Jesus wasn't resurrected

[poohandwendy]

Yes, some ways are better than others and sadly not everybody uses them. Maybe if there was more reaction to those that use the style you posted (and I bolded) things would get to a place everybody could live in harmony with. But that's not what happens. People use the commission as be as rude as possible get out of jail free card. As a non-Christian on the receiving end of those I can tell you that more often than not the silence from other Christians is deafening.

The shots are flung from both sides and as one who totally agrees with Fitz, the truth is (IMO) that most middle of the road people get bored with these threads when they become a sling-fest.

I think some Christians here have really bad delivery, but so do some non-Christians. There are clearly attacks from both sides and anyone who doesn't see it, IMO, is totally biased. I am not willing to be the Dis police and step in to tell everyone they are not playing nice or not representing correctly, IMO.

My point, it's deafening because people just walk away from the fight, we know from experience that it doesn't change anyones stance, delivery or beliefs.

 

[JoyG]

I also wonder how we can know exactly what the Rapture will be.

We can't know when it will be.

 

[JoyG]

I mean, I know many who speak about the Rapture and how they will be taken up to Heaven and leave the earth, yet who state there can be no such thing as ghosts. To me, they are both magical, paranormal phenomena and to say one is fact and one cannot be just is odd to me.

This is going to take our thread in a whole new direction!

But, since you brought it up...I think I have been guilty of that in the past. Firmly declaring that there was no such thing as ghosts.

But, when you get down to it, I suppose people who see things move around their houses...well I guess I can accept they're not making it up.

But I'll have to stand on what the Bible says about people of faith..."to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

So, whatever those people are seeing...I don't believe they're "christian ghosts". I suspect they are demons pretending to be loved ones, showing people what they want to see.

So I still want no part of them!

 

[magicmato]

This is going to take our thread in a whole new direction!

But, since you brought it up...I think I have been guilty of that in the past. Firmly declaring that there was no such thing as ghosts.

But, when you get down to it, I suppose people who see things move around their houses...well I guess I can accept they're not making it up.

But I'll have to stand on what the Bible says about people of faith..."to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

So, whatever those people are seeing...I don't believe they're "christian ghosts". I suspect they are demons pretending to be loved ones, showing people what they want to see.

So I still want no part of them!

But would that not leave the possibility that ghosts could be innocent people who just happened not to be Christian? If an atheist dies, could they not be a ghost? After all, their soul would be someplace and I do not buy that they would be in hell, so why not a ghost?

 

[cardaway]

I think some Christians here have really bad delivery, but so do some non-Christians. There are clearly attacks from both sides and anyone who doesn't see it, IMO, is totally biased. I am not willing to be the Dis police and step in to tell everyone they are not playing nice or not representing correctly, IMO.

When called on it I have seen non-Chrsitans own up to being rude. The others just claim they didn't do anything wrong (we're only quoting scripture, how can that be wrong? ) and all but say they plan to change nothing.

JMO YMMV

 

[poohandwendy]

When called on it I have seen non-Chrsitans own up to being rude. The others just claim they didn't do anything wrong (we're only quoting scripture, how can that be wrong? ) and all but say they plan to change nothing.

JMO YMMV

There are some extreme people on this board who will NEVER own up to their rudeness, they just don't see it that way. I see it across the board, dem/rep, Christian/non, etc, etc ,etc.

I don't hold a whole group accountable for the actions of the few, nor do I expect the group to make amends for the few. It is what it is. It's what makes may people walk away from these types of threads.

 

[JoyG]

But would that not leave the possibility that ghosts could be innocent people who just happened not to be Christian? If an atheist dies, could they not be a ghost? After all, their soul would be someplace and I do not buy that they would be in hell, so why not a ghost?

I tend to believe that all ghosts are demons (although the Bible doesn't spell it out for me) and that when a human dies he gets to his final destination where ever that may be.

One thing that leaves me wondering is that when Jesus was resurrected (see we're getting back on topic ) He said to "doubting" Thomas to feel his wounds to see that he wasn't a "ghost". I wonder to myself why would he have used that particular word. Maybe it's my Bible translation (NIV) or maybe he did use that word. Anyone know the answer to that?

 

[Buckalew11]

And some people read and remember what they wish and forget the rest. I know for a fact I have apologized for rude posts, I know cybrkitn did just the other day, fitswimmer has, and I believe there are many more who have also said things that came out rude, harsh etc. and apologized.
It seems to me that both sides have made rude remarks. I'm trying to recall if I have ever seen anyone apologize for saying Christians believe in fairy tales and the like? Seems to me that what non-Christians want from Christians who believe "Jesus is the only way" is for those Christians to recant that remark and say "find any path to God you want, you do not/did not need the sacrifice of Christ on the cross for forgiveness from God". I really doubt that many Christians are going to say that because no where in the Bible is that said. We're not making these rules up as we go along. We're not deciding this is the ay I want it to be, so that is the path I choose.
To candy coat the core belief of Christianity would be wrong (IMHO) and Jesus said you are either for Him or against Him. Lukewarm is really wrong in the eyes of God (according to scripture which is how we know everything and anything about the characteristics of God).

 

[magicmato]

And some people read and remember what they wish and forget the rest. I know for a fact I have apologized for rude posts, I know cybrkitn did just the other day, fitswimmer has, and I believe there are many more who have also said things that came out rude, harsh etc. and apologized.
It seems to me that both sides have made rude remarks. I'm trying to recall if I have ever seen anyone apologize for saying Christians believe in fairy tales and the like? Seems to me that what non-Christians want from Christians who believe "Jesus is the only way" is for those Christians to recant that remark and say "find any path to God you want, you do not/did not need the sacrifice of Christ on the cross for forgiveness from God". I really doubt that many Christians are going to say that because no where in the Bible is that said. We're not making these rules up as we go along. We're not deciding this is the ay I want it to be, so that is the path I choose.
To candy coat the core belief of Christianity would be wrong (IMHO) and Jesus said you are either for Him or against Him. Lukewarm is really wrong in the eyes of God (according to scripture which is how we know everything and anything about the characteristics of God).

No, I think non-christians don't want someone to not believe their faith, but would rather have the person treat them as respectfully as the christian demands to be treated. If a person came up to a Christian and said: "I believe the 33% of the world who believe in Christianity are all doomed to ride a merry-go-round for eternity because they believe in a false god!" I would say that that Christian would scream about their faith being attacked and rightly so. Yet that very same Christian would probably not see anything wrong with "sharing the Word" and telling a non-christian that 67% of the world is wrong in their beliefs and here is why.

 

[Buckalew11]

I tend to believe that all ghosts are demons (although the Bible doesn't spell it out for me) and that when a human dies he gets to his final destination where ever that may be.

Joy, your comment made me wonder... before Jesus died, people died and did not go to Heaven. Jesus clearly changed that when He went and freed those people and took them to Heaven. After that, we are taught, "to be absent from the body is to be present with God". However, what about the unfaithful? Are they still in that "holding place" awaiting the day of judgement? In the very end, the Bible speaks of casting Satan and his followers into the Lake of Fire. This would come after the Judgement day, no? Satan isn't in "Hell" now...we know this from scripture also. He roams here "looking for those to devour". Would this be the place commonly known as Sheol?
Sorry, lots of questions. I'm full of them though.

 

[salmoneous]

I also wonder how we can know exactly what the Rapture will be. I mean, isn't a lot of the Bible allegory and metaphor?

Growing up, we used to watch the "Thief in the Night" movies in church. Same basic idea as the Left Behind movies. We had lots of speakers on the rapture, what would happen etc.

They made it clear that no one could know when the rapture would take place. However, the Bible made it 100% certain that it would take place before 1988.

Be careful when listening to folks who think they've figure out Biblical prophesy. If God wanted us to understand something, I think he would have just told us rather than burring it in a puzzle and forcing us to try and figure it out.

 

[cardaway]

I don't hold a whole group accountable for the actions of the few, nor do I expect the group to make amends for the few.

I wasn't holding a whole group accontable. I know there have been cases in the past when things were different.

 

[cardaway]

I'm trying to recall if I have ever seen anyone apologize for saying Christians believe in fairy tales and the like?

But you do see people call others on it without the treatment I'm geting for crying foul at what people have posted. I also have never seen anybody posting that stuff basically cry "Who me?" like I just did in this thread.

To candy coat the core belief of Christianity would be wrong (IMHO) and Jesus said you are either for Him or against Him. Lukewarm is really wrong in the eyes of God (according to scripture which is how we know everything and anything about the characteristics of God).

People direct specific quotes to people and they do it for a reason. If you think they did out of kindness then may I show you this bridge...

 

[JoyG]

Joy, your comment made me wonder... before Jesus died, people died and did not go to Heaven. Jesus clearly changed that when He went and freed those people and took them to Heaven. After that, we are taught, "to be absent from the body is to be present with God". However, what about the unfaithful? Are they still in that "holding place" awaiting the day of judgement? In the very end, the Bible speaks of casting Satan and his followers into the Lake of Fire. This would come after the Judgement day, no? Satan isn't in "Hell" now...we know this from scripture also. He roams here "looking for those to devour". Would this be the place commonly known as Sheol?
Sorry, lots of questions. I'm full of them though.

Your guess is as good as mine!

I sent you a pm by the way (on a different topic )

 

[Buckalew11]

No, I think non-christians don't want someone to not believe their faith, but would rather have the person treat them as respectfully as the christian demands to be treated. If a person came up to a Christian and said: "I believe the 33% of the world who believe in Christianity are all doomed to ride a merry-go-round for eternity because they believe in a false god!" I would say that that Christian would scream about their faith being attacked and rightly so. Yet that very same Christian would probably not see anything wrong with "sharing the Word" and telling a non-christian that 67% of the world is wrong in their beliefs and here is why.

Maybe you're right. I don't know. I don't think I'd cry "foul" as long as I am free to practice my faith. I don't think I would care if someone thinks my belief is wrong and states it.(riding a merry-go-round for eternity makes me sick to my stomach though--I'd need bonine!)
I guess if the Bible was more open about different ways of coming to God and it didn't seem so (what is quite blunt IMO) about Jesus christ, I think less Christians would seem so "matter of fact, please think about your decision very seriously, this is why I believe there is only one way and not many paths to God". It really is less about one side right and one side wrong and more about what Christians are convicted of of being Truth. I'm not sure whether to be sorry for that or not... If Jesus is the way to God and a christian should have told you that and didn't, one would feel guilty for not doing everything they could for you. It really is more about love and caring than about anything else. I'm sorry it comes across that way to people who do not share that viewpoint.

 

[Buckalew11]

But you do see people call others on it without the treatment I'm geting for crying foul at what people have posted. I also have never seen anybody posting that stuff basically cry "Who me?" like I just did in this thread.




People direct specific quotes to people and they do it for a reason. If you think they did out of kindness then may I show you this bridge...

Mike, I am sorry. I am not following you.

My candy coating comment is more about Christians who think they can please everyone by sitting on the fence (being neither hot nor cold=lukewarm). They're happy and everyone's happy because they are saying "pick your path, it is OK. Everyone just pick a path! It'll be OK!"

 

[magicmato]

Maybe you're right. I don't know. I don't think I'd cry "foul" as long as I am free to practice my faith. I don't think I would care if someone thinks my belief is wrong and states it.(riding a merry-go-round for eternity makes me sick to my stomach though--I'd need bonine!)
I guess if the Bible was more open about different ways of coming to God and it didn't seem so (what is quite blunt IMO) about Jesus christ, I think less Christians would seem so "matter of fact, please think about your decision very seriously, this is why I believe there is only one way and not many paths to God". It really is less about one side right and one side wrong and more about what Christians are convicted of of being Truth. I'm not sure whether to be sorry for that or not... If Jesus is the way to God and a christian should have told you that and didn't, one would feel guilty for not doing everything they could for you. It really is more about love and caring than about anything else. I'm sorry it comes across that way to people who do not share that viewpoint.

I guess I just do not see the love in being sledgehammered by others for what is my own personal religious beliefs. It leaves me wondering how good a belief system could it be if the only way to get members is to scream about how anyone without a valid card will go straight to hell, no matter what they have done with their lives. The devil, hell, all of that just seems like a convenient way to make people run to the church out of fear.

I really have not seen many arguments about why Christianity is so wonderful and here are loving, positive, happy reasons to belong. But perhaps that is just because I have not met the right people.

 

[poohandwendy]

I wasn't holding a whole group accontable. I know there have been cases in the past when things were different.

No, you don't. But you were asking where the rest of us were...we are here. We just sometimes don't have the energy to engage in the same old same old.

 

[ead79]

I really have not seen many arguments about why Christianity is so wonderful and here are loving, positive, happy reasons to belong. But perhaps that is just because I have not met the right people.

And I find that to truly be a shame about Christians as a whole that we don't focus more on this. As a Christian I certainly find the idea of getting to live eternally with Jesus to be wonderful. But at the same time, my faith is about having a personal relationship with God. It's about getting to know Him better and striving (though I fail all the time) to act more and more like Him. It is about having someone to share my joys and my sorrows who truly understands me and knows what is best for me. It isn't about "fire insurance" to me, but rather about the joy of being unconditionally loved by the God of the universe. I think that often we as Christians don't do a very good job of explaining our beliefs about the Christian life in the here and now. So, sure, I want to go to heaven to be with Jesus when the time comes, but until then I want to have a relationship with Him right now.

 

[magicmato]

And I find that to truly be a shame about Christians as a whole that we don't focus more on this. As a Christian I certainly find the idea of getting to live eternally with Jesus to be wonderful. But at the same time, my faith is about having a personal relationship with God. It's about getting to know Him better and striving (though I fail all the time) to act more and more like Him. It is about having someone to share my joys and my sorrows who truly understands me and knows what is best for me. It isn't about "fire insurance" to me, but rather about the joy of being unconditionally loved by the God of the universe. I think that often we as Christians don't do a very good job of explaining our beliefs about the Christian life in the here and now. So, sure, I want to go to heaven to be with Jesus when the time comes, but until then I want to have a relationship with Him right now.

I am one of those people who were in the religion and has flirted with it now and then, but really cannot commit to it for the simple fact that I am repulsed by the negativity, the judgemental attitudes, etc. So I do not speak for non-christians, but for those who used to believe, I guess.