Kids kicked out of Oceaneer's Club

[SC Minnie]

My DD8 was born with a cleft palate and as a result 'talks funny'. She has no visible scars and no one would know it unless we told them. She does sound different and is sometimes hard to understand but she is going to speech therapy to help with this. Frequently she comes home crying because a kid asks 'why do you talk like that?'. I have tried to help her with some of the answers- I have explained the reasons (she has had 5 major surgeries, the last one was 1 1/2 yrs ago) so she can explain them to others if she wants too. I have tried to tell her to tell others that this was how God made her. Most of the time she ignores them because she doesn't want them to know she is different- she just wants to fit in.

I have explained that everyone is different and everyone has something about themselves that they don't like, ie. too heavy, too short, big ears, crooked teeth, etc., but that is what makes us all different. I have told her that if everyone sounded and looked exactly the same the world would be a very boring place. I think her situation has helped her become more tolerant of others who are 'different'. At least I hope so. I have tried to instill in her that what people look like on the outside doesn't count, only what's on the inside.

It is VERY hard to see your child hurt because of ridicule. You can't put a bandaid on feelings.

 

[jellymoon]

I don't think it is rude for a child to respond that their medical history is not anyone else's business. Genetic syndromes, medical conditions, etc. are all very personal. Most of the time, children and adults are more than happy to answer the question. But, it is also very personal. A child shouldn't feel compelled to answer or talk about something they might not want to. For a lot of these kids, they are constantly being asked these same questions over and over again. On some days, enough is enough. The child shouldn't feel compelled or responsible to educate someone else about a particular disability. I think it is possible to say "I'm sorry, that is none of your business" or "That is personal, and I don't want to talk about it" without being rude. And, I think it is the child's right to do so. We would never permit our children to ask someone: "How come you're so fat?" It is a personal question. When asking a personal question, we should all be prepared that the person we've asked won't want to respond.

hope this answers the question

 

[Eisai Babe]

As a mother of a child with bi-polar disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, and anxiety disorder, I guess I can throw in my own 2 (or 5 or 6) cents on this subject.

My child has been in very difficult social situations since he was first in kindergarten. It has been a yearly struggle with behavior issues from other children, and from him. My job as his parent is not to teach him how to blame other children for their lack of understanding or downright cruelty, rather my job is to teach him how to handle the cruelty that the world throws at him. Growing older doesn't end it. People just get sneakier in the way they express themselves.

My son is one of those very sensitive children who will cry if someone looks at him with a frown - well, he's gotten better with age, but he is still sensitive. I finally learned (with the help of his counselor) how to teach him to use his sensitivity and understanding instead of let it beat him up. Now, he finds ways of looking for other kids who seem to be on the "outside" of the social circle and befriends them. Don't misunderstand. We still struggle with the effects of rudeness and childhood cruelty, but he is learning to take responsibility for his REACTION to other kids instead of letting their behavior control his feelings.

I believe parents should teach their children about differences in everyone, and how to behave around those who aren't "like" the majority. At the same time, I know this isn't going to happen, so I believe more in helping my son develop ways to cope and be a happy person with character, courage, and strength.

Okay, stepping off my soapbox now.

 

[jellymoon]

Becky,

Those points are very well taken. I think we are looking at this from a couple different perspectives though. My child is developmentally disabled. He has some pretty significant cognitive limitations. He doesn't have the same abilities for "self-talk" and reflection that a child with bi-polar might have. He never has a negative response directed towards someone else--- it is always directed inwards towards himself, introspective, sometimes putting him into a depression. He also has obsessive compulsive disorder and the fears he develops in relation to people having been cruel to him can prevent him from moving forward in other situations. A good example having nothing to do with bullying: there was a thunder storm that terrified him. He perceived that the storm was coming at him through the window. After the storm, he was terrified not just of that window but of all windows. We talked about this, did social stories, talked about how he could "change the channel" in his head, that storms can't "get you, etc." Despite that, any window we saw sent him into terror--- we're talking teeth chattering terror. And let me tell you, windows are not a good choice for an obsessive compulsive fear. LOL I never realized how many windows there were until this happened. This went on for the better part of a year.

My point is that of course there is a level of responsibility that we each have to take for ourselves. Some of us are better able to do that, are better able to reason through some people make bad choices and it doesn't really mean I'm bad. But others of us have cognitive challenges that really stand in the way. If someone says to my son, "Beat it retard, or I'll knock your teeth out" he believes his teeth will really get knocked out. If someone tells him he's stupid or that he can't do something, he'll believe that he really is stupid (which he isn't, there is a difference between stupidity and mental retardation) or that he really can't do the thing. He is not the only kid like that.

I guess my point it--- of course. We all need to find ways to "toughen up our skin" so to speak, and we certainly work on that with our son to the best of his ability, and we are always helping him strive for the next level of ability. But even that doesn't excuse the poor behavior of others. There is no excuse for the way my little guy--- and the hundreds of thousands of other individuals with developmental disabilities are treated each day. There is a very persvasive and generally condoned harassment of people with DD--- we wouldn't accept it for any other minority group. I refuse to accept it for my son, and as such while teaching my son to stick up for himself as best he can I will continue insisting that children be held to the highest possible consequences when they engage in bullying, ridiculing, or discriminatory behavior towards my son or any other child.

 

[imgoingtodisney]

As a mother of DS10 who is a little chubby I also have to speak up here. This past summer we went to Jellystone Park in Nh for a mini-vaca. They have a rule not allowing boys into the pools with tank tops/mesh tops on. My self-conscious DS spent the weekend out of the pool because he would not take his shirt off. Im hoping on the Magic he can get inside the pool.
He's just now beginning to take his shirt off in front of me when he's dressing. So yes, he is very familiar with people being different.

 

[Laurajean1014]

If I ever had a concern regarding my DS6, I would speak to the head counselor at OCC and discuss it with them.

A friend has a special needs childs and discussed the DS inabilities with the counselors. He told me that they offered him an aide in a smaller group to handle his needs.

I have found the couselors to be helpful and understanding of needs. My son kissed one counselor every night when he left. He said she made him feel special and liked her very much.

That made me feel terrific!

 

[peg2001]

jellymoon,

I just had to post again and let you know that I think you sound like a wonderful parent doing the best possible for your son. With your first posts on this thread, I thought you sounded a bit extreme in your defense of your son against the cold cruel world but with your later posts I caught a glimpse into your situation and have a better understanding of where you're feelings are coming from.

I wish the best for you and your son.

Peggy

 

[Wishing on a star]

LauraJean,
Thanks for the wonderful story!
I plan for DS and myself to spend a little time at the club on that first "get aquainted" night. And, with a little pixie-dust, maybe DS will have a great counselor like yours did!

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes this is off the original topic, but this is an interesting thread, and the most wonderful heartwarming story just came to me....

At our local grocery store they have some developmentally disabled (is this the right term???) people work as baggers. At first it seemed kind of strange to walk in and see them there. And, to converse with them, as they are always like WAY friendly!

Well, soon I realized that I really liked these folks and their big smiles... My little son got to know one of the guys, and although we do not shop there often anymore, when we do go there, he always asks, will we see Scott??? Is Scott here today!!

So, here is the story... To set it up, another of these guys is actually married to a special needs lady, and his wife also works there thru the same program. He is the kind of guy with a really short stocky build, and a big jovial grin... Well, one day, it was a totally miserable afternoon, chilling cold, dark gray day, misting rain. One of those really awful days, where you are NOT in the greatest mood, and just wish you didn't HAVE to make that stop at the grocery store. Well, sure enough, this guy was the one to bag my groceries. Of course I only picked up the few items that I needed, so I reached to take the bags myself. He offered to bring them out to my car if I wanted... No, I said, pointing out that it sure was a yucky day for having to work outside.... His response nearly floored me. As I was trying to bundle up my son, juggling him, groceries, purse, keys, etc... walking out the door, he said with his usual huge grin.

"Ohhh, It is great day, can't wait to get home and warm up, snuggling with my wife!"

Boy, what positive thinking and insight!! This guy really has his priorities straight, and knows what life really is about... Here I have EVERYTHING going for me, and I was in a really yucky mood... Don't we all have a LOT to learn from what some would call a "retard"!!!

(Please, no offense at using that word at all! Just seemed to really bring home my point.)

 

[jellymoon]

Nice story. The word does bring the point home even better.

Speaking of grocery stores (as we're off topic anyway, lol) one of our local stores switched to automated check out lines. You scan your own things, and then pay with cash or credit. One of the tellers at the next line was complaining about all the patrons that couldn't figure it out, would be given directions, come back the next time and STILL Get it wrong. Then she said: "What's been kinda strange is that the only people that get it right all the time after being shown once are our mentally handicapped customers." She then postulated that it is because they listened to the instructions, were patient with the machines and carefully followed the directions rather than trying to take shortcuts or force the machines to work faster than they could. LOL

I do feel like I should add that this thread has definately brought out the Mama Bear in me on a topic that is near and dear to my heart. That said, my son has a fantastic life, is a happy guy and we feel so blessed to have him in our life. I wouldn't train the experience of being his mom for anything, and he teaches all of us such important lessons every day. And, as irritated as I get at the kids who aren't so nice the vast majority of children and adults are truly wonderful, very friendly, and amazing.

One of the best stories came out of his last year of kindergarten. One boy was having a birthday party, and he began bragging that it would be the best party ever. All the kids were standing together and he said: "Everybody is invited, except for "Jasper" (that's my son) because it is for fun people and he's not fun, he's just stupid." The preschool teacher said after he said that, the most amazing thing happened. Another boy walked over to my son, put his arm around his shoulder and said: "Well, if you aren't going to invite "Jasper" then I don't want to come. He's my friend, and we'll have fun together."

That was years ago and I still get teary thinking about it. For five year old boys, birthday parties are pretty important and this kid was willing to give one up to do what was right. I took him some cookies I baked to him that night along with some flowers to his mom and dad--- they too had heard what had happened and when they opened the door and saw me, they too started crying. We're good friends now and they have two awesome kids!!!

 

[nuke]

Those last two stories brought tears to my eyes.

My question is how do you approach this subject to a child that has never been exposed to it? We also have the "special" people working at our grocery store (and they truly are special. Always smiling, always friendly and hard workers too!). My son also has a child in his pre-school class with a facial deformity. He has never asked me any questions about these people. He just treats them like he treats everyone else.
I suppose he already can look past the disabilities, but I wouldn't want him to say something inappropriate and hurt someone's feelings.

 

[jellymoon]

Maybe you could ask your child at home if he has any questions about things that happen at preschool. I know that this is the way we handled, in consultation with some concerned parents, one of the kids that was especially mean to my ds in preschool. His mom sat down with him and said something along the lines of: "It seems like you're having a hard time getting along with Jasper. Is there anything you would like to talk about?"

They had a great discussion, and it turned out he had all sorts of questions. She was able to answer most of them, and she suggested that he ask me some of the questions too (she asked me first before she did this). I was happy to answer his questions. Then, we planned a play date at our house and it was great--- the little boy got to see that he and my ds had many of the same interests, same toys, had sisters the same age, etc. It really worked out nicely.

I guess it is harder to do it if there isn't a problem. Isn't that funny? Maybe that means that your child doesn't have any questions and it hasn't phased him at all. In that case, maybe it is best to let it be. There are also some really great children's books that talk about individuals with special needs that have great photos. This can be a great way to address the issue without necessarily singling out the child in your son's class. That has been one of the challenges for us in sharing the information with ds's classmates. We kind of want to do a "preemptive strike" so to speak of getting the info out there. At the same time, we don't want to make a big deal out of something that wouldn't be an issue otherwise. In some cases we've used stories. I know other parents who have done puppet shows. In these cases, there is a character that is similar to the differently abled child and most kids about 4 or older can make the leap and apply what they've learned to their own situation. Sometimes the kids also feel more comfortable asking the questions about a fictional character rather than a particular kid. After the age of about 5, I think most kids really are pretty sensitive about not wanting to ask questions that are intrusive or will hurt someone's feelings.

Good luck!!! It is so good to hear about the child in your child's class. We are lucky in the community we live--- I think just about every community preschool has a couple of students with disabilities who are classroom members. This early opportunity to play really helps everyone. I know ds also needed that influence from typically developing kids as their expectations, rules and peer pressure really has encouraged a tremendous amount of his social development and spurred his changing interests.

There are so many nice people on this board. If all parents were like each of you, the world would be perfect, don't you think?

 

[Cindyluwho]

What a great thread, I've been following it for the last couple of days and everyone has had such wonderful input. I wanted to add that our elementary school has one of the country's finest Integrated Learning programs. It has helped my daughter and all of her friends see disabilities of all kinds, face to face. The children really enjoy the IL students and one of their favorite times of the day is when the IL's get to spend time in their classroom, studying with them. For some of the more severely disabled kids, this time may only amount to 5 minutes or less but it really helps the other kids and teaches them tolerance. In the 4 years since my daughter started Kindergarden I've never seen one IL child picked on or riduculed in any way. So, here's a big smile for our school, Shorewood Elementary!! Of course, we'll never live down that darn Mary K. Letourno incident, but we really do have a great school!

 

[Laurajean1014]

A good friend of mine has a son with physical deformaties. I mentioned this to my son before he met him for the first time. I told him that he was very special, because when God made him, he may have taken away some abilities, but gave him things that we don't have (like, patience, compasion, empathy). He has had 7 operations on his leg in the 12 years he's been alive. After age 18, he needs to start having operations on his arm and hand.

So, we needed to be sensitive to his needs.

He absolutely loves this boy. He told him that he was very smart and because he's had so many operations, that he'll probably be a doctor because of his compasion for other's needs.

So, don't be fooled. Kids are very smart and they are wonderful people, too.

 

[starwood]

We cruise August 2001 with DS (age 9) ADHD.

I believe there is a spot on the sign-in form that asks if there are any disabilities and if the child is on any medications. He didn't spend a lot of time in the clubs and I tried not to give him his meds when he wasn't in there because he seemed to be getting migraines.

 

[Susan in Maine]

I've been following this thread with interest. I have an 18YO son with ADD, Depression, and a seriously deformed ear. The ear isn't a big deal to adults but incredibly embarrasing to an adolescent.

I also have a little girl who is seriously developmentally delayed, and very small for her age. This is due to serious birth defects that were left untreated for the first two years of her life in Cambodia. Also, since she is Cambodian, and we live in central Maine (the whitest state in the union!) she stands out quite a bit.

So, I think I have some credibility on this topic.

I agree that it is totally unacceptable for any sort of abusive comments from one child to another. And unfortunately, the children learn that from their parents.

However, to expect small children to NOT be curious and ask questions like why do you use crutches or why do you talk funny is unreasonable and unfair. And by small I mean children under 6 or 7 - before they've had much chance to develop any sophistication in their language. A four year old is not being cruel when they want to know why someone is different - they are just trying to understand their world. The answers do not have to be complex or personal - a simple 'that's just the way I was made' may be sufficient.

However, much of the problem in our society with discrimination against people with disabilities is the lack of understanding. We tend to fear and ridicule that which we do not understand.

While it may not be your son's responsibility to explain his disabilities, there is no reason why the adults cannot step in and gently make an explanation.

Also, be careful to get all the facts. When my son was in middle school (the age when all children turn into some sort of uber-human beast), he came home very upset that he was being picked on because of his ear. Like every other mother, I was NOT happy, and went to his teachers to let them know that this was not acceptable to me. What I found out was that he was making equally nasty remarks to other kids! He found out that while I would defend him to the death against abuse, I would NOT help him if he was the instigator.

Later, when he was in high school, he was called the 'n' word in the football locker room (my son is from Colombia, and is hispanic and Chibchaz, an indiginous people from Colombia). That time I hit the roof and demanded the school rectify the situation.

So while I understand the lioness looking to protect your child, please understand that sometimes other children really are just curious.

 

[jellymoon]

Of course kids are curious. This is why I made the distinction between asking questions that are reasonable (why do you use that talker) and those that are rude (what's wrong with your face?). Children under 6 or 7 are much different than older kids who should know better any way. However, even under the age of 6 or 7 if the child doesn't want to talk about it, they shouldn't have to. Of course kids are curious and adults have a responsibility to introduce these issues to kids before it becomes a problem or issue for a real child. I've addressed some of those kinds of issues.

My son has never taunted or teased another child. He has never brought any of the cruelty on himself. This is not just a protective mom speaking--- it is a fact. This is according not just to my observations but the reports of teachers, principals, playground aides, etc. The fact that kids can't understand what he says due to his severe speech impediment makes it actually quite impossible that he would be ablet o call someone a name and they would know about it.

I agree. Children will be curious. But curiosity is not an excuse for cruelty. And, if parents were teaching their children about differences to start with AND if kids weren't segregated into self-contained classrooms and preschools and community activities, it would seem strange. It would just be part of the world. Like some people have short or long hair, some people are boys or girls. I do not apologize for protecting my son from cruel kids, nor for correcting curious children if they ask questions in a rude way. I have explained in depth on this thread some of the efforts we have made, even in the case of children who were cruel. Again, understanding that fear comes from confusion. However, when there is swift and severe punishment even for a four year old for ridiculing a disabled child or a child of color, etc. the message is clear. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. They need to get that message, in addition to further opportunities to learn information they need. When I say zero tolerance at a preschool, I don't mean the kid that taunts the kid in the wheelchair never gets to come back. It means that kid gets sent home for the day. He comes back the next day, and then starts getting the support he needs to better understand differences. However, the message needs to be clear that cruelty is unacceptable.