Let's speculate about Polynesian some more!

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I guess you're calling me obtuse?

I disagree with what you write here.
Once you have bought, because of the resale restrictions, your RIV contract immediately loses its resale value. Anyone buying from you will have restricted points so they will pay less for it.
Also, the resale restrictions won't help you to trade into other resorts with restrictions. There will be fewer people competing at 7 months, but there will be also fewer people trading out because they cannot. The balance is probably neutral.
The resale restrictions help only Disney, they don't help owners in any way. Except, it might feel them better because they own something they have paid more to get a right that others don't have.
That's an illusion of exclusivity.

Thanks for your feedback. Like I said, I don’t want to argue, you’re not the bad guy here and I’d like to hope that I’m not either, but we’re clearly not going to agree on this situation so let’s just leave it here.

But I’ll agree that Disney is the only one who benefits from restrictions. I was neither for them nor against them, at first, because I assumed that was the way DVD was moving forward and maybe they still are, I just wish I knew then it was going to be less of a part of DVC projects than I expected. I’ll work on my expectations.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

The restrictions also work from another angle… I can’t use my resale points at RIV, which is a beautiful resort I adore. I don’t need to buy RIV points but I do need to use my direct points or buy more direct points from RIV or somewhere to stay there. DVC is not just targeting RIV buyers with their restrictions. They want to steer all buyers to direct. If you want to have the option to stay at all DVC resorts including RIV, VDH, likely CFW and resorts we don’t know about yet, you now need to buy directly from Disney. That’s their strategy. There are currently enough restrictions that this strategy works even without restricting existing association expansions at VGF and Poly. I’m not saying I like it. I’m just saying this is Disney’s strategy.

Yeah I could see this being their rationale . Seems silly to me when resale only blocks you from 2 current projects and 1 we’re not sure about. Doesn’t seem like enough of a push to go direct for a lot of people. If they’re in it for the really long haul, I could see this working somewhat.

 

[maui22]

I’ve just started wondering whether DVD will announce that the Ft. Wilderness Cabins are simply the first phase of the Ft. Wilderness DVC Resort, which will be completed by a new building including traditional studios and 1, 2, and 3 bedroom villas to be constructed on the site of Reflections.

Posted this same thought on another thread.
Disney publicly stated PVB was a mistake never to be repeated because of the limited room options.
Tower as part of PVB resolves the oldest glaring DVC association mistake.

Only way CFW makes sense is if they build what would have been Reflections and make it part of the same association.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Only way CFW makes sense is if they build what would have been Reflections and make it part of the same association.

I think someone on here did mention their guide told them there would be different room types available at CFW so this could explain that

 

[Genie+]

I guess you're calling me obtuse?

I disagree with what you write here.
Once you have bought, because of the resale restrictions, your RIV contract immediately loses its resale value. Anyone buying from you will have restricted points so they will pay less for it.
Also, the resale restrictions won't help you to trade into other resorts with restrictions. There will be fewer people competing at 7 months, but there will be also fewer people trading out because they cannot. The balance is probably neutral.
The resale restrictions help only Disney, they don't help owners in any way. Except, it might feel them better because they own something they have paid more to get a right that others don't have.
That's an illusion of exclusivity.

This has changed though.

Resale value is relative to other options. Adding more and more new unrestricted DVC points is a double punch.

Trust was given RIV resale value could be less impacted by restrictions once other resorts came along for RIV to compete with. That hasn’t happened and punch 2 is it’s becoming more of a resale anomaly, not less. A significant amount of points have been created into the WDW pool with a distinct advantage over RIV resale.

And all for what? Restrictions that ended up not really all that important.

RIV buyers were presented a trade-off. Yes, it was heavily expected resale value would be impacted by restrictions. But those same restrictions meant not getting locked out of future DVC and it turns out nobody is, well except for their resale buyer.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

This has changed though.

Resale value is relative to other options. Adding more and more new unrestricted DVC points is a double punch.

Trust was given RIV resale value could be less impacted by restrictions once other resorts came along for RIV to compete with. That hasn’t happened and punch 2 is it’s becoming more of a resale anomaly, not less. A significant amount of points have been created into the WDW pool with a distinct advantage over RIV resale.

And all for what? Restrictions that ended up not really all that important.

RIV buyers were presented a trade-off. Yes, it was heavily expected resale value would be impacted by restrictions. But those same restrictions meant not getting locked out of future DVC and it turns out nobody is, well except for their resale buyer.

Thanks for explaining this so well.

 

[maui22]

I think someone on here did mention their guide told them there would be different room types available at CFW so this could explain that

I still think Disney should call this River Country DVC. Give it the best pool on property (after all dues will pay for it). I would even suggest a lazy river.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I still think Disney should call this River Country DVC. Give it the best pool on property (after all dues will pay for it). I would even suggest a lazy river.

Not a bad thought. Could be what pushes people to own there, restrictions or not

 

[tidefan]

Not a bad thought. Could be what pushes people to own there, restrictions or not

https://www.disboards.com/threads/j...ed-before-in-relation-to-the-new-dvc.3934900/

 

[BamaGuy44]

I don’t have a horse in this either, but we’re not exactly talking about some arcane legalese interpretation of what “new resort” means. They built a new building, where an old building used to be, at the Polynesian resort, without even so much as room for its own bus stop. That’s not a new “resort,” just by the plain language of it.

Could they have built a new resort at the location? Maybe. But we’ve known at least for a while that it’s part of Poly (even if we didn’t know the association decision, nor when that was decided).

That’s one interpretation and it’s reasonable. I also don’t think it would be unreasonable to call a brand new building from the ground up with its own pool(s), own restaurants etc a new resort. Especially when they have shared basically no information about it since they announced it.

I’m not interested in debating the definition, just saying they suck at defining their terms and communicating clearly, leading to a lot of confusion.

I mean look at the answer from yesterday. Couldn't even commit to it part of the Poly resort even though obviously it is. Just "that’s currently the plan to be part of the same resort, but hey you never know." No mention of association, even though that was what thebquestion was. I won't be gaslighted into thinking that's not ambiguous lol

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

View attachment 816493

At $230 or $250pp I’m not sure incentives could get it down much under $200pp.

Any guesses to best price on 150pts in the first 2 years?

$195pp seems high but still reasonable around $4pp/py. Keeping it under $30k complete could help sales.

If they start at $250/pt (which I don't think is settled), I can easily imagine them getting it down to $190...but not sure about at 150 points. My guess Is that they are going to target larger purchases so maybe you'll need to buy 250 or 300 to get the best pricing. Hypothetically:
-$25/pt "pre-sale bonanza" for everyone buying over 150pts
-$5/pt for anybody with an upcoming Disney vaction
-$10/pt for DVC Owners...
That gets you to $210, which would be about $190 with MB (depending on how they value them), from there you get another few dollars off each point when you buy an extra 50 points?

Broken. VGF2 looked like an exception. Not anymore. The likelihood has decreased that resale will lock us out of all or most new DVC additions.

Restrictions are part mind game. DVD opened them. They can get more then they bargained. All the advantages and buyer motivation have a flipside.

I generally agree with Genie's analysis. One other thing I'm wondering is that maybe warning about resale restrictions worked TOO well-- in particular, pretty much all of the resale prices have slid dramatically this year, and more people are buying direct because they don't want to get locked out...but that circles back to hurting direct sales of new product if people can buy RIV, BLT, AKV, and CCV for close to $100/pt. And, for buyers like me, it was easier to pull the trigger on VGF at $161 because I was pretty confident I could sell it around $140 or more if my life plans changed... I would never buy RIV at $175 or even $161 when resale is regularly below $125. I guess this is a long way of saying that resale restrictions have hurt RIV.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Complaining that other people have the same is just mean. You want to feel good about having something that others don't? OK, but you were not promised that.

This is exactly what it boils down too. People complaining now are annoyed that resale owners will have access, and are wondering why people aren’t sympathetic to their point of view.

 

[maui22]

I think someone on here did mention their guide told them there would be different room types available at CFW so this could explain that

Very happy it will have multiple room types available.

 

[BeachClub2014]

This is exactly what it boils down too. People complaining now are annoyed that resale owners will have access, and are wondering why people aren’t sympathetic to their point of view.

Who are those people? I haven't seen folks complaining about resale owners having access. I only recall seeing the opposite.....resale owners being happy that their points could potentially be used at the Poly Tower.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Who are those people? I haven't seen folks complaining about resale owners having access. I only recall seeing the opposite.....resale owners being happy that their points could potentially be used at the Poly Tower.

Every riviera owner who is currently complaining.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Every riviera owner who is currently complaining.

Interesting perspective. This Riviera owner isn't complaining about resale points being potentially available for use at the Poly Tower, so I guess it really isn't universal.

 

[mamaofsix]

I still think Disney should call this River Country DVC. Give it the best pool on property (after all dues will pay for it). I would even suggest a lazy river.

The site plans for Reflections did have an extensive pool area and a lazy river.

 

[Sandisw]

Every riviera owner who is currently complaining.

This is simply not true. I am a RIV owner and never once said I am bothered because resale owners get access to the tower.

Not one other RiV owner who has posted has said or even implied that. The concerns and frustrations expressed, as I have said a few times now, is with the way DVD has handled this and its message regarding the future of the program when it comes to restrictions.

 

[StevieB81]

"Speculate" is in the title of this thread. And speculate we did. People made very good arguments as to why their thoughts were correct and convinced themselves they were right. Weeks. Months. Years? These boards do this ALL THE TIME. And now some people, who convinced themselves of something with zero input from an actual decision maker, are a little peeved. Why did Disney not communicate better? Why this, why that? Meanwhile, I can imagine DVC thinking "why would it NOT be the same resort? It's literally at the same resort. All we did was finish it." We got ourselves all worked up for a decision that, in the end, was really no decision at all IMO. It was fun though.

 

[Sandisw]

"Speculate" is in the title of this thread. And speculate we did. People made very good arguments as to why their thoughts were correct and convinced themselves they were right. Weeks. Months. Years? These boards do this ALL THE TIME. And now some people, who convinced themselves of something with zero input from an actual decision maker, are a little peeved. Why did Disney not communicate better? Why this, why that? Meanwhile, I can imagine DVC thinking "why would it NOT be the same resort? It's literally at the same resort. All we did was finish it." We got ourselves all worked up for a decision that, in the end, was really no decision at all IMO. It was fun though.

To be fair, if that was really DVDs thinking they would not have kept it quiet for almost two years.

Regardless of what the end result has become, DVD definitely wanted people to think that it might become a new resort and potentially have restrictions.

It benefited them to have people debating this.