Just because it’s not against the rules doesn’t make it right

[SmithSmith]

Yeah, except the difference is wrong is just YOUR opinion. Because Disney has deemed it's not wrong. They know about many of these, and allow them. In fact, the CMs will themselves tell you about them, or talk to you about the loopholes. So just because YOU think it's wrong, doesn't mean it is. And Disney apparently agrees that it isn't. If they were that bothered by them,and felt they were losing money, or hurting others,they WOULD put a stop to it, as they have other loopholes in the past.

Interesting. Not sure what loopholes you're listing, but I've called WDW twice trying to book one of their loopholes and was told I couldn't because it's against policy. Also told that CMs would've been reprimanded or fired for suggesting them.

On a different loophole, there's writing on the WDW website that says guests are not entitled to additional perks just because they have extra magicbands.

 

[quandrea]

Yeah, except the difference is wrong is just YOUR opinion. Because Disney has deemed it's not wrong. They know about many of these, and allow them. In fact, the CMs will themselves tell you about them, or talk to you about the loopholes. So just because YOU think it's wrong, doesn't mean it is. And Disney apparently agrees that it isn't. If they were that bothered by them,and felt they were losing money, or hurting others,they WOULD put a stop to it, as they have other loopholes in the past.

But regardless, it must be nice to live in such a bubble where you can judge the decisions of others, especially in the situations I mentioned. You're a hypocrite if you think for one second that you wouldn't do everything in your power to grant your dying child's wish. Especially if that meant using a loophole that is not breaking any rules. And even if you wouldn't, that's great, but quite frankly, it's a pretty cold-hearted jerk that would judge those that do.

I couldn't disagree more. It is difficult to do the right thing in exactly the circumstances you mention. Those are tests of character. It's easy to do the right thing in ideal circumstances. The test of your mettle is doing the right thing when it's hard. Next month I'm taking my nieces to disney. They will never go again due to some variety of circumstances. I haven't had to bend the rules to give them a magical trip. The fact is, regardless of how many meet and greets we do or rides we ride, the trip will be great. People on these boards get so bogged down by having the perfect trip. No matter what, it's going to be great.

 

[DisneyKidds]

In fact, the CMs will themselves tell you about them, or talk to you about the loopholes.

Sorry, if we are talking throw away reservations or multiple MDE accounts and old MBs for extra day of FP+.....I'm not buying this.

For some there is always a reason. As my cheap tip stiffing brother said, it's a kill or be killed world out there, and I gotta do what I have to in order to survive. For starters, being in a bar on your ski vacation or taking a trip to WDW isn't necessary for anyone to survive, so out goes that justification. Second, the question I asked my brother in the middle of his particular rationalization was......is that what you would teach your kids to do? If the answer to that question is no.......

Hey, I'm no saint. I've tried not to judge the action here too much. I've taken an 'ill gotten' FP in my lifetime. I've certainly done things I'm not going to teach my kids to do. However, you gotta be real about it. Just be honest and say....you know what, I know this isn't how the system was intended to work and it probably isn't kosher.....but I can, and I will, and I don't give a whit weather you like it or not!

The act doesn't bother me as much as the rationalization.

 

[mshanson3121]

I couldn't disagree more. It is difficult to do the right thing in exactly the circumstances you mention. Those are tests of character. It's easy to do the right thing in ideal circumstances. The test of your mettle is doing the right thing when it's hard. Next month I'm taking my nieces to disney. They will never go again due to some variety of circumstances. I haven't had to bend the rules to give them a magical trip. The fact is, regardless of how many meet and greets we do or rides we ride, the trip will be great. People on these boards get so bogged down by having the perfect trip. No matter what, it's going to be great.

And that's great. But that's YOUR opinion. Because there still is no right or wrong here, except what you perceive, because there is no rule against (some) of these loopholes. My point is - NO ONE has the right to judge people using these loopholes, because (again, some) of them are not against any rules. The ones that break the rules, then yes, certainly. That's different, but some of these are being permitted by Disney.

It's the same thing as smoking - you might think it's wrong and choose not to do it, but you have no right to judge anyone else that does it, because it's legal, it's their choice, and you have no idea their reasons behind doing it. And your own personal opinions are not the rule by which other's decisions are to be measured. It's 100% for certain that there are perfectly fine decisions that every single person on this board makes, that are wrong in the eyes of others. Same goes for anything - tattooing, piercing, drinking, playing the lottery, I dunno... insert the million things in here that are permissible by rule/law, but that someone has a problem with. No one has the right to judge others for their permissible decisions, just because they don't line up with what your personal beliefs are, especially when you don't know what has brought them to make those decisions. That was my whole issue with the original post, and many of the comments in it.

At the end of the day, threads like this are pointless. They come off as judgmental, offend others, they accomplish nothing. If something bothers you enough to complain about it, instead of coming on here and wasting your time on something that will accomplish nothing, instead do something about it (and that's a generalized you, just anyone). Be pro-active and call Disney and share your concerns. If enough people complain, then maybe a change will happen.

 

[mshanson3121]

Sorry, if we are talking throw away reservations or multiple MDE accounts and old MBs for extra day of FP+.....I'm not buying this.

For some there is always a reason. As my cheap tip stiffing brother said, it's a kill or be killed world out there, and I gotta do what I have to in order to survive. For starters, being in a bar on your ski vacation or taking a trip to WDW isn't necessary for anyone to survive, so out goes that justification. Second, the question I asked my brother in the middle of his particular rationalization was......is that what you would teach your kids to do? If the answer to that question is no.......

Hey, I'm no saint. I've tried not to judge the action here too much. I've taken an 'ill gotten' FP in my lifetime. I've certainly done things I'm not going to teach my kids to do. However, you gotta be real about it. Just be honest and say....you know what, I know this isn't how the system was intended to work and it probably isn't kosher.....but I can, and I will, and I don't give a whit weather you like it or not!

The act doesn't bother me as much as the rationalization.

I really don't care if you buy it or not. I have had a conversation with a CM about throw away rooms, and was told that no, it's not breaking any rules, since you are indeed paying for the service. They (Disney) do not care if you actually sleep in the room or not. (I can see where it gets shady when people are booking the room, then cancelling it after receiving their bands so that they are receiving the MB/FP etc... for free). I fail to see where I said that it was a need to survive. There are different "needs", some are in reference to a situation, such as was the case in my comment. The "need" I referenced was that in order for her to be able to grant her dying daughter's wish (which was to meet Elsa), she had to/needed to do the throwaway room. Which doesn't even begin to compare to your healthy, out of work brother who didn't tip the waitress as much as you'd like. They're not even close to being the same situation and it's absurd that you'd try to compare them.

 

[mshanson3121]

Interesting. Not sure what loopholes you're listing, but I've called WDW twice trying to book one of their loopholes and was told I couldn't because it's against policy. Also told that CMs would've been reprimanded or fired for suggesting them.

On a different loophole, there's writing on the WDW website that says guests are not entitled to additional perks just because they have extra magicbands.

I'm only familiar with a couple of the loopholes. The booking of a throwaway room is permissible by Disney, since you are giving them money and paying for that service. I've had a conversation with a CM about it. They could care less if you actually choose to sleep on their premises or not, as long as you pay for the room, lol. I think the problem area is when people cancel the room once their bands arrive, so that they're then getting their MB/extra FP for free. That is something that I imagine Disney will eventually shut down, since they lose money on it. I'm sure the extra magic bands thing (seriously that thread made my head spin... it's a lot of work) I'm sure is a no no.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Loophole......commonly defined as an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the intent, implied or specifically stated, of the system.

Can we agree that we are talking about things that Disney didn't design the system for, and didn't intend for people to do?

From there we can talk about the whole....'but they haven't eliminated (fixed) it so'.....discussion.

 

[SmithSmith]

I'm only familiar with a couple of the loopholes. The booking of a throwaway room is permissible by Disney, since you are giving them money and paying for that service. I've had a conversation with a CM about it. They could care less if you actually choose to sleep on their premises or not, as long as you pay for the room, lol. I think the problem area is when people cancel the room once their bands arrive, so that they're then getting their MB/extra FP for free. That is something that I imagine Disney will eventually shut down, since they lose money on it. I'm sure the extra magic bands thing (seriously that thread made my head spin... it's a lot of work) I'm sure is a no no.

Sorry, I don't believe that it's permissible by Disney. I spoke with no less than 8 people regarding throwaway rooms, 2 were reservationists and the rest were Guest Services, they all told me it was against company policy.

 

[mshanson3121]

Sorry, I don't that it's permissible by Disney. I spoke with no less than 8 people regarding throwaway rooms, 2 were reservationists and the rest were Guest Services, they all told me it was against company policy.

Editing this... I read your response wrong. I have no idea, but I was told that your do not have to sleep in your room to be able to book a room with them and receive the perks.

 

[DisneyKidds]

They (Disney) do not care if you actually sleep in the room or not. (I can see where it gets shady when people are booking the room, then cancelling it after receiving their bands so that they are receiving the MB/FP etc... for free).

I agree with you there. However, a kept room (slept in or not) is not a thrown away room. Big distinction. I was under the impression that most throw away roomers were canceling. As you say, that's debatably shady. Paying for a room/service/benefit, whether you sleep there or not? No rules against it, I don't think it's a debatable tactic.

Always hard when you throw the dying kid in the mix, but there are better programs out there to try and realize those dying dreams than a frantic, heartbroken, soon to be grieving parent having to jump through hoops and circumvent systems. Those parents don't have time for that.

 

[SmithSmith]

To be clear, I'm talking about a throwaway room that is kept and not cancelled. Guest services told me that I was not allowed to book a room with the intention of not using it because it was against policy. One of the reasons cited was that it's a safety issue, they need to know who is on property. Also, Any CM suggesting this would be reprimanded or fired, and they're working to close the loophole.

 

[mshanson3121]

I agree with you there. However, a kept room (slept in or not) is not a thrown away room. Big distinction. I was under the impression that most throw away roomers were canceling. As you say, that's debatably shady. Paying for a room/service/benefit, whether you sleep there or not? No rules against it, I don't think it's a debatable tactic.

Always hard when you throw the dying kid in the mix, but there are better programs out there to try and realize those dying dreams than a frantic, heartbroken, soon to be grieving parent having to jump through hoops and circumvent systems. Those parents don't have time for that.

Originally, I was under the impression that most people booked/paid for and kept the room, as you said hard to debate that one. You're paying for the service. I never knew about the idea of canceling the room until someone mentioned it to me privately, and I've since seen it mentioned on that thread.

Yes, there are programs like Make a Wish etc... What many don't realize is that a) a lot of people aren't approved b) even if they are, it can take a long time before the wish actually happens (another friend of mine, her child has been waiting over a year for her wish). Sometimes, the child doesn't have that long, or the parents just aren't comfortable waiting that long, because typically with serious illness, you just never know. From what I know, the DAS card can help, but again, I prefer not to judge. I can understand using the loophole (for the record, it was the throwaway room, paid in full).

 

[DisneyKidds]

To be clear, I'm talking about a throwaway room that is kept and not cancelled. Guest services told me that I was not allowed to book a room with the intention of not using it because it was against policy. One of the reasons cited was that it's a safety issue, they need to know who is on property. Also, Any CM suggesting this would be reprimanded or fired, and they're working to close the loophole.

In comes my own self serving, hypocritical justification......as it's the same policies that say you can't have 5 people in a room whose occupancy is 4.

Hey, I told you I'm no saint.....and just last weekend I had 8 people (4 of which were kids) in a room whose reservation was for 6. Not at WDW, but still...

But again, I'm not above rule breaking, and I try not to judge others too much....and I'll boldy proclaim to be an occupancy exceeder (nobody stopped me at the door) when it suits me, and I don't give a whit whether you like it or not!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Yes, there are programs like Make a Wish etc... What many don't realize is that a) a lot of people aren't approved b) even if they are, it can take a long time before the wish actually happens (another friend of mine, her child has been waiting over a year for her wish). Sometimes, the child doesn't have that long, or the parents just aren't comfortable waiting that long, because typically with serious illness, you just never know. From what I know, the DAS card can help, but again, I prefer not to judge. I can understand using the loophole (for the record, it was the throwaway room, paid in full).

Hey, I hear you. I'm a cad....not to deny the dying child, but because I'd probably do the same thing. However, my answer to any criticism wouldn't be 'it's ok because'.....it would be 'I know it's not what I'm 'supposed' to do, but I don't care'. That's all I'm saying....

 

[SmithSmith]

Originally, I was under the impression that most people booked/paid for and kept the room, as you said hard to debate that one. You're paying for the service. I never knew about the idea of canceling the room until someone mentioned it to me privately, and I've since seen it mentioned on that thread.

Yes, there are programs like Make a Wish etc... What many don't realize is that a) a lot of people aren't approved b) even if they are, it can take a long time before the wish actually happens (another friend of mine, her child has been waiting over a year for her wish). Sometimes, the child doesn't have that long, or the parents just aren't comfortable waiting that long, because typically with serious illness, you just never know. From what I know, the DAS card can help, but again, I prefer not to judge. I can understand using the loophole (for the record, it was the throwaway room, paid in full).

Give Kids the World is the charity I've heard does the most in granting wishes, and I'm pretty sure they've promised to never turn anyone away.

http://www.gktw.org/wgo/pdf/wish-step-by-step.pdf

http://www.gktw.org

 

[DisneyKidds]

Yeah, don't know if your friend took their trip yet, but I hope you are able to help them make the most of their trip, and their precious time. Sometimes the rules be damned!

 

[Luckybee]

I agree with you there. However, a kept room (slept in or not) is not a thrown away room. Big distinction. I was under the impression that most throw away roomers were canceling. As you say, that's debatably shady. Paying for a room/service/benefit, whether you sleep there or not? No rules against it, I don't think it's a debatable tactic.

Always hard when you throw the dying kid in the mix, but there are better programs out there to try and realize those dying dreams than a frantic, heartbroken, soon to be grieving parent having to jump through hoops and circumvent systems. Those parents don't have time for that.

Nope...this is where the lines continuously get blurred. A throwaway room by definition was never meant to be cancelled. Then it would be a cancelled room. Throwaway meant thrown away, in others words, a room booked and PAID for, that one chooses not to sleep in. What happened from the beginning is that it began to evolve into something else, that "else" being that people began to book and then cancel...which is not as I said, a throwaway. I'd like to think that most using throwaways are not cancelling them and quite frankly from what I've seen since this started, I don't think they are. I also don't think they are being used as much as in the beginning where they started in order to let offsiters book advance fp's since originally advance fp's were not available to offsiters. The booking then cancelling stuff was never what the throwaway was supposed to be !

I agree with you that a "true" throwaway is not a debatable topic which is why Im not going to debate with anyone whether a "true" throwaway is legit. The moderators have made themselves perfectly clear about that in the other thread, and quite frankly the arguments contra are rather silly in that some have actually stated that it isn't ok to book a room, PAY for it and then not sleep in it.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Thanks for clarifying Lucky. What little time I spent on the throwaway threads obviously didn't give me the whole picture.

 

[mshanson3121]

I'm sorry I was so short too. This just hit so close to home, mostly because I understand why people like my friend did this. I've been that parent who didn't know if their child was going to live to see their next birthday. I don't wish that hell on anyone. As it is, I'm beyond stressed out because she's facing a possible hospitalization very soon for another issue. Parents will do most anything to give their child that special experience, and let's face it A&E seems to be the biggest driver for an early FP+... and having our little girl who on top of everything else has ASD, and is fixated on seeing her, and will be devastated if she doesn't see her.... we'll use our DAS, but that's not without it's limitations, so I still "get" why someone would use a loophole, and it's just sad when everyone is all judged alike for their actions, without their reasons being known.

But I do also get that there are loopholes being used that are blatantly against the rules, and that there are many people using some of those not legal loopholes for no reason other than "I want more rides and less time in lines!" and how that would be frustrating.

Thank you for that link, I will pass it on to her. We're in Canada, not sure if they work there or not, but worth a try.

 

[SmithSmith]

I agree with you that a "true" throwaway is not a debatable topic which is why Im not going to debate with anyone whether a "true" throwaway is legit. The moderators have made themselves perfectly clear about that in the other thread, and quite frankly the arguments contra are rather silly in that some have actually stated that it isn't ok to book a room, PAY for it and then not sleep in it.

So not looking for an argument, I just want to provide some balance. That balance being that Pete, the owner of these boards and Dreams Unlimited, has stated he does not agree with the practice of booking throwaway rooms and doesn't allow his agents to promote or book them.