Kids kicked out of Oceaneer's Club

[Laurajean1014]

My friend's child was asked to leave the Oceaneer's club????

He was hiding from another child who was hitting and the attendents told my friend that her child was disruptive and not working with the group.

Has this happened to anyone else?

 

[floridaminnie]

From some of the posts on the boards that I read, I was wondering if my daughter would be kicked out of the club. Not because I expected her to be "bad", but she has never been in a daycare setting before. She was not thrown out of the club. I was paged just once, when she was told she couldn't do something and she was crying and they couldn't stop her. She also overflowed a toliet and got into a cat fight with another girl. They never told me that she only had one more chance or anything. They way that I handled all the situations was my 3 yr old dd and I had a talk about how she needs to behave and what would happen if she doesn't. I also let the counsolers know that her behavior was not acceptable and she and I had a talk. They were taken back by my response. I don't know if they usually come across parents that their child can do no wrong and their child will be going to the club b/c they paid for it. (I'm a teacher so I see this a lot myself) By the way my daughter's behavior did improve, so we never had any major issues after that. Hope that helps!

 

[Kelsie]

When we were there last month, a 7 year old boy was asked to leave. It seems he would grab kids by their necklace and was hurting a lot of them. He stayed out 2 days and was let back in if he behaved.

 

[jellymoon]

I think it is perfectly appropriate to ask children to leave if they are misbehaving, particularly if they are harming other children. I carry this same opinion over to child care programs and other places where kids gather at home. Unfortunately, my dear son is frequently the object of ridicule due to his disability (he does not provoke it) and I am very clear with parents of offending children that parents have a responsibility to teach their children to be respectful of all, and that it is not appropriate to hit, kick, punch or demean an individual because of their disability. Parents of a child who does such a thing should not just be embarrassed, but deeply ashamed of such woeful transgressions and should clearly communicate to their children that such behavior is not appropriate under ANY circumstance.

If this was happening in the clubs, even one time, I think there should be a zero tolerance policy for that type of thing. You hit or kick someone, you harrass someone because of their race or nationality or ability you should not be welcome to return. End of story.

I have a friend who travelled last summer and her son chose not to return to the clubs. The children were mean to him, making fun of his unique facial features (he also has a disability) and his special needs. To me it is a shame that this innocent boy had to lose out on the fun of the clubs instead of the shameful children who chased him away. It should have been THEIR vacations that were disrupted and THEIR parents who were inconvenienced--- not the family of the innocent child. As well, in terms of OPs question, it seems the child that should have been removed from the club was the child that was hitting. Not the child that was hiding and trying to protect herself.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well said, Jelly.... It seems like I hear way too many stories of the unbehaved children making things unenjoyable for those around them. I have been concerned about this with my DS 5, who is not special-needs, but who will be very sensitive to any other kid harassing him (hitting, pulling, pushing, drowning at the pool...)

Sometimes a closer look reveals that what appears to be kids-being-kids is really completely inappropriate behavior.

So, it is good to hear as well that sometimes the offending child/family is the one who is identified and held responsible!

PS: Laurajean, thanks for answering my PM's on this!

 

[Cruising GrandMa]

I am new to these boards, but have been viewing for a few weeks now. I was interested in this thread because I am cruising in Sept 2003 with my gradson, who lives with me. He will be 7 at the time of the cruise.
My gradson has ADHD. He is on medication, but it wears off after about 6-7 hours. I know he will enjoy the club, but I have a concern about his behavior after his meds wear off. He is a very sweet child, does not have a mean bone in his body and would never hurt another child, but he does get highper and after the meds wear off, his attention span is short. He is use to being redirected because of this, but I don't know if the Cm's will be willing to take the time to redirect him? And not just ask him to leave.? Has anyone here cruised with an ADHA child? Can anyone give me some insight on their experiences with an ADHA chid in the clubs and on the cruise, in general?
I really would love to hear of any experiences.
Thanks

 

[gottaluvdisney]

You should really let the counselors know that your grandson has ADHD and that he is on medication. Also you should go to the club to check on him at medication times. They cannot give you grandson the medication, but they can note it in their computer that he is on medication and probably would understand the behavior change.

 

[gottaluvdisney]

You should really let the counselors know that your grandson has ADHD and that he is on medication. Also you should go to the club to check on him at medication times. They cannot give you grandson the medication, but they can note it in their computer that he is on medication and probably would understand the behavior change.

 

[gottaluvdisney]

You should really let the counselors know that your grandson has ADHD and that he is on medication. Also you should go to the club to check on him at medication times. They cannot give you grandson the medication, but they can note it in their computer that he is on medication and probably would understand the behavior change.

 

[gottaluvdisney]

You should really let the counselors know that your grandson has ADHD and that he is on medication. Also you should go to the club to check on him at medication times. They cannot give you grandson the medication, but they can note it in their computer that he is on medication and probably would understand the behavior change.

 

[Cruising GrandMa]

The medication is time released and only give once per day, at breadfast. There would be no need for the CM's to concern themselves with his meds. Of course I would inform them that he is ADHD, but that was not my question. I need to hear from parents that have cruised with DCL with a ADHD child and their experiences with the club and the cruise, in general.
Thanks for your input

 

[PiperG]

Originally posted by jellymoon
Unfortunately, my dear son is frequently the object of ridicule due to his disability (he does not provoke it) and I am very clear with parents of offending children that parents have a responsibility to teach their children to be respectful of all, and that it is not appropriate to hit, kick, punch or demean an individual because of their disability. Parents of a child who does such a thing should not just be embarrassed, but deeply ashamed of such woeful transgressions and should clearly communicate to their children that such behavior is not appropriate under ANY circumstance.

This is a little off-subject, but I just wanted to respond to Jellymoon. My husband's brother is 44 and has developmental disabilities. He has been living with us and DS (now 5 1/2) for almost 4 years. We moved him into our house for a variety of reasons, one being the experience and understanding it would teach our son. He understands that Uncle Richard cannot do everything normal adults can do (drive, read, problem solve etc.). However, he has also learned that Uncle Richard has a huge capacity to love, which is the most important thing.

My hope is that DS5 will always treat any disabled children or adult with complete respect.

 

[peg2001]

It is common for children to say insensitive things to someone who appears or acts different because of their curiosity and inexperience. So, they may ask a child "what is wrong with your face?" "why do you use those crutches?" or "why do you talk like that?" IMHO, these things must be expected and forgiven. However, taunting, name-calling, pushing, or hitting must be reprimanded. A zero tolerance policy for misbehaving while in the kid's clubs is going too far. Kids will be kids, which includes behaviors that are not acceptable and should be corrected.

Peggy

 

[Fawn]

Originally posted by Cruising GrandMa
The medication is time released and only give once per day, at breadfast. There would be no need for the CM's to concern themselves with his meds. Of course I would inform them that he is ADHD, but that was not my question. I need to hear from parents that have cruised with DCL with a ADHD child and their experiences with the club and the cruise, in general.
Thanks for your input

OK, this is just in my humble opinion, but it comes from the parent of 6 children...3 of whom are diagnosed ADHD, and 1 ADD...and all on one med or another at one time or another! LOL

1. Tell the counselors, and explain any particular behaviors your grandson exhibits when his pills wear off...and what you do to handle it.

2. Pick one counselor to talk to privately. I did this with my girls about another issue on our first cruise, and she kept an eye on them all week....she was wonderful!

3. Consider talking to Doctor about his meds. I know that my children's neurologist will give them an extra dose for times we need it. He feels that they should not miss out on the happy times any more than they should miss out on the educational times. Hence, if they need an extra dose to enjoy the nighttime activities, give it to them!

4. If all else fails, plan to give him his pill based on the schedule of when he wants to be at the club. If it lasts only 6 hours, and his favorite activity is scheduled at 4pm...don't give it until 11 am or noon. The rest of the time, plan to be with him doing family things...like the pool. That way you can keep an eye on him.

Last, have fun. Your grandson is lucky to have you in his life offering him these opportunities!

 

[JJRide]

*********************************************
I need to hear from parents that have cruised with DCL with a ADHD child and their experiences with the club and the cruise, in general.
Thanks for your input
*********************************************
I took my ADHD son (8 3/4 yr.) at the end of May 02'. He was medicated by me and I did not feel the need to worry because I had planned to pick him up before the medication would wear off. I understand your concerns. You sweet and loving child will be just that, sweet and loving.
I told the cm's if there was any problem, I could be paged, and he was just fine. Good luck and happy cruising to you!

 

[jellymoon]

Originally posted by peg2001
It is common for children to say insensitive things to someone who appears or acts different because of their curiosity and inexperience. So, they may ask a child "what is wrong with your face?" "why do you use those crutches?" or "why do you talk like that?" IMHO, these things must be expected and forgiven. However, taunting, name-calling, pushing, or hitting must be reprimanded. A zero tolerance policy for misbehaving while in the kid's clubs is going too far. Kids will be kids, which includes behaviors that are not acceptable and should be corrected.

Peggy

Just because its common doesn't make it right. A zero tolerance policy for this kind of abhorrant behavior in our society will go a long way towards ending it. My child should not have to patiently describe his medical condition to anyone who asks. He shouldn't have to be "tolerant" of someone calling him a "retard". He shouldn't have to leave and not be able to participate because some other parents failed in their responsibility to teach their children to act with common courtesy and respect. There is a huge difference between asking "Why do you use those crutches?" (still inappropriate, but at least not offensive) and "What is wrong with your face?" (insulting, laden with judgement, extremely hurtful and offensive).

Schools, day cares, etc would never tolerate kids calling others the "N" word or the "K" word. Why on earth do we tolerate calling people retards, ridiculing them, hitting them, excluding them, and all of these other things? It is easy to say "kids will be kids" when it isn't YOUR kid on the receiving end of such bigotry on a regular basis.

I stand by my zero-tolerance policy. There is no reason a child with a disability should have to lose the opportunity to enjoy those clubs just because of some bratty, insensitive children who ridicule him or ask inappropriate questions or tease him or call him names. The offending child should be the one turned away, and his family should be the one inconvenienced. THen maybe the parents will finally have the motivation to instill some basic values in their children.

Sorry. I feel pretty strongly about this one. Perhaps you can't understand until your child has lived it. But, it isn't my kid's job to teach anyone else about tolerance. It is his job to be a child. I am tired of him missing opportunities not because of his lack of interest or lack of ability, but rather due to the cruelty of other children. IN terms of disabilities, it is often the attitudes of non-disabled people which become significantly more limiting than the disability itself. My son has had his self esteem crushed since he was about two years old with other kids taking toys away, calling him names "Stupid. Your stupid!" "I won't play with you, retard." "Go away idiot" or making fun of his slurred speech. This ends up excluding him because he is embarrassed, hurt, and afraid. IT is WRONG that he misses the opportunities and not these other children. I'm tired of hearing from these kids' parents: "oh, he didn't really mean it" or "oh, he's really a nice kid." You know what? If the kid does it, he's NOT a nice kid. Not even a slightly nice kid. The worst kind of disability one can have is a lousy personality--- and that is what these kids (and their parents) suffer from.

 

[pal2pluto]

Jellymoon, I am sorry for the insensitivities you/your child has endured. Would you help me teach my child the sensitive and proper way to interact w/someone who appears different than what they are used to being around? Realize that I'm learning, too. I would tell my child to ignore the difference and still play, but I know that my child would be so curious and want to ask why. Is is improper? Would asking help my child understand but only hurt the other child? Sometimes, like I've seen on Sesame Street, children are told it's okay to ask, but continue to treat each other w/respect.

Teaching our children to be sensitive and caring is an important lesson in today's world where there are so many differences, either physical, emotional, or mental. You've seen your child hurt, and I in no way want my child to hurt others.

 

[jellymoon]

Kris,

Thanks for the question. And I should really clarify that there is a HUGE difference between asking an honest question, and asking one meant to harm. There's a huge difference between asking a question ("Oooh. That's pretty cool. How does that talker work?") and ridicule ("You are such a retard" or "you are so weird" or "what's wrong with your face?").

With my other children, I encourage them to just go ahead and play. Sometimes, when we get to know each other better there might be questions that are more personal that we ask each other. More questions along the lines of "whys", like "How come you need to use a walker?" Think of it as making a new friend as an adult. You may realize they are a single parent, but you probably wouldn't ask why the first time you met her. As your relationship deepened, more information would probably be exchanged.

At school, I make an effort to invite questions regarding my son's disability. I have a nice write up I give to each of his teachers, and we always try to address the most "curious" issues at the beginning of the school year. Now that my son is olde,r we include him in this process. This way, we're able to acknowledge that the other kids probably have questions and "neutralize" it pretty quickly. In a community like a school I think it is much more appropriate to ask questions and to exchange information than on a playground, for example.

Of course, kids will ask questions but if they do they need to be respectful, and they need to be aware that the other child might not want to talk about it. "I'm sorry, but that is none of your business" is a perfectly appropriate response from a person with a disability. Most of the time, people are willing to talk. But sometimes it can be exhausting when all you really wanted to dowhen you left the house was to enjoy a game of pick up basketball at the park.

My kids would encounter swift and severe punishment if I ever heard them namecalling or ridiculing on the basis of disability (or anything else for that matter). For example, if we were at a park and my daughter started taunting someone we would leave immediatley, have a stern conversation and she would spend a substantial amount of time in her room. It only takes responding in this way once or twice for a child to know this is not acceptable behavior. I consider name calling, taunting, teasing and exclusion to be as severe offenses as hitting, punching, kicking or stealing. My kids all know that and have learned it. Should any of them ever violate that, they will find themselves in a heep of trouble as described above--- and will also find themselves writing a letter of apology to the offended and hand delivering it.

I think kids would have far fewer quesitons if we did a better job as a society of implenting a truly inclusive culture. It has taken tremendous energy on ourparts to keep our son included with typically developing kids. Most of the kids that know him now have known him forever. And, with some eggregious exceptions, most love him and just know he is who he is. Going to a new place where he is unknown is always hard. Parks, restaraunts, museums and other places where lots of kids congregate are always a little dicey. He did have some trouble at the Oceaneers Club, and for the most part chose not to participate in activities there because he had been ridiculed. Probably, a lot of those kids at the Oceaneers Club hadn't ever been around a kid with a disability before--- which is stinging indictment of our public policy and educational practices. As long as we continue segregating children from each other, we will continue to have these conflicts. There are millions of chlidren with disabilities in the United States--- close to 10% of children in every community have disabilities. Unfortunately they are segregated and separated, often hidden in the corners or the margins of community life. Thus, people think it is an oddity to meet such a child--- when in fact there are so many kids just waiting to participate in community life.

Hope this helps. In short, the most sensitive and appropriate way to interact with someone who appears different--- is to interact the same way they would with everyone else. Do they have common interests? Do they want to play the same game? If so-- play and enjoy the new friend, just as you would any other friend.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Cruising Grandma,

Know we are like getting pretty deep here, off topic, relating to the questions asked here. But I too think this is a great thread.
I have been on the board here, and a lot of other online stuff as well, and it has seemed that I hear of parents/grandparents being paged fairly easily and quickly. Not that kids are being 'kicked out', but if the child seems ready to leave, does not want to participate in the many 'structured' activities, ( Check out the sample kids Navigators, lots of cool sounding stuff! ), then the counselors will not hesitate to page you. Good, cause you know if your pager is quiet, then your kid is doing great!! Maybe not so good if you get paged for a small reason, right when you were enjoying your time away from the kid(s). Hope this helps!!

I also have to comment about the zero tolerance thing... for the most part I agree. Kids are masterful at doing things they shouldn't, just when adults are looking the other way. I was being 100% literal, not just figurative, when I said "Often a closer look reveals that what seems to be just kids-being-kids is sometimes actually completely inappropriate behavior". And I saw the perfect example on national TV this summer. This is related, even though it does not have to do with how kids treat each other... The story was about drowning... The piece showed footage of a kid almost drowning, while those kids and adults swimming and playing just a few feet or yards away did not even realize it, because they were not really looking, and did not know the tell-tale signs. Believe me, when it is my kid, I AM looking!!! So, too a point, I agree with the zero-tolerance thing. Other than of course, the occasional incident when it is just kids-being-kids. It appalls me how many people are accepting of such verbal and physical innapropriate behavior!! My son is being taught that you must ALWAYS keep your hands to yourself, and, if you do not have something NICE to say, then say nothing at all!!

I am SOOOO happy with the new MissAmerica's platform, which is violence and bullying (including verbal) among children. I hope she is able to start a foundation to continue her work after her year is up! This should never be accepted or written off as kids-being-kids. On Good Morning America a week or two ago, she did a segment, including bullied children, illustrating how, due to this very prevailing attitude, it is almost ALWAYS the bullied child who is asked to explain 'why' or 'how', they may be to blame, then told to toughen-up, or to somehow change their behavior, or to pull-out ( ie. If you can't stand the heat....), INSTEAD of the bully being asked to explain, asked to change their innapropriate behavior, or being kicked-out.

So, count me in with the zero-tolerance crowd. Well maybe not 100% ZERO tolerance... But almost!

 

[MelissaE1]

Hi Jellymoon,

It sounds like you make a great effort to help people feel comfortable around your son. I agree that taunting and teasing should absolutely not be tolerated. If one of my children ever did that to someone with a difference or disability, I would come unglued.

I do have one question about your comments, and I hope it comes through in a friendly tone. Why is a young child asking about crutches or the like inappropriate? I see your point about how we as adults would not ask personal questions until a friendship had been formed, but young children, while certainly able to understand not to be mean, do not understand all the nuances of relationships yet. If my child asked another child about crutches in the interest of being friendly and that child said "It's none of your business" I wouldn't blame my child if they didn't try again. Why is it more appropriate for the disabled child to be rude? If they don't want to explain perhaps a simple, friendly response would be appropriate, like "they help me walk." Shouldn't tolerance work both ways?

I know how I feel when someone insults one of my kids and I cannot imagine how I would deal with it on a regular basis as you have to. I try the best I can to teach my kids kindness, consideration and tolerance. If you have any suggestions about how I could help them approach a person with a disability, I would love to hear them.