Just Back... FP+ Pros & Cons

[erc]

Check out how this math works:

10 out of 20 rides offer FP. Guests use FP on those 10 rides. Then, FP is added to 5 more rides. Now guests use FP on 15 out of 20 rides.

FP usage has gone up from 50% to 75%.

Math is fun.

Never open to possible evidence contrary to accepted beliefs. I'm guessing you have never spent your life in the pursuit of science. Am I right?

It really depends on what they consider usage. Percentage of guests on a given day who have utilized at least one FastPass reservation? Or total number of FastPass reservations per day. You assume the latter.

 

[MickeyOCD]

Check out how this math works: 10 out of 20 rides offer FP. Guests use FP on those 10 rides. Then, FP is added to 5 more rides. Now guests use FP on 15 out of 20 rides. FP usage has gone up from 50% to 75%. Math is fun.

You crack me up!
Yes Math is fun. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't/won't get it.

 

[Laketravis]

It really depends on what they consider usage.

Exactly my point. And if you don't believe that a marketing department is going to go beyond "science" in order to make the claim they believe would best support a position, then my bet is you have never spent your life in the pursuit of corporate advertising and marketing. Am I right?

I think so, because I think you are an absolute thinker (techy), not an abstract thinker (artist). And the absolute thinker would tend to apply common convention (usage is up so more guests must be using it) while the abstract thinker would use uncommon convention (more rides now offer FP so usage is up).

Abstract thinkers tend to work in marketing. Marketing tends to use uncommon convention to support a claim.

 

[Mikie]

Exactly my point. And if you don't believe that a marketing department is going to go beyond "science" in order to make the claim they believe would best support a position, then my bet is you have never spent your life in the pursuit of corporate advertising and marketing. Am I right?

I think so, because I think you are an absolute thinker (techy), not an abstract thinker (artist). And the absolute thinker would tend to apply common convention (usage is up so more guests must be using it) while the abstract thinker would use uncommon convention (more rides now offer FP so usage is up).

Abstract thinkers tend to work in marketing. Marketing tends to use uncommon convention to support a claim.

I may have to post this on my fridge! By training, I am an accountant and my husband, though a scientist, now works in marketing. This is by far the most polite way I've seen to point out to him that he just plain makes crap up!!

 

[Laketravis]

I may have to post this on my fridge! By training, I am an accountant and my husband, though a scientist, now works in marketing. This is by far the most polite way I've seen to point out to him that he just plain makes crap up!!

 

[aviva5675]

I havent been in a while so am wrapping my head about fp+. Since I am having problems linking my old tickets to my account I cant even try to make ressies with less than a month to go. This new way seems wildly complicated, limiting, and difficult. We are staying mostly at US to see HP, but want to do a day at MK to see the new stuff. I guess we will do rd and hope for the best. Im a huge vacation planner but this method seems ridiculous.

 

[kaceyo]

But we just got back from Universal and I must say I HATED their Express Pass! (From what I've read on these boards, I must be the only one in the world who does not love it, I know...)
At Universal, it seemed we were always waiting in line, even with EP (which came with our hotel stay). Maybe we were just using the wrong strategy, but I'm not sure what else to do there. Since EP is useless on the rides that actually have the longest lines, you've got no choice but rope drop SB. We waited 45 min and 20 min for Gringotts during Early Entry (for which we had to get up at 5:30 am Central Time ), and also explored HP world during the mornings since that was the only time you could breathe in there. By the time we got to the other rides at mid-morning, most had waits of 20-30 min or more. The actual wait time with EP was really unpredictable - one time (on Spidey) SB was listed at 20 min, and we actually waited 20 min in the Express line (basically everyone in line had express!), while another time it said SB was 30 and we waited 10. You just never knew what you were in for - but there was almost always a wait even with express.
...

THIS was so true for us too. I booked an overnight stay in August at the Royal Pacific for $250 mostly because of the express pass (we left our off site hotel room empty). I was so disappointed with the express pass which had much longer lines than the single rider option. We did a few experiments to compare and the single rider lines were almost always less than 5 mins whereas the express pass was 10-20 mins. On ET, I went in the regular line and my mom went in the express line and I beat her on the ride.... If you can use the single rider line, you don't need express pass.

 

[SmithSmith]

But we just got back from Universal and I must say I HATED their Express Pass! (From what I've read on these boards, I must be the only one in the world who does not love it, I know...) I have never waited in so many lines in my life. At Disney, our strategy was this: go early and ride mid-level rides SB during the first two hours. No lines. At mid-day, use a couple FP on headliners (no waits), see a show, and eat lunch. Skedaddle by 1:00 or 2:00 for a relaxing swim/break at hotel. Return in early evening to use additional headliner FP (no wait) and eat dinner. Late evening ride more low/mid-level rides, which would by then be walk-ons. This worked really well for us (at low crowd times) - we walked on to almost everything with no wait at all, and NEVER waited in line more than 10-15 minutes, that only on very rare occasions (Soarin' for example, where there is a bit of a wait even with FP). Granted, we are the type of people who like to do a variety of things throughout the day, not just ride three headliners over and over. This strategy worked really well for us.

At Universal, by contrast, it seemed we were always waiting in line, even with EP (which came with our hotel stay). Maybe we were just using the wrong strategy, but I'm not sure what else to do there. Since EP is useless on the rides that actually have the longest lines, you've got no choice but rope drop SB. We waited 45 min and 20 min for Gringotts during Early Entry (for which we had to get up at 5:30 am Central Time ), and also explored HP world during the mornings since that was the only time you could breathe in there. By the time we got to the other rides at mid-morning, most had waits of 20-30 min or more. The actual wait time with EP was really unpredictable - one time (on Spidey) SB was listed at 20 min, and we actually waited 20 min in the Express line (basically everyone in line had express!), while another time it said SB was 30 and we waited 10. You just never knew what you were in for - but there was almost always a wait even with express.

Also, crowds didn't seem to thin out at all during the evening there, unlike at Disney, so evening touring was not much help. Possibly because Uni closes so early (8:00 during our trip - one day US even closed at 6:00!), so everybody sticks it out till the very end. Maybe also due to the older clientele there that stays up later.

It WAS nice to not have to schedule rides - I appreciated the flexibility and spontaneity of EP. But I personally would take any kind of FP over EP, since I am such a line wimp! I know I am probably the only one on here who thinks like that...

THIS was so true for us too. I booked an overnight stay in August at the Royal Pacific for $250 mostly because of the express pass (we left our off site hotel room empty). I was so disappointed with the express pass which had much longer lines than the single rider option. We did a few experiments to compare and the single rider lines were almost always less than 5 mins whereas the express pass was 10-20 mins. On ET, I went in the regular line and my mom went in the express line and I beat her on the ride.... If you can use the single rider line, you don't need express pass.

Wow! People disliking Express Pass?! Never thought I'd see the day...

 

[erc]

then my bet is you have never spent your life in the pursuit of corporate advertising and marketing. Am I right?

Ha, yes. Software engineer for 22 years. I'm really just fascinated by the data. Just give me the data.

 

[Laketravis]

Ha, yes. Software engineer for 22 years. I'm really just fascinated by the data. Just give me the data.

I knew it! LOL!

 

[erc]

For anyone interested there is a good chapter on this stuff in the 2015 "Unofficial Guide". I think it was published in August 2014 but they list the eight or so rides that have seen average SB wait times increase since January 2014 even after accounting for increased park attendance. I think Dinosaur was the biggest increase at 12 minutes I believe followed by POTC at 10, and their theory on Dinosaur was it was near the top alphabetically when picking FP+ attractions? It's a good read, because their approach is not as "Disney can do no wrong", but more like "okay, for better or for worse, this is the new system, let's figure it out."

 

[wisblue]

For anyone interested there is a good chapter on this stuff in the 2015 "Unofficial Guide". I think it was published in August 2014 but they list the eight or so rides that have seen average SB wait times increase since January 2014 even after accounting for increased park attendance. I think Dinosaur was the biggest increase at 12 minutes I believe followed by POTC at 10, and their theory on Dinosaur was it was near the top alphabetically when picking FP+ attractions? It's a good read, because their approach is not as "Disney can do no wrong", but more like "okay, for better or for worse, this is the new system, let's figure it out."

I suspect that this item was based on the same study as the one that appeared on their Touring Plans website. I posted a link to that on another thread yesterday.

 

[Laketravis]

I suspect that this item was based on the same study as the one that appeared on their Touring Plans website. I posted a link to that on another thread yesterday.

And as I pointed out in response to that post:

- The data was compiled using wait times from February 1 – June 19, a period of time somewhat unlike the rest of the year, and then only from 10 AM – 5 PM for each of those days.

- The comparison to FP- for MK is pre-Fantasy Land expansion.

Essentially, if one is curious as to the impact of FP+ on wait times in the early morning and later in the evenings and/or over several crowded periods and holidays, this analysis won't provide any relevant information.

 

[erc]

I'm guessing that they are still gathering data and will update accordingly.

http://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/fastpass

Is this still the case (from that article):

The new computer system is taking around 15 to 30 seconds per person, to read the band, look up the reservation, and do the validation. And every member of a family goes through the validation. This isn’t an issue when guests returns are spread somewhat evenly throughout the day, but it stops the line dead when a group of people arrive at once. The result has been occasional waits of up to 30 minutes to redeem a FastPass+ reservation, sometimes longer than the standby wait for the same ride.

 

[Laketravis]

I'm guessing that they are still gathering data and will update accordingly.

http://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/fastpass

Is this still the case (from that article):

There were certainly latency issues in the early stages (read my trip report from 2013) but I definitely noticed an improvement last month with much quicker response at the FP+ readers.

The admission queues can still be slow and result in bottlenecks but that's not an experience one tends to encounter multiple times a day.

 

[RebeccaRabbit]

Wow! People disliking Express Pass?! Never thought I'd see the day...

I don't dislike Express Pass per se - in theory it sounds great. What I dislike is standing in line. And the fact was that on this particular visit, we stood in line WAY more with EP than we ever had at Disney with FP (either + or -). At Uni we had to stand in line for nearly every ride, sometimes for very long times. Maybe this was "user error" - this our first trip to Uni, so maybe we just don't know how to work their system like we do Disney's, I don't know. But the fact was we wasted huge amounts of time being in line all the time, which was just no fun.

 

[Laketravis]

I don't dislike Express Pass per se - in theory it sounds great. What I dislike is standing in line. And the fact was that on this particular visit, we stood in line WAY more with EP than we ever had at Disney with FP (either + or -). At Uni we had to stand in line for nearly every ride, sometimes for very long times. Maybe this was "user error" - this our first trip to Uni, so maybe we just don't know how to work their system like we do Disney's, I don't know. But the fact was we wasted huge amounts of time being in line all the time, which was just no fun.

I don't think it was human error at all. That "Express Pass" system doesn't make any promises about being front of the line or zero wait, but it does offer a substantial advantage over the much longer SB times.

We used it a couple of weeks ago for the first time, and like you I found myself standing in some "Express" lines that took 10 or 15 minutes to get thru. But the SB time was also 75-100 minutes at the same time, and I found that we were able to experience many more attractions in the same amount of time than we were able to at WDW a few weeks before because the Express Pass is good for an unlimited number of times on most attractions with no advance reservation required.

Would I have paid extra for it if I wasn't staying at a USO resort? No. But then, I don't pay extra for FlashPass at Six Flags nor would I pay extra for FP at WDW is they started to charge for it.

 

[goodgodmrsmolly]

I don't think it was human error at all. That "Express Pass" system doesn't make any promises about being front of the line or zero wait, but it does offer a substantial advantage over the much longer SB times.

We used it a couple of weeks ago for the first time, and like you I found myself standing in some "Express" lines that took 10 or 15 minutes to get thru. But the SB time was also 75-100 minutes at the same time, and I found that we were able to experience many more attractions in the same amount of time than we were able to at WDW a few weeks before because the Express Pass is good for an unlimited number of times on most attractions with no advance reservation required.

I rarely wait less than 15 min in FP+ line at Disney. At US, the front of the express pass is often right up to the ride. In may Disney rides you merge with the regular line. Like BTMR, you only get as far as the tunnel down before merging with the regular line. And that is after for wait 5 minutes just to scan (for the first time) your MB. I have only used the EP at Universal once, but I found the wait times comparable to less than FP+ at Disney.

 

[SmithSmith]

I don't dislike Express Pass per se - in theory it sounds great. What I dislike is standing in line. And the fact was that on this particular visit, we stood in line WAY more with EP than we ever had at Disney with FP (either + or -). At Uni we had to stand in line for nearly every ride, sometimes for very long times. Maybe this was "user error" - this our first trip to Uni, so maybe we just don't know how to work their system like we do Disney's, I don't know. But the fact was we wasted huge amounts of time being in line all the time, which was just no fun.

Now I'm confused... This is what you said:

But we just got back from Universal and I must say I HATED their Express Pass! (From what I've read on these boards, I must be the only one in the world who does not love it, I know...)
At Universal, it seemed we were always waiting in line, even with EP (which came with our hotel stay). Maybe we were just using the wrong strategy, but I'm not sure what else to do there. Since EP is useless on the rides that actually have the longest lines, you've got no choice but rope drop SB. We waited 45 min and 20 min for Gringotts during Early Entry (for which we had to get up at 5:30 am Central Time ), and also explored HP world during the mornings since that was the only time you could breathe in there. By the time we got to the other rides at mid-morning, most had waits of 20-30 min or more. The actual wait time with EP was really unpredictable - one time (on Spidey) SB was listed at 20 min, and we actually waited 20 min in the Express line (basically everyone in line had express!), while another time it said SB was 30 and we waited 10. You just never knew what you were in for - but there was almost always a wait even with express.

What am I missing? How can someone not dislike something and hate something at the same time?

 

[ericar]

In the future we will enter the park and face a line that will take us from ride to ride like a bunch of cattle. Free will is going to be a thing of the past.