Is this legal for DVC to do?

[dianeschlicht]

As a renter of points, and a future DVC member, this scares me. 1st off, if I rent a car for my Brother, and he goes to Dillard’s and buys a suite with a bad CC, can Dillard’s ask me to pay the bill because I provided the transportation to the store----NO!

By renting DVC points, I am only given a room to stay in and ability to charge items that are offered by the hotel at which that room is located. All other charges have to come from outside of that hotel, which make them purchases that are secured with a credit card or cash at check-in. “Secured” is the key word. The ability to charge outside of the Hotel must be secured with a CC or CASH. If I give them a card and they tell me the card is expired, I cannot just ask them to put it on the DVC member’s account.

The OP’s situation is the result of an error made by the Hotel/Resort. They should correct the issue and bill the party that signed for the room and provided the CC that “Secured” the ability to charge to the room for off-property expenditures. I hope a DVC member can get a defined answer from the DVC and post it here.

Except they aren't really "outside the resort". By giving charging priveledges to your key card, you are making the DVC resort part of the transaction. Since all are part of the larger WDW resort, you scenario is semantics. As an owner, I would absolutely expect that it would be my responsibility to clear this up to clear my account status with DVC. It's quite a simple proceedure in the OP's case, because this was a family member. I for one am not, nor have I ever been comfortable renting to strangers, and this is a very good reason not to. Couple that with the fact that I think renting points out for trips that basically cost the renter less than a value for home away from home accommodations, is setting the scene for attracting folks to renting that might be on the edge of being able to really afford the trip. That seems like a dangerous combination to me.

 

[mom23boys]

Okay I understand that anything a person who uses my room charges or damages is my responsibility.

Now when I go in August, I will have three rooms, One for my Inlaws and one for my DSister. Can I tell the front desk not to allow them to room charge?

 

[vascubaguy]

Excuse me....but why shouldn't it default back to the person who holds the reservation? Anyone but a member who stays in the room is a guest on the member's reservation. It's just like you making a reservation at a hotel and paying for it and then letting someone else stay there. It's your room...you are responsible for any and all charges to the room.

I can hand you my credit card, but if you go out and use it, I'm not responsible for the charges. It's the responsibility of the merchants to ensure that the charges are being made by the owner of that card. When a hotel takes on the responsibility of accepting charges for a guest, that is a contract between them and the person whose card was swiped, not the person on the reservation. If the person who made the reservation is ultimately the one responsible, they shouldn't allow any outside charges without getting the permission of that person.

 

[Dream1]

Not to create an argument, but your response (dianeschlicht) seems to tailor to your own personal preference of not renting, and it seems like you are using this situation to validate your opinion that renters are getting something they otherwise cannot afford. I would not be so quick to make that assumption. You sound of having a bit of “elitism” to your argument. I, as a renter, do appreciate the renting of the points, and yes, it does allow me to enjoy a resort I would normally pay much more for. But that does not mean that if the points were not available I would not pay full price to stay at a DVC resort. To be fair, the DVC member renting the points set the purchase price, not the renter.

I would hope DVC members with your attitude about renting do not try and use this isolated and obvious error laden situation as reason to persuade others not to rent their points. The OP’s situation seems to bring light to a situation that needs clarification by DVC, not members who obviously have a bias towards the renting of DVC points.

On the issue of my rental car example; I accept the contract terms that if a ticket is issued to the driver, I am responsible, and if an accident occurs, I am responsible. DVC members accept the same when they rent. If I break something, or incur on-site expenses they will be held responsible (I personally would never jeopardize a member). However, after talking with our sales agent at DVC, I believe the member does not, and should not assume responsibility for charges that are “secured” by the renters CC or Cash deposit. I just don’t see the terms stating as such, and I definitely do not see Disney expecting as much.

dianeschlicht,

Have you confirmed this with someone at DVC who is knowledgeable enough to properly answer the question? : --------“Except they aren't really "outside the resort". By giving charging priveledges to your key card, you are making the DVC resort part of the transaction. Since all are part of the larger WDW resort, you scenario is semantics.”--------

I do not see it as a member giving charging privileges. I see it as the resort giving charging privileges only after the charges are “secured” by a CC or Cash deposit. The DVC member has no control over who the resort grants charging privileges to or not. Sure, they can make a request that a person staying on their reservation not be given charging privileges, but as we have seen, the resort may still grant those privileges. The resort is the final say in who gets to charge and who doesn’t, and the resort should be the final party to bear the burden of those granted privileges.

 

[Sam60]

So... if I rent an apartment from a large corporation, and then sublet a spare bedroom (something allowed in the contract) to an individual who purchases a truck load of merchandise from that corporation and then drives off before paying, never to be seen again, can my landlord legally to lock me out of my apartment until I reimburse him?

Sounds questionable to me.

 

[Doctor P]

I am done with this thread as it has, once again, turned into a debate by persons who don't want to accept correct, and documented, answers that are not what they want to hear.

 

[kathleena]

I don't really know the correct and legal answer here, but this is my experience.

When I haved use the room key to charge - the charge goes onto my room tab. It is then printed out on a hotel statement for me and the total is charged to the credit card that I gave them when I checked in. I don't view the individual charges I made as charged to my credit card. I view the room expenses as being charged, in total, to my credit card - just like any hotel bill would be. Since the hotel room is booked by the DVC owner, I can see where they are liable to cover anything charged to the room, if the card provided at check in was not valid or had other issues that affected the resorts ability to charge a balance to it.

It's not that - as in our own sensibilities - the renter isn't liable in the long run - it's just that it is a hotel room that the owner has rented to a third party. The hotel is not responsible for dealing with the third party - the owner is.

So, I'm siding with DVC on this one. I think the owner has to CYA with the renter.

JMHO.

 

[justcruisin]

So the below is what we agreed to when buying into DVC ...

"All renters and exchangers must comply with the rules and regulations affecting occupancy of Vacation Homes, and the renting Owners will be responsible for the acts or omissions of their renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Owners to use a reserved Vacation Home."

It's not clear to me this includes room charges. The BIL did give a credit card and disney failed to charge it. He did nothing to elude paying. I understand the owner is responsible for damages to the room, but I can't see being responsible for a mistake disney made.

 

[crisi]

My husband works in retail and has lots of experience with credit card transactions...this is his theory:

While BIL was there (and probably for a short time after he left) Disney had permission to charge his account. For some reason, the transactions did not hit during the period Disney retained permission. Once they lose permission, they can't charge BIL's account legally. If this were a cash resort, Disney would be SOL and out the money. If they had a way to really track cash guests well, they might put a hold on the guest information and when you call five years from now to make a reservation they'd say "you still have an outstanding balance from last stay, we need to clear that before we can make a new reservation" - they currently don't track cash guests that well (bet they can do it with DCL though). And it isn't a cash resort. As a membership system, they have the ability to put a hold against the member's account until the bill is paid.

The difference between putting a member's account "not in good standing" and not allowing any reservations and forcing them to pay the guest/renter bill is subtle, but its (as has been mentioned) important.

 

[vascubaguy]

So the below is what we agreed to when buying into DVC ...

"All renters and exchangers must comply with the rules and regulations affecting occupancy of Vacation Homes, and the renting Owners will be responsible for the acts or omissions of their renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Owners to use a reserved Vacation Home."

It's not clear to me this includes room charges. The BIL did give a credit card and disney failed to charge it. He did nothing to elude paying. I understand the owner is responsible for damages to the room, but I can't see being responsible for a mistake disney made.

This is one of those things that is up to interpretation, so it will be interesting to hear what they actually say when the OPer calls tomorrow. I think if it ever happened to me, I'd definately fight it.

 

[Dean]

The difference between putting a member's account "not in good standing" and not allowing any reservations and forcing them to pay the guest/renter bill is subtle, but its (as has been mentioned) important.

Except that the rules say you can't reserve or bank if you're not in good standing so you're back where we started from. I've already stated that this is the approach DVC takes and that I feel it is within their rights. Having knowledge of other timeshares confirms this approach. If you call DVC, they will tell you directly that if there are charges not taken care of they will attach them to the account and place the account "not in good standing".

 

[gazeborob]

Excuse me....but why shouldn't it default back to the person who holds the reservation? Anyone but a member who stays in the room is a guest on the member's reservation. It's just like you making a reservation at a hotel and paying for it and then letting someone else stay there. It's your room...you are responsible for any and all charges to the room.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if I remember correctly, you can't have charging privileges if you don't put down a credit card. In this case, the renter left a card on file, and BWV chose not to use it. This is not the owners problem. Further more, the renter asked before he left, and BWV told him the bill was zero. The question I have is, what happened to the card number on file?

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

With this new twist/risk, it seems like DVC points should now be renting for at least $15/pt.

Since there is a separate secondary agreement (outside of the rental)between the guest and the resort at check-in, I doubt the DVC owner would lose in an actual court case. Unless of course, the case made its way to the Supreme court..property owners are losers there.

 

[Sammie]

As a renter of points, and a future DVC member, this scares me. 1st off, if I rent a car for my Brother, and he goes to Dillard’s and buys a suite with a bad CC, can Dillard’s ask me to pay the bill because I provided the transportation to the store----NO!

By renting DVC points, I am only given a room to stay in and ability to charge items that are offered by the hotel at which that room is located. All other charges have to come from outside of that hotel, which make them purchases that are secured with a credit card or cash at check-in. “Secured” is the key word. The ability to charge outside of the Hotel must be secured with a CC or CASH. If I give them a card and they tell me the card is expired, I cannot just ask them to put it on the DVC member’s account.

The OP’s situation is the result of an error made by the Hotel/Resort. They should correct the issue and bill the party that signed for the room and provided the CC that “Secured” the ability to charge to the room for off-property expenditures. I hope a DVC member can get a defined answer from the DVC and post it here.

No Dillards would not be able to hold you responsible because you provided transportation, but if you drove your brother to the 7/11 to get some cigs and when he came out he yells, " hit the gas, I just robbed the place," then yes you can be arrested right along with him.

So it all depends on what the law is or in this case the contract. Which states members are responsible for their guests.

 

[Sammie]

Come On! Not to pick on Sammie but DVC resorts are run as a Hotel. Anyone regradless of who you are can pay cash and stay at any of these resorts. If you want to make it your "home away from home" demand that DVC close the door on such reservations. Demand that only DVC owners and their guest can stay. Make it so that only reservations on the points system can be made and then, maybe you can call it your "Home away from Home".

I agree that I don't think DVC's position, that the member is responsible for the guest purchases while staying at the resort, would stand up in court. I think the matter will be settled on Monday and I'll be adding the "Guest cannot charge anything to room" clause in any future points that I plan to rent.

Y-ASK

Why should this affect what I consider as my home away from home.

My point was I don't rent. I am not comfortable being responsible for people I do not personally know. I am not real comfortable being responsible for some of the people I do know.
But my interpretation of " home away from home" does not have to fit your description. I would never house swap, but people do it all the time and with total strangers.

 

[diesel]

Well I contacted Member Accounting today and didn't get very far. They are adament that I am responsible for the bill whether there was a problem with the credit card or not. When I asked why I was not contacted about having my account put on hold the woman said that they have thousands of holds and don't have time to contact all of the members.

Oh well there's really not much else I can do just wait until they contact my BIL or he gets a hold of them. Until then my account is on hold and I"ll have to wait to make my May reservations.

Just chalk this up to a lesson learned. Thanks for everyone opinions and input on this issue.

diesel

 

[cruise-o-matic]

Wow, this thread is really heated.

Here is my take on the matter: Mr. Jones rents to Mr. Smith. As the DVC owner, Mr. Jones has to trust Mr. Smith that he will not trash the unit or run up "room" charges, such as phone, room service or mousekeeping, then skipping out on the bill.

Wheras the ability to charge to one's KTTW is NOT inherent to occupancy of the room. So when Mr. Smith checks in, he is then asked if he wants to be able to make charges to his KTTW. If Mr. Smith agrees, he gives Disney some type of collateral, ie cash or CC. At this point, the ability to charge to the KTTW becomes a private transaction between Mr. Smith and Disney. I just don't see how Mr. Jones can be held liable when he is not privy to this transaction. Especially, when it is Disney's fault for not charging (or timely charging) the CC on file.

 

[cruise-o-matic]

Well I contacted Member Accounting today and didn't get very far. They are adament that I am responsible for the bill whether there was a problem with the credit card or not. When I asked why I was not contacted about having my account put on hold the woman said that they have thousands of holds and don't have time to contact all of the members.

Oh well there's really not much else I can do just wait until they contact my BIL or he gets a hold of them. Until then my account is on hold and I"ll have to wait to make my May reservations.

Just chalk this up to a lesson learned. Thanks for everyone opinions and input on this issue.

diesel

Sorry to hear about that. It's a shame they are too lazy to send out a notice. I hope you weren't at a critical juncture, like a 7 or 11 month window, or worse yet a banking deadline.

Fortunately for you, you rented to a BIL who will reimburse you for the charges.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Wow, this thread is really heated.
Wheras the ability to charge to one's KTTW is NOT inherent to occupancy of the room. So when Mr. Smith checks in, he is then asked if he wants to be able to make charges to his KTTW. If Mr. Smith agrees, he gives Disney some type of collateral, ie cash or CC. At this point, the ability to charge to the KTTW becomes a private transaction between Mr. Smith and Disney. I just don't see how Mr. Jones can be held liable when he is not privy to this transaction. Especially, when it is Disney's fault for not charging (or timely charging) the CC on file.

This is the main issue. If the policy is the member is responsible, then Disney must give the member the absolute ability to not allow KTTW card transactions for member guests. The member can't be left out of that loop. The member is only providing access to lodging. The member only purchased a real estate interest.

Legally, this seems to be thin ice, which Disney can skate all over...at least until someone takes them to court.

 

[CarolMN]

Well I contacted Member Accounting today and didn't get very far. They are adament that I am responsible for the bill whether there was a problem with the credit card or not. When I asked why I was not contacted about having my account put on hold the woman said that they have thousands of holds and don't have time to contact all of the members.

Oh well there's really not much else I can do just wait until they contact my BIL or he gets a hold of them. Until then my account is on hold and I"ll have to wait to make my May reservations.

Just chalk this up to a lesson learned. Thanks for everyone opinions and input on this issue.

diesel

I'm sorry this is happening to you - thank goodness your BIL will take care of the bill. Thanks for posting your experience here and letting us all know about it.

Best wishes -