Jesus wasn't resurrected

[EltonJohn]

Anti-Christian? Where do you get that he is Anti-Christian?

Perhaps I'm confusing him with another Cameron, and perhaps anti-Christian is too strong of a word, but I highly doubt that he is unbiased.

 

[magicmato]

Perhaps I'm confusing him with another Cameron, and perhaps anti-Christian is too strong of a word, but I highly doubt that he is unbiased.

Um... there hardly is such a thing as un-biased. The religious scholars coming out to speak against this are also biased.

 

[EltonJohn]

Sigh. All right, YOU fly up to heaven and get a DNA sample from God the Son, ok? And while you're up there, swing by Mary's place and get one from her- and ask her if she knows where her ex-husband is hanging out (no in marriage in heaven, remember?) so you can get a sample from Joseph. I'll even give you sterile swabs to use- just PM me. I'll run the DNA tests personally.

Is there a point in your rude and sarcastic post? If you want to blindly accept Cameron's DNA claims then that is your choice, but I certainly won't. The DNA claims are laughable at best.

 

[magicmato]

Is there a point in your rude and sarcastic post? If you want to blindly accept Cameron's DNA claims then that is your choice, but I certainly won't. The DNA claims are laughable at best.

Um... all the DNA confirms is that certain people were or were not related. He has not claimed the DNA confirms who they are.

 

[EltonJohn]

Um... there hardly is such a thing as un-biased. The religious scholars coming out to speak against this are also biased.

Fine, I will re-word my statement. There is a thing called holding your biases in check, otherwise there would not be good judges and juries in this world. Some people hold their biases in check better than others do.

All of this, however; is beside the point. IMO, James Cameron has an obvious bias against Christianity and/or faith in general, and he does not hold his biases in check. IOW, he's a skeptic that doesn't believe that Jesus rose from the dead in the first place and is looking for evidence to fit his pre-conceived beliefs. Besides the fact that he is not a respected scholar in these fields, and doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[EltonJohn]

Um... all the DNA confirms is that certain people were or were not related. He has not claimed the DNA confirms who they are.

Yet, he claims that this prooves that this is the tomb of Jesus and his family? And that he had Mary Magdalene had a son? That's what I got from the TIME article posted above.



Would you please stop making my head hurt today?



Thank you Tag Fairy.

 

[magicmato]

Fine, I will re-word my statement. There is a thing called holding your biases in check, otherwise there would not be good judges and juries in this world. Some people hold their biases in check better than others do.

All of this, however; is beside the point. IMO, James Cameron has an obvious bias against Christianity and/or faith in general, and he does not hold his biases in check. IOW, he's a skeptic that doesn't believe that Jesus rose from the dead in the first place and is looking for evidence to fit his pre-conceived beliefs. Besides the fact that he is not a respected scholar in these fields, and doesn't know what he is talking about.

I see. So presenting an *archeological* find is an issue and goes against Christianity? I hate to say that I disagree. It is interesting and as I said, the bones of Jesus could be in a museum right now, but no one would know. That is like saying that evolution should not be studied because it is just anti-christians trying to fit their pre-conceived beliefs that creationism is false.

Not everything is done in a spirit to "get" christianity and christians and I really wonder why people get so upset. Faith is based on things that cannot be proven. Even of there was a tomb found with neon signs and angels came from the heaven to proclaim that they had found *the* tomb of Jesus Christ, that would hardly turn people's hearts. There would still be huge numbers of people who would proclaim it a hoax and move on.

 

[magicmato]

Yet, he claims that this prooves that this is the tomb of Jesus and his family? And that he had Mary Magdalene had a son? That's what I got from the TIME article posted above.



Would you please stop making my head hurt today?



Thank you Tag Fairy.

No, he claims that it statisticly *could* be that Jesus and Mary, not that it is. Try to not read between the lines.

 

[phillybeth]

Is there a point in your rude and sarcastic post? If you want to blindly accept Cameron's DNA claims then that is your choice, but I certainly won't. The DNA claims are laughable at best.

Have you even READ this thread? That's exactly what many of us, Christian and non-Christian alike, have been saying for over 50 pages.

 

[The_Horned_King]

Christianity 101

Christians believe that, as Messiah, Jesus was anointed as ruler and savior of humanity in general, and hold that Jesus's coming was the fulfilment of messianic prophecies of the Old Testament. The core Christian belief is that, through his death and resurrection, Jesus reconciles mankind to God and thereby brings salvation and the promise of eternal life to those who believe in him. The need for salvation was necessitated by the Fall from Grace which was caused by Adam's original sin of disobedience to the commandment of God.

Christians believe salvation is a gift by unmerited grace of God, who sent Jesus as the savior. Christians believe that through faith in Jesus one can be saved from sin and spiritual death. The crucifixion of Jesus is explained as an atoning sacrifice, which, in the words of the Gospel of John, "takes away the sins of the world". Reception of salvation is related to justification.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity



Both. Paul spoke personally with several of the disciples.

Im not trying to sound rude here(simply questioning), but looking at that and the conversations we have had, here is what I understand. You (and christians in general?) beleieve that if Jesus didn't die on the cross and ressurect that there is no reason to follow his teachings??

Please correct me if I am wrong in thinking that, becasue that is the vibe I am getting.

I'm not saying your wrong I just find that amazing from my own point of view.((I personally think that if he lived, he was a smart man who had good morals and tried to make the world a better place. Which is as good a reason as any for me to follow. That said, I do not peronally agree that he was devine nor does it matter to me if he was or was not. I don't think my god needs to be embodied to change us. I think he can plant thoughts and deeds in us to help us do the right thing and make a difference. Just my opinion))

 

[jimmiej]

Im not trying to sound rude here(simply questioning), but looking at that and the conversations we have had, here is what I understand. You (and christians in general?) beleieve that if Jesus didn't die on the cross and ressurect that there is no reason to follow his teachings??

That is correct. As JoyG said earlier, that's what makes Jesus different from others who were/are considered "great teachers." Jesus gave His life for our salvation, & rising from the dead, He defeated sin's power over us. THAT is the reason Jesus came.

I'm not saying your wrong I just find that amazing from my own point of view.((I personally think that if he lived, he was a smart man who had good morals and tried to make the world a better place. Which is as good a reason as any for me to follow. That said, I do not peronally agree that he was devine nor does it matter to me if he was or was not. I don't think my god needs to be embodied to change us. I think he can plant thoughts and deeds in us to help us do the right thing and make a difference. Just my opinion))

Jesus claimed to be God. If you don't believe He was, then you must think He's a liar. Doesn't sound like good morals to me.

 

[Buckalew11]

So you are honestly telling me his death, burial, and reserection are more important to your religion then your messiah's teachings??? To me that is unbelieveable!

That's what many here are telling you, including me. Jesus taught from scriptures, He was Jewish.
His teaching were *true* and Godly (IMO) and would certainly be noteworthy even if He was not the Messiah (which is also MO). However, that's all He'd be--a great man of God with positive and good teachings. Jesus' sacrifical death, burial and resurrection is what makes Him the Most unique, the Promised one and the Savior of the world. Without it, He'd be just another great man of history.

 

[magicmato]

Nevermind, I misunderstood.

 

[Buckalew11]

So one can only have good morals if they believe that Jesus = God? What an odd thing to say... I would bet that the other 67% of the world would disagree with you. Not to mention that there are plenty of folk who believe in Jesus and yet happen to have less than good morals.

I'm thinking he was speaking of Jesus' morals. Saying that Jesus=God and it not being so would make Jesus a liar.
Anyone can have good morals if they so choose.

 

[KikiFan]

Jesus claimed to be God. If you don't believe He was, then you must think He's a liar. Doesn't sound like good morals to me.

I really don't want to get into a great debate, because I'm quite sure I'm not going to change your mind nor you mine. But I would like to point out to you that your belief that Jesus said he was God is not universal. The fact that someone believes differently does not = Jesus being a liar, nor does it show a lack of morals. It just means they believe differently then you.

 

[ford family]

That's what many here are telling you, including me. Jesus taught from scriptures, He was Jewish.
His teaching were *true* and Godly (IMO) and would certainly be noteworthy even if He was not the Messiah (which is also MO). However, that's all He'd be--a great man of God with positive and good teachings. Jesus' sacrifical death, burial and resurrection is what makes Him the Most unique, the Promised one and the Savior of the world. Without it, He'd be just another great man of history.

But that does not dilute the message.
I don't believe Jesus Christ was the son of God, I don't believe Winston Churchill was either, or Plato, or Rousseau, or FDR and so on. But I do believe that each of them had a message I could learn from, a way of thinking I could adopt to help me live my life in a way that helps my family and helps others.
There is nothing perjorative about being "another great man of history"

ford family

 

[wvrevy]

But that does not dilute the message.
I don't believe Jesus Christ was the son of God, I don't believe Winston Churchill was either, or Plato, or Rousseau, or FDR and so on. But I do believe that each of them had a message I could learn from, a way of thinking I could adopt to help me live my life in a way that helps my family and helps others.
There is nothing perjorative about being "another great man of history"

ford family

Ah, but if he were a mere mortal, Christians would have to actually think about the things he taught, rather than blindly accepting them because of the source. The funny part is, his teachings really wouldn't suffer for the change, as they - for the most part - still hold a high moral standard. But they wouldn't necessarily be infallible, which would force people to actually think for themselves about such things as the nature of morality.

In my opinion, even if Cameron's claims could be 100% verified as accurate, there would be a large number of people that would ignore them, simply because they don't want to give up that crutch of not having to think about things on their own.

 

[jimmiej]

Ah, but if he were a mere mortal, Christians would have to actually think about the things he taught, rather than blindly accepting them because of the source. The funny part is, his teachings really wouldn't suffer for the change, as they - for the most part - still hold a high moral standard. But they wouldn't necessarily be infallible, which would force people to actually think for themselves about such things as the nature of morality.

In my opinion, even if Cameron's claims could be 100% verified as accurate, there would be a large number of people that would ignore them, simply because they don't want to give up that crutch of not having to think about things on their own.

Ah, yes. A reminder from from the political left that if you don't believe like them, you're a mind-numbed robot.

 

[Buckalew11]

Ah, but if he were a mere mortal, Christians would have to actually think about the things he taught, rather than blindly accepting them because of the source. The funny part is, his teachings really wouldn't suffer for the change, as they - for the most part - still hold a high moral standard. But they wouldn't necessarily be infallible, which would force people to actually think for themselves about such things as the nature of morality.

In my opinion, even if Cameron's claims could be 100% verified as accurate, there would be a large number of people that would ignore them, simply because they don't want to give up that crutch of not having to think about things on their own.

I find it rather insulting that you think Christians do not think for themselves. That is really narrow-minded thinking on your part.

And to Ford Family, I am not minimizing "being a great man". I'm just saying He would have been like most other great men (with a great message) but not who He claimed to be.

 

[Saxsoon]

And I believe there are those that if God showed up to them and gave them 7 fingers (ala Bruce Almighty), they would still not belief. While maybe not on this board , there would certainly be those that would be just as stubborn as a Christian to their long held beliefs.