Josh Powell killed his sons. Oh, and himself.

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

This 911 call sounds like a Laurel & hardy routine. The dispatcher saying, "I'll have the next available deputy contact you" probably at the same moment in time that two children were being murdered.. .Who knows what the outcome would have been if he would have dispatched the police and fire with ANY kind of urgency?

It would have, more than likely, been the same.

The house didn't blow up 10/20/30 minutes after her call...It was MINUTES! And they wouldn't have gone in there all willy nilly with a man who is basically holding his kids hostage, ESPECIALLY with her smelling the gas.

And...Like I said in a previous post...Bad things happen even WITH emergency services on scene.

 

[crashbb]

It would have, more than likely, been the same.

The house didn't blow up 10/20/30 minutes after her call...It was MINUTES! And they wouldn't have gone in there all willy nilly with a man who is basically holding his kids hostage, ESPECIALLY with her smelling the gas.

And...Like I said in a previous post...Bad things happen even WITH emergency services on scene.

The only possible difference is that more lives might have been lost (emergency services getting within the blast zone).

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

The only possible difference is that more lives might have been lost (emergency services getting within the blast zone).

Exactly...

It's just a sad situation all around.

 

[ilovejack02]

The only possible difference is that more lives might have been lost (emergency services getting within the blast zone).

Right , it was a miracle the Social worker was not at the front door beating on it at that moment , she would have been gone too.

 

[iheartdisney]

It only took three- THREE minutes for the fire dept, to arrive once they were dispatched after six minutes and forty seconds of the 911 dispatcher asking her if she was supervising herself.
The ME knows that the boys were alive long enough to breathe in the smoke.

My mom is a 911 dispatcher, has been for 20 years. I know it is a horrible job. This man was demonstrating pure incompetence!

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

It only took three- THREE minutes for the fire dept, to arrive once they were dispatched after six minutes and forty seconds of the 911 dispatcher asking her if she was supervising herself.
The ME knows that the boys were alive long enough to breathe in the smoke.

My mom is a 911 dispatcher, has been for 20 years. I know it is a horrible job. This man was demonstrating pure incompetence!

It still doesn't matter even if the emergency services arrived in 3 minutes!

They wouldn't have just burst in there and saved the day...As much as we would have wanted them to, that's not how it works.

And I'm sorry...But to the 911 dispatcher, it probably didn't sound like as much as an emergency as say...A car accident, or a heart attack victim. Hindsight is 20/20 they say...

 

[JessicaR]

It still doesn't matter even if the emergency services arrived in 3 minutes!

They wouldn't have just burst in there and saved the day...As much as we would have wanted them to, that's not how it works.

And I'm sorry...But to the 911 dispatcher, it probably didn't sound like as much as an emergency as say...A car accident, or a heart attack victim. Hindsight is 20/20 they say...

Have the audio 911 calls been released? Just curious.

I agree with you, not likely anything was stopping this.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Have the audio 911 calls been released? Just curious.

I agree with you, not likely anything was stopping this.

I believe so...I heard a clip on the news, but I don't have a link or anything.

 

[eliza61]

I believe so...I heard a clip on the news, but I don't have a link or anything.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/josh-powell-explosion-911-tapes-released-15536821

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/josh-powell-explosion-911-tapes-released-15536821

Thanks

 

[JessicaR]

I believe so...I heard a clip on the news, but I don't have a link or anything.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/josh-powell-explosion-911-tapes-released-15536821

Thank you. Although the first call was met with hesitation, I don't believe the outcome would have been any different.

What a monster. Never ever can I understand why innocent children are involved in their maniacal plans. So heartbreaking.

 

[MSLRAC]

Have the audio 911 calls been released? Just curious.

I agree with you, not likely anything was stopping this.

They are saying this morning that it took 911 over 15 minutes to dispatch police because the operator said they have to prioritize calls based on life threatening conditions. Sorry but a father suspected of murdering his wife, that snatches his kids away from a social worker and slams the door in her face, is life threatening in my book. But then it took police over 10 minutes to get there after they were dispatched.

I doubt that it would have changed anything in this case since Powell blew the house but I truly hope that 911 changes their process for the future and takes threats like this to children more seriously than they did in this case.

 

[eliza61]

They are saying this morning that it took 911 over 15 minutes to dispatch police because the operator said they have to prioritize calls based on life threatening conditions. Sorry but a father suspected of murdering his wife, that snatches his kids away from a social worker and slams the door in her face, is life threatening in my book. But then it took police over 10 minutes to get there after they were dispatched. I doubt that it would have changed anything in this case since Powell blew the house but I truly hope that 911 changes their process for the future and takes threats like this to children more seriously than they did in this case.

Remember MSLRAC we are coaching from behind. Prior to this the social worker nor the 911 dispatcher had no evidence that Josh was violent. Slamming the door in some one's face is not necessarily life threatening. It could have simply meant that he hated the supervised visits.

Has Josh been violent to the children before? No he had not and officially he was not even a suspect. He was a "person of interest" from 2 years prior.

Soldiers Sweetie said it before, it would be nice if we could send in the troops based on circumstantial situations but we simply can't do that and truthfully I don't think we want to get into that type of law enforcement.

 

[ElizabethB]

According to the SL Trib this morning: The social worker banged on the door for 10 minutes before calling police. It then took 22 additional minutes for the police to actually arrive.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53473091-78/call-powell-dispatcher-information.html.csp

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

According to the SL Trib this morning: The social worker banged on the door for 10 minutes before calling police. It then took 22 additional minutes for the police to actually arrive.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53473091-78/call-powell-dispatcher-information.html.csp

Even so...I don't think she did anything wrong. I don't think her first thought was that he was going to do what he did. If that had happened to me, I would have banged on the door too like, "WTH???"

There are a lot of things in this case that could have been differently.

ESPECIALLY since we now the outcome...Hindsight really is 20/20 and the people involved here will probably beat themselves up for a long, long time, if not forever over it.

But I still think even if she called immediately and emergency services had arrived just a few minutes later, that the outcome would have been the same. He was hell bent on killing these kids. Even with the cops there I could ABSOLUTELY see him doing it while the police/SWAT...WHOEVER...Organized their thoughts, or even at first sight of them.

 

[fairestoneofall]

Even so...I don't think she did anything wrong. I don't think her first thought was that he was going to do what he did. If that had happened to me, I would have banged on the door too like, "WTH???"

There are a lot of things in this case that could have been differently.

ESPECIALLY since we now the outcome...Hindsight really is 20/20 and the people involved here will probably beat themselves up for a long, long time, if not forever over it.

But I still think even if she called immediately and emergency services had arrived just a few minutes later, that the outcome would have been the same. He was hell bent on killing these kids. Even with the cops there I could ABSOLUTELY see him doing it while the police/SWAT...WHOEVER...Organized their thoughts, or even at first sight of them.

Agreed. Once he had those kids, there really wasn't anything anyone could've done to change the outcome. He was going to kill them and himself regardless. He'd already planned it out. The social worker is lucky that he didn't pull her in to kill her too. Obviously though, she could've fought back, which is something his innocent boys couldn't really do.

The only thing that probably would've saved this situation was if the visitations were at a third location with more than just one social worker. The minute they had evidence that required he get a psycho-sexual evaluation, he should've lost all right to visits in his home. But again, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Agreed. Once he had those kids, there really wasn't anything anyone could've done to change the outcome. He was going to kill them and himself regardless. He'd already planned it out. The social worker is lucky that he didn't pull her in to kill her too. Obviously though, she could've fought back, which is something his innocent boys couldn't really do.

The only thing that probably would've saved this situation was if the visitations were at a third location with more than just one social worker. The minute they had evidence that required he get a psycho-sexual evaluation, he should've lost all right to visits in his home. But again, hindsight is 20/20.

Yes...Visitation should not have been in his home.

Do supervised visits usually take place in a home or in a neutral places, like a McDonalds? My neighbor usually has hers(she is a foster mom) in an outside place.

 

[sunshinehighway]

As far as the social worker banging on the door for 10 minutes, she's probably had people lock her out before. I can't imagine everyone with supervised visitation is thrilled with her being there.

The thing is, how does child services, the 911 operator, the police or the case worker predict that this guy is going to do something so horrific? They can't. They can't start taking away visitation for everyone because one never knows when someone is going to do something completely off the rails. Full swat teams can't be sent out immediately when someone locks a social worker out of their house for a few minutes.

If someone is so desperate they are determined to kill someone, there is nothing that can be done to stop it. They will find a way and it'll be something that seems so obvious later, but is unimaginable beforehand.

I heard an excerpt from a phone interview with the case workers husband. It was heartbreaking.

 

[LisaR]

The social worker placed a call at 12:08 to 9-11. At 12:16, 9-11 began receiving calls from neighbors reporting an explosion.

While it does seem like the 9-11 operator handled the call improperly, the police would have never been able to arrive in the span of 8 minutes.

From what I have interpreted, the social worker was suppose to remain there during the visit. When Powell snatched the kids and locked the door, she called her supervisor and the police. She explained to the police that he won't let her in. She asks what she should do and explains that she is suppose to supervise the visit.

It seems to me like she reacted appropriately. He grabbed the kids and she pounded on the door while calling her supervisor. After that, she called 9-11. She had no clue what Powell was planning.

http://news.yahoo.com/911-log-shows-time-lapse-powell-emergency-call-090453532.html

 

[MSLRAC]

The social worker placed a call at 12:08 to 9-11. At 12:16, 9-11 began receiving calls from neighbors reporting an explosion.

While it does seem like the 9-11 operator handled the call improperly, the police would have never been able to arrive in the span of 8 minutes.

From what I have interpreted, the social worker was suppose to remain there during the visit. When Powell snatched the kids and locked the door, she called her supervisor and the police. She explained to the police that he won't let her in. She asks what she should do and explains that she is suppose to supervise the visit.

It seems to me like she reacted appropriately. He grabbed the kids and she pounded on the door while calling her supervisor. After that, she called 9-11. She had no clue what Powell was planning.

http://news.yahoo.com/911-log-shows-time-lapse-powell-emergency-call-090453532.html

I honestly think that the social worker did all that she could in this case.
I think that it is safe to say that those boys were doomed the moment the father got his hands on them. But I do have an issue with how the 911 operator handled it. I have heard one part where the worker is saying that the house has blown up and the operator just seems like it's no big deal and she'll send someone over when she can. I don't get that...what the heck else is going on in this town that is bigger or worse? A house has blewn up and is actively on fire with 2 young children confirmed to be inside...that's a pretty big deal in my book and deserves immediate attention from everyone available.