Leverage: anyone considering SSR purchase:

[crisi]

I'm sorry, I missed where TCPluto said EVERYONE was lying about their kids having asthma. I think he/she said that SOME people lie, some people get doctors to sign off on "mild" cases. Everyone here is probably terribly honest, everyone needing a non-smoking room for medical reasons probably really does have a child who can't stay (or they themselves can't stay) in a smoking room without needing a hospital trip. Lets just grant that not everyone is as honest as we all are.

Furthermore, if it becomes more and more difficult to get a non-smoking room without a doctors note, more and more people who find the odor of stale smoke unpleasant will show up with a doctor's note. If that is how the system is worked, people will work the system.

Last time we had this discussion I postulated that perhaps 10% of the people who require a non-smoking room for medical reasons REALLY need it - they will end up in the hospital without it. 30% should have it - their asthma or allergies might be managed with medication, or it might just make their trip unpleasant, but they'd survive without needing a trip to the ER. The other 60% just don't like the smell of stale smoke and are like me (though we just request NS, we don't request "medical") - I'll sneeze and get stuffed up and won't sleep well, and get headaches but it isn't more than "uncomfortable" (well, the headaches do require some medication). Based on the fact that I get stuffed up and sneeze, I could have my doctor write a perscription for my allergy for a non-smoking room, but I won't. I'd rather save that room for someone whose allergies or asthma can't be managed to a reasonable level.

I do suspect smoking rooms have a limited life at DVC. But I also suspect that will only make the problem more difficult - as DVC won't bother to enforce it. All rooms will be non-smoking, but that just means that the chance a smoker has smoked in your non-smoking room will go up.

 

[NMW]

Not that anyone will care, in the midst of the flame war, but reading the boards during the past week has cemented a decision in my mind not to continue to pursue purchase of a small DVC contract. It would have been only a toe in the water but still a significant investment for us.

My experience in a cash room, Disney or elsewhere, is that if a room reeks of smoke, is filthy, or is otherwise unaccepable to me as a place to spend my hard-earned dollars, I can call the front desk and be helped into an accomodation that better meets my needs. If not, I can always spend the night in the room and let my fingers do the walking.

Nor am I willing to purposely check into an aiport hotel the first night, pack up again in the a.m. and go over to WDW -- or leave in the middle of the night with my kids like Shan is talking about -- to better my chances of obtaining a quality room. It's ridiculous, this is a vacation?

These boards are a font of information. Thanks and best wishes.

So sorry reading these boards convinced you not to buy DVC. Please realize that the members of this board make up a very small sampling of total DVC members. There are over 90,000 DVC members. We have several friends who own and had never even heard of these boards until I told them about them. No, they did not join after learning about them! DH works with many DVC owners (you know, New Jersey people)! I'm pretty sure most of them are not members on this board, at least the ones he talks to the most, don't know about all the others.

My point is, you are only talking to a tiny sampling of DVC members. Plus, not to offend anyone, but I think stuff sometimes gets a little blown out of proportion here. To read some of the more recent threads you'd think every time you checked into a DVC resort you'd end up with a smoking, HA room in nead of many repairs and have rude CM's at every turn. I just don't think this is the case! I hope you reconsider!

 

[iankh]

My point is, you are only talking to a tiny sampling of DVC members.

This is a good point. The information here is annecdotal (which is not to say that it isn't valid experience).

I am not sure what the room type breakdown is at a resort by percentages, but if a resort is fully booked, it would mean that statiscally, a goodly percentage of people might have indeed had their requirements met.

 

[TCPluto]

I'm sorry, I missed where TCPluto said EVERYONE was lying about their kids having asthma. I think he/she said that SOME people lie, some people get doctors to sign off on "mild" cases. Everyone here is probably terribly honest, everyone needing a non-smoking room for medical reasons probably really does have a child who can't stay (or they themselves can't stay) in a smoking room without needing a hospital trip. Lets just grant that not everyone is as honest as we all are.

Furthermore, if it becomes more and more difficult to get a non-smoking room without a doctors note, more and more people who find the odor of stale smoke unpleasant will show up with a doctor's note. If that is how the system is worked, people will work the system.

Last time we had this discussion I postulated that perhaps 10% of the people who require a non-smoking room for medical reasons REALLY need it - they will end up in the hospital without it. 30% should have it - their asthma or allergies might be managed with medication, or it might just make their trip unpleasant, but they'd survive without needing a trip to the ER. The other 60% just don't like the smell of stale smoke and are like me (though we just request NS, we don't request "medical") - I'll sneeze and get stuffed up and won't sleep well, and get headaches but it isn't more than "uncomfortable" (well, the headaches do require some medication). Based on the fact that I get stuffed up and sneeze, I could have my doctor write a perscription for my allergy for a non-smoking room, but I won't. I'd rather save that room for someone whose allergies or asthma can't be managed to a reasonable level.

I do suspect smoking rooms have a limited life at DVC. But I also suspect that will only make the problem more difficult - as DVC won't bother to enforce it. All rooms will be non-smoking, but that just means that the chance a smoker has smoked in your non-smoking room will go up.

Thank you for your accurate observations.

I was not saying that len was lying (or anyone else), just that people do use these types of issues for advantage, getting a doctors note when not actually a medical necessity, etc.

I think that many of these people do "Protesteth too much". And it is very evident, that they own the right to how the world turns, and we should be happy they allow us to be in it at the same time as them.


Many of these folks have missed my points completely. And that surprised me. But it did'nt really fit their needs...

 

[TCPluto]

I find your comments about people lying about their children having asthma very offensive. Asthma is something our family has lived with for a long time and to just dismiss my child's health problem because it is not something you can "see" by looking at him is wrong. Are you saying if you saw our family at check in with a note from either my 6 year old son's pediatrician or asthma/allergist doctor you would assume we were LYING just so our room would not smell? What would it take to convince you? ALL of his medical records? Perhaps you would need to see all of his medication? Or would you think that was a lie too? I know, how about riding in the ambulance with us next time he has an attack, his breathing treatments fail, and he can't breathe? I guess you would think that was a lie too.

I almost did not submit this. Then, I thought of my little boy and I just became so hurt and upset by your comments again.

BTW, nonsmoking is the only request I ever make on our reservations. I thought about making NHA a request after reading these threads, but decided not to bother. I really would not matter all that much to us. This will be our first DVC trip and if they can not accomodate us on the nonsmoking, we would not check in. Also, I do not think asthma is limited to the Dis board. My children have many, many friends with asthma. When my 6 year old (who is in kindergarten) has gym he goes to the nurse 1/2 hour before gym to use his inhaler. THREE other kids from his class also go to use inhalers. I don't know why so many kids today have asthma. Like you, I am not a doctor.

I apologize for hurting your feelings, that was not my intent. But I do stand by my statement that people will get a doctors note, simply to circumvent the system. I have seen it done numerous times.

It's not what I want or decide, I don't have a dog in the hunt, as it were. I'm just poijting out what I see as flaws in the system.

 

[athenna]

So sorry reading these boards convinced you not to buy DVC. Please realize that the members of this board make up a very small sampling of total DVC members. There are over 90,000 DVC members. We have several friends who own and had never even heard of these boards until I told them about them. No, they did not join after learning about them! DH works with many DVC owners (you know, New Jersey people)! I'm pretty sure most of them are not members on this board, at least the ones he talks to the most, don't know about all the others.

My point is, you are only talking to a tiny sampling of DVC members. Plus, not to offend anyone, but I think stuff sometimes gets a little blown out of proportion here. To read some of the more recent threads you'd think every time you checked into a DVC resort you'd end up with a smoking, HA room in nead of many repairs and have rude CM's at every turn. I just don't think this is the case! I hope you reconsider!

Exactly! I knew this was going to happen, I knew we'd have at least 1 person afraid to buy after reading some of these posts. I hadn't even heard of these boards until after I bought. I have a positive attitude about DVC, even though I am realistic and really even Disney isn't perfect. Nothing is. I know there have to be a lot of DVC members thrilled and haven't run into a lot of the problems that have been posted. I haven't yet made my 1st DVC trip yet, but am looking forward to it. And I do hope snowbunny reconsiders. Not everyone will have the same experiences.

 

[Deb & Bill]

There seems to be a small vocal group who is very unhappy with DVC about the possibility of getting something they did not request. My suggestion - yeh, you got it - sell your points and purchase a motor home that you can control the environment. If you want a tub, purchase one with a tub. If you want it non-smoking, don't smoke in it.

I bought enough points to stay in a one bedroom twice a year. I prefer that lodging over the studio. I'll be staying in a studio in June since we stayed in a two bedroom in January with family members. So don't ask me for any points, I just might tie them to a HA-Smoking room just for you.

I understand the value and moderate resorts also have HA rooms. So beware.

TCPluto, I'm sorry you keep getting attacked by some of the less considerate members of this board. You have to keep explaining yourself and they get by without doing so. I am so tired of the "it's all about me" posters.

 

[TCPluto]

Deb/Bill, Thanks for the kind words. I posted fully aware that the large number of "it's all about me posters" would go wild, and they didn't disapoint in that regard. I see folks like them all the time, they are a large group!

 

[TCPluto]

Yes, I can tell.

Should I respond with a personal attack, such as you?? No, I won't go to your level...

I was simply trying to understand, which I think is a good approach...

I'm just wondering why the medical stale smoke people have all migrated to the DIS... I have never met them anywhere else.

 

[crisi]

snowbunny, I think you've made a wise decision. DVC is not for everyone, and we often say that. I'm adding to my list of people it isn't for is anyone who will regret their purchase decision if they get a HA room or anyone who needs a NS guarentee - and the system is currently set up, DVC cannot make these guarentees. DVC cannot guarentee room location, trade outs or availability. Perks and discounts are subject to change. Many of the systems we use now may change over the life of the contract.

 

[brittsmum1998]

I can only hope to have TCPluto and Crisi as neighbors while at "home" I mean that sincerely. I'm so glad I didn't find this forum until after we had purchased cause some of you guys would've scared the poop outta me I thought the main reason to buy DVC was to relax and make memories w/ friends and families. I'm not gonna get into the whole smoking/ha rooms. I will say that I consider myself and family VERY considerate and while reading this posts on a daily basis (sometimes bad for your health) that I have to stop and remember I paid as much $$ as everyone else to enjoy my vacation, and its unfortunately that a select few feel that they belong to that exclusive "all about me" club. My parents taught me life is what you make of it. AND b4 you start flaming me, understand I grew up w/ a handicapped family (lost brother due to his handicap at 21) and I am handicapped to an extent. I don't EVER remember my parents complaining to anyone re; accomodations, smoking etc. and my brother was severe hemophiliac w/ braces on feet, he couldn't sleep w/ the sheets tucked into the bed. Again, we were thankful for what we had. !! I guess I rambled but again just my opinion.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

There seems to be a small vocal group who is very unhappy with DVC about the possibility of getting something they did not request. My suggestion - yeh, you got it - sell your points and purchase a motor home that you can control the environment. If you want a tub, purchase one with a tub. If you want it non-smoking, don't smoke in it.

I bought enough points to stay in a one bedroom twice a year. I prefer that lodging over the studio. I'll be staying in a studio in June since we stayed in a two bedroom in January with family members. So don't ask me for any points, I just might tie them to a HA-Smoking room just for you.

I understand the value and moderate resorts also have HA rooms. So beware.

TCPluto, I'm sorry you keep getting attacked by some of the less considerate members of this board. You have to keep explaining yourself and they get by without doing so. I am so tired of the "it's all about me" posters.

great philosophy! dont bother to try to make changes! perfect, I hope everyone strives to live by that way of thinking.

How about instead of just sitting there arguing with people, alot of the times, just for the sake of simply arguing, how about people give some reasons as to why the system cant or shouldnt be changed. Hughh? for once!?

I havent heard 1 good reason why you cant get non smoking or non HA at the 11 month mark. All is I am hearing is "you dont really need a non smoking room, ahh just make do without a tub".

and no "because people will take advantage of it" and "because thats the way it is set up now" are no where near good reasons.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I can only hope to have TCPluto and Crisi as neighbors while at "home" I mean that sincerely. I'm so glad I didn't find this forum until after we had purchased cause some of you guys would've scared the poop outta me I thought the main reason to buy DVC was to relax and make memories w/ friends and families. I'm not gonna get into the whole smoking/ha rooms. I will say that I consider myself and family VERY considerate and while reading this posts on a daily basis (sometimes bad for your health) that I have to stop and remember I paid as much $$ as everyone else to enjoy my vacation, and its unfortunately that a select few feel that they belong to that exclusive "all about me" club. My parents taught me life is what you make of it. AND b4 you start flaming me, understand I grew up w/ a handicapped family (lost brother due to his handicap at 21) and I am handicapped to an extent. I don't EVER remember my parents complaining to anyone re; accomodations, smoking etc. and my brother was severe hemophiliac w/ braces on feet, he couldn't sleep w/ the sheets tucked into the bed. Again, we were thankful for what we had. !! I guess I rambled but again just my opinion.

thats great that you have been able to make due with the situations presented to you. Please dont group everyone in together and expect they all are capable of the same things. We dont know what others can or cant deal with.

Again what is wrong with a bit of change to make the whole better when in fact it has zero impact on the majority and helps the minority greatly. It seems like a potential win win for everyone, in turn, making our dvc even BETTER.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Deb/Bill, Thanks for the kind words. I posted fully aware that the large number of "it's all about me posters" would go wild, and they didn't disapoint in that regard. I see folks like them all the time, they are a large group!

I find it interesting it always comes back to this.

Fact is I having NOTHING to gain or lose from this issue whether it remains the same or changes. NOTHING. So how is it all about me?

When one side cant present actual facts it becomes well it isnt just about you, you know!

its ridiculous actually. not too many(if any) are saying dvc sucks the whole thing needs to be scrapped, why did we waste our money, blah blah blah. In my view its quite the opposite, I LOVE dvc, I think its great, and I want to try to help keep it that way. whenI think disney I think of the very best, across the line, in everything. customer service, housekeeping, imagination, upkeep, cleaniness, you name it. I think there is an issue here and I dont think it would be very difficult to fix, thats all nothing more nothing less

Maybe if someone would list some opposing arguements as to why it shouldnt change or cant change then I can rethink my stance, but I havent seen that at all, not in the slightest. Not one single argument as to why members can not guarentee these requests at the 11 month mark and the 11 month mark only.

 

[disworldnum1]

I have stated befor my son suffers from asthma and the optimal word is "suffers"This disease kills for those of you who dont know it.Within 5 mins. of loss of airway you can develope permanant brain damage.One of my sons triggers is cigarette smoke and yes that means the nasty smell that is in the furniture,curtains and bedspreads.I bring my own sheets,pillows and blankets where ever I go.I have also written on this site due to the fact that Disney can not guarantee me a smoke-free and clean envirorment for my son I have taken my bussiness elsewhere. I used to stay several weeks at a time and now I rent a vacation home on a regular basis.I cant understand how some people who know absolutely nothing about this disease can make such idiotic statements.When I make reservations for my now single week at BWV i ask for a non-smoking room for medical reasons.Does this ever happen ..very rarely.

 

[tjkraz]

I love hearing all opinions on the matter, seems though you like to try to dismiss whatever opinions dont fall in line with your thinking

So I'm being dismissive and you're the one with the open mind, eh?



Sorry, I'm not taking that bait.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

So I'm being dismissive and you're the one with the open mind, eh?



Sorry, I'm not taking that bait.

I would love to hear both sides of the story, I am willing to evaluate my position in the matter if someone would post ANYTHING with some factual info in it. Its great that people think they are perfect because they can "deal" with smoke or a HA rooms. Thats all great and wonderful and all, really it is, but it honestly doesnt due anything for or against the argument of changing the booking guarentees.

 

[CapeCodFam]

Maybe if someone would list some opposing arguements as to why it shouldnt change or cant change then I can rethink my stance, but I havent seen that at all, not in the slightest. Not one single argument as to why members can not guarentee these requests at the 11 month mark and the 11 month mark only.

I remember this past summer that BWV had a pipe leak in the boardwalk views. They took a few rooms out of service and I'm sure some boardwalk views didn't get granted. Rooms are taken out of service, unexpectedly, for various reasons. You could just be out of luck at check-in anyway.

I like the process the way it is. It is exactly what DVC said it would be. They are masters at customer service and I'd bet they labored on this to come up with something that would benefit the broadest membership.

 

[TCPluto]

great philosophy! dont bother to try to make changes! perfect, I hope everyone strives to live by that way of thinking.

How about instead of just sitting there arguing with people, alot of the times, just for the sake of simply arguing, how about people give some reasons as to why the system cant or shouldnt be changed. Hughh? for once!?

I havent heard 1 good reason why you cant get non smoking or non HA at the 11 month mark. All is I am hearing is "you dont really need a non smoking room, ahh just make do without a tub".

and no "because people will take advantage of it" and "because thats the way it is set up now" are no where near good reasons.

You haven't heard, perhaps because you don't choose to listen (ok, read). Tkratz and ChuckS have stated several times why the systems works as it does. While this just may be their opinions, it seems very plausable, if you take the time to consider their thoughts.

 

[crisi]

I believe ChuckS posted some factual information earlier in this thread about why its not "easy" to guarentee non-HA rooms. I believe I have posted about occupancy levels. 97% of the resort is sold out. 3% of the rooms are reserved for maintenance. Rooms that are turned over to CRO need to be sold to pay for trades. There is some wiggle room in points that expire or where the dues are unpaid - currently DVC resells those to CRO to gain income and lower our dues. DVC is a seperate legal subsidary from Disney resorts and can only use Disney resort rooms at the discretion of the Disney resort division. Those are facts. There isn't room to let "non-ideal" rooms set empty. There may, indeed, be a more fair way to allocate these rooms, although I suspect anything that leaves some people with a HA is unfair to those people. If they do it by booking date, the preference goes to the home resort owners who booked early - that seems fair to me, but I know that when the BW View was announced, non-BW owners screamed about how unfair it was. The current system seems to be checkin time/room ready - which is best for people who arrive earlier in the day (but not too early when only a few rooms are clean), but unfair to anyone who arrives late. They could give non-members lowest priority on requests, rooms from CRO, anyone who doesn't have a member staying in their room - which would be guests and renters....but I suspect people who treat family would find that unfair - a lot of people treat family for really special events, and I suspect that would make CRO change what they were willing to exchange for trades, making trading out an even worse deal than it is currently. I suspect the Customer Satisfaction would be more interested in hearing what we think is the most fair allocation, rather than "its bad for me!" Those are opinions and hypothesis.