Is this math problem 3rd grade appropriate?

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I never tried to say you suck as a parent and if I gave you (or anyone) that idea, I apologize.

I don't remember you questioning how these curriculums got into schools. I remember you insulting those who made the decisions, and in the OP even said whoever wrote CC "should be put to sleep". If those count as "productive" posts, I don't know what to say.

Be careful. As one of the people who apparently should be put to sleep (or rather killed) I wrote a reply to that post. She replied as follows:

Good to know. As for my statement, yeah I guess it was harsh. But if you follow the money, youll see that CC is bring driven by non educators bent on undermining teachers who are just funneling tax payer dollars into their private hands at the expense of my kids' educations. I could care less about their health.

My reply was this: for which I received points, and had my post deleted.

That's your opinion. I would disagree. To me, the fact that your child seems to have made it to third grade unable to subtract, and yet you got the message that he was a good student, is pretty convincing evidence that your state needed new, more rigorous standards.

Wishing hardworking people, who have families, and friends dead is not OK. Looking back at your posts, I see that you're studying to be a nurse. I wouldn't dream of coming here and posting that I wished nurses were killed.

Apparently, on the DIS it is OK to threaten educators, and your right to do so will be vigorously protected.

I assume this is the last post I will make on the DIS, so read it fast. It's been nice knowing (most of) y'all.

Bye

 

[castleview]

I never tried to say you suck as a parent and if I gave you (or anyone) that idea, I apologize.

I don't remember you questioning how these curriculums got into schools. I remember you insulting those who made the decisions, and in the OP even said whoever wrote CC "should be put to sleep". If those count as "productive" posts, I don't know what to say.

No need to apologize. My head is obviously spinning over this situation and I'm not handling it well on the board. FWIW, I talked to his teacher yesterday. He is getting picked up for intervention which I am happy about. Sadly, a lot more kids are getting picked up from what she told me also. We got through his homework today and it was frustrating because it seemed almost pointless to be doing it if he didn't have the foundation he needed. I'll see where this is going. But we are at a point where he is drifting off in class (either daydreaming, asking to go to the bathroom, sharpening his pencil) just to get away from the stress of math.

Be careful. As one of the people who apparently should be put to sleep (or rather killed) I wrote a reply to that post. She replied as follows:



My reply was this: for which I received points, and had my post deleted.



Apparently, on the DIS it is OK to threaten educators, and your right to do so will be vigorously protected.

I assume this is the last post I will make on the DIS, so read it fast. It's been nice knowing (most of) y'all.

Bye

Please, I'm married to a teacher and the daughter of a teacher and principal. I don't think I'm the type to threaten that population.

 

[luv2sleep]

OP that's great your school is helping him. Did you have to ask for it?

 

[castleview]

OP that's great your school is helping him. Did you have to ask for it?

Not sure. LOL I had emailed the teacher and then she asked me because at the time she wasn't sure what exactly his issue was (she still isn't sure, but has leveled it down to 2-3 policies. Aye). Anyway, I made it loud and clear that I support him getting extra help. I've dealt with her before as she taught one of my daughters and I know she is fantastic.

Thank you very much for mentioning Kumon and IXL. I've got them on my bookmarks now. We'll see where the intervention goes. Getting him to do extra work (even websites like Math Magician) is quite difficult right now. Her's hoping this is the start of a positive change.

Meanwhile, I just got the report cards of the other two kids whose averages are in the high 90s. I'm wondering if this is payback for having it easy with those two or if I just got lazy as a parent the third time around. I need to work out.

 

[luv2sleep]

Not sure. LOL I had emailed the teacher and then she asked me because at the time she wasn't sure what exactly his issue was (she still isn't sure, but has leveled it down to 2-3 policies. Aye). Anyway, I made it loud and clear that I support him getting extra help. I've dealt with her before as she taught one of my daughters and I know she is fantastic. Thank you very much for mentioning Kumon and IXL. I've got them on my bookmarks now. We'll see where the intervention goes. Getting him to do extra work (even websites like Math Magician) is quite difficult right now. Her's hoping this is the start of a positive change. Meanwhile, I just got the report cards of the other two kids whose averages are in the high 90s. I'm wondering if this is payback for having it easy with those two or if I just got lazy as a parent the third time around. I need to work out.

If he's getting it eventually then having him practice with something like IXL can help. When I was in college we used problem solver books to study. Doing the same types of problems over and over again increased our proficiency and the rapidity with which we learned and retained concepts. Doing that kind of thing can help. Granted I know he's in only in third grade but based on what you've said a few minutes of practice per day might help.

Post edited.

 

[sam_gordon]

Not sure. LOL I had emailed the teacher and then she asked me because at the time she wasn't sure what exactly his issue was (she still isn't sure, but has leveled it down to 2-3 policies. Aye). Anyway, I made it loud and clear that I support him getting extra help. I've dealt with her before as she taught one of my daughters and I know she is fantastic.

Thank you very much for mentioning Kumon and IXL. I've got them on my bookmarks now. We'll see where the intervention goes. Getting him to do extra work (even websites like Math Magician) is quite difficult right now. Her's hoping this is the start of a positive change.

Meanwhile, I just got the report cards of the other two kids whose averages are in the high 90s. I'm wondering if this is payback for having it easy with those two or if I just got lazy as a parent the third time around. I need to work out.

I'm glad your getting extra help for your DS. But don't blame yourself. Kids are all different and have different skills and strengths.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Yes, it would be great if it were that simple. You're missing the point that the kids have been overburdened with future concepts so that a basic foundation wasn't there. Do I have a problem algebra concepts being taught in third grade? No. But I have a problem with it if you didn't firm up addition and subtraction.



I agree with a lot of this, but some very good educated parents just hit a wall when it comes to teaching their own kids…or at least one of their own kids.

Subtraction and addition is firmed up in 1st and 2nd grade. By third grade, kids should be proficient in this concept.

This problem is acceptable for 2nd grade and 3rd grade. In fact, my niece (in 2nd grade) did it with no help. My niece is an average student and math is not her strong subject.

 

[sam_gordon]

Subtraction and addition is firmed up in 1st and 2nd grade. By third grade, kids should be proficient in this concept.

This problem is acceptable for 2nd grade and 3rd grade. In fact, my niece (in 2nd grade) did it with no help. My niece is an average student and math is not her strong subject.

My second grader didn't get it. My fourth grader did. My second grader didn't understand that "domestically" <> "foreign". I'm sure if I changed the words around, she'd get it.

 

[jodifla]

A post that's going around Facebook (I just got it yesterday):

Common Core: Jack has a cat and Jill has a pail of water. If Billy has $5, how many figs will his dog eat? Write your constructed response using bar graph.

Yes, the hatred for this inane yakety yakety pseudo math is starting to spread.

 

[castleview]

I'm glad your getting extra help for your DS. But don't blame yourself. Kids are all different and have different skills and strengths.

Thank you.

Subtraction and addition is firmed up in 1st and 2nd grade. By third grade, kids should be proficient in this concept.

.

Exactly. My point is it wasn't firmed up.

 

[sam_gordon]

A post that's going around Facebook (I just got it yesterday):

Common Core: Jack has a cat and Jill has a pail of water. If Billy has $5, how many figs will his dog eat? Write your constructed response using bar graph.

Yes, the hatred for this inane yakety yakety pseudo math is starting to spread.

I think at least part of the hatred is people aren't willing to do their own research. They see something like what you've posted here and immediately jump on the "hater" bandwagon. Or they have a problem like castleview did (in the OP) and it's not CC, but a long-term deficit (in her case, her DS not have the addition/subtraction "foundation" in the last two years).

Don't get me wrong, I agree there are definitely problems in our schools. I just disagree that CC is going to be the "big failure" that people are making it out to be.

 

[jodifla]

I think at least part of the hatred is people aren't willing to do their own research. They see something like what you've posted here and immediately jump on the "hater" bandwagon. Or they have a problem like castleview did (in the OP) and it's not CC, but a long-term deficit (in her case, her DS not have the addition/subtraction "foundation" in the last two years).

Don't get me wrong, I agree there are definitely problems in our schools. I just disagree that CC is going to be the "big failure" that people are making it out to be.

No, the people I know who hate it are immersed in it, trying to help their floundering kids who are starting to consider themselves "stupid" and want to quit school -- in Kindergarten!

 

[sam_gordon]

No, the people I know who hate it are immersed in it, trying to help their floundering kids who are starting to consider themselves "stupid" and want to quit school -- in Kindergarten!

OK, have they actually read the standards? Are the teachers properly trained? Are the teachers properly teaching? Was CC implemented in a good way (which HAS been done by some schools)?

"My kids now hate math, and it's CC's fault!" is a conclusion not based on all the facts. CC is new, so that must be what's at fault.

Mathmatic Standards
English Language Standards
THESE are the standards. What shouldn't the "typical" student be able to accomplish?

Will ALL students be able to meet these standards? No. But that doesn't mean the standards are unrealistic.

 

[jodifla]

OK, have they actually read the standards? Are the teachers properly trained? Are the teachers properly teaching? Was CC implemented in a good way (which HAS been done by some schools)?

"My kids now hate math, and it's CC's fault!" is a conclusion not based on all the facts. CC is new, so that must be what's at fault.

Mathmatic Standards
English Language Standards
THESE are the standards. What shouldn't the "typical" student be able to accomplish?

Will ALL students be able to meet these standards? No. But that doesn't mean the standards are unrealistic.

Ok, let's go right after these standards. This is first grade:

Mathematical Practices
1. Make sense of problems and persevere in solving them.
2. Reason abstractly and quantitatively.
3. Construct viable arguments and critique the reasoning of others.
4. Model with mathematics.
5. Use appropriate tools strategically.
6. Attend to precision.
7. Look for and make use of structure.
8. Look for and express regularity in repeated reasoning.

6 year olds are concrete thinkers. That is how they are developmentally wired. You can't just say "Think abstractly, Sally!" And critique other people's
reasoning? At 5 or 6?

Yakety yakety yakety yak.


These kids should be getting the foundations, which are concrete.

 

[luv2sleep]

Ok, let's go right after these standards. This is first grade: Mathematical Practices 1. Make sense of problems and persevere in solving them. 2. Reason abstractly and quantitatively. 3. Construct viable arguments and critique the reasoning of others. 4. Model with mathematics. 5. Use appropriate tools strategically. 6. Attend to precision. 7. Look for and make use of structure. 8. Look for and express regularity in repeated reasoning. 6 year olds are concrete thinkers. That is how they are developmentally wired. You can't just say "Think abstractly, Sally!" And critique other people's reasoning? At 5 or 6? Yakety yakety yakety yak. These kids should be getting the foundations, which are concrete.

My son is in first, has special needs, and although sometimes he needs deeper explanation of the concept and practice, he's getting it. I'm always shocked because to me it seems hard to do at 6. I agree! He's doing it though and he's learning it in class.

 

[jodifla]

This is WAY WAY beyond most 1st graders I know. (Probably not on the DISboards, but in the rest of the general world.)


1st grade writing standards:


CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.1.1 Write opinion pieces in which they introduce the topic or name the book they are writing about, state an opinion, supply a reason for the opinion, and provide some sense of closure.
CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.1.2 Write informative/explanatory texts in which they name a topic, supply some facts about the topic, and provide some sense of closure.
CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.1.3 Write narratives in which they recount two or more appropriately sequenced events, include some details regarding what happened, use temporal words to signal event order, and provide some sense of closure.

 

[sam_gordon]

Ok, let's go right after these standards. This is first grade:

Mathematical Practices
1. Make sense of problems and persevere in solving them.
2. Reason abstractly and quantitatively.
3. Construct viable arguments and critique the reasoning of others.
4. Model with mathematics.
5. Use appropriate tools strategically.
6. Attend to precision.
7. Look for and make use of structure.
8. Look for and express regularity in repeated reasoning.

6 year olds are concrete thinkers. That is how they are developmentally wired. You can't just say "Think abstractly, Sally!" And critique other people's
reasoning? At 5 or 6?

Yakety yakety yakety yak.


These kids should be getting the foundations, which are concrete.

Yet just above what you posted...

Operations and Algebraic Thinking

Represent and solve problems involving addition and subtraction.
Understand and apply properties of operations and the relationship between addition and subtraction.
Add and subtract within 20.
Work with addition and subtraction equations.
Number and Operations in Base Ten

Extend the counting sequence.
Understand place value.
Use place value understanding and properties of operations to add and subtract.
Measurement and Data

Measure lengths indirectly and by iterating length units.
Tell and write time.
Represent and interpret data.
Geometry

Reason with shapes and their attributes.

Looks like a lot of "foundation" there. Place values, add/subtract to 20, etc.

All these things (along with the English language you listed) can be simplified to grade level. It's not like the standards are looking for a 30 page (heck, I bet they're not expecting 1 page) dissertation.

 

[luv2sleep]

This is WAY WAY beyond most 1st graders I know. (Probably not on the DISboards, but in the rest of the general world.) 1st grade writing standards: CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.1.1 Write opinion pieces in which they introduce the topic or name the book they are writing about, state an opinion, supply a reason for the opinion, and provide some sense of closure. CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.1.2 Write informative/explanatory texts in which they name a topic, supply some facts about the topic, and provide some sense of closure. CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.1.3 Write narratives in which they recount two or more appropriately sequenced events, include some details regarding what happened, use temporal words to signal event order, and provide some sense of closure.

I responded to the other post you made but it must have been deleted. (It seems to be there now. I can't tell)


In regards to the above my son who is in first grade can do this. It's not as complex as it seems. It's all done very simply and accomplishes the goals. It's intimidating to read but when you see your 1st graders work it's actually not.

 

[jodifla]

And the letters and comments keep pouring in:
Oct. 18
http://dianeravitch.net/category/common-core/

Dear Diane,

Until September of this year, I only had a fleeting knowledge of what the Common Core was all about because I didn’t have a school aged child. This year we eagerly put our oldest son in kindergarten in our upstate, rural New York district. The uneasy feeling in my stomach started on the first day when the parents were ushered into the auditorium and the principal started preparing us that we would find stressed out teachers. Parents with older children began asking questions about why the kindergartners needed to participate in the dreaded testing. Upon returning to my son’s classroom, I did indeed find a stressed out teacher, saying things like, “we are all going to have to work together if we are going to get through this curriculum.” This is when I first encountered the word “module” as well, as I looked at my five year old’s schedule and noticed that he would be doing ELA from 10:45-12:25 every day. He is in full day kindergarten, and the day is packed with Fundations, Writing, ELA, ELA modules, and Math modules. To say alarm bells went off would be an understatement, but we continued thinking, “how bad can kindergarten get?”

Back to school night was a presentation by all five kindergarten teachers, which quickly turned into, “we know this sounds awful, but we promise are going to remember that your children are little.” Within a month of school starting, we were told that they needed to do away with the children’s rest period because there simply wasn’t enough time for it with the curriculum. The more I heard these comments from school, the deeper I dug into the EngageNY modules and started following your blog.

I’m sure you get letters like this every day. I listened to your Town Hall phone call the other night (thank you for not interrupting the questions like Commissioner King in Poughkeepsie) and heard lots of sound advice about what parents and teachers can do to fight back against these ridiculous standards. My question is more basic: Do I send my son to this school tomorrow? ...

 

[jodifla]

I responded to the other post you made but it must have been deleted. (It seems to be there now. I can't tell)


In regards to the above my son who is in first grade can do this. It's not as complex as it seems. It's all done very simply and accomplishes the goals. It's intimidating to read but when you see your 1st graders work it's actually not.

Your son can write multiple sentences in the beginning of first grade?