. Or even perhaps used to help the families of our servicemen and women. There are trade-offs in all of our decisions. Our world changed and perhaps we should act accordingly.

Disney is a business, not a charity. It is NOT our role to save Disney by bailing them out from their own business decisions. We should NOT be made to feel that supporting the stock options of the Learjet elite is our obligation. If the Company decides it’s in its best interest to get more profit from its guests rather than to encourage more guests to visit – Disney will have to live with the consequences of it’s actions. If it works, fantastic. Disney will come out of this a stronger company. If not, then Disney will have hurt its stockholders, its employees and its customers all for the sake of greed.

Not a good thing to do during Walt’s Birthday party.


P.S. Here’s an interesting tidbit – Watch ‘The Drew Carey Show’ this week, just that one episode. Disney paid Mr. Carey far more money to appear on your television set for thirty minutes than it saved by shutting down the ‘Carousel of Progress’ for an entire year. And the Company pays Mr. Carey despite the fact that Disney losses money on each episode of ‘Drew Carey’ (they hope to make it up later in syndication).

 

[JeffH]

"MGM@2"
I thought the MGM parade was being run at 4pm, soon to shift back to 3:30pm on 10/28?
So the parades at MK, MGM, and AK basically (3, 3:30, 4pm) all run at the same time, now (making it impossible to catch more than one of them, as we did a few weeks ago when we hurried from the 3pm MK parade to catch the 4:30pm parade at MGM)

 

[TXDeb]

Well, well, well, we're really going to see how deep loyalty really runs...this should be interesting...very, very interesting...

I am loyal to my country, I am loyal to my family.
I do not put loyalty to a business in that same catagory, even if it is Disney!

Besides, doesn't that work both ways? Shouldn't a company have some loyalty to its customers?
Especially, the customers that are willing to return year after year and pay thousands of dollars as consumers of its product. Many businesses do reward 'loyal' customers with frequent guest programs. Disney chose not to do that.
Not only have they not offered any kind of frequent guest program, they have gradually cut back on any kind of rewards programs that were offered in the past. The recent cuts just make it worse.

I do understand that some cut-backs are necessary in these uncertain times, but I have watched so many cuts being made in the good times, that I am suspicious of Disney's motives. Even more than that, I abhor the manner in which these cuts have been done. Such short notice, and lying to their guests about EE is not good customer service. Leaving the CMs and guests in the dark, so that people are scrambling to try to figure out whether their PS arrangements are valid, is not good customer service.

I have been loyal to Disney for years. My family of five has returned yearly, staying on site in the deluxe resorts, eating in WDW restaurants, and forgoing other choices of vacation spots to make our yearly trip to WDW. There has been no other business that I have supported both financially and emotionally, the way that I have Disney, especially when you add in my pins, DVDs, movie tickets, etc. All I ask in return is for the company to provide a quality product and HONEST service. If they can not do that, I have no more obligation to spend my money with them, then they do to provide me with the same product that they have in the past.

That's not a question of loyalty. It's a question of using my own money wisely for my family. No matter what happens, I will remain loyal to Disney and all that it has represented to me in the past. I will remain loyal to the ideals and ideas which Walt fought for. I would hate to see Disney fold. However, if the decisions being made by the top brass these days fail to entice visitors to the parks, then it isn't the Disney I knew anyway. The WDW that I knew was a magical place where people dreamed of going because they knew what to expect - a unique and excellent product. Take that away - and it isn't Disney anymore!

 

[Planogirl]

I have also been very loyal to Disney in the past. I have scrimped and saved to go to WDW, year after year, not only because I enjoyed it but because it felt like home to me. I have recommended WDW to many people and helped many plan their trips. I have defended them when they seem to do goofy things and I've even changed a few minds.

However, I do question their decisions right now. I don't appreciate them completely closing down COP during a celebration of Walt's life. That's a VERY tacky decision. I dislike losing e-nights and early entry with all of the cutbacks on operating hours. I hate them laying off the entertainers and other CM's because these people are a big part of what makes WDW so special IMO. Most of all, I'm suspicious because they were already making cutbacks before the recent disasters even though things were supposedly good then. I'm tired of Disney management cheapening WDW.

As for loyalty to WDW, I don't quite understand this. I LOVE WDW but I don't think that it's my responsibility to save the company. I will gladly pay them for a product, a good product but I don't think that I should pay them for an inferior product. At least, I don't believe that it should be as costly as before. They are a business and deserve to be treated like one when it comes to money. After all, we have been dealing directly with layoffs and have had to tighten our belts so maybe it's time for Disney to tighten theirs some too. And not by cutting services to their customers. It is fine to cut the number of shows or restaurant hours and such things. But drastically cutting park hours, doing away with entertainment and so forth is way too much IMO.

I probably won't be returning to WDW without a good discount for my resort stay. I would also rent a car because it's starting to appear that the only Disney facilities that will be open at night may be Downtown Disney and World Showcase. I love to shop but can only do so much so it appears that going offsite may become a necessity soon.

 

[TXDeb]

I posted this on another thread on another board but I think it fits here as well:

My problem with this whole thing is trying to reconcile the idea that the shorter hours and reduced services are because of poor attendance when I keep reading posts from people who have just returned who say that the parks are busy, the CMs who are working are working often overtime, and transportation is often crowded. Some of the posters have said that this was true on weekdays as well as weekends. Yes, they say that wait times for rides are reasonable, but they usually are in the off-season. That is why we usually try to go in non-peak times.

In talking to a CRO CM today, I mentioned the changes, and remarked that things must be a little crazy for them. She told me that no, actually things were fine. She and her co-workers had been working a lot of overtime hours. Now, this just doesn't make sense. Why let go of so many CMs to cut expenses, and then pay overtime wages to the ones that you have working???!!!

I also read on another Disney board that the Character Caravan was not a replacement for EE, even though it is being marketed as such. The poster said that it was done as a concession to the character union as a negotiation for more hours for the characters. This person (a CM, I believe) also stated that the elimination of EE was done as a 'test'. Now I don't know if this true, but if it is, it would be another example of Disney being dishonest to the guests. It also means that if we don't voice our displeasure at the loss of EE, the company will assume that they can cut this benefit without anyone caring. What might the next 'test' be, in that case!