Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis found in contempt, going to jail

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

 

[robinb]

I would guess that most religions have tenants on divorce just as they do on marriage but not all Christians believe the same things. Simply quoting the Bible as the pp did doesn't really cover it. Its not like each religious denomination has a written set of rules except for the Bible. And that can be interpreted many ways.

Yes I know that its an example. An example to give reason to continue bashing this woman. And to continue to use her as an excuse to bash all Christians. All Christians don't have issues with gay marriage and many of those that do aren't that vocal about it.

Ah, now we have finally made it to the crux of your problem with people questioning her religious defense.

 

[brookmey]

I've read every single post in this thread, as well as hundreds of comments on this issue on other news websites. The thing that upsets me the most is that Kim Davis and her supporters (including politicians) just don't seem to get that civil rights have nothing to do with beliefs. Civil rights should not be decided by individual state governments or by residents of a state voting for or against. It's similar to when women were lobbying for the right to vote and when MLK and his supporters were protesting segregation. The federal government in both cases had to step up and recognize that changes needed to be made to promote equality because these groups (women and blacks) were being discriminated against, they were being treated as "less than."

The other thing that baffles me is the idea that 1 religion (Davis and her supporters' version of Chrisianity) should be the one to dictate the laws of our nation. As someone mentioned upthread, our country was founded by people escaping religious persecution and oppression. And now here we are, centuries later, finding ourselves under the threat of religious oppression again, this time by some conservative Christians and their politically powerful supporters. And these people go so far as to say "war has been declared on Christianity," when they are the ones essentially "declaring war" because they are trying to suppress the rights of others.

 

[gwynne]

I am surprised she (and her groupies) have no problem with theft and laziness. She happily takes the money, but can't be bothered to actually do the job she ran for.
Many would find that kind of behavior unconscionable.

 

[Christine]

I've read every single post in this thread, as well as hundreds of comments on this issue on other news websites. The thing that upsets me the most is that Kim Davis and her supporters (including politicians) just don't seem to get that civil rights have nothing to do with beliefs. Civil rights should not be decided by individual state governments or by residents of a state voting for or against. It's similar to when women were lobbying for the right to vote and when MLK and his supporters were protesting segregation. The federal government in both cases had to step up and recognize that changes needed to be made to promote equality because these groups (women and blacks) were being discriminated against, they were being treated as "less than."

The other thing that baffles me is the idea that 1 religion (Davis and her supporters' version of Chrisianity) should be the one to dictate the laws of our nation. As someone mentioned upthread, our country was founded by people escaping religious persecution and oppression. And now here we are, centuries later, finding ourselves under the threat of religious oppression again, this time by some conservative Christians and their politically powerful supporters. And these people go so far as to say "war has been declared on Christianity," when they are the ones essentially "declaring war" because they are trying to suppress the rights of others.

I agree with 100% of what you said. I think you need to put yourself in the mindset of people like Kim Davis. Not only does this country allow for freedom from religious persecution, it also allows each individual the freedom to live by and practice whatever religion they choose. They have confused this religious freedom and the practice of it with violating civil rights, though. I understand fully that THEY believe that if they are in any part complicit in a same-sex marriage, they they have advocated it or helped to "commit the sin" so to speak and by forcing them to take part in what goes against their religion is a persecution of them and their religious rights.

However, we all know that when it comes to discrimination and denying anyone the same right as others based on their skin color, sexual orientation, etc., your religious beliefs get checked at the door if you are a government official or public business. You cannot discriminated. PERIOD. For ANY reason. If your religion or your beliefs interfere with being non-discriminatory, you need to remove yourself from those activities.

I am equally ashamed over the politicians, who should know better about the laws of our country, who are supporting her. It's a travesty against the Constitution.

 

[mnrose]

I agree with 100% of what you said. I think you need to put yourself in the mindset of people like Kim Davis. Not only does this country allow for freedom from religious persecution, it also allows each individual the freedom to live by and practice whatever religion they choose. They have confused this religious freedom and the practice of it with violating civil rights, though. I understand fully that THEY believe that if they are in any part complicit in a same-sex marriage, they they have advocated it or helped to "commit the sin" so to speak and by forcing them to take part in what goes against their religion is a persecution of them and their religious rights.

However, we all know that when it comes to discrimination and denying anyone the same right as others based on their skin color, sexual orientation, etc., your religious beliefs get checked at the door if you are a government official or public business. You cannot discriminated. PERIOD. For ANY reason. If your religion or your beliefs interfere with being non-discriminatory, you need to remove yourself from those activities.

I am equally ashamed over the politicians, who should know better about the laws of our country, who are supporting her. It's a travesty against the Constitution.

They know exactly what they are doing. Pandering to their base. I applaud the few on that side who have stood up firmly and said "she's WRONG." Those are the ones that should get the attention (and the votes). It takes guts to do the right thing, instead of the popular thing.

 

[Art 1]

Really it's a simple thing, she is not doing her job as the law requires and should be let go. She will then bring suit, they can fight it, or just pay her off and drop the case.

 

[JimmyV]

Really it's a simple thing, she is not doing her job as the law requires and should be let go.

Problem is, she is not an "at will" employee who can be let go. The County (and State) are as much at fault here for not setting up a system that can be more quickly repaired. And no one in the state government wants to act on this for fear of electoral reprisal. If she had gotten into a car accident and was in a coma, I am guessing that some political maneuvering would have been done to see to it that someone other than she could issue licenses. And fast. But the lack of remedial measures by the County and State cannot be overlooked here. The prejudice does not begin and end with Kim Davis.

 

[sam_gordon]

Problem is, she is not an "at will" employee who can be let go. The County (and State) are as much at fault here for not setting up a system that can be more quickly repaired. And no one in the state government wants to act on this for fear of electoral reprisal. If she had gotten into a car accident and was in a coma, I am guessing that some political maneuvering would have been done to see to it that someone other than she could issue licenses. And fast. But the lack of remedial measures by the County and State cannot be overlooked here. The prejudice does not begin and end with Kim Davis.

The only thing that could be done is for the governor to call a special session. Speaking as a Kentucky Resident, I'd rather my tax dollars NOT go to a special session to "fix" this problem.

Oh, wait, is this is another of those "irrelevant" items we're not supposed to mention?

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

The only thing that could be done is for the governor to call a special session. Speaking as a Kentucky Resident, I'd rather my tax dollars NOT go to a special session to "fix" this problem.

Oh, wait, is this is another of those "irrelevant" items we're not supposed to mention?

As a Kentucky resident, how would you like to see this resolved?

 

[POOHsie]

They know exactly what they are doing. Pandering to their base. I applaud the few on that side who have stood up firmly and said "she's WRONG." Those are the ones that should get the attention (and the votes). It takes guts to do the right thing, instead of the popular thing.

I don't agree that National Presidential Candidates who stand by Kim Davis and her legal issue are doing the popular thing. If a candidate is National, the popular thing to do is what the majority of US voters want done, which is for Miss Davis to put aside her religious beliefs when doing her secular government job. She, in no way, holds the popular US national view about the merits of her case.

 

[JimmyV]

As a Kentucky resident, how would you like to see this resolved?

Yes. That is the question. I find it odd that a state legislature can sit dormant from now all the way until January. But either way, if her obstinance had resulted in some other sub-group of people not getting licenses, (such as, if she were a Muslim and she refused to service Christians), I bet the good people of KY would have not problem spending their tax dollars "fixing" that problem.

If the state is not willing to spend tax dollars on a special session, (and let's be honest...how much money are we talking about to take a single vote?), then the state has to live with the fact that the woman got incarcerated. Those are the only two options, because doing nothing is not an option. People with a legal right to receive licenses cannot be forced to wait until January to receive them. And frankly, I have little confidence that in January, the legislature is going to take any action that would erase the problem in any event.

 

[EMom]

Like her son

If her son will follow the law and issue licenses, fine and good. If he paints himself as a martyr and wants to draw a healthy paycheck while ignoring the law, he can join Mommy in jail. Next.

 

[luvsJack]

Ah, now we have finally made it to the crux of your problem with people questioning her religious defense.

So now there is a problem if I don't like Christian bashing?

Don't lump all Christians together.

 

[sam_gordon]

As a Kentucky resident, how would you like to see this resolved?

How would I *LIKE* to see it resolved? I've said from the beginning, Davis should resign. Obviously that's not going to happen.

Yes. That is the question. I find it odd that a state legislature can sit dormant from now all the way until January. But either way, if her obstinance had resulted in some other sub-group of people not getting licenses, (such as, if she were a Muslim and she refused to service Christians), I bet the good people of KY would have not problem spending their tax dollars "fixing" that problem.

If the state is not willing to spend tax dollars on a special session, (and let's be honest...how much money are we talking about to take a single vote?), then the state has to live with the fact that the woman got incarcerated. Those are the only two options, because doing nothing is not an option. People with a legal right to receive licenses cannot be forced to wait until January to receive them. And frankly, I have little confidence that in January, the legislature is going to take any action that would erase the problem in any event.

A quick google search shows a special session costs ~$65K per day. And if you really think this would be settled in a day on a single vote, I have bridge to sell you.

What I think should happen is Davis stays incarcerated until she either resigns or is willing to follow the law. Her deputies can continue to sign marriage licenses. BUT, I don't think time served in prison should count toward her pension vesting nor should she receive a salary while in jail. Since she was just elected in November 2014, the next County Clerk's election is in 2018. I feel that's a long time to stay in jail, and I don't know if 24 years of service (toward her pension) should be wiped out by this choice. I don't know if it's an option, but let her resign and keep whatever pension she would have received if she would have retired at the end of 2014. I don't know if that's legal though.

 

[POOHsie]

If her son will follow the law and issue licenses, fine and good. If he paints himself as a martyr and wants to draw a healthy paycheck while ignoring the law, he can join Mommy in jail. Next.

I don't think her son was elected. Just an staff employee. As such, the County should be able to let him go, like any County employee. He probably doesn't have the nice pay that an elected County Clerk would earn, either.

 

[robinb]

So now there is a problem if I don't like Christian bashing?

Don't lump all Christians together.

There is a problem that you *see* things as "Christian bashing" when they are not. The people who make this a "war on Christians" or "Christian bashing" are missing the point.

 

[robinb]

I wanted to add ... It's not about Christianity at all. It's about any government official following the rules of any religion over the law.

 

[JimmyV]

A quick google search shows a special session costs ~$65K per day. And if you really think this would be settled in a day on a single vote, I have bridge to sell you.

Well, if the elected representatives are doing their jobs, and fulfilling their oaths to uphold the law, then it should take one vote, and the vote should be unanimous. Of course, I don't doubt for a second your assessment that this would never happen. But doesn't that speak to the bigger problem? A single vote is all it should take, and as you point out, that would cost $65k. The state has probably already incurred more than that in extra security forces to oversee the protests, for the court hearings, and for her incarceration.

I don't know if it's an option, but let her resign

They already gave her that option, over and over again and it doesn't seem likely that it will end this way.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes I know that its an example. An example to give reason to continue bashing this woman. And to continue to use her as an excuse to bash all Christians. All Christians don't have issues with gay marriage and many of those that do aren't that vocal about it.

I don't disagree that she brought her faith into this. But one's faith is a very personal thing and that should be between her and God.

Wow... Once again you are showing that you just do not get it.

I am not bashing this woman because she is a SO-CALLED christian.
I am, and will, and am totally justified in bashing this woman because she is using public office as a pulpit for her beliefs, and is in violation of the law, and has purposefully and willfully violated other's civil rights.. even to the point of required others in her office to do 'as she believes'.

And, the whole 'between her and god' comment.
Are you even serious.
Really?
That ceased to be the case when SHE started spouting her beliefs from her public office and taking every opportunity to get plastered and displayed in the public media.

In fact, the whole 'between her and god' comment almost makes me want to laugh!

I am sorry that you can't parse out the religious aspect here.
Because, as many here have stated, it isn't her personal beliefs that are on trial here, at all.

She is not in a jail cell because she is a so called christian.
She is in a jail cell because of her insistence on using public office, in this country where we should be guaranteed separation of church and state, to force her religious beliefs on others, from her government office. As well as her purposeful and willful violation of other's civil rights.

Whether her beliefs are christian, jew, muslim, athiest, Buddhist, Mooney, or pink and purple polka dotted, has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

I am sorry that you are so defensive about christian beliefs.
I really am.
But, as a person who is closer to conservative christian than not... That is my reason for speaking against her.
Her and others like her are like a cancer on true christianity and give the religion a bad name.

She is giving any 'christian bashers' TONS and TONS of fodder.

If you are a christian, then perhaps that should be your concern.