Letting staff go then taking a VACATION?

[SAHDad]

I know. He could cancel the vacation and use the funds to keep the employees instead. Then, if things haven't picked up in a few weeks, he could fire them, right in time for the holidays. That would certainly be better, right?

/sarc

 

[Scurvy]

I don't see the problem. As other posters have pointed out, typically business funds and personal funds are kept separate.

Actually, I take that back - I can see one way this could be a problem. If he's firing people and then bragging to those same people about his trip, that would be pretty darn tacky. But assuming he isn't doing that (and there's no indication that he is, that I can see) I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing. It seems like he has realized that his business doesn't need so many employees and that he is wasting money by paying them. The logical thing is to let them go in a case like that.

 

[Imzadi]

There is a difference between the personal funds, which should be used for the vacation, and the company funds that are used to pay employees.

Anyone who has incorporated their business knows you have to keep personal money allocated in separate accounts. If your corporation gets sued, they won't be able to go after personal money, like the house, college funds, etc.

Likewise, if your business is failing, you have to draw a line on what is business money and personal money, so that again, you don't lose your home or the shirt off your back.

Maybe after all the stress of realizing his business is failing and that he'd have to let two people go, he needs this last vacation? This may be the last vacation he & his wife take for a long time.

Nice that while he's in Vegas having fun and spending money he supposedly doesn't have, his former employees are wondering how they are going to pay the mortgage.

While he probably feels bad for his employees, he's not responsible for them after a certain point. That is what is clinically called: improper and enmeshed boundaries. What, he's supposed to whip himself now that he has to fire people?

Welcome to: Life. It's a risk. It's a risk to own a business. It's a risk to work. It's a risk to work for someone else. It's a risk to leave home. It's a risk to cross the street. When a person says goodbye to someone and that person walks out the door, the other person is not responsible to make sure they cross the street okay - even if his business is on a dangerous, busy street.

 

[Magic Mom]

Gotta love those priorities!

Nice that while he's in Vegas having fun and spending money he supposedly doesn't have, his former employees are wondering how they are going to pay the mortgage.

I pray this economy gets better soon!

The business owner has money (his salary, his investments, whatever.) It's his business that doesn't have enough money to pay the laid off employees. If your employer was in financial trouble, would you take a %60 paycut to keep other employees from being laid off.
My Dad had to lay off employees last month. He couldn't pay them and himself anymore. He was sad about it, but he put the sweat equity into that business, he made the initial investments, he is there late every night, so he should reap the rewards from that business. He took a vacation last week too, and he desrved it.

 

[RitaE]

pretty much what the previous poster said.

The staffing decision really isn't relevant to his vacation plans. He probably needed to let the staff go in order to maintain profitability for the business.

And Business owner's do have a right to pay themselves a salary.

 

[Imzadi]

I don't know which is more disturbing, the fact this person is doing this at all or the fact he is so clueless about how this makes him look that he is telling other people about it? It's his business which means he has the power to change people's lives and is simply choosing not to do so, not out of necessity but 'just because' it's a bother. For what it's worth, I think the guy is a low-life.

How much is an average vacation to Las Vegas? A couple thousand dollars? That's maybe one - two weeks salary for these two employees? That's not a lot of "power" to change these people's lives significantly. As I said in a previous post, after a certain point, peple are not responsible for each other. To believe so is improper and enmeshed boundaries. It is also delusions of power & grandeur to think someone has that much power over another human being's life.

 

[Jennasis]

Hey OP...what is this guy's business specifically?

 

[Imzadi]

If your employer was in financial trouble, would you take a %60 percent paycut to keep other employees from being laid off.
My Dad had to lay off employees last month. He couldn't pay them and himself anymore.

When you get on an airplane, they tell you to put on your OWN oxygen mask FIRST before you help someone else put theirs on.

When you learn to be a lifeguard, you are taught to keep your own life safe and not drown while rescuing someone else. They shouldn't be punished for going back to sit on a nice sandy beach day after day, after not being able to save someone.

 

[AllyandJack]

My mother went to Vegas a few months ago. Her hotel was free. Her meals were free. They gave her money to gamble with, too. She basically went for the $400. it cost her in airfare.

Granted, over the years she's probably sunk a good chunk into the place to warrant such treatment.

And, we're also forgetting something aside from money....maybe there isn't enough WORK for the employees. He might have enough money, but, maybe, he's run out of work to keep everyone busy and doesn't want to pay people to sit around waiting for the next project/job.

We don't know the whole story and he might be headed to Vegas with some slot host footing the entire bill.

 

[Bearvet]

We own a small business (animal hospital) and have been doing everything possible to keep our employees. From getting rid of the water cooler to cutting employer match on Simple IRAs (which affects us personally too) we have cut every possible expense. Our fiscal year ended yesterday with a big loss and doing the budget for next year also projects a big loss. We have to let 2 people go (1 full time with benefits, 1 part time). Both employees have been with us for a long time (10 years) and DH is beyond upset about having to do this to people that have become a second family to him/us. We have to keep our business afloat.

That being said, DH has a trip to Pebble Beach, CA coming up in the next week. This is a trip I'm giving him for his 50th birthday and have paid for with my paycheck from the school I work at. This trip has been booked for 18 months and is all paid for. The timing is not ideal because of how it "looks".
It's not fair to judge someone unless you know the full story.

It's a tough time for business owner too - don't make them the bad guys.

 

[RadioNate]

Are people seriously that naive about business ownership that you think personal funds and business funds have anything to do with each other?

The business could not maintain 2 employees. That has nothing to do with the owners personal finances.

Could he reduce his salary...maybe, I don't know what the guy makes. Is it drawing a million a year? Or $150k?

My Uncle just laid off most of his business staff and is about to declare bankruptcy. His business is failing because his clients aren't paying their bills for his services. He has nearly 2 million outstanding. Should he sell his house? Car? Tap into his retirement to keep people employed for another month or two? One of the people he laid off was his own daughter. The 2 owners and the accountant stayed on to do collections. He is devastated over this. Having to close and put people out of work has been awful but should he personally bankrupt himself for them?

 

[swanmom]

We have a small business. We are truly struggling, and as Bearvet said, we are doing EVERYTHING possible to hold onto the two remaining staff we have. (We've had to let one part-time and one full-time person go.) We scrimped and saved everywhere and reduced our own salaries along with other staff (and this hits us doubly because we both work for the company - both salaries reduced.) That being said, DH and I traveled to Puerto Rico about four months ago. The trip was a business trip for my DH - with his airfare, room and a daily food per diem paid for by the client. I used miles for my airfare. To an outside person, it might look just like the OP seems to be thinking. Not only would they not have any way of knowing how the trip was paid for, but they also wouldn't know that this was the first week we've taken off from the business together in seven years - as we were responsible for everything! No sour grapes here. We knew what we were getting into starting a business but I do have a problem with being judged by others who have no idea what is involved.

 

[BelleWDW]

I stll think its a bit insensetive-he's only been in buisness for a year-small manufacturing-and there's "no work" as he told DH.


The small buisness where I work cut everyone to 32 hours-4 days a week instead of 5. Right after that, even though we are cutting back big time on keeping inventory boss bought 2 new
computer screens and cameras-we already have 4 security cameras (very small buisness-but boss acts like we'e Fort Knox or something
). Anyway-most thought it nuts for him to spend $$ on those things right after cutting everyone's paycheck.

 

[D. Crockett]

I actually understand both sides of this debate.

On one hand, I can see how the OP would have been taken by what they heard, especially if the layoffs & vacation were mentioned in the same conversation. I would've thought it was pretty sleezy myself if someone told me they did/were doing the same thing. Just doesn't come out right.

On the other hand, like it's been reiterated before, the separation of business funds & personal funds ...yadda yadda..we've heard it. But it's true though & makes a valid point. If all of us stayed home and waited for everyone else to be taken care of before we spent $$$ on ourselves...this country would be completely ruined right now.

So it's easy to see where both sides are coming from this time. Any employer who hands out a layoff slip realizes what type of environment they are sending the now-unemployed out into. It ain't pretty. I don't think any employer with an inch of human emotion finds pleasure in doing this to others. But this economic climate is making that tough decision so inevitable for so many small business owners. Like the person encountered by the OP, they had no choice.

So who's side is right in this debate? I honestly can't tell you. When it comes to tough issues like this, I stick with Suze Orman's motto:
"People first, then money, then things."
The problem is, this country has it in the order of #2, #3, THEN #1. And thus, we find ourselves in this nifty little recession we're stuck in.

What the small business owner could have done was take a smaller, less expensive vacation, and use some of the leftover $$$ as out-the-door bonuses for the individuals he's having to send out into the 6-1 job market. Could've made the difference for them & their families when it came to a month's worth of groceries. And when the recession is recovering, then he could start planning a Vegas trip. Given the circumstances we're facing today, I'm sure his wife would understand and appreciate the kind gesture. Just a thought.

 

[Jennasis]

I stll think its a bit insensetive-he's only been in buisness for a year-small manufacturing-and there's "no work" as he told DH.


The small buisness where I work cut everyone to 32 hours-4 days a week instead of 5. Right after that, even though we are cutting back big time on keeping inventory boss bought 2 new
computer screens and cameras-we already have 4 security cameras (very small buisness-but boss acts like we'e Fort Knox or something
). Anyway-most thought it nuts for him to spend $$ on those things right after cutting everyone's paycheck.

I see...you are looking at the issue through glasses tainted with your own personal disdain for the small business you work for and your notion that you've been wronged by them. You may have been wronged, but your neighbors business is not YOUR business nor is it the one you work for.

It may seem insensitive of your neighbor, but it is just the way operating small business is.

 

[AshleyW]

I stll think its a bit insensetive-he's only been in buisness for a year-small manufacturing-and there's "no work" as he told DH.


The small buisness where I work cut everyone to 32 hours-4 days a week instead of 5. Right after that, even though we are cutting back big time on keeping inventory boss bought 2 new
computer screens and cameras-we already have 4 security cameras (very small buisness-but boss acts like we'e Fort Knox or something
). Anyway-most thought it nuts for him to spend $$ on those things right after cutting everyone's paycheck.

Apples to oranges.

Your boss was spending BUSINESS money on what you think are excessive purchases - in that case, maybe employees have a right to be a little miffed.

Your neighbor or friend or whoever was spending PERSONAL money to go on vacation. What he does with his personal money is his business, and has nothing to do with how good or bad his business is doing.

 

[Allison]

It's not insensitive, tacky or anyone's business.

 

[Took]

When it comes to tough issues like this, I stick with Suze Orman's motto:
"People first, then money, then things."
The problem is, this country has it in the order of #2, #3, THEN #1. And thus, we find ourselves in this nifty little recession we're stuck in.

.

My thoughts, too. Also, I keep thinking of the 1951 version of A Christmas Carol when Scrooge's old boss refuses to sell his business to a man whom he knows will ruin it and the employees (shown by the ghost of Christmas past).

Obviously, every case IS different, but, yes, there IS something a bit tacky about a boss who cares first and foremost about his own comfort over that of his employees. JMHO.

Took

 

[Stacerita]

It's not insensitive, tacky or anyone's business.

 

[Imzadi]

It's not insensitive, tacky or anyone's business.

OP, do you think the majority of people who what happens to the money that used to be allocated for there salary goes after they are fired? Do you think most people even know wh is sitting in their desk after they get fired? It's no longer that person's business what their former employer does.

I see similar mentality a lot on various budget/ frugal boards. It's okay to save money, or be poor r struggle towards getting some, but God forbid someone actually have any to spend and people are vilifying that person.

A teacher once said to me, "That which you criticise, you can not have."