Ken Burn's The Roosevelts

[JanaDee]

For someone "ruined", I think he did pretty well.

After all, he ONLY got the US out of the worst depression in history, and through the majority of WWII.

Maybe he wasn't the best husband or father, but no one is perfect.

WWII got out us out of the Depression, not FDR.

 

[Geoff_M]

For someone "ruined", I think he did pretty well.

After all, he ONLY got the US out of the worst depression in history, and through the majority of WWII.

Maybe he wasn't the best husband or father, but no one is perfect.

However, I think as the Burns series points out, the public facade and the private FDR were were disconnected. He certainly was "successful" by most measures, but I think it's far from certain that he was a "happy" person internally and from what we know he was a pretty sub-par husband and father.

As for the depression, even the series this week expressed the notion that while he won the gratitude of the population for his efforts to end the depression,in reality most of his administration's efforts were only modestly successful at best in bringing the country back economically. For example, Burns noted that the NRA was a "failure" and had the opposite desired effect of decreasing wages and raising retail prices. There was also mention of the "Roosevelt Recession" and the inflation problems that followed it.

 

[Geoff_M]

I think it is a gross overstatement. Entrance into the war, which he claimed to be opposed to, was a far more prominent factor.

I think the series makes the case pretty well that, like his cousin, FDR was pretty "hawkish" when it came to WWI and FDR was the same with regard to what would become WWII. It appears that it was the Congress and public opinion that kept FDR "officially" neutral towards the events in Europe.

 

[trip]

We hadn't realized it was an epidose each night this week. Watched the first, missed the next two before we realized it. Luckily I was able to tape the 3rd episode in a later broadcast and I'm taping all the next ones. Unfortunately, I haven't found a replay of episode 2 to watch. Though, if it comes to it we can watch on computer.

You can watch it online

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365313130/

Sorry, I should have read your whole post. I see you know you can watch online.

 

[asta]

However, I think as the Burns series points out, the public facade and the private FDR were were disconnected. He certainly was "successful" by most measures, but I think it's far from certain that he was a "happy" person internally and from what we know he was a pretty sub-par husband and father.

As for the depression, even the series this week expressed the notion that while he won the gratitude of the population for his efforts to end the depression,in reality most of his administration's efforts were only modestly successful at best in bringing the country back economically. For example, Burns noted that the NRA was a "failure" and had the opposite desired effect of decreasing wages and raising retail prices. There was also mention of the "Roosevelt Recession" and the inflation problems that followed it.

I think your opinion depends on the circumstances under which people were living. I am from a region of Tennessee that was routinely ravaged by flooding from the many rivers that made up the the Tennessee Valley. My mothers family was flooded out of four different homes while she was young. We consider the TVA one of FDR's greatest successes. Not only did the TVA control flooding, it brought electricity to an impoverished area. That electricity and the harnessing of the rivers also played a very large part in the success Manhatten project, Oak Ridge and the development of the atomic bomb that ended WWII.

FDR was revered by the generation of people who personally witnessed and whose lives were changed by his policies. I have more than one relative who is named after him.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

WWII got out us out of the Depression, not FDR.

Yup, all depends on your POV. Many believe FDR got us out of the Depression. Others firmly believe his policies not only failed to get us out of the Depression, they actually prolonged it by several years.

And either theory can be "proven" by experts on both sides.

 

[Geoff_M]

I think your opinion depends on the circumstances under which people were living. I am from a region of Tennessee that was routinely ravaged by flooding from the many rivers that made up the the Tennessee Valley. My mothers family was flooded out of four different homes while she was young. We consider the TVA one of FDR's greatest successes. Not only did the TVA control flooding, it brought electricity to an impoverished area. That electricity and the harnessing of the rivers also played a very large part in the success Manhatten project, Oak Ridge and the development of the atomic bomb that ended WWII.

FDR was revered by the generation of people who personally witnessed and whose lives were changed by his policies. I have more than one relative who is named after him.

I'm not saying that all of FDR-era programs were "failures". Many of them left lasting benefits that still enjoy today. Not only the TVA, but the WPA, Rural Electrification, and the CCC were prime examples. But the question I was referring to was that the totality of the FDR Administration's effort to end the Depression. IIRC, the episode last night, in judging the effects of the FDR efforts, said that while they were credited for creating 2 million jobs, during that same time another 10 million people lost work. I also think that FDR's legacy likely benefited from his death at a very high opinion point in his life. In essence, people's opinions of him were frozen in time. Contrast him with Winston Churchill, also equally revered during WWII... but was then swept from office a short time after the end of the conflict.

 

[Imzadi]

I was flipping channels and saw in the Channel Guide that there was a series on The Roosevelts. I wasn't aware that it is a Ken Burn's documentary. Thank you, OP. I will tune in to watch it as I usually really like the documentaries by the Burns brothers. Ric Burns did a wonderful one on New York, that was made before 9/11 and had to have one final episode about 9/11 added that was so sensitively done, it made me cry.

I loved Ken Burn's National Parks series and want to visit Yellowstone because of it. If he has a more positive view of Teddy in the Roosevelt series, it could be because of all the research he did on him for the National Parks series.

 

[jodifla]

I'm not saying that all of FDR-era programs were "failures". Many of them left lasting benefits that still enjoy today. Not only the TVA, but the WPA, Rural Electrification, and the CCC were prime examples. But the question I was referring to was that the totality of the FDR Administration's effort to end the Depression. IIRC, the episode last night, in judging the effects of the FDR efforts, said that while they were credited for creating 2 million jobs, during that same time another 10 million people lost work. I also think that FDR's legacy likely benefited from his death at a very high opinion point in his life. In essence, people's opinions of him were frozen in time. Contrast him with Winston Churchill, also equally revered during WWII... but was then swept from office a short time after the end of the conflict.

It did look like his banking holiday was pretty much genius, however, and made a huge difference in getting folks to return money to the banks.

He got through so many policies that we take for granted today -- like having our bank deposits insured. And of course, Social Security totally changed the lives of so many older and disabled Americans.

It's pretty telling that so many people had pictures of him on their walls!

 

[Deb in IA]

WWII got out us out of the Depression, not FDR.

WWII accelerated the recovery, I'll grant you that, but it was well on its way before Pearl Harbor. Economists agree that the recovery began in 1933 (this has also been emphasized in the series), and that most of FDR's New Deal policies, while not aggressive enough to bring the economy completely out of recession, nevertheless greatly helped the recovery.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

If he has a more positive view of Teddy in the Roosevelt series, it could be because of all the research he did on him for the National Parks series.

I think he had a balanced view...he meantioned the parks of course, but really focused on the other parts of TR that hadn't been covered with that one...and didn't shy away from mistakes such as the Brownsville incident.

As for FDR and the Depression...it is a debate if the policies or the war ended the depression, BUT, there really can be no debate (except by the weirdos that want to take us back to the gold standard) that the policies and regulations put in place have helped end the cycle of panics and depressions that happened every 10-30 years prior to his term...we still have peaks and valleys in the economy, but while the boom times still are booming, the busts are nothing like they once were...even in 2008 things would have been worse if not for the regulations.

His leadership really gave rise to the middle class as we know it today...even Ronald Reagan looked up to him...partisan goggles shouldn't prevent people from seeing the great leader he was...certainly one of the top of the 20th Century...but with people like Coolidge, Hoover, Carter, Nixon and Taft in there...not hard to look great.

 

[Geoff_M]

It did look like his banking holiday was pretty much genius, however, and made a huge difference in getting folks to return money to the banks.

He got through so many policies that we take for granted today -- like having our bank deposits insured. And of course, Social Security totally changed the lives of so many older and disabled Americans.

It's pretty telling that so many people had pictures of him on their walls!

I understand all of that fully well. Without a doubt many of FDR's legislative efforts still impact us today. And he did have a special connection to the population that felt that FDR personally cared for them. As was pointed out in the Burns series FDR received 5,000 letters per day and required a large staff to handle while Hoover only required one staffer to handle his mail volume. But what I'm getting at was also repeated in the documentary. FDR efforts certainly blunted the Depression and started the path back to recovery, but there were appears to be a bit of a disconnect regarding people's perceptions of the magnitude of that impact versus the reality. Even Deb's chart showed that while economic progress was made prior to the start of US re-armament, it was events after that that finally pulled us out from being underwater.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

there were appears to be a bit of a disconnect regarding people's perceptions of the magnitude of that impact versus the reality.

But since consumer confidence is such an important part of our economy, selling the perception that things were getting better was one way of help make it so...all good leaders have good PR teams...and often times hindsight aids in the image.

What I don't like is the recent trend of holding past leaders to today's standards...yes, TR made some comments that by today's standard would be racist...but were commonly held attitudes back then...to tear him down for it would be like calling Ben Franklin an idiot because he wouldn't know how to work a tv remote.

And as for their personal lives...well, if FDR had a mistress, and we don't respect him anymore for it, then we need to rethink Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and many other great leaders as well, which would be a shame...judge his leadership by his leadership, not his personal failings.

But I get it...the show made the comment early on that it is like a Shakespeare series, and there has to be some personal flaw that affects the central figure in order to highten the drama.

 

[NotUrsula]

- I thought FDR's polio was largely kept a secret from the public. I didn't realize it was in fact quite public before his run for the presidency.

The fact that he had had polio, and been deeply disabled by it was made public, but the fact that he was actually still a paraplegic was NOT, except in a very small circle. He moved heaven and earth to avoid being seen publicly in his wheelchairs. He made it a point to give the public impression that he could walk; that his disability had been overcome except for a severe limp. That explained why someone was always at his shoulder holding his arm -- supposedly for balance, but in actuality, bearing most of his weight. His son and his Secret Service guards essentially carried him like a stiff board when he was seen "walking" in public. He could stand independently for brief periods, but someone essentially had to put him there and then step away -- most members of the public never realized that.

FDR had to develop absolutely incredible upper body strength to pull off that charade; it was as if he were a gymnast doing the rings. That's why he tended to look kind of bulky in photos; not only did the braces add bulk (they went all the way up to his waist) but his shoulders were quite bulked up from exercise. These are the braces: http://amhistory.si.edu/polio/howpolio/enlargerehab_09.htm

It was a different era in terms of press coverage: the press respected the Office, so if the Office asked that certain photos not be taken or certain facts about a President's personal life not published, then they were not published. That persisted until Watergate, but then the gloves came off.

 

[Forum Jumper]

We watched the series and enjoyed it in that we didn't remember alot of those facts from school days. Our son was home and he watched it with us. Which means it was interesting from a young persons' POV. He hates tv and we were surprised he watched all parts.

Although it explains a big part of our history of laws and government, those people were so sad and, as with other people in our history, it is amazing they got done what they did in their lifetimes.

 

[Geoff_M]

It was a different era in terms of press coverage: the press respected the Office, so if the Office asked that certain photos not be taken or certain facts about a President's personal life not published, then they were not published.

Per the Burns series, it was due to a bit more than "respect". Though it was a social norm among the press corp to comply with such requests, the White House press office would revoke the credentials of anyone that violated the request. Additionally, Secret Service agents would also confiscate, without prior warning, the film of any private citizen seen photographing FDR as he was being helped in or out of vehicles, or other such "forbidden" moments.

You also didn't have to intentionally violate these rules to get into hot water. The pool photographer that photographed (IIRC) FDR making his acceptance speech for the 1944 Democratic nomination from a nearby railway car (FDR being too weak and ill to appear before the convention) was kicked out of the White House Press Corp because it was thought that FDR looked too gaunt in the image that was published.

Which bring up another subject. I can understand the desire to manage the public appearance of the effects of Polio on FDR, but I find the fact that FDR's inner circle opted to hide the fact, and lie about, that FDR was a dying man with congestive heart failure prior to the 1944 election cycle to be unconscionable. I suppose I can give them partial credit for it being a "time of war" effort to keep morale up, "see the effort through", etc., but I think that it would have been better to have had an orderly transition of power instead of leaving the country in a lurch after FDR's "sudden" death. The man was a ticking cardiac time bomb.

 

[asta]

Which bring up another subject. I can understand the desire to manage the public appearance of the effects of Polio on FDR, but I find the fact that FDR's inner circle opted to hide the fact, and lie about, that FDR was a dying man with congestive heart failure prior to the 1944 election cycle to be unconscionable. I suppose I can give them partial credit for it being a "time of war" effort to keep morale up, "see the effort through", etc., but I think that it would have been better to have had an orderly transition of power instead of leaving the country in a lurch after FDR's "sudden" death. The man was a ticking cardiac time bomb.

I haven't watched the last episode yet but I will be interested in how it addresses the transfer of leadership during war. I just finished reading an excellent book, The Girls of Atomic City, that addresses the enormous secrecy that surrounded the development of the atomic bomb. It was critical that very few people knew what was going on. I don't know if the required secrecy could have been maintained with a change in leadership. The Manhatten Project would never be able to be kept secret these days, I am amazed it happened then. We would probably impeach the president for doing this now without notifying every single member of congress of what they were doing.

 

[Deb in IA]

Which bring up another subject. I can understand the desire to manage the public appearance of the effects of Polio on FDR, but I find the fact that FDR's inner circle opted to hide the fact, and lie about, that FDR was a dying man with congestive heart failure prior to the 1944 election cycle to be unconscionable. I suppose I can give them partial credit for it being a "time of war" effort to keep morale up, "see the effort through", etc., but I think that it would have been better to have had an orderly transition of power instead of leaving the country in a lurch after FDR's "sudden" death. The man was a ticking cardiac time bomb.

I agree. There were major concerns that FDR would not make it through the campaign and election, much less a 4th term.

And yet, even knowing this, Harry Truman was kept woefully uninformed and unprepared before he took office. He did not even know about the Manhattan project until he was President.

 

[cabanafrau]

It did look like his banking holiday was pretty much genius, however, and made a huge difference in getting folks to return money to the banks.

He got through so many policies that we take for granted today -- like having our bank deposits insured. And of course, Social Security totally changed the lives of so many older and disabled Americans.

It's pretty telling that so many people had pictures of him on their walls!

I got the feeling that perhaps the "relationship" so many felt w/ FDR that led to his portrait on so many walls was probably more than a little tied to those Fireside Chats. It truly was the first time the nation as a whole was able to hear directly, and regularly, from a president.