Kodak is gone from the Imagination Pavilion.

[yitbos96bb]

They are being removed as you typed this.

Obviously the sponsorship deal is still in effect to some capacity. Disney is not known to give ANYTHING free to anyone, including advertisers. Deals like this just don't end with no notice. In any type of contract like this written by even a semi competent lawyer would require notification. Unless an agreement is reached (and it is entirely possible that one has been), DIsney could not remove signs, logos, etc that are agreed upon in said contract until the deal had expired.

However, I do question the total validity of this rumor. Ignoring the signs still up at JII and logos on the maps, Kodak has had a relationship with Disney for 55 years. Given the plethora of articles about venerable companies and hard times, the 24 hour news cycle and transparency laws for public companies, if this were true, the business press would have picked up on it IF Kodak was severing all ties with Disney... Just like it was news when Disney and McDonald's seperated, when several companies stopped sponsoring NASCAR over the last year or two, etc. Not saying its Front page news, but a google search would turn up some articles on the subject if true.

I do think its entirely possible they will still end sponsorship of JII (and may already have although until the signs come down, they are still contractual sponsors of the attraction), I do not believe that there sponsorship of the maps has ended at this time. The evidence disputes the claim.

Now, I'm not saying it couldn't eventually happen. In fact given the $.50 per share loss reported a month ago in their earnings report, its entirely possible. And it is entirely possible they waited a day after Disney's earnings report to give notice. But you jump the gun reporting things as fact when no proof of it exists. Call it a rumor.

 

[yitbos96bb]

1) Oops.
2) This is going to cost WDW a bundle.
3) Sure, Imagination support was a lot of bucks.
4) But, as the sponsor, Kodak paid for ALL of the parks maps/guides & printing.
5) That is a lot of money.

NOTE: I wrote a while ago that sponsorship at WDW was being withdrawn by many companies. Being a sponsor is no longer the automatic business-magnet it used to be. People are not automatically patronizing WDW sponsors like they are with NASCAR - who have the most loyal patrons of sponsiors of any sport. Welcome to the real world, WDW.

Actually, the evidence of NASCAR loyalty is diminishing greatly. Several large sponsors have left because the loyalty doesn't exist anymore and they want to focus the money elsewhere. TV ratings are down, Merchandise and ticket sales are down and total revenue is down, which is interesting. I could understand Merchandise and TIcket sales in a bad economy, but the TV ratings are the ones that hit home. Especially since Nascar made changes and brought back things fans liked, such as double file restarts.

 

[Figment632]

Obviously the sponsorship deal is still in effect to some capacity. Disney is not known to give ANYTHING free to anyone, including advertisers. Deals like this just don't end with no notice. In any type of contract like this written by even a semi competent lawyer would require notification. Unless an agreement is reached (and it is entirely possible that one has been), DIsney could not remove signs, logos, etc that are agreed upon in said contract until the deal had expired.

However, I do question the total validity of this rumor. Ignoring the signs still up at JII and logos on the maps, Kodak has had a relationship with Disney for 55 years. Given the plethora of articles about venerable companies and hard times, the 24 hour news cycle and transparency laws for public companies, if this were true, the business press would have picked up on it IF Kodak was severing all ties with Disney... Just like it was news when Disney and McDonald's seperated, when several companies stopped sponsoring NASCAR over the last year or two, etc. Not saying its Front page news, but a google search would turn up some articles on the subject if true.

I do think its entirely possible they will still end sponsorship of JII (and may already have although until the signs come down, they are still contractual sponsors of the attraction), I do not believe that there sponsorship of the maps has ended at this time. The evidence disputes the claim.

Now, I'm not saying it couldn't eventually happen. In fact given the $.50 per share loss reported a month ago in their earnings report, its entirely possible. And it is entirely possible they waited a day after Disney's earnings report to give notice. But you jump the gun reporting things as fact when no proof of it exists. Call it a rumor.

They end like this all the time for any proof of that see hoe Nestle left the Land and how Metlife left WOL.

The days of sponsorship of theme park rides are numbered imo.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I still don't see the appeal of putting a rarely known cartoon from the Disney Channel into Epcot as a main attraction, it's one thing for Kim Possible (which was cancelled?) into a small activity, but I can't see the global appeal of Phineas and Ferb..which I never hear about unless I'm on these boards.

Besides, there's only 2 characters which should ever be in Journey into Imagination...Dreamfinder and Figment.

Kim possible ended... it wasn't cancelled. Disney actually brought it back for another season. They aren't really known for going past 60-80 shows of a series (it was 63 for years)... They make enough to play them ad nauseum on the Disney channel.

This has been changing over recently however... I think the HM cash cow showed them the true potential but thats speculation.

 

[yitbos96bb]

They end like this all the time for any proof of that see hoe Nestle left the Land and how Metlife left WOL.

The days of sponsorship of theme park rides are numbered imo.

I read about both ending in the business section of the paper when the companies decided to end their relationship. In fact they talked about how long certain aspects would remain in place before they are changed.

No one said that the days of sponsorship of theme park rides aren't numbered. In fact, the part I questioned is them entirely severing their relationship as the map sponsor and official photo company of DIsney, etc.

I said its entirely possible that this happens. However, A complete sponsorship withdrawal would show up in the papers. And until those signs are removed and map logos removed, they are still sponsors. Otherwise Disney couldn't continue to use them without permission and I doubt they would even if they had permission. They could have those signs removed overnight if need be. Not this long drawn out procedure.

More likely if the relationship is at an end, its end date is sometime in the future... lets use Oct 1 for example. Disney will continue to use the Maps and have the signage until park close on Sept 30. Overnight the JII kodak signs will disappear as if Kodak never existed. THe maps will be replaced with new Kodak logoless maps for Oct 1 and onward. Its not a multiday event.

It seems the most likely thing is that Kodak's sponsorship of JII will end shortly, while they continue their park level sponsorship.

 

[nytimez]

Deals like this just don't end with no notice. In any type of contract like this written by even a semi competent lawyer would require notification. Unless an agreement is reached (and it is entirely possible that one has been), DIsney could not remove signs, logos, etc that are agreed upon in said contract until the deal had expired.

Just because we're hearing about it now doesn't mean there was no notice. It's actually been rumored for months now, and while that doesn't make it true, there's enough smoke here to suggest there's a fire somewhere.

 

[Galen_50]

Actually, the evidence of NASCAR loyalty is diminishing greatly. Several large sponsors have left because the loyalty doesn't exist anymore and they want to focus the money elsewhere. TV ratings are down, Merchandise and ticket sales are down and total revenue is down, which is interesting. I could understand Merchandise and TIcket sales in a bad economy, but the TV ratings are the ones that hit home. Especially since Nascar made changes and brought back things fans liked, such as double file restarts.

Sponsors are pulling out of Nascar mainly because it has become too expense to sponsor a car. The rating are down mainly in the older demographic and this is for a couple of reasons. One reason is for the same reason many do not want characters at Epcot, change. Older fans remember what they consider the good old days and do not like the new car that Nascar started using three years ago, even though the racing is better today than it has been in years. Second, alot of older fans are followers of Earnhart and after his death start following his son. with this new car, Junior has not been able to get the feel of it and has only won one race in three years. Alot of Senior fans have given up on Junior felling he is never gonna be like his father and moved on. with other sports, there is team loyality, no matter who is on the team. With Nascar, when the driver leaves, so do some of his fans. Finally, Nascar has the problem right now that basketball did when Chicago and Michael Jordan where winning championship after championship, the same person has won the championship four years in a row and until someone beats him, some fans will not follow until they feel there is a reason.

As for characters at Epcot, I feel that for children they are a welcomed thing. I went to Epcot over 20 years ago when there where not characters anywhere and for me as a kid it was the most boring place anywhere, just alot of walking. And right now, as everyone has been talking about on the boards, Disney wants to keep people in their parks instead of them going to Islands of Adventure. I can understand not wanting the characters, but a family of four spends alot more than a couple or a single adult. Not just in admission, but more food and snacks, merchandise, and other things. And there really is not alot for families with younger children without the characters. The major attractions such as Soaring, Teas Track, and Mission Space are not for younger children.

As for Phineas and Ferb, JII is probably the best fit in all the parks for them. I not saying anything about changing the ride or a major overhaul of the area, just a meet and greet. There show is all about using your imagination and creativity. It is about being outside and doing things, not sitting at home and watching tv.

Finally, just because the signs are still up does not mean that Kodack has stopped their sponsorship. It takes time and money to change the signs and they more than likely could not start changing them til s certain period in time after the agreement ended.

 

[Figment632]

Sponsors are pulling out of Nascar mainly because it has become too expense to sponsor a car. The rating are down mainly in the older demographic and this is for a couple of reasons. One reason is for the same reason many do not want characters at Epcot, change. Older fans remember what they consider the good old days and do not like the new car that Nascar started using three years ago, even though the racing is better today than it has been in years. Second, alot of older fans are followers of Earnhart and after his death start following his son. with this new car, Junior has not been able to get the feel of it and has only won one race in three years. Alot of Senior fans have given up on Junior felling he is never gonna be like his father and moved on. with other sports, there is team loyality, no matter who is on the team. With Nascar, when the driver leaves, so do some of his fans. Finally, Nascar has the problem right now that basketball did when Chicago and Michael Jordan where winning championship after championship, the same person has won the championship four years in a row and until someone beats him, some fans will not follow until they feel there is a reason.

As for characters at Epcot, I feel that for children they are a welcomed thing. I went to Epcot over 20 years ago when there where not characters anywhere and for me as a kid it was the most boring place anywhere, just alot of walking. And right now, as everyone has been talking about on the boards, Disney wants to keep people in their parks instead of them going to Islands of Adventure. I can understand not wanting the characters, but a family of four spends alot more than a couple or a single adult. Not just in admission, but more food and snacks, merchandise, and other things. And there really is not alot for families with younger children without the characters. The major attractions such as Soaring, Teas Track, and Mission Space are not for younger children.

As for Phineas and Ferb, JII is probably the best fit in all the parks for them. I not saying anything about changing the ride or a major overhaul of the area, just a meet and greet. There show is all about using your imagination and creativity. It is about being outside and doing things, not sitting at home and watching tv.

Finally, just because the signs are still up does not mean that Kodack has stopped their sponsorship. It takes time and money to change the signs and they more than likely could not start changing them til s certain period in time after the agreement ended.

Phineus & Pherb in JII has to be the worst idea I have every heard of. It doesn't work and besides the pavilion already has a character.

 

[nytimez]

Phineus & Pherb in JII has to be the worst idea I have every heard of. It doesn't work and besides the pavilion already has a character.

Agreed. A Phineas & Ferm M&G would be perfect in the Animation Courtyard at DHS... not JII.

 

[Figment632]

Agreed. A Phineas & Ferm M&G would be perfect in the Animation Courtyard at DHS... not JII.

It is sad IMO that Disney can't come up with original attractions anymore and they are dumbing down their parks to the level of a 3rd grader.

The parks were not supposed to be a place for kids. They have always supposed to have been a place where parents and children can have fun together. Now our society has been dumbed down to a level that every attraction has to involve a Disney character.

DL was great because every thing besides FL was a new idea not a Disney character. Look at some of these attractions that were original.

Pirates
Jungle Cruise
HM
BTM
SM

 

[pilferk]

What Nemo did was make the entire pavilion no longer fit in FW. There is no defending it and there is no way you can say that Nemo fits the theme of FW.

It no longer fits into what you want to pigeonhole Epcot into. I agree with that.

Does it fit with what DISNEY wants Epcot to be? I think it does.

Again, you're perfectly within your right to disagree with that direction. But you're measuring "success" and "failure" by your own desires in relation to Epcot.

Disney is measuring success and failure, I'd bet, by how many guests find the attraction interesting enough to experience (and then how much merchandise it sells). I don't think there's any arguing that guest throughput at the new Nemo version is much higher than the previous incarnation was over the few years before the rehab.

Also I have seen the plans for JII 4.0 there are several options and they all invovle Figment and most involve Dream Finder.

Exactly. It's a moot point. Disney isn't going to listen to me, or do what I'm suggesting.

Slapping new characters like Nemo and the plans (thank gogd they were shot down) for Monters INc. in UOE is what I call the dumbing down of Epcot.

And it's what Disney calls broadening the appeal to a different demographic.

Explain to me how adding cartoon characters to the pavilions follows Epcots mission statement.

To all who come to this place of joy, hope and friendship, welcome.
Epcot Center is inspired by Walt Disney's creative genius. Here, human achievements are celebrated through imagination, the wonders of enterprise, and concepts of a future that promises new and exciting benefits for all.

May Epcot Center entertain, inform and inspire. And, above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere.

I don't see how using a different medium of presentation (existing cartoon characters) PRECLUDES carrying out that mission statement, either. I would say "Ellen's Energy Adventure" sticks to the above mission statement pretty well. How would "Phineas and Ferb's Journey into your Imagination" be considered any different. Who the "host" of the attraction might be is only one small piece of the content of the attraction, itself. Who helps lead the "celebration", so to speak, doesn't mean things don't "fit" with the concept.

Again, the answer is all this is that your "traditionalist" sensibilities are going to influence any opinion you have on this....it's about what YOU want. So when you say "It's the dumbest idea, ever", I recognize that your bias is what's influencing that opinion. Not an objective vision of what could be done with the attraction. And I'm OK with that. Which is why I suggested we just agree to disagree.

 

[pilferk]

It is sad IMO that Disney can't come up with original attractions anymore and they are dumbing down their parks to the level of a 3rd grader.

The parks were not supposed to be a place for kids. They have always supposed to have been a place where parents and children can have fun together. Now our society has been dumbed down to a level that every attraction has to involve a Disney character.

DL was great because every thing besides FL was a new idea not a Disney character. Look at some of these attractions that were original.

Pirates
Jungle Cruise
HM
BTM
SM

Balanced with several rides themed around their existing animation properties.

And we've seen Tower of Terror, Rockin' Rollercoaster, many of the attractions at AK, Mission:Space, Soarin' and Expedition Everest added to the parks.

I don't see nearly the imbalance, in recent years, that you are seeing. They seem to work a pretty good balance between original attractions and existing properties.

 

[Figment632]

You have explained nothing because you can't. It is called Future World explain how Nemo fits in the theme of the future please.

Also Epcot is supposed to Educate as well as entertain. Please tell me what the ride teaches beside we are in a big blue world?

 

[pilferk]

You have explained nothing because you can't. It is called Future World explain how Nemo fits in the theme of the future please.

Also Epcot is supposed to Educate as well as entertain. Please tell me what the ride teaches beside we are in a big blue world?

Man, we're ranging pretty far off the JII topic, huh?

Honestly, I"m not really trying to explain anything. I don't really need to because I'm not Disney. All I can do is put forth why it works for us. I don't work for Disney, either. I also don't have strong feelings, one way or the other, about Nemo (which really seems to get your dander up). But I'll take a crack at some of your objections:

How did "The living seas" (which was basically a large aquarium) fit prior to the Nemo facelift? All the Nemo facelift really did was introduce a new "host" and setting (no more "Sea Base Alpha").

The exhibits (other than the intro) are pretty much exactly the same. I don't think the removal of they "hydrovators" and the difference in the ride through portion make all that much of a difference to the CONTENT of the pavillion.

As for education: It's an exploration of the seas, just as the last incarnation was. It teaches (if you take the time to actually experience the exhibit, and not just the intro and gift shop) a TON about ocean life. You might have to actually read a bit, or listen to the CM's manning the exhibits....but the content is still there.

The difference is the intro is a bit more interesting to the younger sect. I know, for the kids I've seen, it actually encourages them to then go out and check out the rest of the exhibits. They want to know more about "Nemo's world". It's an interesting tool that's proven to be effective in other children's educational settings.

 

[ChrisFL]

Disney is measuring success and failure, I'd bet, by how many guests find the attraction interesting enough to experience (and then how much merchandise it sells). I don't think there's any arguing that guest throughput at the new Nemo version is much higher than the previous incarnation was over the few years before the rehab.

There was problems because they didn't keep the attraction up to standards, the seacabs was closed years earlier and the rest of it was not kept up. Disney has done that many times, they'll neglect the older attractions (especially if they don't have a sponsor) until the attendance and rider satisfaction goes down then they have an excuse to tear it out and replace it.

That was a polar opposite approach to the brilliant designers who built EPCOT Center to try to at least partially fufull Walt's Legacy. Tearing out the educational and futuristic attractions to turn them into Fantasyland South is not the right direction.

 

[Figment632]

Man, we're ranging pretty far off the JII topic, huh?

Honestly, I"m not really trying to explain anything. I don't really need to because I'm not Disney. All I can do is put forth why it works for us. I don't work for Disney, either. I also don't have strong feelings, one way or the other, about Nemo (which really seems to get your dander up). But I'll take a crack at some of your objections:

How did "The living seas" (which was basically a large aquarium) fit prior to the Nemo facelift?

The exhibits (other than the intro) are pretty much exactly the same. I don't think the removal of they "hydrovators" and the difference in the ride through portion make all that much of a difference to the CONTENT of the pavillion.

As for education: It's an exploration of the seas, just as the last incarnation was. It teaches (if you take the time to actually experience the exhibit, and not just the intro and gift shop) a TON about ocean life. You might have to actually read a bit, or listen to the CM's manning the exhibits....but the content is still there.

The difference is the intro is a bit more interesting to the younger sect. I know, for the kids I've seen, it actually encourages them to then go out and check out the rest of the exhibits. They want to know more about "Nemo's world". It's an interesting tool that's proven to be effective in other children's educational settings.

Hmm do we have a futistic sea base on the botum of the sea I don't think so that is how it fit.

Disney is cheap when it comes to WDW. I am telling you Nemo was by far the cheapest choice that is why it happened.

I would have no problem with the ride if it were in DAK or DHS.

 

[pilferk]

Hmm do we have a futistic sea base on the botum of the sea I don't think so that is how it fit.

Disney is cheap when it comes to WDW. I am telling you Nemo was by far the cheapest choice that is why it happened.

I would have no problem with the ride if it were in DAK or DHS.

So your objection is that it's not "sci fi/futurisitic" enough?

Neither is Ellen's Energy Adventure. Neither is "The Land". Neither is Test Track. Neither, really, is JII.

So you have Mission:Space and Spaceship Earth, and maybe, arguably, innoventions.

To me, future world is about experiencing and learning about the things that may effect our future. It doesn't have to be about every theming element being something out of a futuristic Sci fi setting.

And, since I don't know what the causes for Disney's choices were, I'll not speculate. If you "know" it was because it was the cheapest option, more power to you. I don't. What I do know is that, circa 1999, that attraction was severely short of guests. Circa 2009, that was certainly not true.

Cheap or not, it seemed to have accomplished what Disney wanted it to.

 

[BayouMickey]

How does Soaring fit in FW? does Ellen's show anything futuristic? except for the last part of SE there's nothing futuristic, TT again not futuristic.
Basically 98% of attractions have really nothing to do with the future. And the ones that do, are mostly history lessons with a brief synopsis of what the future could be. So how does Nemo fit? Same as the rest of the attractions.
Your point is moot.

 

[Figment632]

So your objection is that it's not "sci fi/futurisitic" enough?

Neither is Ellen's Energy Adventure. Neither is "The Land". Neither is Test Track. Neither, really, is JII.

So you have Mission:Space and Spaceship Earth, and maybe, arguably, innoventions.

To me, future world is about experiencing and learning about the things that may effect our future. It doesn't have to be about every theming element being something out of a futuristic Sci fi setting.

And, since I don't know what the causes for Disney's choices were, I'll not speculate. If you "know" it was because it was the cheapest option, more power to you. I don't. What I do know is that, circa 1999, that attraction was severely short of guests. Circa 2009, that was certainly not true.

Cheap or not, it seemed to have accomplished what Disney wanted it to.

No there should be no Sc-fi at all in EC that is what TL is for. Epcot should be a realistic look at the future.

You keep bringing up UOE but that no longer fits in FW either because it is about 20 years outdated on the material it teaches.

FW is a complete mess and in the worse shape it has ever been in.

Sea: I won't go there you already know my problem
JII: is a shell of its former self.
Test Track: In no way shape or form fits in FW way to modern. This is an easy fix because they only need to change the pre and post show to make it work.

MIssion Space is fine

UOE: Like I said 20 years behind the times
SSE: Is ok but needs to have the ending finished

The Land is in the best shape: But Soarin needs some tweaking.

 

[Figment632]

How does Soaring fit in FW? does Ellen's show anything futuristic? except for the last part of SE there's nothing futuristic, TT again not futuristic.
Basically 98% of attractions have really nothing to do with the future. And the ones that do, are mostly history lessons with a brief synopsis of what the future could be. So how does Nemo fit? Same as the rest of the attractions.
Your point is moot.[/QUOTE]

Nope read my next post FW is in the worse shape ever. Either change the name from FW to DIscovery World or start fixing these attractions.