Libya

[Bilberry]

As I was reading earlier today, hope the conflict is short and quick. With Libya being a former sponsor of terrorism, would hate for the Colonel to resume his past ways in order to get revenge against the west.

Obama’s War
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/03/19/obamas-war/

 

[Holly]

Instead we should get it from a comedian on the Comedy Channel?

People know when they turn the channel to Comedy Central that they're getting comedians.

It seems that the people who turn the channel to FOX don't realize that they're getting comedians, too.

 

[luvmy3]

I watch CNN, ABC........too. That way I get all sides.

Sides, what do you mean sides? Aren't all news outlets fair and balanced

 

[cm8]

It's all a matter of perspective. Clearly, for the people onto whom atrocities would be committed, nothing could be worse than how things would have been, and anything done to preclude those atrocities being committed would be an improvement. Put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself whether you'd prefer having the entire world stand by watching you being attacked. Any reasonable person would clearly hope and expect that people of conscience would not stand by and let such things continue unabated, and they would be justified in their expectations in that regard, simply on humanitarian grounds. We're not talking about people not having access to the latest films or books - we're talking about sanitation, power, emergency care, basic necessities - all being withheld - and the inevitability that the government there would commit much worse (if they haven't done so already). There is a threshold of offense beyond which it would be morally indefensible for the outside world to just sit back and do nothing.

Moral cowardice that keeps us from speaking our minds is as dangerous to this country as irresponsible talk. The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character.
Margaret Chase Smith:

 

[bumbershoot]

Bicker, it can always be worse.

I agree that it's a matter of perspective and I wonder if the following scenario would change yours:

Using what's happened when we meddled in these things in recent years, here's a prediction: we'll go there, a bunch of people will die and Gadhafi will be overthrown. Then the rebel factions we helped to overthrow Gadhafi and other groups will start killing each other and there will be a civil war. The net result could very well be that far more people will die than would have died under Gadhafi if we had just stayed out of Libya's business.

Would the behavior of the U.N. be morally indefensible then or does our moral accountability start over from scratch?

As we've also seen, any gains made by groups in these countries are always seen as illegitimate if they're attained with the help of the west.
Going there and helping seems like a great idea until you take the time to look at the culture and realize that we may be doing more harm than good.

Holly, you and I think the same way about this sort of thing.



Now we're standing by and watching OTHER people be killed, by a busybody group that doesn't live there. We're messing with things, AGAIN, that I feel shouldn't be messed with.

I have felt the same since the first Gulf War...when my stepdad, who worked for the CIA (career, since the Vietnam War era), told me a few weeks before it started that it WAS going to start. I hated it then and I hate it now.

 

[happygirl]

I actually won't watch any other new channels beside Fox, The ones are to liberal for me

 

[pat fan]

I guess there are some small variations in this poem, but the gist is there and true...

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller

 

[Holly]

I guess there are some small variations in this poem, but the gist is there and true...

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller

Perhaps you should put that in a letter and send it to the U.N. requesting that we intervene in all of the countries that are ruled by dictators.
I'm not exactly sure, but I believe there are about sixty dictators in as many countries that we could go start messing with. Many of the people in those countries live in the same environment as those in Libya.

Still, I'm not sure that the above poem is appropriate for this scenario. The U.N. has specific guideline for genocide and the situation in Libya doesn't meet them.

There actually is genocide happening in the world now, and yet we're not running out and doing anything about it. People who want to talk about their moral obligations might want to think about why that is.

 

[topolino]

There actually is genocide happening in the world now, and yet we're not running out and doing anything about it. People who want to talk about their moral obligations might want to think about why that is.

Because Ivory Coast is not an oil producing nation.

Sadly, that is exactly why it is.

 

[EllenFrasier]

Ground to air missles - isn't that how we started out with Iraq?

 

[akhenaten]

I actually won't watch any other new channels beside Fox, The ones are to liberal for me

Well Fox is too conservative for me... but I watch it along with the others... then I know I am getting a cross section of the stories... not any one bias!!

You really are limiting yourself if you only watch one... and what good is it if you are only hearing what you want to hear... there is nothing to be learned from that....

 

[skater]

Well Fox is too conservative for me... but I watch it along with the others... then I know I am getting a cross section of the stories... not any one bias!!

You really are limiting yourself if you only watch one... and what good is it if you are only hearing what you want to hear... there is nothing to be learned from that....

Weighing in as a conservative and I think you're absolutely right. I watch all the major news networks as well as read from other sources - and I make up my own mind. Its really tough to get an unbiased news report from any one source - it seems that all of the major news sources (television) are skewed to a certain side.

On a side note, you sound way more intelligent than someone who dismisses Fox completely. They have coverage that is from another angle - and its not always conservative (often though) - sometimes its just a different part of the story that another network didn't cover.

 

[ChrisFL]

I actually won't watch any other new channels beside Fox, The ones are to liberal for me

Despite that they make up stories and get their "facts" wrong just to serve their purposes?

 

[Jennasis]

This is all SO deja vu. We moved in to our house here in NC 8 years ago...two days after "shock and awe" started. I was pretty numb, having uprooted my whole life and moved 600 miles from everything I knew, and add in the crazy of watching the bombing of Iraq...I remember it well (including being completely shocked that while war was being waged, the local news here in NC had LIVE TEAM COVERAGE at the top of their newscast, of the the basketball coach at Wake Forest arriving at the campus!).

Here we are 8 years later, and now it's Libya. I just hope this is handled better than Iraq was.

 

[skater]

This is all SO deja vu. We moved in to our house here in NC 8 years ago...two days after "shock and awe" started. I was pretty numb, having uprooted my whole life and moved 600 miles from everything I knew, and add in the crazy of watching the bombing of Iraq...I remember it well (including being completely shocked that while war was being waged, the local news here in NC had LIVE TEAM COVERAGE at the top of their newscast, of the the basketball coach at Wake Forest arriving at the campus!).

Here we are 8 years later, and now it's Libya. I just hope this is handled better than Iraq was.

I hope its handled better too. This just confirms my belief that all politicians are basically the same. Or maybe sometimes their hands are tied and they have to make choices that don't make sense. Who knows?

 

[4nana]

I have mixed emotions, altho very sad for all involved, I hope the US treads lightly. Our dedicated military is currently overwhelmed, stretched thin, with so many having paid the ultimate sacrifice for our great nation. Altho our son is a volunteer, like many here, he has already served in 2 wars, I can only pray he doesn't have to serve in another.

 

[C.Ann]

Here we are 8 years later, and now it's Libya. I just hope this is handled better than Iraq was.

I agree - and quite frankly, the whole situation scares me..

 

[pat fan]

Perhaps you should put that in a letter and send it to the U.N. requesting that we intervene in all of the countries that are ruled by dictators.
I'm not exactly sure, but I believe there are about sixty dictators in as many countries that we could go start messing with. Many of the people in those countries live in the same environment as those in Libya.

Still, I'm not sure that the above poem is appropriate for this scenario.

Well, I am not sure it is exactly appropriate for this situation either, but it can't hurt to think on it. And no, I don't think we should go to every country in the world, and "we" are not, it is the UN, not the US. We may be part of it, but it is not the US going and invading a country.

I don't have all the answers to if anyone should interfere in Libya or not, I just know it's awful hard to listen to cries for help and do nothing.

 

[skater]

I have mixed emotions, altho very sad for all involved, I hope the US treads lightly. Our dedicated military is currently overwhelmed, stretched thin, with so many having paid the ultimate sacrifice for our great nation. Altho our son is a volunteer, like many here, he has already served in 2 wars, I can only pray he doesn't have to serve in another.

This is my real concern too. I don't understand the wars we're already involved in, and I don't want to see anymore of our best young men sent to them. I feel bad for the people of Libya, but in how many civil wars can we intervene? BTW, who has it worse than the people of N. Korea and I don't think we're going there.

 

[skater]

Well, I am not sure it is exactly appropriate for this situation either, but it can't hurt to think on it. And no, I don't think we should go to every country in the world, and "we" are not, it is the UN, not the US. We may be part of it, but it is not the US going and invading a country.

I don't have all the answers to if anyone should interfere in Libya or not, I just know it's awful hard to listen to cries for help and do nothing.

Its a tough call isn't it? But how do we pick and choose? And where does it stop? I'm not a pacifist - I'm just tired of the wasted lives and money spent in our other two wars.