Just returned from WDW (pretty sad!!!)

[DisDreaminMom]

Subscribing!

PP2, I totally agree with you. The idea of "ugly" people is a completely different topic than what he's talking about. And BTW, Walt Disney himself was a pretty big stickler on the whole clean, safe place with quality that the entire family would enjoy. When Disney corporate undercuts that, they only damage the brand. And the brand and what it represents is why I spend my $ there. I know the company history and I appreciate it. It should be mandatory to read Disney biographies (Roy and Walt) and also Disney Wars (about the Eisner years).

I was there in December and I agree that with Cast Members, they treat you with as much enthusiasm as you treat them. I am a happy person, and I knew what I was talking about and everyone was incredible. That said, I could tell where they were cutting corners and I guess if you had never been there before you might not notice, but I did in a few places. Epcot was fine, but I thought Magic Kingdom, especially Fantasy Land, seemed a little forlorn and dirty. Did anyone notice the thick layer of dust on the Trumpet players in the clock on IASW? I did, but I'm not going to let it ruin my vacation. But I was sad to see lots of chipped paint. I love White Gloves standards. It's why we go in the first place.

Given the economy, let's all hope Disney corporate can keep focused on what makes people love Disney and not on squeezing as many nickles out for Iger's bonus and stockholder dividends. I am a capitalist, but if I don't like the product, I'm not buying.

PP2 has it right- I'll pay more for quality than quantity every time. Let the ones who won't go somewhere else.

 

[3gr8kids]

I agree 100% also. Last trip on more than one occasion my DD 9 pointed out to people littering in front of us and why people do that. I didn't have much of an answer for her other than picking up the offenders paper or what not and deposit it in the trash can 10 ft away.

I understand you wanting to show your daughter by example (by picking up the offenders trash and throwing it away yourself), and I commend you for it, but it doesn't really solve the initial problem of the person littering in the first place. They will continue to litter. What we do, if/when we see someone blatantly littering, we politely tap them on the shoulder and say, "excuse me, but I think you dropped something" while pointing to the trash they just dropped. It has been our experience that once it has been brought to their attention, the offender will pick up their OWN litter and throw it away themselves. Just my .02!!

 

[jimmymac]

I understand you wanting to show your daughter by example (by picking up the offenders trash and throwing it away yourself), and I commend you for it, but it doesn't really solve the initial problem of the person littering in the first place. They will continue to litter. What we do, if/when we see someone blatantly littering, we politely tap them on the shoulder and say, "excuse me, but I think you dropped something" while pointing to the trash they just dropped. It has been our experience that once it has been brought to their attention, the offender will pick up their OWN litter and throw it away themselves. Just my .02!!

I like your approach

 

[yitbos96bb]

Isn't this about the time for someone with the Disney rose-colored glasses to jump in and say that "The magic is still there and will never change"? These are very different and darker times we live in now

How about this... The Disney Senior execs and Board members are greedy pieces of garbage and should cut their paychecks WAY WAY WAY WAY back, and cut out all bonuses until things are back on track. Tell Iger he "only" gets $200,000 a year or something.

Love the company, but I loather those who are running it into the ground.

 

[MCO737FO]

My wife and I just returned from WDW yesterday and I'm sad to see what that place has turned into. The parks were the dirtiest they have ever been, the managers were actually working as cashiers in the countries in EPCOT. The busses and boats were far and few between, the food was not up to their usual standards. I was just shocked being there. This was my 21st trip and I can honestly say that it's time to take a break from there until things get back to normal. The only positive thing that came out of our trip was the WONDERFUL cast members we met. They were outstanding! And it wasn't because they were worried about losing their jobs, they were genuinely happy. I take my hat off to all of them for working under terrible conditions making $8.35 hr.

I have the good fortune of transporting thousands of passengers in and out of Orlando every week for a major low-fare airline. I spend a good amount of time speaking with people in gate areas, etc., and I'm always interested to hear about their theme park adventures.

I can't tell you how many families I have spoken with lately that were so dissapointed about their overall WDW experience. Same comments I hear in this thread. Cleanliness, understaffed, service slippage, losing the "magic." The layoffs that are in process (and more to come) are only going to make matters worse. Not good for my business, but fortunately most people don't fly for Disney reasons. As a nearby resident (I can hear the fireworks every night from my bedroom), I visit Disney a few times a year and keep AP's for my family, I too have noticed the steady decline and show, quality, and service. So sad to see. Cutting Fantasmic, letting Everest continue for years with the Yeti brokes, no water falls & mist, closing attractions, etc. People will get the message and vote with their wallet.

I perfectly understand the need to control costs, but Disney is sacrificing it's heritage and brand on the altar of cost and shareholder return.

My thoughts are with the hundreds, and ultimately thousands of cast members who are my friends and neighbors, in my community and others nearby who will be losing or have lost their jobs after working so hard and proud to maintain the Disney "magic."

 

[lugnut33]

If your expectations are not met for the price you are paying then I recommend going off-site.

For example, the first few times we did the dining plan, but now I feel it has been cheapened and dumbed down and the prices have increased. I no longer feel it's a good deal, so I prefer to eat off-site now because there are plenty of good restaurants for a lot less money. Look, even the Hess gasstation across from DTD sells a better pizza than anywhere on Disney property, and a large one topping is only $7!! You could literally feed a party of 8 for under $20.

I still feel staying on-site is a good deal, even though it costs a lot more than off-site.

Another good example is the night time enterainment for adults. Now that DTD has nothing, we'll be heading to other spots off-site, including City Walk.

As for the parks. I was just at MK last Monday and I had a great time. I don't go arould looking for dust on trumpets though.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I have the good fortune of transporting thousands of passengers in and out of Orlando every week for a major low-fare airline. I spend a good amount of time speaking with people in gate areas, etc., and I'm always interested to hear about their theme park adventures.

I can't tell you how many families I have spoken with lately that were so dissapointed about their overall WDW experience. Same comments I hear in this thread. Cleanliness, understaffed, service slippage, losing the "magic." The layoffs that are in process (and more to come) are only going to make matters worse. Not good for my business, but fortunately most people don't fly for Disney reasons. As a nearby resident (I can hear the fireworks every night from my bedroom), I visit Disney a few times a year and keep AP's for my family, I too have noticed the steady decline and show, quality, and service. So sad to see. Cutting Fantasmic, letting Everest continue for years with the Yeti brokes, no water falls & mist, closing attractions, etc. People will get the message and vote with their wallet.

I perfectly understand the need to control costs, but Disney is sacrificing it's heritage and brand on the altar of cost and shareholder return.

My thoughts are with the hundreds, and ultimately thousands of cast members who are my friends and neighbors, in my community and others nearby who will be losing or have lost their jobs after working so hard and proud to maintain the Disney "magic."

People will continue to send their "Pixies" to people who didn't have a good trip.....reality means little to them becasue they are desperate for the magic....closing eyes to the truth if it's the only way.

The sad thing is is Disney doesn't give a POOP about pixie dust, magic, castmembers OR their guests. They live by the allmighty dollar - keeping corporate execs and shareholders happy. PERIOD.

People want to know what it's like from the inside......well I can tell you right now there is very little Pixie Dust to be found if you are a castmember!

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

As for the parks. I was just at MK last Monday and I had a great time. I don't go arould looking for dust on trumpets though.

Having a good time is totally irrelevent. I sure hope people have a good time at Disney.

As to the 'dust on trumpets' comment, if this is what you think we're discussing you've some how managed to read different things from this thread than me.

 

[lugnut33]

Having a good time is totally irrelevent. I sure hope people have a good time at Disney.

As to the 'dust on trumpets' comment, if this is what you think we're discussing you've some how managed to read different things from this thread than me.

I brought it up because a previous poster said: "Did anyone notice the thick layer of dust on the Trumpet players in the clock on IASW?"

As for the rest of what I wrote about going off-site if you're unhappy with the service or standards at the park then I stand by that. Disney does not have a lock on good times. Just like Disney is outsourcing everything, I can also outsource services or items I need. In one sense, I'm just following Disney's lead

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Lugnut, I think you are missing my point entirely, as PP2 tries to point out. First, I didn't go looking for anything but a great family experience. But as a Disney Store CM, I know the "standards" that are supposedly a core attribute of the company, because part of my job is to keep my store clean (and this was a very important part of Walt Disney's business and personal philosophy). I won't bore you with the details, and perhaps you are unaware, but anecdotes about the concept and practice of White Glove standards are at the heart of the Disney legacy.

So I admit I was looking at the IASW ride because my kids were on it with me for the 20th time that trip in December and so I saw the clock open and close several times. What the dust- and if you've been on that ride then you would know that it is hard to see "dust" unless it's pretty thick because you are several feet away-tells me is that WDW is cutting corners and not maintaining things the way they used to. (Full disclosure- my son is autistic so I've ridden that ride a lot over the years). In WDW's defense, maybe it was next on the cleaning schedule, who knows?

I think the sight of this made me wonder how many other parts of the parks are going "unloved" and neglected? Whether I had fun or not is an entirely different subject. And as a person in the transportation industry, would you not be more leery about boarding a vehicle of any kind that outwardly appeared neglected?

It's worth multiple thousands of dollars to vacation in a place that is clean, in good repair, and gives me a good entertainment experience. I WANT to keep going to Disney, and I'm the first to be telling everyone what a great place it is. I'm not bashing it, and I agree people are too quick to tear it to shreds. It just makes me sad to think that something that was so dearly loved by so many is let fall into decline by a different generation that has different priorities.

And for the person who tried to bring politics into this, please know that Walt Disney himself hated unions and was a champion of capitalism. I think some of the problems at WDW are because of the unions, though no one wants to talk about it. Flame away.

 

[timmyj74]

I Hope It Comes Around By Dec Thats When We Go Back Very Scary These Trips Cost Big Bucks And We All Deserve The Best Disney Has To Offer With The Resources There Given

 

[Lyric]

If you can overlook the shortcomings, good for you, but there will come a time (for each of us) that will be the breaking point. When enough is enough.

It's not as simple as looking at the glass half empty/half full because each of us have different thresholds, expectations and standards for Disney.

Disney has already failed me when the bottom line and selling the "brand", just like EVERY OTHER COMPANY, became their mantra. What will your personal breaking point be?

That's kind of an interesting question you pose. I think my personal threshold is a little higher than most because my first trip to a Disney park (Disneyland) was back in 1998, and I get to go every year or two- not every month/week/etc. I remember that there was a little peeling paint at DL, but that was really the only thing I noticed as being "sub-par". At the same time, I am sure that many people were frustrated at that point because the parks were not as pristine as they would have been under Walt (or at some other point in the past). Since that was my first experience, I think I tend to kind of overlook things that are not 100% perfect because I have never seen them at that level of perfection.

What you say is true, though. We do all have thresholds. Like I previously stated, it is still my "happiest place on earth" and I do try to overlook the chips/peeling paint/etc. when I notice it. At some point though, it could disappoint anyone regardless of their philosophical outlook on life or their perception of what level Disney parks need to be at to be perfect!

I guess my point is to agree that we do all have personal thresholds. Some of us are still in the honeymoon "Disney is great and will never completely disappoint me" stage, while others are a little more jaded. If Disney continues to let their parks' conditions slip though, at some point they will even lose us honeymooners. Hopefully it will not get to that point.

 

[JennaTX]

That's kind of an interesting question you pose. I think my personal threshold is a little higher than most because my first trip to a Disney park (Disneyland) was back in 1998, and I get to go every year or two- not every month/week/etc. I remember that there was a little peeling paint at DL, but that was really the only thing I noticed as being "sub-par". At the same time, I am sure that many people were frustrated at that point because the parks were not as pristine as they would have been under Walt (or at some other point in the past). Since that was my first experience, I think I tend to kind of overlook things that are not 100% perfect because I have never seen them at that level of perfection.

What you say is true, though. We do all have thresholds. Like I previously stated, it is still my "happiest place on earth" and I do try to overlook the chips/peeling paint/etc. when I notice it. At some point though, it could disappoint anyone regardless of their philosophical outlook on life or their perception of what level Disney parks need to be at to be perfect!

I guess my point is to agree that we do all have personal thresholds. Some of us are still in the honeymoon "Disney is great and will never completely disappoint me" stage, while others are a little more jaded. If Disney continues to let their parks' conditions slip though, at some point they will even lose us honeymooners. Hopefully it will not get to that point.

I love WDW, we went for the first time in 2002 and then went for the next four years. I haven't been since then, but that has just been because we decided to do other things (meaning DH didn't want to go again. )

But one thing I have read again and again on all of the boards here, is how Disney goes above and beyond....their themeing is better, the resorts, the extras, the CM's, etc. And that is why so many people may pay more to go there than other theme parks. And when I went that was totally true!!!!

So if the things that make Disney better are going down, then what is the point of spending more money there?

It seems like a Catch 22, Disney doesn't have the money for everything, but people who have been there before expect the extra "magic" that they usually give.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I love WDW, we went for the first time in 2002 and then went for the next four years. I haven't been since then, but that has just been because we decided to do other things (meaning DH didn't want to go again. )

But one thing I have read again and again on all of the boards here, is how Disney goes above and beyond....their themeing is better, the resorts, the extras, the CM's, etc. And that is why so many people may pay more to go there than other theme parks. And when I went that was totally true!!!!

So if the things that make Disney better are going down, then what is the point of spending more money there?

It seems like a Catch 22, Disney doesn't have the money for everything, but people who have been there before expect the extra "magic" that they usually give.

If you started going in 2002 then your expectations for what is great is already way below mine (I started the first year they opened).

At one point WDW did virtually everything in house. The gardening wasn't subbed out and it really showed, the mousekeeping team were treated like actual CM's and not just houskeepers in Disney clothing. The parks were abuzz with cleaning and repair crews from the time the parks closed until opening vs. doing the work while their "guests" are visiting as is done now.

The list goes on and on but for people who only started to find the magic after certain things were taken away (at any point in time) well then their acceptance bar is going to be different.

Disney Paks are probably still better than most others but I think Universal and Sea World have closed the gap considerably The reason's being equal portions of their (U & SW) better attempts at quality and Disney's rush backwards fin chase f the almighty quarterly numbers ... The difference being Mickey, Minnie and the actual Walt inspired legacies that still stand tall today.

 

[Bill3]

I am always amazed that most of you forget that WDW is a business that is supposed to make money. It is not a city park that is there for your benefit. Like most multi- gazillion$ corperations the #1 goal is to make money and keep stockholders happy, not be overly concerned about YOUR perhaps personal issue.Remember that most visitors are first timers and could give a hoot about Mr Toad or The Adventurers Club or the fact that in 1988 you got your picture taken with Mickey and Minnie and messed around with them because no one else is in line. For the majority of visitors it is truly a new magical experience and they love it.
Chill out, be thankful that you got to go in our present situation and don't think Walt would be to upset, he would just biuld another land or something on his way to the bank.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I am always amazed that most of you forget that WDW is a business that is supposed to make money. It is not a city park that is there for your benefit. Like most multi- gazillion$ corperations the #1 goal is to make money and keep stockholders happy, not be overly concerned about YOUR perhaps personal issue.Remember that most visitors are first timers and could give a hoot about Mr Toad or The Adventurers Club or the fact that in 1988 you got your picture taken with Mickey and Minnie and messed around with them because no one else is in line. For the majority of visitors it is truly a new magical experience and they love it.
Chill out, be thankful that you got to go in our present situation and don't think Walt would be to upset, he would just biuld another land or something on his way to the bank.

I have already pointed out that WE are aware that Disney is a business and you sir, are the type of "guest" that they've been banking on in recent years. People who think it's OK for Iger to make 13 million while massive layoffs are taking place. People who say "well, they're still better than their competetion", people that accept the lowering standards bedcause this is "what businesses do".

Walt ran a successful business (yes a different time and place) based on quality first. It worked. (Note: PIXAR followed the same model more recently and it worked too). People flocked to and eventually revered the Disney business model that was virtually unattainable to other companies. Universities actually had classes studying the model! But after Walt died the company did something very unWalt like ... they started chasing the dollar rather than letting the dollars come to them. Remember Walt PROVED that quality will beat out quantity, especially in the long run. So why change? No guts, no courage, no foresight AND (and this is a big AND) a Board of Directors so unable to "get it" that they tie the Big Cheese's main salary incentive to SHOPRT TERM GROWTH!!! That is what is UNBELIEVABLE, sir.

Walt would surely not be happy with anything this company stands for today.


I

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Hey, hate to tell you, but there are plenty of other places for people to go and spend money, especially during these times. That's the point. Sure, cut back, Sure, tighten things down. I am not denying anybody the ability to make money. I am sure the Disney stockholders would love it if the stock were even trading at what it was in November. As for the assertion that the majority of visitors are first timers, I am not so sure about that. Look at DVC and AP holders- how big of a percentage are they in filling rooms during off peak times? Would they be building so many DVC units if they were counting on the WDW Virgins to keep them afloat? How much money do those Disney lovers spend on merchandise compared to people who are visiting for the first time and don't want a $2,000 Mickey sculpture?

During the next few years, Disney might be counting on those repeat visitors more and more, as people who have never been there before aren't as likely to spend the big money to go somewhere new and that has no emotional tie.

They don't ask you to declare if you've visited "five or more times" on the Guest reservations line for nothing...

I lived in FL in 2005-2008 and I never even visited Universal one time, did Sea World twice, and WDW too many times to count. I never visited WDW as a child, but as a mom I feel the Disney brand is something my family can experience for a long time. I thought about going to Universal. I just don't like the characters they have there, though. Sea World is interesting, but I like my animals animated or like they are at AK. The whole whale thing makes me sad.

I think Walt Disney would have thrown in the towel when the unions got so powerful. He was much more concerned about the creative side of things but the idea that the unions and contract labor have taken over compared to a "family" CM pool would make him sad. I think he favored more of Toyota shop than a Big Three model, IYKWIM.

 

[redrosesix]

When we were still going often I did notice a decline in the food quality. Part of that is just the changes to the menus, though - they've removed many of my favorite foods and replaced them with things I don't like as well. Other people might like the new offerings better. I also dislike the way they seem to be homogenizing the offerings . . . it seems like many of the counter service places are offering the same things, especially as far as sides and desserts. There used to be more variety everywhere.

That was exactly what we noticed too. Especially the sides on the kids' meals and the desserts. The kids meals also had less variety between CS locations.

And I noticed a lot of the CS restaurants making mistakes in orders, especially adding fries as a side to our entrees when we hadn't ordered or paid for them (a result of so many guests being on DDP?) -- after the 3rd batch of free fries, we just asked them to throw them out at the counter. Pretty much every time I ordered at a CS, the lines were backed up because there were less cashiers open (sometimes only 1 cashier) and other guests were having problems with getting their orders filled correctly. It seemed like everyone was busy in the kitchen but they couldn't keep up.

 

[jimmymac]

I am always amazed that most of you forget that WDW is a business that is supposed to make money. It is not a city park that is there for your benefit. Like most multi- gazillion$ corperations the #1 goal is to make money and keep stockholders happy, not be overly concerned about YOUR perhaps personal issue.Remember that most visitors are first timers and could give a hoot about Mr Toad or The Adventurers Club or the fact that in 1988 you got your picture taken with Mickey and Minnie and messed around with them because no one else is in line. For the majority of visitors it is truly a new magical experience and they love it.
Chill out, be thankful that you got to go in our present situation and don't think Walt would be to upset, he would just biuld another land or something on his way to the bank.

Disney is held to an extremely high standard because they established that standard long ago. That dedication captured generations of very loyal fans. It was once joked that if you dropped a candy wrapper at WDW a castmember would pick it up before it hit the ground. Those standards are long gone now. Disney had a unique combination of keeping the shareholders happy at the same time as maintaining standards that nobody else in any business could match. But that has changed now. The parks aren't losing money, they're just no making as much. For a couple of years, when the dollar was so low against the pound and the euro, Disney didn't need its loyal base as much, so quality at the parks was allowed to slip. 'Who's going to notice' and 'they're not coming back anyway' seemed to be the prevailing approach. But now the Europeans are no longer coming and Disney desperately needs anyone in the parks - hence the huge discounts. Disney has sacrificed its heritage and unique brand name on the altar of cost cutting and shareholder return. It's really sad because many of the once loyal base will not be going back again

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Jimmymac and PeterPirate2 are spot on. Do you think anyone at Disney contemplates this anymore? Or are we just hanging on to a memory? Does Roy Disney just sail his yacht and the point is moot? 'Cause I'll be reduced to going to Kings Island and save myself a few thousand dollars and 24 hours of car time or maybe just stay home...