Leverage: anyone considering SSR purchase:

[TCPluto]

I find it interesting it always comes back to this.

Fact is I having NOTHING to gain or lose from this issue whether it remains the same or changes. NOTHING. So how is it all about me?

When one side cant present actual facts it becomes well it isnt just about you, you know!

its ridiculous actually. not too many(if any) are saying dvc sucks the whole thing needs to be scrapped, why did we waste our money, blah blah blah. In my view its quite the opposite, I LOVE dvc, I think its great, and I want to try to help keep it that way. whenI think disney I think of the very best, across the line, in everything. customer service, housekeeping, imagination, upkeep, cleaniness, you name it. I think there is an issue here and I dont think it would be very difficult to fix, thats all nothing more nothing less

Maybe if someone would list some opposing arguements as to why it shouldnt change or cant change then I can rethink my stance, but I havent seen that at all, not in the slightest. Not one single argument as to why members can not guarentee these requests at the 11 month mark and the 11 month mark only.

What is a fact? What facts have been lsited here? I think we see alot of opinions and preferences. But I haven't seen any facts.

I would suggest DVC has quite a few professionally trained hotel management people on staff, who have tackled the issue of getting the most out of room rentals. The more time a room spends empty, the higher the cost to DVC members. I am not willing to have rooms sitting empty and pay the associated price for.

You choose to see what you want, and dismiss everything else, maybe?

 

[tjkraz]

I would love to hear both sides of the story, I am willing to evaluate my position in the matter if someone would post ANYTHING with some factual info in it.

AFAIK, these are the only certainties in the debate:

1. By contract, DVC has no obligation to guarantee requests.

2. The system has been in place since 1991 with no open discussion of change.

3. Disney's entire hotel inventory system is not equipped to guarantee smoking or handicapped preference. Those paying $500 per night to stay at the Poly concierge are subject to the same request system that applies to DVC rooms.

I can't think of any other "factual info" that has been part of this debate.

With that said, here are the roadblocks I see to any changes in the system:

1. It would probably mean a change to the entire WDW reservation system. CRO does have access to DVC room inventory. So one must assume that their computer systems would have to be enhanced to track inventory by S/NS, H/NH. If WDW wants to implement this change across their inventory of 20,000+ guest rooms, so be it. But I don't see the small block of DVC members being able force this change as easily as some imply.

2. Our exchange values for the Disney Collection, Cruises, etc. would almost certainly suffer further. DVC takes the points used for these options and uses them to set aside DVC rooms for rental at cash rates. Less flexibility in the DVC room inventories means less value for the points.

Example: DVC uses traded points to set-aside a Non-Smoking studio at BCV for June 1st 2005. A cash guest tries to book a Smoking-Optional studio at BCV for that date and is told there are no rooms available. The room then goes unbooked. The value of the points decrease.

Yes, this is an overly simplistic example. But the logic, as it would apply to the entire DVC system, is sound.

3. Less wiggle room for the resorts to deal with the unexpected. What happens when all of the non-smoking units are booked to capacity, but the resort discovers that one NS room has a major plumbing leak? All of the arriving guests have printed confirmations that say "guaranteed non-smoking."

IMO, the complaints would get a lot more abusive if you move to a guaranteed system and then have to tell guests they won't get what was promised. Additional compensation may appease some guests--others would be justifiably outraged at not getting what DVC "guaranteed."

And who decides who should have their "guaranteed" room taken away? The last family to book a NS room may have a child with the worst case of asthma in the resort. They were "guaranteed" a NS room along with everyone else that booked--who cares that they booked the last available room in that class?

4. Scenario: BCV is totally booked 6 mos out, including the guaranteed Handicapped-accessible rooms. Someone calls to book a HA room and is told there is no availability--asks to be put on the waiting list. Over the next several months, 10, 20, 30 rooms are cancelled and rebooked for the dates in question, but none of the cancellations are HA rooms.

In the end, you've got one family that really doesn't need a HA room booked into that category and another who would love to visit but can't get the room class they need in order to function. Yes, the family in the HA room could go on the waitlist for a non-HA room. But who's to say they will do that? The people who frequent this board are probably in the top 5% of all DVC members in terms of their knowledge of the program. Outside of our little bubble, there are people who let points expire, people who try to sell their contracts for $50 per point, and people who don't use the waitlist.

5. The "this isn't what I bought into" factor. While many would clearly view this change as a 100% positive move for DVC, others wouldn't necessarily agree--particularly those who can't plan their vacations 11 mos ahead of time and feel they would always be left with the worst-of-the-worst rooms.

I never rendered a judgement as to whether the proposed changes would be better or worse. The bottom line is I just don't see it happening. That doesn't mean I disrespect the opinions of those who do want these changes.

 

[fireplug]

In a word FASCINATING!


Steve

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I remember this past summer that BWV had a pipe leak in the boardwalk views. They took a few rooms out of service and I'm sure some boardwalk views didn't get granted. Rooms are taken out of service, unexpectedly, for various reasons. You could just be out of luck at check-in anyway.

I like the process the way it is. It is exactly what DVC said it would be. They are masters at customer service and I'd bet they labored on this to come up with something that would benefit the broadest membership.

no you wouldnt be out of luck at check in, your guarentee at 11 months bumps someone else "request" of non ha who didnt book at 11 months, therefore that person is out of luck

no problem at all

 

[sjdisneywedding]

You haven't heard, perhaps because you don't choose to listen (ok, read). Tkratz and ChuckS have stated several times why the systems works as it does. While this just may be their opinions, it seems very plausable, if you take the time to consider their thoughts.

nope they only post what the system is now. I hear no arguements against 11 month booking priorities

 

[sjdisneywedding]

What is a fact? What facts have been lsited here? I think we see alot of opinions and preferences. But I haven't seen any facts.

I would suggest DVC has quite a few professionally trained hotel management people on staff, who have tackled the issue of getting the most out of room rentals. The more time a room spends empty, the higher the cost to DVC members. I am not willing to have rooms sitting empty and pay the associated price for.

You choose to see what you want, and dismiss everything else, maybe?

what does hotel management have to do with making alterations, you ever hear of public polls that experts release to the general public to get feed back?

 

[DVCconvert]

I've yet to see a room without a toilet .

I guess you've never stayed in one of the 'special rooms' at
The 'Pot Century Resort' eh?

 

[athenna]

I guess you've never stayed in one of the 'special rooms' at
The 'Pot Century Resort' eh?

Thanks I needed a good laugh!!

 

[lenshanem]

Wow, sjdisneywedding. I'm totally impressed you are still responding back to a few of these people. I'm beyond words at this point. Totally amazed at some of their responses!

 

[jarestel]

Or rather than asking such flippant questions, they could actually read and understand the contracts and rules before they finalize the purchase. Why should their lack of understanding translate into a problem for other owners?

Imagine the posts on this board if DVC ever did change their room assignment policies...
Example: "I booked a NS room... and got one."
Example: "I booked a non HA room... and got one."
Example: "I miss the good old days when I would book a NS room and arrive only to find they had put me in a smoking one. Why did they have to mess with such a great system?"

By the way, Chuck when I signed my "contract", there was a provision in the product understanding checklist that does state that "special preferences are noted, but not guaranteed". It's an umbrella statement written in the broadest possible terms. Nowhere in the contract does it specifically refer to HA or smoking rooms. Since the byproducts of cigarettes contain known carcinogens, your insistance that parents subject their children to this known danger is puzzling.

Additionally, in the purchase agreement, under "Furnishings", it states that the DVC units will have "furniture, appliances, equipment, and accent furnishings substantially similar to or of equal quality to those shown in the model and on the plans and specifications". Well, my Webster's thesaurus doesn't list a bathtub and a shower as synonyms ( substantially similar ) for each other. Maybe your dictionary will though.

So I took your advice and read the contract, but it didn't clear anything up for me.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

AFAIK, these are the only certainties in the debate:

1. By contract, DVC has no obligation to guarantee requests..

I know what the system says, but this is not about what it is, its about what it can become

2. The system has been in place since 1991 with no open discussion of change...

so because it has never been open for change means it never can be right?

With that said, here are the roadblocks I see to any changes in the system:

1. It would probably mean a change to the entire WDW reservation system. CRO does have access to DVC room inventory. So one must assume that their computer systems would have to be enhanced to track inventory by S/NS, H/NH. If WDW wants to implement this change across their inventory of 20,000+ guest rooms, so be it. But I don't see the small block of DVC members being able force this change as easily as some imply. ..

completely disagree, CRO would have absolutely no reason to track s/ns etc, I am referring to ONLY dvc bookings at the 11 month window. thats it.

2. Our exchange values for the Disney Collection, Cruises, etc. would almost certainly suffer further. DVC takes the points used for these options and uses them to set aside DVC rooms for rental at cash rates. Less flexibility in the DVC room inventories means less value for the points.

Example: DVC uses traded points to set-aside a Non-Smoking studio at BCV for June 1st 2005. A cash guest tries to book a Smoking-Optional studio at BCV for that date and is told there are no rooms available. The room then goes unbooked. The value of the points decrease...

naw, disagree again, whats the difference if a smoking or non smoking is set aside, either way it may not get booked. no way at all of telling this

3. Less wiggle room for the resorts to deal with the unexpected. What happens when all of the non-smoking units are booked to capacity, but the resort discovers that one NS room has a major plumbing leak? All of the arriving guests have printed confirmations that say "guaranteed non-smoking." ...

no problem, bump some who didnt make reservations at 11 months since they do not have guarenteed requests

4. Scenario: BCV is totally booked 6 mos out, including the guaranteed Handicapped-accessible rooms. Someone calls to book a HA room and is told there is no availability--asks to be put on the waiting list. Over the next several months, 10, 20, 30 rooms are cancelled and rebooked for the dates in question, but none of the cancellations are HA rooms. ...

cant guarentee requests at 6months, 11 months only.

I understand where you are coming from, you are referring to guarenteed requests throughout. However I am merely looking at the possibility of making it available at the 11 month window. This would give those who desparately need it the option instead of it being a total crap shoot.

It would also give a bit more importance to certain individuals regarding their home resort. You cant have the flexibility of changing resorts and be picky about your room requests, but you can stay at "home" and be picky

 

[Chuck S]

no you wouldnt be out of luck at check in, your guarentee at 11 months bumps someone else "request" of non ha who didnt book at 11 months, therefore that person is out of luck

no problem at all

And if 3 people arrive that day that all booked at the 11 month window, but a rrom goes out of service for a problem...then who gets the room?

If the 11-month ressie was guaranteed, and MS made such an annuncement, you can bet folks would start calling day by day to book ressies any time of year. So it would take more MS phone reps, costing us all more dues.

No matter how you look at it room "guarantees" are not free.

 

[crisi]

What you are proposing is a return to the "preassign based on booking date." That worked ok for years and they could change back. However, it does cause problems for a few. If you weren't here, you might want to search up some threads from people who drove (of flew) all night expecting to get into a room to shower and nap only to wait until after 4pm to check in because their room wasn't ready.

Only DVC knows how many people were unhappy with that system compared to how many complaints they get with this one. Given the number of HA rooms vs. the number of people pulling into WDW before 4pm, logic says HA impacts far fewer people, therefore fewer complaints. From what the Member Satisfaction rep has told people who complain about lack of preassigning, DVC has been quite happy with the room ready policy. Perhaps more people complaining will change that. Personally, we pull in around noon having woken up around 4am to catch a flight - I'd really rather check into a room than wait, and this is making me think I should send off an email telling them how much we enjoyed being able to check in and get our room immediately - even though the room that was "ready" was HA.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

And if 3 people arrive that day that all booked at the 11 month window, but a rrom goes out of service for a problem...then who gets the room?

If the 11-month ressie was guaranteed, and MS made such an annuncement, you can bet folks would start calling day by day to book ressies any time of year. So it would take more MS phone reps, costing us all more dues.

No matter how you look at it room "guarantees" are not free.

The same amount of members overall are going to be calling no matter at what point that call is made. dvc would have to decide how to man their work force I have no idea how it would pan out exactly over the year.

I do agree on your other point, it wouldnt be 100% perfect, but it would be way better than it is now. Its a heck of alot different if you are denied a request because of an emergency that arose than if you are denied just based on luck of the draw. How many times are a bunch of room going to go out of service while at the same time no one who booked that specific request in under 11 months is checking in that day. remember anyone else checking in that day would be moved out of their request first to accomodate the 11 month booker

I am sure some problems will still arise, it is a hotel with everyday problems

 

[jarestel]

What you are proposing is a return to the "preassign based on booking date." That worked ok for years and they could change back. However, it does cause problems for a few. If you weren't here, you might want to search up some threads from people who drove (of flew) all night expecting to get into a room to shower and nap only to wait until after 4pm to check in because their room wasn't ready.

Only DVC knows how many people were unhappy with that system compared to how many complaints they get with this one. Given the number of HA rooms vs. the number of people pulling into WDW before 4pm, logic says HA impacts far fewer people, therefore fewer complaints. From what the Member Satisfaction rep has told people who complain about lack of preassigning, DVC has been quite happy with the room ready policy. Perhaps more people complaining will change that. Personally, we pull in around noon having woken up around 4am to catch a flight - I'd really rather check into a room than wait, and this is making me think I should send off an email telling them how much we enjoyed being able to check in and get our room immediately - even though the room that was "ready" was HA.

With all due respect crisi, I don't think DVC has a clue how rooms are actually assigned at the resorts. Many have reported here of instances of pre-assigned rooms while others are working under the room-ready system. It might be interesting to ask the front desk CM who checks you in next time if they even know what those terms mean.

 

[MiaSRN62]

For what it's worth.....I just want to go on the "record" as saying I totally sympathize with posters like Shan, DivaMom, sjdisneywedding in regards to allergies/asthma and cigarette smoke. I think some posters here have totally trivialized the effects just simply smoke on furniture and drapery etc can have on someone who suffers with allergies/asthma. "Some" of the comments I've read in regards to this issue have really suprised me. I want to thank Kathleena for taking the time to post some of the statements from the American College of Asthma, Allergies and Immunology. I can't state the facts any better than that. I am a nurse and would like to add that children are much more susceptible than adults even. For anyone to question or doubt the seriousness of this needs to do a little more research before posting about it I feel. And I'm saying this in a most respectful way....but please do the homework first. Maybe it seems like we're hearing more and more about this problem and it's probably a direct effect of our world becoming more and more polluted. But to insinuate the statements are exaggerated or made up ????
Children are more sensitive to it because they breathe in more air in comparision with their body weight. Here's just a exert from this site : http://www.smoke-free.ca/Second-Hand-Smoke/health_kids.htm (and I'm sure I could find many more sources, but this one from a Canadian source just spelled it out nicely):
Young children are especially vulnerable to second-hand smoke in the home because:
they breathe more air relative to body weight (and for the same level of exposure will absorb more tobacco smoke toxins)
they are less able to complain (either because they are too young, or because their complaints are ignored)
their immune system is less protective
they are less able to remove themselves from exposure
I can't list all the substances and carcinogens in cigarettes here on this post but just want to add this from that site also :
Even if smoking is restricted to a single room, the harmful constituents of cigarette smoke can be dispersed throughout the house. Many of these highly dangerous chemicals are in invisible gas form.

This article directly states even "smelling" the smoke is bad :http://www.drgreene.com/21_769.html


So, again, just for the record and for what it's worth, I feel NS rooms should never be taken lightly for a medical reason and this includes asthma (and even allergies....particularily where they involve children or are severe). Noone should be made to feel guilty or have insinuations of exploitation (of their family member) thrown at them for reguesting this. I just made a ressie about 2 weeks ago and I requested NS. MS asked if it was for medical reasons and I stated "no". My 18 yo son does have very bad allergies, but he's had them for years and never developed asthma. I get awful migraines (and did mention this), but still didn't put myself down as "medical necessity". IF, I get a room that smells of smoke, I will just have Disney bring down the ionizer or whatever they use. But to just spray the room is ridiculous to me. This was actually suggested on another thread. This just disguises the problem---doesn't get the pollutants that cause the problems out of the air. If we have to, we'll even go out and buy an ionizer, but we won't tolerate smoke smell no matter how many people want to trivialize it. When you're in those villas you're in an enclosed space. We have to sleep in there all night....it's not the same as walking into a store to buy something where someone is smoking or whatever scenario you want to bring. We don't live in a smoking environment at home, so why should we when we're on vacation ?
But granted, I still won't say I need NS for medical reasons---though in my mind and heart I feel I shouldn't have to make this choice. We just took care of my mil this past summer who died in our home from lung cancer. It's hard for us to not see smoke as a major hazard (direct or indirect). I wouldn't stomp my feet and complain at the Front Desk if we're assigned smoking because I realize it's only a request, but I will do my best to get rid of the smell because it's pure toxins and pollutants causing that "smell".
Thanks for listening.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

What you are proposing is a return to the "preassign based on booking date." That worked ok for years and they could change back. However, it does cause problems for a few. If you weren't here, you might want to search up some threads from people who drove (of flew) all night expecting to get into a room to shower and nap only to wait until after 4pm to check in because their room wasn't ready.

Only DVC knows how many people were unhappy with that system compared to how many complaints they get with this one. Given the number of HA rooms vs. the number of people pulling into WDW before 4pm, logic says HA impacts far fewer people, therefore fewer complaints. From what the Member Satisfaction rep has told people who complain about lack of preassigning, DVC has been quite happy with the room ready policy. Perhaps more people complaining will change that. Personally, we pull in around noon having woken up around 4am to catch a flight - I'd really rather check into a room than wait, and this is making me think I should send off an email telling them how much we enjoyed being able to check in and get our room immediately - even though the room that was "ready" was HA.

yep you are right I am sure only dvc knows the comparisons. I see some correlation between the 2 but not complete. if you dont have any requests then you will not have to wait for your specific room.

If you do have specific requests then weigh your options, make the request and risk waiting or dont make any requests.

plus technically check in hasnt changed, you could be left waiting until 4 and still not get your requests.

Ill take get my requests and wait till 4 than not get them and wait till 4

 

[disworldnum1]

I understand that the problem being discussed here has been talked about at over a dozen threads on these boards.The whole problem is the way Disney takes reservations and honors requests.I remember the first visit to the BWV I was told by MS to call the front desk 2 weeks before I arrived to remind them of my requests.I called and was told they don't honor requests and the rooms are assigned on a first come first served basis.So from that trip on I tried to arrive as early as possible and was even allowed to check in before 11am one visit.Unfortunaterly alot of people can quote the contract frontwards and backwards on this board and don't understand that it can be changed and be changed for the better and without cost.It seems to me If I don't go to disney this year someone else will rent the room.I dont think too many rooms are going to be left empty.I also beleive the whole resort can go non-smoking and it would still fill up.I don't think HA rooms are as big a problem as the non-smoking rooms are.I do think Disney should look into changing some rules because it would eliminate 99% of the problems at check in if you knew what you were getting ahead of time, because if you didnt like the room you would have a chance on making different reservations.Having a CHOICE goes along way in my book.

 

[CapeCodFam]

no you wouldnt be out of luck at check in, your guarentee at 11 months bumps someone else "request" of non ha who didnt book at 11 months, therefore that person is out of luck

no problem at all

I'm not a fan of that methodology. I still like the current system. I believe it is fair for all members and not just home resort advantage. Every member today has an equal chance at any resort. What can be more fair than that....

 

[Mike]

Folks - this is only meant to be a funny post. I do not mean to make light of anyone's plight or needs. Please do not take offense. I am not targeting anybody. I am merely trying to point out how I observe "issues" to evolve here and at the same time try to lighten the mood.

Microcosm of a DVC thread:

A non-DIS DVCer: I just returned from a wonderful vacation! We stayed at (Resort X) and it was fabulous. One day there was a mosquito in our room but we quickly got rid of it. It truly was the best vacation of our life.

A DIS DVCer: I am sad to say that Resort X is really starting to go down hill. We just returned from our vacation and we had a mosquito in our room. In 19 previous visits we have never had an insect in our room. We had to call housekeeping several times to get rid of it. And to top it all off the mosquito was rude to us.

DIS DVCer 1: That is unbelievable. I think DVC is really slipping. I think I might sell my points.

DIS DVCer 2: I haven’t made my first trip yet but I am stressing out over this. I don’t even know if I want to go on vacation anymore. Do I have to request a no-insect room. How many people have experienced this? Is this happening to a lot of you? I am going to start a poll to see how many people have had an insect in their room and I’m going to call it “poll to see how many people have had an insect in their room”

DIS DVCer 3: I didn’t spend all of this money to buy DVC to be treated like this. Who can we write to let them know how we feel? If we don’t act now, pretty soon there will be insects in every room. My daughter is allergic to mosquitoes and I don’t want to spend my vacation in the hospital.

DIS DVCer 4: Your daughter is not allergic to mosquitoes.

Moderator 1: I’m moving this thread over to the DVC Community Board.

DIS DVCer 3: Is too

DIS DVCer 4: Is not

DIS DVCer 3: I’m done with this thread – who are you to tell me about my daughter.

Moderator 2: I’m moving this thread over to the DVC Forum.

DIS DVCer 5: I saw a mosquito on a SSR bus and I think it was going to DTD.

DIS DVCer 3: I know I said I was done with this thread but I am really upset. MS should tell me when I book if there is going to be a mosquito in my room. At least I will have the opportunity to change resorts or to bring Raid.

DIS DVCer 6: I was reading through my paperwork and I don’t see anywhere that says we are guaranteed insect-free rooms. You all agreed to this when you signed on the dotted line.

DIS DVCer 7: I have stayed in many timeshares and none of them make this guarantee.

DIS DVCer 3: But this is Disney – we should expect better.

DIS DVCer 8: It is all Eisner’s fault.

DIS DVCer 9: Am I allowed to have five people PLUS a mosquito in a 1BR?

DIS DVCer 10: This wouldn’t be happening if Kerry had won the election.

DIS DVCer 11: I was thinking of buying into DVC but I heard that all of the rooms are infested with insects – no thanks.

DIS DVCer 12: My Guide specifically told me that there would be no mosquitoes in my room when I asked on our tour.


The point I am trying to make is, as someone mentioned a few pages back, maybe ignorance is bliss.