Lights of Winter - EPCOT archway ??

[goofy4tink]

Hey All!

Do you think something will take the place of Lights of Winter? Maybe they'll have something more spectacular???? (Giving Disney benefit of the doubt, here)

Yep, a gospel group.

Perhaps you missed



Parks are down horribly in this economy. Just because networks are up 26% and such doesn't mean Parks gets free money. They're accountable for their own budget. If you do a crappy job at work you do not get a raise because your coworker just broke the sales record. The best you'll manage is a stay of execution as your pal's earnings are padding the bottom line enough to keep you from getting axed.

I get that, I really do. But to take a huge amount of money to build yet another theme park, while taking away from an existing theme park, is nuts. Sure, China gets a nice new park, while those returning to WDW get a lesser experience. Not saying that Disney needs to take money from it's movie division, but perhaps they could have waited to build China's theme park and upgraded what needed upgrading at WDW.
They raise prices, but take away things. Look at the parties..you used to get a terrific souvenier button, a free 5x7 photo, more shows. Not anymore. It costs more to go, and you get some free cocoa and cookies, and some shows, but not the most popular one..no more photo, no more button. And don't tell me about the photopass offer. I don't want to have to pony up a ton of money in order to get my 'free' photo.
But, that's business as usual for Disney.

 

[RMulieri]

Hey All!

Do you think something will take the place of Lights of Winter? Maybe they'll have something more spectacular???? (Giving Disney benefit of the doubt, here)

They have announced that a Gospel choir will perform instead of the LoW

 

[Colleen27]

Did I miss something? Are you saying that the usual "Peace on Earth" holiday ending to Illuminations has been changed? Please say it isn't so. It is one of my reasons for a December trip! I stay at BWV so I can see it almost every night!

No, that hasn't changed. That's what I was talking about - the "Peace on Earth" ending in place of the usual, non-holiday finale that they use for the rest of the year.

 

[Colleen27]

I get that, I really do. But to take a huge amount of money to build yet another theme park, while taking away from an existing theme park, is nuts. Sure, China gets a nice new park, while those returning to WDW get a lesser experience. Not saying that Disney needs to take money from it's movie division, but perhaps they could have waited to build China's theme park and upgraded what needed upgrading at WDW.

Exactly. Parks is one division, and within that division, WDW seems to have become the red-headed stepchild. Disneyland get spectacular holiday decor/festivities. Tokyo is getting lights ironically similar to the Lights of Winter. And China is getting a whole new park. Meanwhile, all the holiday season is bringing at WDW is cuts and price hikes - higher room rates, higher priced admission, higher priced party tickets, higher priced parking, stroller rentals, snacks, drinks, holiday surcharges on meals, and for the money? Cuts in holiday offerings on top of cuts in everyday in-park entertainment, dining, and service.

 

[Robo]

... And Illuminations has about 5min of holiday material in place of the usual finale.

No, that hasn't changed. That's what I was talking about - the "Peace on Earth" ending in place of the usual, non-holiday finale that they use for the rest of the year.

Sorry, but that's not quite correct.

ALL of the "regular" IllumiNations," including the regular finale, runs first...

THEN, they ADD the Holiday Finale,
which contains the same (or greater) number of fireworks,
in about 5 minutes, as were exploded in all of the preceding "regular" IllumiNations.

The Holiday Finale is SPECTACULAR!


.

 

[brunette8706]

A gosspel choir is replacing the Lights of Winter????

That is apples and oranges. Why not have a bigger and better display of lights. If I want to listen to music I will go the the processional. Give me a break. Who's brilliant idea was this??? My lord! UGH!

 

[aprilp]

Sorry, but that's not quite correct.

ALL of the "regular" IllumiNations" runs first...

THEN, they ADD the Holiday Finale,
which contains the same (or greater) number of fireworks,
in about 5 minutes, as were exploded in all of the preceding "regular" IllumiNations.

The Holiday Finale is SPECTACULAR!

Agreed! IllumiNations is simply fabulous all on its own, but the Holiday Finale IS spectacular! Totally worth going to Epcot!

 

[aprilp]

A gosspel choir is replacing the Lights of Winter????

That is apples and oranges. Why not have a bigger and better display of lights. If I want to listen to music I will go the the processional. Give me a break. Who's brilliant idea was this??? My lord! UGH!

I'm thinking that maybe they just said this to save face? Like they hadnt planned to put anything in place of the LoW but when everyone started fussing about it they were like, oh but we have something ELSE special this year...a gospel choir! Yeah, right....we have the CP that we can stand there and watch, so why would we need a gospel choir? Dumb! We dont come to WDW to hear singing, visual is more stimulating than audio any day!

I doubt they'll keep the gospel choir in place of the lights....probably trying to figure out something light-related that is cheap to put in its place and needs a year to figure it out.

 

[jekjones1558]

No, that hasn't changed. That's what I was talking about - the "Peace on Earth" ending in place of the usual, non-holiday finale that they use for the rest of the year.

Thanks for clarifying. I will miss the Epcot archway and the "Twas" show at MVMCP. I would have been REALLY bummed if the holiday tag for Illuminations were also gone.

 

[robinb]

Yep, a gospel group.

You're kidding, right? A gospel group?!? They take away the perfectly non-religious Lights of WINTER and replace it with a Christian gospel choir?!?! That just adds insult to injury for me and other non-Christians who go to WDW in late November and December.

 

[disneyfantotheend]

I am a Christian and still think it is a joke for them to say a Gospel group is replacing LoW. Now to say it was replacing CP would make more sense. Not that i would want CP to go away, but it would be more of an equal comparison.

 

[murmkc]

The Walt Disney Company that I know could easily build and program the entire Lights of Winter display from scratch before Thanksgiving with time to spare.

Ever hear the story about the creation of "it's a small world"?

 

[doconeill]

I don't think there is necessarily a connection between the gospel group and LOW. It could just be coincidence.

 

[chuckml]

I've got a suitable replacement for the Lights of Winter-- Its called THE LIGHTS OF WINTER!!! Come on Disney, you are killing us with this nickle and dime cr*p!

 

[WDSearcher]

Um, so with your logic, they would assume that the castle lights for Christmas are working perfectly a month before Christmas? They would take that much of a risk? No, I don't think so. You don't think they test and retest those lights 6 months in advance to make sure everything is in perfect working condition for the BIGGEST HOLIDAY of the year? Heck this is the BIGGEST MONEY maker month for Disney.

OK ... let's look at what was happening six months ago. Hmmmm. Huge economic downturn. Attendance down. Disney scrambling to get people in the parks. Massive lay-offs company-wide. Huge discounting measures. Restructuring company-wide. Yes ... I can see how testing and restesting Christmas lights would have been a top priority.

I'm thinking that, when they came down last year, someone said "Hey -- we need to check the tech on these for next year". And the response was, "Great -- we'll do that in July." Then all of the above happened. For all we know, the guys who managed, teched and ran the LOW last year don't even WORK for WDW any more. They may have been among the lay-offs. And with all the other cost-cutting, it's conceivable that Disney said, "You're going to have to get rid of something at Epcot this Christmas ... decide." And the PTB said, "You know ... the LOW tech is basically obsolete and will be expensive to change, so let's just bag it for this year and work on it next year when there's money."

The castle lights were all converted (at great expense, likely) to LED last year, so they're a whole different animal. But I can guarantee you that they, too, have a shelf life, and a time will come when Disney will decide that the "sparkling Christmas ice lights" will have completed their run and they will go away and be replaced (or not) with something new. Every show at Disney has a lifespan. And, while you may say, "You've got plenty of money to spend on a new Fantasyland, but you take away my Christmas lights!", that's apples to oranges. It's comparing a huge capital project that will be paid for over several years to a small holiday event that needs money NOW. The two things aren't paid for from the same budget.

It's perfectly cool and fine to express disappointment about a favorite show or attraction going away, but the prevailing attitude here isn't "Oh ... I'm going to miss my favorite show", or "I'm so upset that my favorite show is going away!", or "Dear Disney -- please bring back my favorite holiday tradition" ... it's, "Those stupid money-grubbing people at Disney keep cutting everything to save a buck." There's virtually no understanding of the bigger picture.

 

[jpeka65844]

Agreed! IllumiNations is simply fabulous all on its own, but the Holiday Finale IS spectacular! Totally worth going to Epcot!

In my opinion, Illuminations and especially the Holiday Finale, with the Harlem Boys Choir and The Cronkite ALONE are worth the price of admission to Epcot. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it right now....

 

[chuckml]

OK ... let's look at what was happening six months ago. Hmmmm. Huge economic downturn. Attendance down. Disney scrambling to get people in the parks. Massive lay-offs company-wide. Huge discounting measures. Restructuring company-wide. Yes ... I can see how testing and restesting Christmas lights would have been a top priority.

I'm thinking that, when they came down last year, someone said "Hey -- we need to check the tech on these for next year". And the response was, "Great -- we'll do that in July." Then all of the above happened. For all we know, the guys who managed, teched and ran the LOW last year don't even WORK for WDW any more. They may have been among the lay-offs. And with all the other cost-cutting, it's conceivable that Disney said, "You're going to have to get rid of something at Epcot this Christmas ... decide." And the PTB said, "You know ... the LOW tech is basically obsolete and will be expensive to change, so let's just bag it for this year and work on it next year when there's money."

The castle lights were all converted (at great expense, likely) to LED last year, so they're a whole different animal. But I can guarantee you that they, too, have a shelf life, and a time will come when Disney will decide that the "sparkling Christmas ice lights" will have completed their run and they will go away and be replaced (or not) with something new. Every show at Disney has a lifespan. And, while you may say, "You've got plenty of money to spend on a new Fantasyland, but you take away my Christmas lights!", that's apples to oranges. It's comparing a huge capital project that will be paid for over several years to a small holiday event that needs money NOW. The two things aren't paid for from the same budget.

It's perfectly cool and fine to express disappointment about a favorite show or attraction going away, but the prevailing attitude here isn't "Oh ... I'm going to miss my favorite show", or "I'm so upset that my favorite show is going away!", or "Dear Disney -- please bring back my favorite holiday tradition" ... it's, "Those stupid money-grubbing people at Disney keep cutting everything to save a buck." There's virtually no understanding of the bigger picture.

I think alot of us--don't want to speak for everyone-- just see alot of take away and not much give back, thats all. I know they've offered discounts, but at the same time they have raised prices on other things at the same time. Examples being stroller rental, ticket prices, parking, dining plan price has shot up while appetizers and tips have been taken away. Shorter park hours, more parties--at a substantially higher price--etc. It just doesn't seem we are getting the same bang for our buck that we were. I still love the place, and am returning in 3 weeks, but its getting harder and harder to justify our multiple trips anymore.

 

[dolphindan1]

OK ... let's look at what was happening six months ago. Hmmmm. Huge economic downturn. Attendance down. Disney scrambling to get people in the parks. Massive lay-offs company-wide. Huge discounting measures. Restructuring company-wide. Yes ... I can see how testing and restesting Christmas lights would have been a top priority.

I'm thinking that, when they came down last year, someone said "Hey -- we need to check the tech on these for next year". And the response was, "Great -- we'll do that in July." Then all of the above happened. For all we know, the guys who managed, teched and ran the LOW last year don't even WORK for WDW any more. They may have been among the lay-offs. And with all the other cost-cutting, it's conceivable that Disney said, "You're going to have to get rid of something at Epcot this Christmas ... decide." And the PTB said, "You know ... the LOW tech is basically obsolete and will be expensive to change, so let's just bag it for this year and work on it next year when there's money."

The castle lights were all converted (at great expense, likely) to LED last year, so they're a whole different animal. But I can guarantee you that they, too, have a shelf life, and a time will come when Disney will decide that the "sparkling Christmas ice lights" will have completed their run and they will go away and be replaced (or not) with something new. Every show at Disney has a lifespan. And, while you may say, "You've got plenty of money to spend on a new Fantasyland, but you take away my Christmas lights!", that's apples to oranges. It's comparing a huge capital project that will be paid for over several years to a small holiday event that needs money NOW. The two things aren't paid for from the same budget.

It's perfectly cool and fine to express disappointment about a favorite show or attraction going away, but the prevailing attitude here isn't "Oh ... I'm going to miss my favorite show", or "I'm so upset that my favorite show is going away!", or "Dear Disney -- please bring back my favorite holiday tradition" ... it's, "Those stupid money-grubbing people at Disney keep cutting everything to save a buck." There's virtually no understanding of the bigger picture.

and yet they raised prices....and parking prices i believe

 

[brunette8706]

I think alot of us--don't want to speak for everyone-- just see alot of take away and not much give back, thats all. I know they've offered discounts, but at the same time they have raised prices on other things at the same time. Examples being stroller rental, ticket prices, parking, dining plan price has shot up while appetizers and tips have been taken away. Shorter park hours, more parties--at a substantially higher price--etc. It just doesn't seem we are getting the same bang for our buck that we were. I still love the place, and am returning in 3 weeks, but its getting harder and harder to justify our multiple trips anymore.


**
You are exactly right! This is why people are getting peeved. They are paying more for dining, tickets, parking, parties, stroller rentals etc. They are taking alot of the better food of the menus, reducing park hours, increasing parties to 4 times a week at $50 -$60 a pop per person. And I'm not talking a normal inflation cost of 2 percent a year. I am talking about 20 percent PLUS! The strollers increased to 30 percent last year. And yes, they are giving less and less. Heck just last quarter (I posted on the previous page) Disney PROFITTED close to 1 BILLION dollars for the QUARTER! It just doesn't make sense why they would take down a brilliant, spectacular light show during the BIGGEST HOLIDAY season of the year. As some other poster pointed out that Disney is retiring the LoW because of technology! Well, you mean to tell me they couldn't figure something out back in late January of this year to come up with something just as nice? It's ludicrous and most people are becoming fed up with Disney's Business Plan.

BTW WDSearcher's post 235 is a strawman argument. He makes a ficticious point and supports it by ficticious statements. There is no substance there at all. Sheesh.

Brunette

 

[Colleen27]

You're kidding, right? A gospel group?!? They take away the perfectly non-religious Lights of WINTER and replace it with a Christian gospel choir?!?! That just adds insult to injury for me and other non-Christians who go to WDW in late November and December.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way! I'm always hesitant to bring up that aspect because some people find it weird that a non-Christian would be celebrating Christmas to begin with, but for us it is a celebration of family and tradition. The Lights of Winter was the inclusive side to Epcot's holiday celebration, and replacing it with another Christian/religious experience when there is already the Candlelight Processional to celebrate that facet of the holidays really does add insult to injury for those of us who celebrate a secular or non-Christian holiday season.