Ken Burn's The Roosevelts

[asta]

Anyone watching the PBS The Roosevelt's mini series? I hope it is OK to post since it is about history and not current politics. I am learning a lot but find it very curious how the historians on the show seem to really like Teddy Roosevelt much more than FDR. There is a lot to criticize on both men but this is a different take for me. Around here FDR was idolized during my grandparents time. I wonder what they would think now.

On a side note: the wealthy really were different than everyone else. The family and personal details bring to mind a ruling class.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm in the third episode currently, so Franklin's real story is just getting going, more Teddy-centric up until now. Fascinating how different the political and cultural climate was then. So far I have such a different perspective on Eleanor. She really had such a heartbreaking early life.

 

[NotUrsula]

From a dramatic POV, TR was by far the more compelling character. He had a really outsize personality and always managed to be the center of attention everywhere he went. (People now tend to think he must have been a very big man, but he wasn't. He was around 5'9'. He was heavy in later years, but very fit as a young man. FDR was the taller one at 6'2")

FDR was a much more cerebral sort of person, even before the polio. While he was apparently a very compelling conversationalist, he wasn't flashy in comparison to TR (whom he practically worshipped, btw, in spite of their ideological differences.)

 

[HM]

We hadn't realized it was an epidose each night this week. Watched the first, missed the next two before we realized it. Luckily I was able to tape the 3rd episode in a later broadcast and I'm taping all the next ones. Unfortunately, I haven't found a replay of episode 2 to watch. Though, if it comes to it we can watch on computer.

 

[asta]

From a dramatic POV, TR was by far the more compelling character. He had a really outsize personality and always managed to be the center of attention everywhere he went. (People now tend to think he must have been a very big man, but he wasn't. He was around 5'9'. He was heavy in later years, but very fit as a young man. FDR was the taller one at 6'2")

FDR was a much more cerebral sort of person, even before the polio. While he was apparently a very compelling conversationalist, he wasn't flashy in comparison to TR (whom he practically worshipped, btw, in spite of their ideological differences.)

I had never realized how much. It is very interesting how FDR followed in TR steps in the early offices they held.

From school I seem to remember so much more history from early America. I think by the time we got around to the twentieth century things got a little rushed. American history should be taught as two courses.

 

[Deb in IA]

I'm in the third episode currently, so Franklin's real story is just getting going, more Teddy-centric up until now. Fascinating how different the political and cultural climate was then. So far I have such a different perspective on Eleanor. She really had such a heartbreaking early life.

And a very unhappy personal adult life as well, with a distant, unfaithful husband and a controlling, overbearing mother-in-law. No wonder she finally found fulfillment in her civic activities in human rights, women's issues, and serving at the United Nations.

 

[asta]

And a very unhappy personal adult life as well, with a distant, unfaithful husband and a controlling, overbearing mother-in-law. No wonder she finally found fulfillment in her civic activities in human rights, women's issues, and serving at the United Nations.

My husband says that he thinks that FDR's mother might have been the brains or at least the driving force behind everything. I loved how she told FDR that he could leave Eleanor and the children for his mistress but he would never receive a dime of his inheritance. That stopped him from at least divorce but it sounds like Eleanor was through with the marriage after that.

 

[Sanchez]

I enjoy documentaries and history but I am in the middle on Ken Burns. He takes on interesting topics and attempts a comprehensive review, however I do not always agree with his focus and he somehow finds a way to make interesting topics tedious.

For example, in Baseball the overwhelming focus was on segregation and then integration of the game. While that is a historically important issue he dedicated so much time towards that piece that he left out much of the history of the game itself. A more appropriate title would have been The Integration of Baseball. On one hand, I like that he made the attempt with Baseball. On the other, I find it to be a missed opportunity.

I enjoyed the Civil War and a few others. Have The Roosevelts recorded and have high hopes. Of course, Doris Kearns Goodwin is tedious and annoying (a difficult combination to achieve) and the worst part of Baseball (edging out Billy Crystal and his man crush on Mickey Mantle) and I hope that she does not have a prominent part.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

I've only watched the first episode, but have been recording the others...I like the people he chose to interview (even Doris Kerns Godwin, who I have enjoyed reading...Team of Rivals is fantastic) except I am surprised that Edmund Morris isn't one of them...since he wrote the definative series on TR (and won the Pulitzer for it) I kind of expected to see him included.

 

[cabanafrau]

And a very unhappy personal adult life as well, with a distant, unfaithful husband and a controlling, overbearing mother-in-law. No wonder she finally found fulfillment in her civic activities in human rights, women's issues, and serving at the United Nations.

Yes, but that's the Eleanor we've all known. My point was I did not know her early years were so grim. Her relief came in her education, which of course was cut short before she was ready to leave it.

 

[NotUrsula]

...
From school I seem to remember so much more history from early America. I think by the time we got around to the twentieth century things got a little rushed. American history should be taught as two courses.

I hear that ALL the time from people who never took much college-level history beyond Western Civ. High school courses for some odd reason keep going back to the Founders over and over and over, so by the time you make it past the Civil War it's always Spring Break, and the next hundred years gets crammed into about a month. I hate that, especially now that the country's history is getting longer. It needs to be divided out in some fashion and covered in multiple years, whether chronologically or topically.

Reading history can be great fun. There is a terrific popular history of TR's time as the Police Commissioner of NYC: Island of Vice. It's a rollicking read, and tells you a lot about TR's formative experiences in politics.

 

[Jeff in BigD]

I've actually found it really strange that a lot of historical docs about FDR are usually very biased, both for & against. I understand that with more current presidents (like JFK or Nixon, or to a lesser extent, Reagan or Clinton), they are carrying their own personal baggage into the narrative. Given the passage of time though & considering most of the people making these docs weren't even around during that administration, you'd assume there'd be a lot more objectivity.

When I watch a doc, I don't want to see a sales-pitch for sainthood any more than a complete hatchet-job.

I usually enjoy the Teddy Roosevelt ones (my political leanings aside), because they do tend to take a much more objective approach. I also happen to find his life adventures a lot more fascinating. My opinion is that this coupled with it being more "okay" in academia to be critical of TR may be why historians seem to like TR more.


Side note - if you're interested on another doc about TR, I really enjoyed this one:TR: An American Lion - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0369007

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Anyone watching the PBS The Roosevelt's mini series? I hope it is OK to post since it is about history and not current politics. I am learning a lot but find it very curious how the historians on the show seem to really like Teddy Roosevelt much more than FDR. There is a lot to criticize on both men but this is a different take for me. Around here FDR was idolized during my grandparents time. I wonder what they would think now.

On a side note: the wealthy really were different than everyone else. The family and personal details bring to mind a ruling class.

See, much different here. Teddy idolized, FDR not as much. The old timers were pretty split on him.

 

[eliza61]

On a side note: the wealthy really were different than everyone else. The family and personal details bring to mind a ruling class.

LOL, the wealthy are STILL really different.

I enjoyed the Civil War and a few others. Have The Roosevelts recorded and have high hopes. Of course, Doris Kearns Goodwin is tedious and annoying (a difficult combination to achieve) and the worst part of Baseball (edging out Billy Crystal and his man crush on Mickey Mantle) and I hope that she does not have a prominent part.

I enjoy DK Goodwin, she knows her stuff and I enjoy her books. I didn't see baseball, my dad watch it as he was a huge baseball fan (and an even bigger Yankee fan).

I enjoy documentaries, I've recorded this one and haven't had a chance to watch it. I'm really excited because I know nothing about Teddy.

LOL. I live in Philly, we like our Presidents really old.

 

[Geoff_M]

I really like the works of Ken Burns, and this is no exception. It's also nice to finally see Geoff Ward in front of the camera for a change. I came into the series in the middle of Episode 3, but I understand that PBS has past episodes up for streaming on their site. Among the items featured so far, the things that have surprised me include:
- The open hostility between the TR and FDR branches of the family.
- I thought FDR's polio was largely kept a secret from the public. I didn't realize it was in fact quite public before his run for the presidency.
- The extent of the physical estrangement between FDR and ER, particularly during his struggles with Polio. I cannot imagine only spending 4 weeks out of a year with my wife. Ditto for my young children.

Previously, the only reading on the topic I've done was David McCullough's Mornings on horseback The Story of an Extraordinary Family, and the Unique Child Who Became Theodore Roosevelt.

Folks here may also be interested in this criticism of the Burns series: What Ken Burns Doesn't Understand about the Roosevelts

 

[JanaDee]

I really like the works of Ken Burns, and this is no exception. It's also nice to finally see Geoff Ward in front of the camera for a change. I came into the series in the middle of Episode 3, but I understand that PBS has past episodes up for streaming on their site. Among the items featured so far, the things that have surprised me include:
- The open hostility between the TR and FDR branches of the family.
- I thought FDR's polio was largely kept a secret from the public. I didn't realize it was in fact quite public before his run for the presidency.
- The extent of the physical estrangement between FDR and ER, particularly during his struggles with Polio. I cannot imagine only spending 4 weeks out of a year with my wife. Ditto for my young children.

Previously, I only reading on the topic was David McCullough's Mornings on horseback The Story of an Extraordinary Family, and the Unique Child Who Became Theodore Roosevelt.

Folks here may also be interested in this criticism of the Burns series: What Ken Burns Doesn't Understand about the Roosevelts

FDR was more interested in spending time with his mistresses than his wife and children.

 

[Geoff_M]

FDR was more interested in spending time with his mistresses than his wife and children.

On that topic, I liked Ward's comments from last night (paraphrased): "FDR only gave 'pieces' of himself to a number of different people... nobody ever got 'all of him'."

 

[JanaDee]

Sara Roosevelt may have been the first helicopter mother in the world and FDR the first snowflake.

She ruined her son for life with her overbearing, intrusive obsession with him.

 

[Deb in IA]

Sara Roosevelt may have been the first helicopter mother in the world and FDR the first snowflake.

She ruined her son for life with her overbearing, intrusive obsession with him.

For someone "ruined", I think he did pretty well.

After all, he ONLY got the US out of the worst depression in history, and through the majority of WWII.

Maybe he wasn't the best husband or father, but no one is perfect.

 

[Sanchez]

For someone "ruined", I think he did pretty well.

After all, he ONLY got the US out of the worst depression in history, and through the majority of WWII.

Maybe he wasn't the best husband or father, but no one is perfect.

I think it is a gross overstatement. Entrance into the war, which he claimed to be opposed to, was a far more prominent factor.