lesbians need not apply

[Bluestars]

And it only took until now to bring up sex between siblings.

From your reaction I can tell that you think this is morally wrong. So, I guess you might discriminate between these people based on their sexuality. I'm just using it as an example. The way you feel about two siblings is the way some people (not me) feel about two people of the same gender. Does that make you wrong? No. Does that make you right. No. We all draw our own lines.

 

[momto2girls]

Many very religious people believe that sex between two men or two women is morally wrong. They have a right to believe that. However, when their beliefs are forced on someone else, that's where they are overstepping their conduct.

The church school has a right to have a set of values, a code of conduct, and moral beliefs that they choose. Nobody is forcing other people to enroll in this school or adopt those beliefs. If you don't agree with it, don't enroll.

I will have to add that it is a shame that this school expelled those girls. If I were one of them, I wouldn't want to go there anyway. I don't think any liberal person would be happy in a rigid, religious school.

ITA with all of this. It seems so simple to me. It is a private, church school that is allowed to set the moral code for its students. They get to make the rules.

 

[Bluestars]

How can this be about civil rights? Would you join a church and then sue them because they asked you to leave their church when they found out you practiced Wiccan (or whatever)? When you join a private group with their own morals and agree to abide by those morals, don't cry discrimination just because they do not change them for you.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

What exactly is the code of conduct, and what did they do?

So you are saying that pubic scandal is worse than sin - to a Christain school?? Sinning students can stay, but others must be kicked out of it creates a scandal? Wow.

If a student is openly engaging in immoral behavior and other students see that behavior, then they will believe that it is OK if the school does not take disciplinary action.

Here's another situation we dealt with. We had a student that had an alcohol problem. The student was routinely coming to school under the influence and it was noted by other students. Our principal spoke to the student and the parents and offered to help get the student into a program at the local hospital (not affiliated with any church) to help with the addiction. The parents and the student refused to admit that there was a problem and wanted their child to stay in school. The principal felt that other students would see this as tacit acceptance of that behavior by the school if the behavior continued, and made the decision to expel the student after the next time they came in to class under the influence. It wasn't the result anyone at the school wanted-because we wanted this child to get help, but we could not overrule the parents, nor could we expose the other students to it.

That's what I meant by "public scandal", it's sort of a buzzword in Christian school circles for instances like that.

 

[Goofyluver]

From your reaction I can tell that you think this is morally wrong. So, I guess you might discriminate between these people based on their sexuality. I'm just using it as an example. The way you feel about two siblings is the way some people (not me) feel about two people of the same gender. Does that make you wrong? No. Does that make you right. No. We all draw our own lines.

Did I offer my opinion?

I just find the comparison interesting. And it's one that comes up quite often.

How can this be about civil rights? Would you join a church and then sue them because they asked you to leave their church when they found out you practiced Wiccan (or whatever)? When you join a private group with their own morals and agree to abide by those morals, don't cry discrimination just because they do not change them for you.

We are legally allowed to discriminate against gays and lesbians in this country. Period.

Was THIS church within their rights to expel these girls?

Sure.

That doesn't change the fact that discrimination against gays and lesbians is accepted and is not given the same legal protection in this country as discrimination against other groups.

 

[Bluestars]

I agree that people in this country discriminate against gay and lesbian
people. I agree that it is wrong. I think they should be allowed to be married.

The only thing I disagree with is trying to force a private church school to alter their own moral beliefs. They have the right to operate their private school in the way they deem fit. If they believe something is morally wrong, they have the right to expel the student.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Did I offer my opinion?

I just find the comparison interesting. And it's one that comes up quite often.



We are legally allowed to discriminate against gays and lesbians in this country. Period.

Was THIS church within their rights to expel these girls?

Sure.

That doesn't change the fact that discrimination against gays and lesbians is accepted and is not given the same legal protection in this country as discrimination against other groups.

One last hypothetical and then I've got to get off this computer for the night! I'll be back on tomorrow to continue if you're all still on this.

If next week, the federal government passes some kind of legislation that put sexual orientation on the same footing with racial discrimination-would the school still be within their rights? (of course, that would be assuming that they accepted no federal funding)

 

[yeartolate]

I agree that people in this country discriminate against gay and lesbian
people. I agree that it is wrong. I think they should be allowed to be married.

The only thing I disagree with is trying to force a private church school to alter their own moral beliefs. They have the right to operate their private school in the way they deem fit. If they believe something is morally wrong, they have the right to expel the student.

I actually agree with this.

But I would add that a church run school kicks out because two possibly gay teens hugged each other, I would say that they are not doing what Jesus would do. My feeling is that Jesus would not shun who he pereived as sinners....because we are all sinners.

But I believe they have the right to run their hurch the way they want. That being said, I am more than iffy about any church that disriminates in this manner should be allowed tax exempt status or any public funds they may receive from the government.

 

[Bluestars]

I actually agree with this.

But I would add that a church run school kicks out because two possibly gay teens hugged each other, I would say that they are not doing what Jesus would do. My feeling is that Jesus would not shun who he pereived as sinners....because we are all sinners.

But I believe they have the right to run their hurch the way they want. That being said, I am more than iffy about any church that disriminates in this manner should be allowed tax exempt status or any public funds they may receive from the government.

I also agree that they would not be doing what Jesus would do if they kicked out the girls. But that is my belief. I wouldn't try to force it on them, just as I would not want their beliefs forced on me.

As far as discrimination, you could say they discriminate on children based on intelligence since you have to take a test and pass with a certain score to enroll. You might say they discriminate against drug addicts because they might expel someone who does drugs. I think a private school has to be a good fit between the student, the parents, and the school. If not, move on.

 

[RitaE]

I actually agree with this.

But I would add that a church run school kicks out because two possibly gay teens hugged each other, I would say that they are not doing what Jesus would do. My feeling is that Jesus would not shun who he pereived as sinners....because we are all sinners.

I'm not so sure. According to the Bible, he did kick the money changers out of the Temple because he felt their actions were a disgrace to his Father. Again, this goes back to the idea that Jesus was not the "I'm ok, you're ok" sort of guy popular culture makes him out to be.

So I would counter that if Jesus felt homosexuality was wrong and the perpetrators were not seeking forgiveness or change, it is at least possible that expulsion is exactly what Jesus what do.

 

[yeartolate]

I'm not so sure. According to the Bible, he did kick the money changers out of the Temple because he felt their actions were a disgrace to his Father. Again, this goes back to the idea that Jesus was not the "I'm ok, you're ok" sort of guy popular culture makes him out to be.

So I would counter that if Jesus felt homosexuality was wrong and the perpetrators were not seeking forgiveness or change, it is at least possible that expulsion is exactly what Jesus what do.

Ya think he would cut slack to a couple of teenaged girls guilty of hugging?

 

[CowboyCO]

I actually agree with this.

But I would add that a church run school kicks out because two possibly gay teens hugged each other, I would say that they are not doing what Jesus would do. My feeling is that Jesus would not shun who he pereived as sinners....because we are all sinners.

But I believe they have the right to run their hurch the way they want. That being said, I am more than iffy about any church that disriminates in this manner should be allowed tax exempt status or any public funds they may receive from the government.

What did Jesus say to the woman who was being stoned for adultery? "Go - and sin no more"

He didn't say "Aww that's okay- It's just how you are." He said stop sinning.

 

[jimmiej]

Christianity doesn't prevent sinnin'.

Sure it does. 100%? No, but when a person becomes a believer, their life changes. As a person matures spiritually, they become more and more like Christ. As Christ increases, sin decreases.

 

[yeartolate]

What did Jesus say to the woman who was being stoned for adultery? "Go - and sin no more"

He didn't say "Aww that's okay- It's just how you are." He said stop sinning.

Well hen you have just showed me that jesus was one screwed up individual, especially for a messiah. Thanks for clarifying. If that is what jesus would do, lock the sucker up.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

This song I love to sing at church just reminded me of this whole thread, so I thought I'd print a verse from it for my post:

We will work with each other, we will work side by side
We will work with each other, we will work side by side
And we'll guard each one's dignity and save each one's pride
And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love
They will know we are Christians by our love

 

[Goofyluver]

What did Jesus say to the woman who was being stoned for adultery? "Go - and sin no more"

He didn't say "Aww that's okay- It's just how you are." He said stop sinning.

Hey you! Stop bein' heterosexual!

Sure it does. 100%? No, but when a person becomes a believer, their life changes. As a person matures spiritually, they become more and more like Christ. As Christ increases, sin decreases.

Isn't one of the goals of becoming more Christ-like to become more loving and forgiving? Does acceptance and non-judgment come along with those virtues, or no?

Ahem...comin' from a non-believer. Just a question...

 

[jimmiej]

I'm not so sure. According to the Bible, he did kick the money changers out of the Temple because he felt their actions were a disgrace to his Father. Again, this goes back to the idea that Jesus was not the "I'm ok, you're ok" sort of guy popular culture makes him out to be.

So I would counter that if Jesus felt homosexuality was wrong and the perpetrators were not seeking forgiveness or change, it is at least possible that expulsion is exactly what Jesus what do.

Absolutely! I gave two Scriptural examples earlier. One was Jesus speaking to one of the seven churches. He was upset with that church for tolerating sinful behavior in their midst.

 

[jimmiej]

Isn't one of the goals of becoming more Christ-like to become more loving and forgiving? Does acceptance and non-judgment come along with those virtues, or no?

Ahem...comin' from a non-believer. Just a question...

Love the sinner, sure. Tolerate continued sinful activity by church members? Absolutely not.

James 5:19-20 (New International Version)
19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

 

[Goofyluver]

Love the sinner, sure. Tolerate continued sinful activity by church members? Absolutely not.

James 5:19-20 (New International Version)
19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

So then the answer was no.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

I think Jesus as an outspoken radical would have clearly stated that homosexuality was offensive to him, as he clearly stated he found other actions to be sins, if he truly felt homosexuality were a sin.

Since he didn't, we cannot infer that he meant to and just forgot. Nor can we necessarily be comfortable with inferring that he was accepting of homosexuality.

However, if his judgments and pronouncements regarding actions he felt were sinful are going to be held up to scrutiny, and used for examples of required behavior, it is telling in some ways that he never mentions homosexuality to be a sin or an offense. If it were that offensive to him, you'd kinda' think he'd have said something about it like he did the other acts he is reported to have deemed unacceptable.