Just Back... FP+ Pros & Cons

[Laketravis]

The experience is worse for those who were savvy enough to take full advantage of legacy FastPass in the past.

Longer SB lines affect everyone, regardless of how savvy some might have been with a system no longer in use.

 

[RebeccaRabbit]

We found similar pros and cons to FP+, like you OP. I really LOVED not having to criss-cross the park, and constantly rearrange plans on the fly based on what FP- time we happened to pull. This really saved us lots of time, and made touring much more relaxing.

However, the two major cons of FP+ for us were 1) not being able to get decent replacement FP+ day of if something was down, or plans changed for some reason, and 2) limit to 3 per day (we went before a 4th was possible). This last was worst in MK, where we used to get about 5 FP- per day.

But we just got back from Universal and I must say I HATED their Express Pass! (From what I've read on these boards, I must be the only one in the world who does not love it, I know...) I have never waited in so many lines in my life. At Disney, our strategy was this: go early and ride mid-level rides SB during the first two hours. No lines. At mid-day, use a couple FP on headliners (no waits), see a show, and eat lunch. Skedaddle by 1:00 or 2:00 for a relaxing swim/break at hotel. Return in early evening to use additional headliner FP (no wait) and eat dinner. Late evening ride more low/mid-level rides, which would by then be walk-ons. This worked really well for us (at low crowd times) - we walked on to almost everything with no wait at all, and NEVER waited in line more than 10-15 minutes, that only on very rare occasions (Soarin' for example, where there is a bit of a wait even with FP). Granted, we are the type of people who like to do a variety of things throughout the day, not just ride three headliners over and over. This strategy worked really well for us.

At Universal, by contrast, it seemed we were always waiting in line, even with EP (which came with our hotel stay). Maybe we were just using the wrong strategy, but I'm not sure what else to do there. Since EP is useless on the rides that actually have the longest lines, you've got no choice but rope drop SB. We waited 45 min and 20 min for Gringotts during Early Entry (for which we had to get up at 5:30 am Central Time ), and also explored HP world during the mornings since that was the only time you could breathe in there. By the time we got to the other rides at mid-morning, most had waits of 20-30 min or more. The actual wait time with EP was really unpredictable - one time (on Spidey) SB was listed at 20 min, and we actually waited 20 min in the Express line (basically everyone in line had express!), while another time it said SB was 30 and we waited 10. You just never knew what you were in for - but there was almost always a wait even with express.

Also, crowds didn't seem to thin out at all during the evening there, unlike at Disney, so evening touring was not much help. Possibly because Uni closes so early (8:00 during our trip - one day US even closed at 6:00!), so everybody sticks it out till the very end. Maybe also due to the older clientele there that stays up later.

It WAS nice to not have to schedule rides - I appreciated the flexibility and spontaneity of EP. But I personally would take any kind of FP over EP, since I am such a line wimp! I know I am probably the only one on here who thinks like that...

 

[DisneyKidds]

Kidd, we've been back and forth on this enough already simply because you don't get the response you seem to be looking for.

I'd be happy with any direct answer to any of those questions. Contrary to what you say, you haven't provided any, anywhere. That's ok, I know you won't. You can't afford to.

As for posting a touring plan, I'll try to get to that tonight, and not gum up this thread with it. As you know, there are a lot of moving parts and things I may want to do that others don't, and I'm sure you are salivating to jump all over that, but I'll try.

Would you be willing to do your same regarding your days where you did your 3 FP+ attractions and did nothing but wait in long lines after that? I've inquired about that a few times, but don't seem to have gotten an answer.

 

[Suvadoo]

Exactly what we experienced. But unlike a PP, that actually did NOT encourage me to spend more money. It actually left a bitter taste in my mouth, and made me NOT want to give them more, since I already felt like I was getting less for the money spent on tickets than in the past.

I really think this should be WDW's new ad campaign for 2015:
WDW: Pay more and experience less!

 

[DisneyFive]

Great post OP. Thanks for sharing and taking the time to write it up.

Pretty much summed up my thoughts completely.

Biggest negatives... tiering, and not being able to ride the main attractions multiple times

Biggest positives... knowing you have your rides all set when you want them, even on arrival day, and not running all over the parks.

Dan

 

[Laketravis]

Would you be willing to do your same regarding your days where you did your 3 FP+ attractions and did nothing but wait in long lines after that? I've inquired about that a few times, but don't seem to have gotten an answer.

I've already posted it.

 

[DisneyKidds]

At Disney, our strategy was this: go early and ride mid-level rides SB during the first two hours. No lines. At mid-day, use a couple FP on headliners (no waits), see a show, and eat lunch. Skedaddle by 1:00 or 2:00 for a relaxing swim/break at hotel. Return in early evening to use additional headliner FP (no wait) and eat dinner. Late evening ride more low/mid-level rides, which would by then be walk-ons. This worked really well for us (at low crowd times) - we walked on to almost everything with no wait at all, and NEVER waited in line more than 10-15 minutes, that only on very rare occasions (Soarin' for example, where there is a bit of a wait even with FP). Granted, we are the type of people who like to do a variety of things throughout the day, not just ride three headliners over and over. This strategy worked really well for us.

Thanks, Rabbit! You saved me some time posting the general framework for Lake that I recommend!!!! I'll give him more detail later though, when I have time.

This exact strategy works for us, with the same results, but during the busiest time of year. Did it in July and between Christmas and New Years and it worked like a charm. We would actually hit headliners at rope drop, and often hop to a different park later in the day with FP+ in hand.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I've already posted it.

Recently? Must have missed it. Which thread, and when? I'll go find it. Thank you.

 

[Laketravis]

This exact strategy works for us, with the same results, but during the busiest time of year. Did it in July and between Christmas and New Years and it worked like a charm. We would actually hit headliners at rope drop, and often hop to a different park later in the day with FP+ in hand.

So between Christmas and New Years in the parks after dinner, which attractions were you able to walk on without FP?

 

[goodgodmrsmolly]

Agreed, the longer SB waits for attractions that never really had them is what I consider to be the biggest downside to FP+

As a local AP holder, the trip planning part is out for me and I can't comment on that. My experience would than be different from many people. My views though are;

The positives are that I can make selections before I get there and not have to run around to see FP times and if available. I can come in and take my 3 rides on a Saturday night and enjoy it., but I often don't know until that day and many FP are gone by the time I look. 7DMT and TSMM are rides I will almost never get to take. Sucks for me, but that is the way it is. I like being able to switch FP on the fly, it works well and I usually get the same ride just a little later.

But to me the negatives outweigh the good. SB lines are just plain longer. One could show up in the evening and ride POTC, HM, Goofy's and others with virtually no wait. That is gone almost completely, even on slow days. There is no way to deny that SB is worse and it makes it harder for all. I HATE HATE HATE the tier-ing of rides. You simply are not going to ride a main attraction twice on almost any one day with moderate crowds without long waits unless you are there at RD.

I think the APP still needs lots of work. For hopping, I should be able to say when I am looking to go to the park. I could then go to one in the morning and another to use FP later. Yes, it can be done, but it is a PITA now. Let me tell you when I will be at the park, then you tell me what FP are available.

I personally feel that I get a lesser experience now with FP+. I have learned to accept that this is the way it is and deal with it and still go often, though I may very well not renew my AP and only do it every other year from now on.

 

[erc]

Longer SB lines affect everyone, regardless of how savvy some might have been with a system no longer in use.

SB lines are longer because more people are using FastPass. The same thing would have happened for headline attractions under legacy FP, if FP usage was as high as it is today.

There are probably some people who never used FP before who are thinking, "Wow, I got right on Splash Mountain". We always had to wait 90 minutes for that ride.

And there are some folks who are new to WDW who have already bought into the FP+ system (my MIL this upcoming trip) who would have been clueless about the old FP system.

The leveling out of of the experience means there are going to be winners and there are going to be losers, and some of us who were already on the mid-line will be about the same.

 

[Suvadoo]

SB lines are longer because more people are using FastPass. The same thing would have happened for headline attractions under legacy FP, if FP usage was as high as it is today.There are probably some people who never used FP before who are thinking, "Wow, I got right on Splash Mountain". We always had to wait 90 minutes for that ride.

And there are some folks who are new to WDW who have already bought into the FP+ system (my MIL this upcoming trip) who would have been clueless about the old FP system.

The leveling out of of the experience means there are going to be winners and their are going to be losers, and some of us who were already on the mid-line will be about the same.

Under Legacy, only headliners had FP. More people are using FP+ because more rides have FP+. That's the primary reason FP+usage is higher. Want to make FP+ usage even higher? Make all rides FP+!

 

[Laketravis]

SB lines are longer because more people are using FastPass.

How many more are using FP+ ?

I would counter that when WDW claims "twice as many guests now use FP", it's because twice as many attractions are part of the resource pool and everyone is initially required to choose 3.

 

[goodgodmrsmolly]

SB lines are longer because more people are using FastPass. The same thing would have happened for headline attractions under legacy FP, if FP usage was as high as it is today.

There are probably some people who never used FP before who are thinking, "Wow, I got right on Splash Mountain". We always had to wait 90 minutes for that ride.

And there are some folks who are new to WDW who have already bought into the FP+ system (my MIL this upcoming trip) who would have been clueless about the old FP system.

The leveling out of of the experience means there are going to be winners and there are going to be losers, and some of us who were already on the mid-line will be about the same.

It is also that more rides have FP now, and many rides, like POTC, now use half the ride almost exclusively for FP users. The thing that boggles my mind is how did increasing FP usage make so many rides have such longer SB even during slow times. Anyone could have walked on POTC many times during the day this time of the year in the past, yet that never happens now. Unless people are taking the rides now when in the past they just wouldn't have just because they have a FP.... It just seems every SB line is longer now. Though it seems like the posted times are often over inflated. not sure if that is by design or just needed the system to get better.

 

[Laketravis]

It is also that more rides have FP now, and many rides, like POTC, now use half the ride almost exclusively for FP users. The thing that boggles my mind is how did increasing FP usage make so many rides have such longer SB even during slow times. Anyone could have walked on POTC many times during the day this time of the year in the past, yet that never happens now. Unless people are taking the rides now when in the past they just wouldn't have just because they have a FP.... It just seems every SB line is longer now. Though it seems like the posted times are often over inflated. not sure if that is by design or just needed the system to get better.

My guess is maybe they underestimated how many attractions many guests really did like to enjoy multiple times, and removing that ability of doing so with an FP causes those folks to seek out other attractions they've never really enjoyed before.

Case in point - I rode Carousel of Progress more times last month than I had in 40+ years. That's not a joke. But I did because I didn't want to wait in the other much longer lines and didn't feel like just standing around.

Same was true in Epcot - did Ellen (well, not literally) multiple times because even Spaceship Earth had ridiculous wait times. And we didn't want to just stand around.

And in HS? We rode Star Tours over and over because that attraction has such a high capacity it eats people and the line was never much longer than 15 minutes. But everything else was much longer and we....well, you know.

 

[DisneyKidds]

So between Christmas and New Years in the parks after dinner, which attractions were you able to walk on without FP?

Depends on the park, but here goes.....

First evening we were at Epcot. FP+'d Soarin', SE, MS. Walked on American Adventure and Mexico boat ride. Had to skip Mexico early in the evening due to line, was back later when there was no line. We got seats last minute for the Candlelight Processional. We didn't focus on attractions this day, as we weren't in the park until about 4. By the time we used our 3 FP+ and did those three other attractions it was getting close to time for our Illuminations Dessert Party (first time we ever did that). Between a little shopping and a drink here or there, there wasn't a lot of time to do other rides, but by 8:30 we could walked into any of the World Showcase movies, or hit up Seas, Imagination, EO, Ellen with marginal waits. I suggested them, but they aren't the greatest repeat attractions, and for a lot of people Epcot isn't about the attractions. Storytellers, eating, shopping, drinking.....that's what many like this time of year, including us. We didn't 'do that many attractions' as there aren't that many to do. No, we didn't ride TT this day, but that never happened without a long standby in the afternoon evening under FP-, not when it's busy. We did ride Soarin' which was only possible because of FP+.

Second night isn't going to knock your socks of with the raw number of attractions, as we did a relative flyby at DHS with our friends. Arrived at 5:45 to use TSMM FP+ good from 5-6, went right to Star Tours FP+ good from 6-7, did the Osborne Lights until it was time for our 7-8 ToT FP+. Again, enjoyed a couple drinks (bartender at HBD couldn't quite comprehend double Beam on the rocks, like it needs to be mixed), hit the dance party by the Hat for a few while we munched roasted pecans, then we high tailed it over to Epcot for Fish and Chips and Illuminations. Again, not a huge attraction count, but not because of FP+. By the time we left there were attractions like Muppets that didn't have long lines. Again, rides like TSMM and ToT wouldn't have happened without FP+. No down time, and no waiting in lines.

Third night was Epcot again, same deal as previous Epcot night, but FP+ TT instead of Soarin', and we used CP dinner package.

December 30 we used FP+ in the MK from 5 to 8:30 with Wishes in between. After that there was Dole Whip somewhere in there, dinner at Casey's, a 15 minute wait or so for Small World, hit up Philharmagic, DJ dance parties and other such NYE Eve revelry. Shopping in vain for Pandora charms. Before we know it, it's fireworks time to 'ring in' the not New Year. After the fireworks we do Laugh Floor, walk on TTA (actually had a line earlier), hit Buzz 2x with a 5 minute wait, ride the Teacups with no wait. At 1:30 we decide to leave, but most rides were walk on with the park open until 3am. A 5 pm park arrival on arguably the third busiest day of the year after Christmas and New Years. About 7 hours in the park, 11 rides and attractions, two great fireworks displays, DJs and dancing. Quite a bit better than 3 FP+ and long lines for everything else for the day. This after we did TSMM, RnR, ToT and Star Tours before we checked out of the BC and went to the GF, where we had a sit down breakfast, took a nap and had a dip in the pool/hot tub.

You'll forgive me if I leave NYE at Epcot out of the attraction counting. Not a typical night!

Our last night on January 1 was in the MK again. After sleeping in after NYE and breakfast at Park Fare and some resort pool/hot tub time, we head over to the MK a little after 3:00. Use our FP+ from 3:30 to 6:30, four rides in all given how we split them up. Did Little Mermaid with a 10 minute wait, shopped, picked up a 4th FP+ for Thunder Mountain later that night and left for dinner at 6:30. 3 hours, 5 attractions, our first LeFou's Brew, and more fruitless Pandora shopping. Back to the MK about 10:00, when we use our 4th FP for Thunder, then proceed to do Teacups, Barnstormer x2, Dumbo, Jingle Cruise, and Buzz x2, a with no SB line, before the park closes at 1:00. 3 hours, 8 attractions, bringing the count for the afternoon/evening to 13 attractions in 6 hours of park time. Again, quite a bit better than 3 attractions and long lines for everything else. Has we not slept in and rope dropped the park I bet we could have pushed the attraction count to 20 in 9 hours, and the park was packed!

Pick away!

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

OMG, THIS!!

We felt exactly the same way! And I just couldn't get my head around why it felt so different, but it definitely did. Sometimes, my Mom and I actually admitted we were bored waiting for our rides. We waited for legacy FP times, so why the difference? What's wrong with me?!?!?!?

We went last April before the extra FP+ were available after you used your three. It was three and done. Looking forward to getting the opportunity for more this time around.

I have seen a comment like this a few times in other threads and have always been confused by it as well. Regardless if you reserved a 2:00 PM FP via MyMagic 2 months in advance or if you pulled a 2:00 PM FP from a paper FP machine at noon the end result is you still have a 2:00 PM reservation.

You would think so, but I felt this way too. I think it's because of the way we tour and because we usually go in the fall. With moderate crowds, I could go to land/area and was usually be able to grab a fast pass for 45-90 minutes later. Then we would experience some other attractions in that area until our FP window opened. Now I have to guess which area of the park I am going to be in when I make my FP+ reservations. Some FP are easy to switch, but some are not.

SB lines are longer because more people are using FastPass. The same thing would have happened for headline attractions under legacy FP, if FP usage was as high as it is today.

True, but they added FP+ to high capacity attractions that functioned very well without FP. In regards to POTC, they dedicated a whole line to FP+, which kept it from loading as efficently. Sometimes they would have a CM at a different merge point to help even out crowds, so I am hoping they are improving that process.

 

[norybell]

One unanticipated effect FP+ had on our traveling party was to shift our focus almost completely onto the headliners. Which seems strange, considering that there were some legacy FP trips where we'd ride headliners over and over again...yet even those trips didn't feel so singleminded (and this is despite traveling with a toddler who couldn't ride the headliners, and multiple adults who've ridden most of them enough times to not really care anymore).

Forgive me in advance for trying to unpack this here, because I'm not sure myself why it happened.

We've always done a mix of headliners and "classic" rides (PoTC, HM, IASW, etc.) on our trips...as a matter of fact we probably prefer the dark rides to the fast ones overall. But these FP+ trips, we spent too much time worrying we'd miss our only line-free opportunities for the headliners, too much time checking our watches. So, somehow, much more of the trip became about we-can't-miss-Test-Track! than about let's-hit-Test-Track-if-it-works-out. Riding The Seas became something to do while killing time between FP+ appointments, rather than something to do in of itself. Does that make any sense at all?

We also had essentially two different schedules to keep track of and to try to overlap when possible -- the toddler FP plan and the thrill ride FP plan. Things became even more annoying when we'd find ourselves waiting for an FP window that didn't even apply to us (like, we're ready to go eat lunch, but we have to wait for your aunts' TT FP window to open so they can eat with us after they ride, since their FP tomorrow is for Soarin'...). Whereas before our thrill ride riders could wait until a more convenient moment to use their FPs. I'm not sure how to remedy this. I'd like to say I'll just plan a single FP schedule next trip for the entire family, but with mixed ages and interests, how would that ever work?

Anyway, long story short, this, to me, is the biggest con of FP+: the loss of the easy fluidity my family toured with using legacy FPs during slow seasons. I'd like to think WDW will find a way to bring some of it back with FP+ tweaking, but I think that's wishful thinking, and probably those days are just over. And on the overscheduled, overcrowded WDW trips of my future, I'm sure I will look back at the legacy FP days as I do at the laid-back MK of the late-'70s, with a deep sense of nostalgia and a tiny sense of loss.

You know, now that I think about it, maybe for our next trip I'll plan FPs for 10-1 (with little kids we don't do much evening touring anymore) with the assumption that, other than maybe one absolute must-do at 11:00, we won't use them unless they're convenient in that particular moment. Then we'll tour old school RD style, like we did between 1976-2001. It'll be an experiment.

 

[erc]

How many more are using FP+ ?

I would counter that when WDW claims "twice as many guests now use FP", it's because twice as many attractions are part of the resource pool and everyone is initially required to choose 3.

This article claims 50% more usage:


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/feature...way-to-other-disney-parks-20150108-story.html


And this thread from last Oct. says basically the same thing with usage quoted at 75% up from less than 50% before FP+:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3345016

 

[Laketravis]

This article claims 50% more usage:


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/feature...way-to-other-disney-parks-20150108-story.html


And this thread from last Oct. says basically the same thing with usage quoted at 75% up from less than 50% before FP+:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3345016

Check out how this math works:

10 out of 20 rides offer FP. Guests use FP on those 10 rides. Then, FP is added to 5 more rides. Now guests use FP on 15 out of 20 rides.

FP usage has gone up from 50% to 75%.

Math is fun.