Is this normal process now? Update on Page 5

[goofy4tink]

My daughter ran the marathon in 2008, and we went to watch her run. Our SIL came along too, even though he is not the least bit interested in Disney. Both my daughter and my SIL are PTs and they are very familiar with people with disabilities.

My SIL and I walked around WS drinking beer one day and I made a stupid comment about an overweight person in an ecv. For the next hour, every time we saw someone in an ecv he explained what hidden disability that person might have had. It opened my eyes to the fact that you just never know what's going on in someone's life. That was a good experience for me.

I think everyone should spend 6 hrs with someone using an ECV at WDW!! I spent the day/evening with a friend who needs one. She is very proficient with hers. She used the buses there. Well...it was an eye-opening experience for me. Talk about being invisible!!! Man, sit on one of those and suddenly people no longer 'see' you! They cut in front of you, they stop in front of you. It's almost as if you really are invisible!! So sad. This woman never got in anyone's way, she never toot-tooted at anyone to move, she never ran anyone over..none of the things we see posted here. But man, she was treated like dirt! Like I said, very eye -opening.

Of course, not everyone on an ECV is good at riding it. There are many guests who use one just at WDW, and have perhaps, never been on one before. There are also those who figure it's going to be easier and faster to rent one..then the grandkids can ride on Grammie's lap and they can get through traffic faster and board buses first. Those that don't really need them but get them anyway,and are then rude on them? They give all ECV people a bad name!!! And that's the issue!! The abusers.

 

[Jimsig]

I think everyone should spend 6 hrs with someone using an ECV at WDW!!

10 min is all you need. We got my wife an ECV 2 weeks ago when we were there due to fatigue. At the time she was just less then a month removed from her last round of Chemo and about to begin another round. Without the ECV she would have been exhausted and would have had to lay down every day by 1 and sleep for a few hours at least. She would use the ECV in the morning, but when we went out to dinner she would leave it as she knew we would not be out that long. After 10 min in a park it was pretty obvious that people did not just pay attention. People would be walking in a straight line just ahead of us and would all of a sudden just turn in front of her with out looking. She would also get looks as to why she was using one, she's mid-30's and we have a 3yo DD. Like you said goofy4tink, not every one has been on one before and she was not good at getting on and off the bus, so that duty would fall to me. So whenever she felt she was getting an evil eye she would take her hat off, her hair now looks like Anne Hathaway's. That would usually do it and they would stop looking and you could sometimes see a look of understanding on their faces.

As has been mentioned before there are a lot of people who don't need them, but get them anyway and give a bad name to those that truly need them.

She said it was quiet an eye opening experience in seeing how those with disabilities are treated.

 

[HippieChickadee]

I have to be honest, when I went with my Nana (81 with cancer) and my Papa (85 and unstable physically) we went to Magic Kingdom and got them the EVC. Other then one time being unable to move because the crowd was so thick and people were oblivious (not faulting them, they were just walking in the large crowd), we didn't have ANY trouble. No one "looked" at us cross eyed, no one commented, we weren't treated differently and even went through the regular lines when permitted or when it wasn't a long wait to stand.

We did not take any buses however because it was just a day trip from the cruise, so my issues with the EVC's and buses didn't apply here, but I don't understand how EVC users are somehow treated differently in a negative way. And I spent a whole day with 2 of them.

I know you guys are referring to younger people who don't have visible disabilities, but in regards to the buses, I don't care if they are my grandparents, someone with a cast on their leg or someone who looks perfectly fine and capable, they should not jump the line the second they get there. There need to be something in place so they people who are in line first get on. If you read my earlier post on here- I waited over an hour because of a non-stop flow of EVC's and their families. I couldn't tell you what any of them looked like or if I could see an injury, I just know that I could have been on the first bus but waited until the fifth!

BTW- Nana was a little speed demon, I had to turn her "top speed" knob down

 

[maxiesmom]

but in regards to the buses, I don't care if they are my grandparents, someone with a cast on their leg or someone who looks perfectly fine and capable, they should not jump the line the second they get there. There need to be something in place so they people who are in line first get on. If you read my earlier post on here- I waited over an hour because of a non-stop flow of EVC's and their families. I couldn't tell you what any of them looked like or if I could see an injury, I just know that I could have been on the first bus but waited until the fifth!

The thing is, there are very few spots on buses for people with ECVs. If they are empty it makes sense to use them. Many times buses have lifts that don't work properly, or have all their ECV spots already full. Add to that how much safer it is for everyone to have the ECVs load first. No toes to run over, or legs to smack into.

I have to say I find it hard to believe that the only reason you had to wait for a few buses before getting on were people in ECVs. AS I stated before, there are only a few spots for them. 3 tops. That would mean each person with an ECV had at least 20 people board with them, to make the ECV users the only reason you had to wait a few buses in order to get one that had room for you.

I would be frustrated if I had to wait multiple buses, but I would still rather be standing in line than using an ECV to get around the parks. And I have learned to plan for my less than patient days and keep a $20 in my pocket for an emergency taxi.

 

[HippieChickadee]

That would mean each person with an ECV had at least 20 people board with them

Some did- other times they had 9 or 10 people with them.

And I do agree that they should load an empty bus, I'm just trying to say that they need to find a way to make it more fair. If they just pulled up 2 seconds before the bus got there, shouldn't that bus take the more then will fit line of people first and then radio for the next bus that the EVC should be picked up first then?

Pain in the butt? Yes.

Fair? Yes.

 

[goofy4tink]

Some did- other times they had 9 or 10 people with them.

And I do agree that they should load an empty bus, I'm just trying to say that they need to find a way to make it more fair. If they just pulled up 2 seconds before the bus got there, shouldn't that bus take the more then will fit line of people first and then radio for the next bus that the EVC should be picked up first then?

Pain in the butt? Yes.

Fair? Yes.

And we all understand how frustrating that must have been. The bus driver was wrong. Large groups should not have been allowed to all board first.

There is no way to make it 100% fair. ECVs have to be boarded first. If they are sitting there, waiting when the bus pulls up, they get loaded first. But, again, only 5 should be able to board with each ECV. The others should get in line. If they have to get on a different bus, so be it. But, in all reality, drivers seem to want to make people happy. And that is sometimes at the expense of those who have been standing there, waiting, while others arriving with an ECV are all allowed to just jump onboard.

 

[maxiesmom]

Some did- other times they had 9 or 10 people with them.

And I do agree that they should load an empty bus, I'm just trying to say that they need to find a way to make it more fair. If they just pulled up 2 seconds before the bus got there, shouldn't that bus take the more then will fit line of people first and then radio for the next bus that the EVC should be picked up first then?

Pain in the butt? Yes.

Fair? Yes.

You are assuming that the next bus on the way would have space and a working lift. Sometimes it has neither of those. So then what? Does the bus just not pick anyone up, so that it is fair to those in the ECV and those who are standing while waiting?

 

[seashoreCM]

I suppose we could take this point of view: Families of guests in wheelchairs already endure a lot of hardship so it would not be farfetched to cut them a break here and there.

I will make exception in the case of the 9 who were asked to get off the bus. Most likely the driver lost control of the situation. But since the 9 did Disney a favor and suffered inconvenience, IMHO Disney still owes those 9 something in return, something that can be enjoyed during that same vacation.

Regarding the picture of the bus interior, normally the sideways seats facing the center allow the bus to hold more people. But (as someone suggested) if people's feet are in the way of someone moving a wheelchair down the aisle, perhaps Disney needs to rethink that floor plan in favor of something else. Maybe have fold-up seats such as in a theater; everyone knows how to stand up for a moment so someone else can get through between the rows of seats to get to his own seat.

Touting to bus drivers (during training) the advantage of asking others to get out of their seats (and possibly losing the seats) let alone get off the bus is definitely not the way to go.

 

[Granny square]

You are assuming that the next bus on the way would have space and a working lift. Sometimes it has neither of those. So then what? Does the bus just not pick anyone up, so that it is fair to those in the ECV and those who are standing while waiting?

Everyone always ignores "fair" when this question is asked.

 

[maxiesmom]

Everyone always ignores "fair" when this question is asked.

I always think people forget the times they see people waiting on ECVs for a bus, and when one comes they are unable to board. The only thing that would be fair then would be for the bus to take no guests at all. But that doesn't happen, does it?

I guess I fall in with the group who thinks it is not a big deal to cut people in ECVs a break and let them get on the bus first. I would much rather be where I am, standing in line waiting for another bus, than where they are. Sitting in an ECV getting on the bus.

 

[Granny square]

I always think people forget the times they see people waiting on ECVs for a bus, and when one comes they are unable to board. The only thing that would be fair then would be for the bus to take no guests at all. But that doesn't happen, does it?

I guess I fall in with the group who thinks it is not a big deal to cut people in ECVs a break and let them get on the bus first. I would much rather be where I am, standing in line waiting for another bus, than where they are. Sitting in an ECV getting on the bus.

We waited through 3 buses and an hour of promises at the akv last trip. That was the only day we tried resort buses.

 

[joelkfla]

Regarding the picture of the bus interior, normally the sideways seats facing the center allow the bus to hold more people. But (as someone suggested) if people's feet are in the way of someone moving a wheelchair down the aisle, perhaps Disney needs to rethink that floor plan in favor of something else. Maybe have fold-up seats such as in a theater; everyone knows how to stand up for a moment so someone else can get through between the rows of seats to get to his own seat.

I'm sure there are limited options on seating configurations available from the bus manufacturers. Remember, the seats need to be approved by the DOT for safety. I assume even the 3-wheelchair arrangement is a customization.

There are at least 2 advantages to the current configuration: faster loading & unloading (it takes much longer to load & unload a fully occupied RTS with transverse seats), and more room for strollers, of which WDW probably carries more than any other transit system on earth.

Guests sitting in the longitudinal seats are normally not a problem when loading ECV's, so long as they pull their feet in. IMHO, it's the strollers that are really the problem, whether they be in the aisle, or stowed under the seat preventing the seated Guests from pulling their feet in. I don't have a solution, other than asking Guests to move their strollers, or stand up when their strollers are under the seats.

People have asked why we can't store strollers under the bus, like DME does. It's because we use low floor buses to eliminate stairs on loading. The cabin floor is just 15 inches above the ground. And even if we were to use standard floor buses, I'm not aware of any transit ones with underfloor storage.

 

[tjmw2727]

I always think people forget the times they see people waiting on ECVs for a bus, and when one comes they are unable to board. The only thing that would be fair then would be for the bus to take no guests at all. But that doesn't happen, does it?

I guess I fall in with the group who thinks it is not a big deal to cut people in ECVs a break and let them get on the bus first. I would much rather be where I am, standing in line waiting for another bus, than where they are. Sitting in an ECV getting on the bus.

I totally agree with this for the ECV user and immediate family/friends 5 or less!! The rest of the group should wait in line IMHO. That is the way we did it last Dec and we had no issues even when we had to take different buses. Sure my dd would rather have been sitting with her friend but we were a party of 10 total and only the immediate family boarded the bus with the ECV. That is what the sign said so that is what we did.

As for walking in someone else shoes -
try being a 17 year old cancer fighter in an ECV who looks pretty typical until she stands up or takes off her hat.
eta-
I should also say that we had excellent experiences with the bus service from POFQ the week of Christmas to and from the parks!

 

[Mother Gothel]

I received a phone call from Guest Services from my letter. The CM was apologetic and even took a step to make it up to us for our next trip. The CM did confirm that these situations shouldn't have happened, but she also said that they do not typically enforce groups to split up. She also said in different and more discreet words that sue-happy people make it difficult to enforce fairness regarding loading the bus with people who were there first vs the people who feel they are being discriminated against because they have a disability.