Kids & Electronics rant

[5lilfish]

I'm sorry but I find it a bit offensive that you assume that the kids with autism are the ones being rude with electronics. It's statements like this which make people think autism is a bogus excuse that people use for
misbehaving kids.

My son has an autistic spectrum disorder and I do not find it offensive to point out that an observer might want to consider a disability as a possibility (if they feel the need to make any sort of judgment at all). My son is only very mildly affected by his ASD (public school, no IEP/504, etc). Obviously, we're very thankful that his issues are minor (on the grand scheme of things) but in some ways that makes his disorder a hidden disability. Bringing a DS with him to dinner helps him and it's just not a big deal to us. He has to put it away when his food arrives and he has to look up and address the waiter and/or anyone else that speaks to him (sometimes we need to remind him to do this). His sisters hardly ever bring anything with them.

Ignorance is what makes people think that autism is a bogus excuse for misbehaving kids.

Jess

 

[Ohiodislover]

Those calculators are mandatory at daughters HS.

They are mandatory in my DD Middle school. Bought one in 8th for my oldest, but my younger one will have to have one halfway thru 6th.

 

[wdwfan16]

Like the details of the stock market? Or do you remember so and so from the old neighborhood, they had twins, blah, blah blah.

Things ADULTS find interesting, and kids can't follow/don't care/don't understand.

Edited to add: It's interesting how DIS members immediately rush to the risque.

The stock market is something that kids need to understand.

I see what you're saying, but that isn't what most people consider "adult conversation". That is just small talk and to be honest, my 12 year old nephew and 9 year old daughter are both interested in current events. And I don't think anyone immediately rushed to risque either. Adult conversation might include discussions on medical issues or the family's current financial woes. Those are the types of topics that many people would rather sanitize before they share with kids, if for no other reason than to keep them from becoming too stressed. Those are the types of things I thought of when I read "adult conversation".

And you know how you deal with boredom? You bring along something to do....like a book, coloring, or yes, a video game.

Certainly, I get what you all are saying. Most kids should be able to talk to adults, be part of the larger dinner celebration. And that's great, up to a point.

But you never know what's going on at the table next to you, and why those kids have there DS games or Leapsters out.

Of course, this was a vent/rant, so have at it.

lOne ends boredom by joining in with the others. One stays in a solitary world when they are on their DS.

 

[jodifla]

My son has an autistic spectrum disorder and I do not find it offensive to point out that an observer might want to consider a disability as a possibility (if they feel the need to make any sort of judgment at all). My son is only very mildly affected by his ASD (public school, no IEP/504, etc). Obviously, we're very thankful that his issues are minor (on the grand scheme of things) but in some ways that makes his disorder a hidden disability. Bringing a DS with him to dinner helps him and it's just not a big deal to us. He has to put it away when his food arrives and he has to look up and address the waiter and/or anyone else that speaks to him (sometimes we need to remind him to do this). His sisters hardly ever bring anything with them.

Ignorance is what makes people think that autism is a bogus excuse for misbehaving kids.

Jess

TIA! Thanks for making such an eloquent point.

My friend's family has several autistic members. They tend to bring books or video games on outings to occupy themselves. I also think it may be a bit of a shield to prevent people they don't know from talking to them too much, which makes them quite uncomfortable.

This isn't rude, it's a coping mechanism, and allows the family to get out and about comfortably. For these particular kids in this family, there's no putting down the book and having a typical dinner conversation. (I mean really, these parents have been working on this every day for their whole lives!)

 

[carmiedog]

We have been taught in my early childhood class that they are going to be phasing out cursive (script) writing in schools, because kids don't have the patience to learn it anymore. And the other justification for it is because technology (texting) is becoming so prevalent.

Interesting - haven't heard that. It took me aback at first, but then thinking about it, the ONLY time I use cursive is signing my name or writing the occasional check. Sometimes a grocery list, but even that is mostly print so my shopper (dh) can read it.

 

[okeydokey]

Because sometimes the adults want to converse among themselves on topics that aren't kid friendly.

And sometimes kids aren't ABLE to converse. Heard of autism?

I think the post was about electronic use in general, not among the disabled population.

We were raised to sit patiently at meals even if adults were *gasp* not talking about something that interested us personally. My kids are not allowed to play their DS at the dinner table at home, so why would we let them use them at restaurants?

Let's get back to teaching our kids social skills.

 

[mvazul]

Ignorance is what makes people think that autism is a bogus excuse for misbehaving kids.

Jess

I have an 11 year old cousin with Autism. It's mild to moderate - not sure what his exact diagnosis (Aspberger's, etc.) is. My aunt and uncle never allow him to take something to dinner with them. He is expected to be a part of the conversation. It's hard for him, but they feel it's the only way he will learn.

Interesting - haven't heard that. It took me aback at first, but then thinking about it, the ONLY time I use cursive is signing my name or writing the occasional check. Sometimes a grocery list, but even that is mostly print so my shopper (dh) can read it.

I was very shocked - and upset - when I heard this. I feel it just fits in with allowing kids to be lazy and doing as little as possible. (Part of why I am getting out of education - I'm too old fashioned!! ) I only use cursive writing. It's so much faster. I really don't like printing.

 

[wdwfan16]

I was very shocked - and upset - when I heard this. I feel it just fits in with allowing kids to be lazy and doing as little as possible. (Part of why I am getting out of education - I'm too old fashioned!! ) I only use cursive writing. It's so much faster. I really don't like printing.

I stopped using cursive in middle school. I can print really fast.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Because sometimes the adults want to converse among themselves on topics that aren't kid friendly.

And sometimes kids aren't ABLE to converse. Heard of autism?

I wanted to ask about this since I find it odd.
If a topic is not kid friendly then why would any adult discuss it in front of kids? They can still hear even if they are not participating.

I also don't think the OP was talking about children with disabilities. I tend to agree that while some children may have disabilities etc. I don't believe for a second that every kid set up with a video game or DVD player at a restaurant has one. More often than not I think the parents don't want to be interupted or bothered. IMO if that is the case then get a babysitter and leave the child home because that is just poor manners.

 

[2girlsmom]

I have to admit that I let my dd11 bring her DS sometimes, especially at restaurants with an extended wait between ordering and the arrival of the food and/or between arriving and being seated, etc, and if at a restaurant that won't have a kid's coloring/activity sheet, etc. She does have a adhd and can't sit for extended periods of inactivity, she also has a "worry activity" at school for this reason. In her case she DOES interact with us while playing the DS, actually communicates BETTER with adults when she has something to keep her hands busy. Before I had kids, I probably thought largely the same as you, and certainly my 9 year old, who does not have adhd, does not need to have the activities and generally ignores the activity sheets when they are available as she prefers to talk with us and whoever we are with to doing those, so if I didn't have a child who is incapable of handling it, I am sure I would feel the same as some of you. But honestly, with the game she answers questions, talks about what she is doing, how school is, etc and is PLEASANT to have in restaurants. Without it or some activity? She squirms around, lays her head down, half lays in the seat, plays with the silverware, tears up or unfolds and refolds over and over the napkins (depending on paper or cloth of course), taps on the table. Basically EVERYONE loses any option of enjoying the mealtime.

 

[MaumeeMom]

Wow, I went away for one day & this thread exploded!

I've added some comments in red.

I find that absolutely no different than a pp saying they find it perfectly allowable for their child to read at the table.

We have allowed our children, on occasion to use electronics, to read or to gasp, use the coloring placemats and crayons to keep them entertained during a long wait. All three are no different than the other.

THe "gasp" is pretty dramatic. I never said anything about coloring or drawing or playing tic tac toe (mentioned by another poster) as I find that those activities are generally interactive. I'll ask what the child is drawing, help the child draw, comment on the picture, etc. etc. This can't be done with a child playing on their DS. Usually, the child on the DS is in their own world and will not respond when approached. Therefore, I do think that there is a difference between electronics, reading and coloring.

As in all things, there is moderation. A DS while waiting (with volume muted or earphones) and then put away when food comes is absolutely no different than a child coloring and then putting the crayons away when the food comes or the child that is given a magazine to entertain themselves.

I don't allow my children to read at the table either as it is a singular activity. See above for my comments on coloring.

Moderation. Even the OP, who started this thread, said that occasionally checking texts while at the table has proved to be very beneficial, ie: when their friends texted them they would be late. She turns off her phone, but knows that her calls will be redirected to her husband's phone, whose phone is not turned off.

As for adults, there are numerous different professions where the adults are on call and no, the call cannot wait an hour. For instance, my guess is that if a loved one was having a heart attack, you wouldn't want the cardiologist to have his phone off, saying it can wait an hour. A system failure at VISA would create havoc across the country and people would not be very happy if the techies said "oh, I have to finish my dinner, it can wait an hour." So, yes, there are many, many people out there who need to be attached to their technology and it cannot wait an hour.

My husband checks texts/calls about every 15 minutes, even during dinner. If a call or text comes in, he will check quickly at the table and if something needs more attention, he will excuse himself and go take the call in the lobby or elsewhere.

Actually, the rant was about children who cannot interact not about responsible adults who should use electronics politely (excusing themselves to answer an important call/not talking at the table). My DH has a rather high profile and important job so his phone is on constantly and he does have to take calls often at inopportune times BUT he excuses himself to take the call/text/etc. and extends his apologies to fellow diners when he returns to the table. It is all about how it is done and if the person has manners. He would never take a call at the table and only responds to "important/work related" calls during our family time.

Actually I think it's a little different in that when a kid is coloring they are more likely to be engaged with the people around them. Asking what color to use, help with the crossword, playing tic tac do with someone else etc. Video games and reading are more solitary/isolated and do not engage the people around them. Not saying it's right or wrong just IMHO there is a difference.

Exactly, as I commented above, ITA.

Yes, it's rude but not much different than getting up from the table every 15 minutes or so to check the score of the game. Or when you go to a family gathering and everyone is glued to the TV. I think this same issue was probably discussed years ago - same problem, different medium.

Maybe, but at least someone checking the score to the game can have an element of interaction - "Player X just threw an interception. Remember GameXYZ when such and such..."

I would not have dared to try and bring my Walkman to the dinner table let alone out to dinner. I may have been a bratty, obnoxious teenager but I knew my limits.

A question I have for everyone in general is: Why do we feel our kids need to be entertained? Don't they have to learn patience too? And why can't they have a conversation with the adults at the table?

Yep, that is how I feel and my kids have learned to have conversations with all types/ages of people.

Because sometimes the adults want to converse among themselves on topics that aren't kid friendly.

And sometimes kids aren't ABLE to converse. Heard of autism?

First, if adults want to talk about something that kids "shouldn't" hear then they shouldn't talk about them in front of the kids. If you just mean things that kids might not be interested in - too bad, they might learn something. They should learn to listen politely and can interact with each other if there are other kids at the table. There can be more than one conversation going on at one time.

Yes, I've heard of autism and have a family member with autism who has trouble interacting and of course we alter how we do things when this child is with us. This was a general statement regarding children without medical issues. The children about whom I am complaining do not have health issues (and they are not just hidden so don't go there - some of them are my god children and I would know if they had health issues.)

Like the details of the stock market? Or do you remember so and so from the old neighborhood, they had twins, blah, blah blah.
Why can't children learn to listen to information about the stock market? I did. I also listened to stories about "great Uncle Sal" etc. etc. and it didn't hurt me to sit there and listen politely. I even learned something once and a while.

Things ADULTS find interesting, and kids can't follow/don't care/don't understand.

Edited to add: It's interesting how DIS members immediately rush to the risque.
Never did my mind rush to the risque, sorry to disappoint you.

Why do you keep assuming things about us. Like we don't know about Autism, even though another pp has a kid with autism and she makes her kids sit through dinner. It could be something desturbing on the news something goin on with a mutual friend that kids don't need to know about. and you know what To bad, Kids need to learn to deal with things that may not interest them. Thats life, they won't always be entertained and sometimes may be bored. It is one of the great lessons kids aren't being taught these days, how to deal with boredom.
Exactly! ITA

And you know how you deal with boredom? You bring along something to do....like a book, coloring, or yes, a video game.

Certainly, I get what you all are saying. Most kids should be able to talk to adults, be part of the larger dinner celebration. And that's great, up to a point.

But you never know what's going on at the table next to you, and why those kids have there DS games or Leapsters out.
My judgement was about the children with whom I was interacting. The kids about whom I have complained are not able to hold a conversation with an adult.


Of course, this was a vent/rant, so have at it.

Good or bad, this is going to be the norm. I just went to an informational technology class at my DS's school, and they are planning on using ITouches for group discussions now vs. actually speaking out loud and having a "voice" debate. Their reason is, kids nowadays use technology, and this is how they are going to engage them...sort of like the "if you can't beat them, join them" mentality. I can see it both ways.

They also told us if our kids had an ITouch, or if we would be willing to spend $200.00(?) to get them one, we should send them to school, so the school district doesn't have to purchase so many. (Yeah right!) I wonder how long it will be before an ITouch appears on our supply list! LOL!
There is no way that I would put up with that and I certainly would not be paying to buy an iTouch for my child. Yikes!

To those who rant about the electronics at the dinner table try this one on for size. Several times in the last 6 months while I have had to make use of a public restroom a late teens / early twenties guy would come into the restroom talking on his cell phone. The amazing thing is that he would continue the conversation while "using the facilities" and was still talking when he left !

Call me old-fashioned, but if I was on the other end of the conversation I would have hung up.
Eww! Yuck!

My son has an autistic spectrum disorder and I do not find it offensive to point out that an observer might want to consider a disability as a possibility (if they feel the need to make any sort of judgment at all). My son is only very mildly affected by his ASD (public school, no IEP/504, etc). Obviously, we're very thankful that his issues are minor (on the grand scheme of things) but in some ways that makes his disorder a hidden disability. Bringing a DS with him to dinner helps him and it's just not a big deal to us. He has to put it away when his food arrives and he has to look up and address the waiter and/or anyone else that speaks to him (sometimes we need to remind him to do this). His sisters hardly ever bring anything with them.

Ignorance is what makes people think that autism is a bogus excuse for misbehaving kids.

Not every child has a hidden disability. I am very close to the children whom I feel were being rude and I know that there is no hidden disability there. I have read up some on autism as I have a family member with an autistic child. Please do not assume that we are uncaring or that everyone commenting here is ignorant about autism.

Jess

Thanks to all who have politely discussed this pet peeve of mine. I'm glad to see that I am not the only parent to have these rules.
Thanks! -MM

 

[IDoDis]

Exactly. If our kids are with us and we are out to dinner with someone else (which is EXTREMELY rare), then we keep adult conversation for when the kids aren't with us. If we're home and someone is here, then we send the kids to play or put in a movie. I know there are topics that come up that bore my kids to tears, but that happened when I was a kid. It teaches them patience and respect.

As I said earlier in this thread, I have recently gone back to school (I'm a 37 year old freshman ). I can't believe how many "kids" can't hold a conversation without constantly checking their phone or texting as we chat. And the texting that goes on during class is just ridiculous. And these kids are there to become teachers!! (I have decided to change my major to graphic design - I'm sure it will probably be worse in that program. )

We have been taught in my early childhood class that they are going to be phasing out cursive (script) writing in schools, because kids don't have the patience to learn it anymore. And the other justification for it is because technology (texting) is becoming so prevalent. We had to do Power Point presentations in almost all of my classes. I couldn't believe the horrible spelling in almost all of them. They spelled things as if they were texting someone. Professors took points off for it and the kids didn't understand why. I got a 100% on each one of my presentations and was told how nice it was to have someone in class who pays attention and knows how to spell - or at least take the time to use spell checker!!

Who knows - maybe I'm just getting old and am clueless!!

Michelle

That is absolutely NOT the reason cursive is being phased out. It's because there are so many other more important things that need to be taught and fit into the school day. The school systems have to pick and choose what is more important. When I was a kid, we didn't have a computer class, so the teacher had time to teach cursive. I'd rather have my kids learn to be good writers (not handwriting, but actually writing essays, stories, etc.) instead of the teacher spending an ungodly amount of time on cursive. Send the sheets home for practice, but don't waste valuable instructional time with something that won't be used much later on.

 

[FireDancer]

Using autism to explain why kids use electronics is trying to use the exception to explain the rule. The vast majority of people do not have a disability that necessitates the use of an electronic item at a dinner table. The same goes for people who have to be on call like doctors or the person in charge of the Visa database (there is not one person in charge of such data, but that is besides the point) they are the exception and not the rule. It would be like saying it is not rude to yell across a crowded restaurant because some people have tourettes and can't help it. True, but that is rare and not the norm.

On the rare exceptions described by some on this thread using a DS or phone at the table may not be rude. The vast majority of the time I stand by my method. The phone is off and if I have to take a call I excuse myself.

 

[MaumeeMom]

More replies cam in while I was typing. This is an active thread!

I wanted to ask about this since I find it odd.
If a topic is not kid friendly then why would any adult discuss it in front of kids? They can still hear even if they are not participating.

I also don't think the OP was talking about children with disabilities. I tend to agree that while some children may have disabilities etc. I don't believe for a second that every kid set up with a video game or DVD player at a restaurant has one. More often than not I think the parents don't want to be interupted or bothered. IMO if that is the case then get a babysitter and leave the child home because that is just poor manners.

Thank you for acknowledging that I was not addressing children with disabilities in my original post; of course exceptions can be made for children with mental or physical health issues.

I agree, I think that some parents do use the electronics as the easy way out of making conversation with their children.

I have to admit that I let my dd11 bring her DS sometimes, especially at restaurants with an extended wait between ordering and the arrival of the food and/or between arriving and being seated, etc, and if at a restaurant that won't have a kid's coloring/activity sheet, etc. She does have a adhd and can't sit for extended periods of inactivity, she also has a "worry activity" at school for this reason. In her case she DOES interact with us while playing the DS, actually communicates BETTER with adults when she has something to keep her hands busy. Before I had kids, I probably thought largely the same as you, and certainly my 9 year old, who does not have adhd, does not need to have the activities and generally ignores the activity sheets when they are available as she prefers to talk with us and whoever we are with to doing those, so if I didn't have a child who is incapable of handling it, I am sure I would feel the same as some of you. But honestly, with the game she answers questions, talks about what she is doing, how school is, etc and is PLEASANT to have in restaurants. Without it or some activity? She squirms around, lays her head down, half lays in the seat, plays with the silverware, tears up or unfolds and refolds over and over the napkins (depending on paper or cloth of course), taps on the table. Basically EVERYONE loses any option of enjoying the mealtime.

I do agree that electronics have there place as coping tools for some and I don't have a problem with that. I'm sorry that you have had to face challenges with your child.

 

[5lilfish]

Wow, I went away for one day & this thread exploded!

I've added some comments in red.





Exactly, as I commented above, ITA.


Maybe, but at least someone checking the score to the game can have an element of interaction - "Player X just threw an interception. Remember GameXYZ when such and such..."



Yep, that is how I feel and my kids have learned to have conversations with all types/ages of people.



First, if adults want to talk about something that kids "shouldn't" hear then they shouldn't talk about them in front of the kids. If you just mean things that kids might not be interested in - too bad, they might learn something. They should learn to listen politely and can interact with each other if there are other kids at the table. There can be more than one conversation going on at one time.

Yes, I've heard of autism and have a family member with autism who has trouble interacting and of course we alter how we do things when this child is with us. This was a general statement regarding children without medical issues. The children about whom I am complaining do not have health issues (and they are not just hidden so don't go there - some of them are my god children and I would know if they had health issues.)













Thanks to all who have politely discussed this pet peeve of mine. I'm glad to see that I am not the only parent to have these rules.
Thanks! -MM

My comment about ignorance and autism was not directed toward you (or anyone in this thread). It was directed toward the line stating that people allowing an autistic child to use electronics were the reason autism gets it's bad name as a made-up disorder excusing bad behavior. That is not the reason. Allowing my son to play his DS when we go out is not the reason people say that autism does not exist and it's simply an excuse parents use when their kids cannot behave. The reason people say things like that is that some people are totally uneducated (ignorant) when it comes to autistic spectrum disorders and yet have no problem spouting off hurtful opinions about it...again, I am not talking about you or anyone else I have seen in this thread.

Jess

 

[5lilfish]

I have an 11 year old cousin with Autism. It's mild to moderate - not sure what his exact diagnosis (Aspberger's, etc.) is. My aunt and uncle never allow him to take something to dinner with them. He is expected to be a part of the conversation. It's hard for him, but they feel it's the only way he will learn.

.

We teach our son each and every day...all the time. We also deserve, as a whole family, to go out and enjoy ourselves. If a DS allows my son to feel more comfortable when we go out, then I can give up that 90 minutes for teaching (although he still has rules ...must look up to order and answer any questions and has to put the DS away when his food comes).

Keep in mind that my son is VERY mild. He goes to public school and does not even have his ASD on his record there. If you met him, you would probably just think he was a bit different. So, if it's hard on him, then it is got to be much harder for someone further along the spectrum.

Jess

 

[mvazul]

We teach our son each and every day...all the time. We also deserve, as a whole family, to go out and enjoy ourselves. If a DS allows my son to feel more comfortable when we go out, then I can give up that 90 minutes for teaching (although he still has rules ...must look up to order and answer any questions and has to put the DS away when his food comes).

Keep in mind that my son is VERY mild. He goes to public school and does not even have his ASD on his record there. If you met him, you would probably just think he was a bit different. So, if it's hard on him, then it is got to be much harder for someone further along the spectrum.

Jess

Please don't misunderstand. I was agreeing with you. I don't have any children with Autism. My son is on the opposite end of the spectrum and is "gifted" (man, I hate that term!!). Trust me, I know it's not the same thing, but he comes with his own set of challenges. My aunt (the one who has the son with Autism) and I talk all the time how my son and her son have some of the same challenges and how we as parents have the same challenges with the schools - just on very different levels.

I think each parent needs to do what is right for THEIR child. If there is a child with Autism, or Down Syndrome, or whatever, that needs to use a DS at dinner time, then so be it. Again, the original poster was talking about children, whom she knows personally, that have no challenges. Those children NEED to learn manners, respect and patience. Allowing them to sit in their own little world at dinner time will not help them in the long run, in my opinion.

Michelle

 

[dismom2]

Using autism to explain why kids use electronics is trying to use the exception to explain the rule. The vast majority of people do not have a disability that necessitates the use of an electronic item at a dinner table. The same goes for people who have to be on call like doctors or the person in charge of the Visa database (there is not one person in charge of such data, but that is besides the point) they are the exception and not the rule. It would be like saying it is not rude to yell across a crowded restaurant because some people have tourettes and can't help it. True, but that is rare and not the norm.

On the rare exceptions described by some on this thread using a DS or phone at the table may not be rude. The vast majority of the time I stand by my method. The phone is off and if I have to take a call I excuse myself.

Firedancer is correct... kids with autism are the exception.

But, on that note, I'm wondering how all these kids are suppose to/ever going to learn how to sit properly at a table if not given the chance? Allowing a DS/DSI seems like taking the easy way out of teaching a child how to behave....even if it is hard due to some sort of behavior diagnosis. I don't see how the kid will ever learn Not to offend anyone, but doesn't practice help change behavior? Not giving in? Reward/consequences? My parent's never gave in. Ever. And believe me, I have at least one sibling who is not the best mannered person around, but he knew how to sit at table, whether he was bored to death, unsocial, or restless. He had to learn the hard way to deal with it during dinner (and other occassions). I just don't see any chance of a child learning if not given the chance.

 

[5lilfish]

Please don't misunderstand. I was agreeing with you. I don't have any children with Autism. My son is on the opposite end of the spectrum and is "gifted" (man, I hate that term!!). Trust me, I know it's not the same thing, but he comes with his own set of challenges. My aunt (the one who has the son with Autism) and I talk all the time how my son and her son have some of the same challenges and how we as parents have the same challenges with the schools - just on very different levels.


Michelle

My son is on the spectrum AND gifted (and I am not fond of the term either). I agree with you..."gifted" children come with their own set of special needs too. My son's abilities are directly tied to, and wrapped up in, his ASD diagnosis. In some ways being very smart helps him (learn coping skills and learn social situations in a rote way). In other ways it makes things harder. He is so aware of his difficulties. As I've said a few times, we are lucky that his issues are sooo mild. Aside from the occasional meltdown and/or social bumps, my son is basically "normal" and happy.

Jess

 

[5lilfish]

Firedancer is correct... kids with autism are the exception.

But, on that note, I'm wondering how all these kids are suppose to/ever going to learn how to sit properly at a table if not given the chance? Allowing a DS/DSI seems like taking the easy way out of teaching a child how to behave....even if it is hard due to some sort of behavior diagnosis. I don't see how the kid will ever learn Not to offend anyone, but doesn't practice help change behavior? Not giving in? Reward/consequences? My parent's never gave in. Ever. And believe me, I have at least one sibling who is not the best mannered person around, but he knew how to sit at table, whether he was bored to death, unsocial, or restless. He had to learn the hard way to deal with it during dinner (and other occassions). I just don't see any chance of a child learning if not given the chance.

My son does learn those skills (sitting properly at a table)...every day at home. As far as rewards/consequences...yes, that works great for our NT ("nuerologically typical" or "normal") kids (we have 5 kids). We also do teach a bit when out to eat. As I said, he is expected to stop playing his game and look up at the waiter when he orders. He is expected to stop playing if someone is speaking to him and he is expected to stop playing once his meal arrives. As for the rest of the time...try going into a place that makes you a uncomfortable: put on some strob lighting, blast a stereo, have people all over, a TV on, fill the room with overwhelming smells, etc and try to sit and carry on a polite conversation. That might give you some idea of the sensory overload an ASD kid feels. Right now the DS helps him cope. As for looking down the road, he will always have a spectrum disorder. As he gets older, he will learn new/better coping skills (he already has).

Jess