just back/ about smoking

[jmminarik]

Originally posted by paults
is everyone done. I started this thread as information on where they are putting the smoking rooms at BWV as I was told by a CM last week. Sorry it turned into a debate on smoking.

Well, smoking is probably the one topic more than any that will kick off a religious jihad...mainly by the passionate anti-smokers and the few smokers who are sick of being persecuted. I personally like the "my resort's better than yours debates" because at least that is a relatively harmless thing based on people's opinions and not a topic (ETS) that is mostly junk science.

But thanks for trying to be helpful!

-Joe

 

[BWVDee]

You may think all of us non-smokers are rude and considerate only for the fact you could care less what we think. When you came across these anti-smoking fanactics did you have cigerette in your hand and the smoke was blowing right in their face? Yes, it is your right to smoke, but when you do you are effecting other peoples lives when you choose to do so. The sad part about it most smokers don't seem to realize that or could care less. That is the problem. When I don't smoke I have know effect on your life what so ever. I think more smokers should be more considerate plain and simple. And if you and your freinds are the considerate ones that what I have said doesn't really apply to you.

Where in any of my posts did I ever state that I was a smoker???
I am sorry, but I think that many times people take things to the extreme and exaggerate somewhat, and comments on many smoking thread are prefect examples.
I have asthma and have never had a problem being in any WDW room. I have had asthma attacks in FL but it is usually the very high humidity that completely sets me off. I am not saying that for someone with breathing related problems, that being in the same contained room with someone smoking is not a problem for asthmatics, it most certainly is. However to go to some of the extremes that I have read on this board is many times taking it way over the top, imo as an asthmatic.
Also in reference to the post that said her children were bothered by the smoke when they were on the balcony, etc. Smoking is completely allowed on ALL WDW resort balconies. I spend a lot of time on all of our WDW resort balconies and I can honestly say most times we are the only ones within sight on our balcony. Point I am trying to make is if your children are on the balcony and are disturbed by smoke that is coming from a villa balcony that is over, near etc your balcony; just wait a short time and most likely there will be no one in sight the next time you go out on your balcony-- so you can enjoy it to the fullest. Just as many times guests in villas near you, may very well postpone their use of their balcony for a while due to the sounds of screaming & crying children, or fighting neighbors, etc.
Regardless of whether we use our balcony or villa for smoking or not, is not the point. Smoking on all WDW balconies is permitted and there are smoking villas in all DVC resorts. Been that way since we all signed on the Mickey heads and palm trees, you accepted it then--why now the change? To say that your family or children have any more right or entitlement to your enjoyment of your "DVC home" then anyother DVC member is not excatly what I would call considerate. Matter of fact, I call it down right rude and way off base. Hello, the world does not revolve around you! We must co habit in the closer than normal living conditions in a hotel, and as long as whatever the people are doing is legal and allowed by the establishment, we ALL have to co exist!

 

[Chuck S]

OKAY, guys and gals is everyone done

Apparently not

 

[tinkerbee]

I think the anger from smokers towards nonsmokers should be directed at the companies that sold you something knowingly that it was harmful and addictive. We just want to keep ourselves and our families safe.

I think that the only real anger is that smokers are treated as second class citizens from non smokers. Yes it is smokers choice to smoke but if you ask many smokers if they want to quit they would say yes in a second. It is an addiction that if VERY hard to quit. I don't know anyone who smokes that goes around blowing smoke in peoples faces of non smokers. And as for the companies what about alchohol? That is addictive and harms ALOT of people but many don't think much about getting drunk and harming people because I know of alot more people being damaged or killed by drinking (8) than I do smoking (0).

I wish smoking rooms were gauranteed. This would benefit the smokers and the non-smokers.

I agree but I think no non smoker will be happy until the whole place is non smoking. Because from what I'm getting from this they can't even walk down a hall with out smelling it. What I
would like to know is if people walk around with masks all day? Around where I live they would need one because of the factorys and I live near a great lake. And if the factory smell doesn't get ya the cow PooP smell will.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by 3DisneyNUTS
Oh Gail I didn't even know you were a smoker but I guess that is why you defend it so much. Continue to do so if you want I cannot tell you to stop smoking but I can try to assure that my non smoking family is not subjected to it from second hand or affected rooms. A typical defense for anything is to divert the subject to something else like driving or pollution. An individual is in direct control to chose to smoke or not, it is that simple it is not a necessity.

Ignorance is why smoking was not a "target" in the past. Now with the knowledge that thousands of people are killed each year including people who don't smoke, I think it is a right we have also not to be affected by it. What right does a smoker have to put my family at risk even if it is a minute risk? What right does a smoker have to put employees at risk even if it is minute? IMO none.

Dvc is considered "homes" to alot of people. Just as I would expect you not to smoke in my full time home why would it be ok for you to smoke in my vacation home when there is an undeniable risk to my family. I don't think smoking should be totally banned on the entire property just inside where there is a chance it would pose a risk to my family.

I would not smoke in your home and I would not smoke in a non smoking unit at Disney. Hence the question, how does my smoking in a smoking designated vacation home affect you?

People have choices also. They can chose not to work where there is smoke, they can chose not to eat where there is smoke ( it is, btw, on of my choices and I do not sit in smoking areas of a restaurant). I do not put your famiily at risk, you put your family at risk by going places that might place them in that risk. Knowing full well that Disney allows smoking makes it your choice to go there or not.

why would it be ok for you to tell me that I cannot do something in my home? Why, then would it be ok for you to tell me I could not do something in my vacation home? This coin does have two sides.

Smoking is a choice and I chose to smoke. Simple, isn't it? Could I quit, I really don't know, I tried about a year ago and became a mad woman. Smoking, like most addictions to drugs, keeps me calm.
A typical offense is to blame everyone that does not conform to what you think is appropriate. You make the choice to go somewhere, accept that what you don't like will be there. Most people do.
Thousands are killed each year by all sorts of means. Shall we ban them all?
I am not deflecting this topic by bringing up other ways we are affected. I am bringing up the stupidity of the government in this issue. It is, indeed, a band aid approach. There are far worse things out there, but, smoking is the PC cause de jour. IMHO, the politicians have little regard for the intelligence of the average human being. We had the brains to elect them, but, obviously not the brains to avoid things we consider hazardous.
It should be up to the individual business owner and the employees to set the rules for their establishment.
I also do not set much faith in radical articles, such as the ones you linked. But, that goes for both sides of this issue. I have no faith in the radical pro smokers either. To get a point across, pro or con, people use skewed facts to back up their, normally, vacant arguements.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by todsue99
Ok...OK...I must get in on this one. It looks like a nice heated topic.

Gail, I am sorry but most of these comments or going to be related to you. Only because you are pretty much the only one in this topic that really smokes, not because of you personally. So let me say right now.....I am Sorry.

First off let me just that I do not have a problem with DVC having smoking rooms, but even though (in you words) there are only 5% of smoking rooms they can't guarantee me a non smoking room. If this is the case then maybe they should cut down on the 5%, because obviously there are not many smokers that own DVC. I would just like the to know I can get a non-smoking room. I do not want to have a smoking room and sit on the couch and have my clothes smell like smoke when I get up. And if you think they don't you are pretty naive about the whole smoking thing.

For the person who said that they have never walked down a hall of smoking rooms and has never smelled smoke must have a cold all the time. Or is just a smoker and doesn't notice it, because trust me if you don't smoke I bet you smell it everytime.

Gail, the biggest problem with smokers in my opinion is they feel it is their right to smoke if they want to and are so inconsiderate to people who don't. Yes the law alllows them to smoke, but it also allows me not to and I don't need to watch or smell you why you do. Now don't get me wrong Gail I do not know you personally so I do not know if you fit in this catergory or not, but most of the smokers I know are just that way.

Now when I go into a bar or casino or what ever I know the majority of people smoke and I understand that and I fully expect to walk out of there smelling like some foul _______ (fill in the blank). Now that is my choice and trust me the first thing I do when I get home is take a shower. However as stated above smokers does not seem to be the majority at Disney or DVC. Food for thought.

Lets face it smoke from smoking gets everwhere and people smell when they are around smoke. Just try and be more considerate to us non-smokers. Please.

Sorry. Flame back if you must Gail, but I am sorry.

Don't apologise, you are certainly welcome to your opinion, and since you stated it so nicely, I cannot flame you.

I would, however, like to state what I do do.
I smoke only in designated areas, I smoke only in designated units, I don't smoke around children, I also think MK should be totally smoke free, too many little ones there and a lit cigarette is very dangerous to them.
I don't sit in smoking sections of restaurants.
I can smell smoke and since I rarely get colds or health problems, my sense of smell is quite acute.
Disney does a wonderful job of keeping places clean, but, I am sure that some smoke smell lingers. I am not that naive and I spend a huge amount of time keeping my house clean and my person equally clean.
I feel that might right to smoke ends at the non smokers nose and I do not smoke around someone that does not like it, hence the only smoking where it is allowed.
I also shower when I get home from the casino, I don't like the smell of it either and there is a lot of it at the casino. As an aside, this often amuses me. You have a long line of blackjack tables, and it goes something like this: smoking table, smoking table, add three or 4 more smoking tables, then, non smoking, then smoking and so on. what, pray tell is the point of that? you are no more than 12" away from smoke. I like the non smoking casinos idea and really resent it when a non smoker is at a table I am sitting at and complains that there is smoke there. Hello, there is an entire casino put aside for non smokers and non smoking tables along this aisle. What is your silly a** problem?
That is the only time, btw, that I become just a touch unruly.
I do, however, always ask before I light up. And, if someone objects that has been at that table before me, then I respect that. However, if I am sitting there and someone has a problem, well, then that is their problem.
I don't know how to be more considerate than I am with my smoking habits (except for the casino part). I do try to be considerate to others in all ways. I would hope that you would appreciate that.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by Nick@ VB+OKW

Remember what I said..................."When all WDW resorts become non-smoking" you won't have any of these problems.

Remember this is Florida

not Alaska

.........smokers

can take a few steps

and smoke outside(not on balcony either) when all of WDW resorts go to

Why should anyone have to step out of their rooms at all? Smokers do pay for their rooms, they have every right to enjoy them and smoke if they wish, assuming they are in smoking rooms.
Nick, keep dreaming, it will not happen.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

When I don't smoke I have know effect on your life what so ever. I think more smokers should be more considerate plain and simple. And if you and your freinds are the considerate ones that what I have said doesn't really apply to you.

You do if you wear certain perfumes and colognes. That causes me great distress, I cannot breath. Of course, I have the brains to know this, make my choices and move if it bothers me.

 

[Nick@ VB+OKW]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Nick, keep dreaming, it will not happen.

Time will tell Gail.

 

[mikayla'sMom]

I just have to put my 2 cents in. I am a smoker. I would like to quit, and hope eventually I will. I do not like to be in heavy smoke areas.

I take offense to the statement that smokers are all inconsiderate. That being said...I also need to have a place to smoke.

My husband has had a history of heart problems and I have a 4 year old daughter. I do not smoke in my house. I therefore can not request a smoking room. I do smoke on the balcony and have been told this is what I need to do. I DO keep the door shut. I am very aware of the horrible smell and discomfort to others. Both sides have valid points. I believe that you should NEVER smoke IN a non-smoking room. I am a smoker and can't stand the smell of the rooms. What is the difference between smoking on a path alongside a resort and smoking on a balcony? This has the same effect. I don't think I could bother people too much, since I do not spend that much time in my room anyway. I wish the govermnent would make smoking illegal! I agree that there should be no smoking in restarants. When there is a place to smoke in a building, I generally smoke outside anyway. I do this for others comfort. I agree with what alot of the non-smokers are saying. Reality is smoking is legal and as long as it remains that way we should be able to smoke outside.

Sorry, I just felt I had to input.

 

[Pootle]

I am not a militant anti-smoker but I would like to reply to mikayla'sMom about smoking on balconies. It has happened to me quite a few times at DVC resorts and it is irritating to say the least. You go out for a quiet early morning cup of coffee - bliss - and then up it wafts, stinky smoke. No amount of perfume, hairspray or whatever would drift up a couple of floors in the way that cigarette smoke does

My solution has been to think 'life is too short to get upset about such a minor issue' and to go inside and ignore it. Smoking areas in parks I approve of - it is easy to avoid those.

 

[todsue99]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
I smoke only in designated areas, I smoke only in designated units, I don't smoke around children, I also think MK should be totally smoke free, too many little ones there and a lit cigarette is very dangerous to them.

I feel that might right to smoke ends at the non smokers nose and I do not smoke around someone that does not like it, hence the only smoking where it is allowed.

Gail, Thank you. I commend you for this and I take back everything I said with your name in it because obviously you are a considerate smoker and I thank you.

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN

I also shower when I get home from the casino, I don't like the smell of it either and there is a lot of it at the casino. As an aside, this often amuses me. You have a long line of blackjack tables, and it goes something like this: smoking table, smoking table, add three or 4 more smoking tables, then, non smoking, then smoking and so on. what, pray tell is the point of that? you are no more than 12" away from smoke. I like the non smoking casinos idea and really resent it when a non smoker is at a table I am sitting at and complains that there is smoke there. Hello, there is an entire casino put aside for non smokers and non smoking tables along this aisle. What is your silly a** problem?
That is the only time, btw, that I become just a touch unruly.
I do, however, always ask before I light up. And, if someone objects that has been at that table before me, then I respect that. However, if I am sitting there and someone has a problem, well, then that is their problem.

I think this is funny also, but I do try and sit at the non-smoking tables. And it doesn't help in the slightest. If someone starts to smoke at a table that I am sitting at I do not say a thing unless the smoke drifts right up in my face. Then I ask if they could hold it away from me, but if they don't I will leave the table. That is their right and choose to leave. Do you ever win?

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN

I don't know how to be more considerate than I am with my smoking habits (except for the casino part). I do try to be considerate to others in all ways. I would hope that you would appreciate that.

I appreciate more than words could ever express. Thank you very much.

 

[todsue99]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
You do if you wear certain perfumes and colognes. That causes me great distress, I cannot breath. Of course, I have the brains to know this, make my choices and move if it bothers me.

Just so you know I do not where any, other than the stinky stuff under my arm. I do not like the smell of most of them either, but it does not effect me like that. I am sorry to hear it bothers you that bad.

 

[todsue99]

Originally posted by jmminarik
Well, smoking is probably the one topic more than any that will kick off a religious jihad...mainly by the passionate anti-smokers and the few smokers who are sick of being persecuted. I personally like the "my resort's better than yours debates" because at least that is a relatively harmless thing based on people's opinions and not a topic (ETS) that is mostly junk science.

But thanks for trying to be helpful!

-Joe

Just for the record I think this is a very sick analogy.

 

[todsue99]

Originally posted by BWVDee
Also in reference to the post that said her children were bothered by the smoke when they were on the balcony, etc. Smoking is completely allowed on ALL WDW resort balconies. I spend a lot of time on all of our WDW resort balconies and I can honestly say most times we are the only ones within sight on our balcony. Point I am trying to make is if your children are on the balcony and are disturbed by smoke that is coming from a villa balcony that is over, near etc your balcony; just wait a short time and most likely there will be no one in sight the next time you go out on your balcony-- so you can enjoy it to the fullest. Just as many times guests in villas near you, may very well postpone their use of their balcony for a while due to the sounds of screaming & crying children, or fighting neighbors, etc.

This is the exact mentallity that makes my point even more. You don't really care if it bothers or effects other people.

 

[todsue99]

Originally posted by mikayla'sMom
I just have to put my 2 cents in. I am a smoker. I would like to quit, and hope eventually I will. I do not like to be in heavy smoke areas.

I take offense to the statement that smokers are all inconsiderate. That being said...I also need to have a place to smoke.

I never said all smokers were inconsiderate and I believe I made a statement that if you were a considerate smoker that what I have said does not pertain to you. I am sorry if I offend it you, because from what I read below you seem to be a considerate smoker and are aware of people around you.

Originally posted by mikayla'sMom

My husband has had a history of heart problems and I have a 4 year old daughter. I do not smoke in my house. I therefore can not request a smoking room. I do smoke on the balcony and have been told this is what I need to do. I DO keep the door shut. I am very aware of the horrible smell and discomfort to others. Both sides have valid points. I believe that you should NEVER smoke IN a non-smoking room. I am a smoker and can't stand the smell of the rooms.

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by 3DisneyNUTS
Actually no the carcinogens get trapped in the fabric,rugs,clothing etc that is why even babies who have parents that smoke (outside the home even) are at higher risk for asthma and sids.

I just do not believe that this can be stated as a fact.

There was a correlational study that found that the children of parents who reported smoking only outside had a higher risk of asthma than did children whose parents did not smoke at all. The threat to the validity of this finding is that it only included parental reports of their recollections. These could be inaccurate because a). parents truly think that they "hardly ever" smoke inside and actually did it more than they thought, or b). parents wanted to give the more socially acceptable answer, and so fudged a bit (yeah, I smoke, but only outside away from the child). The problem is, the recollections of the parents in the study may not perfectly match their actual behavior - they may believe that they are doing better following their good intentions to smoke only outside than they actually are. Further, this was a correlational, retrospective study iirc, and so there is no way that one could draw the sort of causal inference that the post above states ("...that is why...").

Moreover, I do not believe that there has ever been any sort of large scale study that has actually examined the homes of people who only smoke outside in order to determine the levels of "carcinogens" trapped in "fabric, rugs, clothing, etc.," let alone actually linking those levels of "carinogens"trapped in these materials to a higher risk of infant asthma or sids. I mean seriously, think about it.

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by Pootle
I am not a militant anti-smoker but I would like to reply to mikayla'sMom about smoking on balconies. It has happened to me quite a few times at DVC resorts and it is irritating to say the least. You go out for a quiet early morning cup of coffee - bliss - and then up it wafts, stinky smoke. No amount of perfume, hairspray or whatever would drift up a couple of floors in the way that cigarette smoke does

My solution has been to think 'life is too short to get upset about such a minor issue' and to go inside and ignore it. Smoking areas in parks I approve of - it is easy to avoid those.

They might be smoking on the balcony of a smoking room, or simply walking or standing outside the building. I was in a non-smoking room at OKW last week that if someone was smoking a cigar on the golf course I'd surely smell it.

 

[jmminarik]

Originally posted by todsue99
Just for the record I think this is a very sick analogy.

What...the religious war comment? I didn't coin the phrase, these types of passionate "discussions" have been around on the Internet before it was called the Internet...where nothing is ever really solved but people get offended/hurt/angry and sometimes quite one-minded in their opinions.

-joe

 

[todsue99]

Originally posted by jmminarik
What...the religious war comment? I didn't coin the phrase, these types of passionate "discussions" have been around on the Internet before it was called the Internet...where nothing is ever really solved but people get offended/hurt/angry and sometimes quite one-minded in their opinions.

-joe

Yes......

For one I think smoking is very harmful to the people who smoke and the others around them and if that is one minded then I guess I am. I, like others smokers and non do not what their children around smoke and if that is one minded then so be it. I was hoping that maybe some (if any) inconsiderate smokers might read this and maybe think before they just light up. I know there are designated spots for smokers and I think that is great, I avoid the areas no problem. I know that there are smoking rooms and that is fine they are allowed to smoke. I never said that I think it should be band, stop or otherwise. I just wish they had room guarentees and smokers will be a little more watchful when they are smoking. I have also made a point to commend the people who do. So I guess I am one-minded and if I have offended anyone I am sorry it was not the point of what I was trying to say.