Is this legal for DVC to do?

[Cindy72]

This is certainly eye opening. Is there a way to make it so that the people we rent to can't attach a credit card to the room key?

 

[dianeschlicht]

This is certainly eye opening. Is there a way to make it so that the people we rent to can't attach a credit card to the room key?

You obviously did not read the thread. No, one of the requirements at check in is that you MUST leave a credit card number. You don't have to charge anything on it, but you must leave it for things like phone calls etc. The person checking in can specify that it not be used, and they would then not be able to do express check-out, but Disney will not (or has not at this point) put a non charging limit on ANY guests, including renters.

 

[Dan Murfman]

No, one of the requirements at check in is that you MUST leave a credit card number. .

Well as a DVCer for 7 years I have NEVER left a credit card with the front desk. And the reason I haven't is I don't have a credit card.

 

[vascubaguy]

You aren't required to put down a credit card or anything, unless you want to do express-checkout and/or have room charging priveledges outside of the resort (for shopping, etc).

 

[crisi]

I think Dan is right, you don't need to leave a credit card. If you don't leave a credit card you won't have room charges on your room key, but you can still rack up phone charges, room service, pay movies, etc.

Disney doesn't have a way for the member to say "don't allow room charges on this reservation." And it isn't in their best interests to do so, since they are interested in making it as easy as possible for people to spend their money and this is a wonderfully low risk situation for them.

But, Diane, I think you did hit the nail on the head. If, for some reason, their are charges left on the account that cannot be charged, Disney moves the responsibility for those charges over to the renting agent. If the guest booked through CRO, then the bad debt becomes the resorts division's problem. If the guest booked using DVC points, the owner of those points is going to get the responsibility. From Disney's point of view, you may not have been staying in the room, but it was still your room.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Well as a DVCer for 7 years I have NEVER left a credit card with the front desk. And the reason I haven't is I don't have a credit card.

Okay, I guess we have always left the credit card, but have never put charges on it. We do that so we can have express check-out. I guess the reason we are required is because of the express check-out.

 

[dianeschlicht]

(snip)
But, Diane, I think you did hit the nail on the head. If, for some reason, their are charges left on the account that cannot be charged, Disney moves the responsibility for those charges over to the renting agent. If the guest booked through CRO, then the bad debt becomes the resorts division's problem. If the guest booked using DVC points, the owner of those points is going to get the responsibility. From Disney's point of view, you may not have been staying in the room, but it was still your room.

That's what several of us have been trying to say all along, but I guess we didn't find the right words before. I wouldn't like it if DVC derferred unpaid credit bills to my account, but I would certainly understand why, if I made the reservation, that might happen. Way back in '97 when we purchased, my DH took that clause to mean "DVC discourages renting". He said that all along, and he has always thought it was too great a risk. Only once have we reserved a room for someone else when we were not also there, and that was to the winner of an auction from our son's private high school fund raiser. We weren't too worried about folks who could afford to use the school, and were quite sure they were not only responsible, but honest. It is the one and only time we made a ressie for someone else. We have lots of guests, but they are always along with us on a trip.

 

[PamOKW]

The DVC member bears responsibility for any use of the room.

If we say that Disney takes on the responsibility for credit card use because they accepted the credit card, then we could also say Disney bears the responsibility for any damage that person causes because they let the person use the room. Disney/DVC in both cases is just allowing a member to use their membership and the benefits. They do not inquire whether the person is a renter, son, daughter, BIL, etc. Heck, just because it's a different last name doesn't mean it couldn't be the spouse of the owner.

I don't know whether or not DVC will start taking advance directives on whether or not to allow credit card use -- my guess is they don't want to get into that level of administration. What a member can do is be sure to know how to get into contact with anyone who uses their membership. The OP knows there's a problem related to his BIL's stay. He can now get in touch with his BIL and have him resolve the problem. Disney doesn't keep long-term track of guests of guests -- that's why the member is the party ulimatley responsible.

How Disney handles a non-DVC guests that they themselves allow to rent doesn't have much bearing on how they handle DVC member reservations. A DVC member who pays with cash and has an outstanding bill would also have their account placed on hold. A non-DVC member Disney rented to would have their home address etc. on file and Disney would pursue them directly.

 

[vascubaguy]

The DVC member bears responsibility for any use of the room.

If we say that Disney takes on the responsibility for credit card use because they accepted the credit card, then we could also say Disney bears the responsibility for any damage that person causes because they let the person use the room. Disney/DVC in both cases is just allowing a member to use their membership and the benefits. They do not inquire whether the person is a renter, son, daughter, BIL, etc. Heck, just because it's a different last name doesn't mean it couldn't be the spouse of the owner.

I don't know whether or not DVC will start taking advance directives on whether or not to allow credit card use -- my guess is they don't want to get into that level of administration. What a member can do is be sure to know how to get into contact with anyone who uses their membership. The OP knows there's a problem related to his BIL's stay. He can now get in touch with his BIL and have him resolve the problem. Disney doesn't keep long-term track of guests of guests -- that's why the member is the party ulimatley responsible.

How Disney handles a non-DVC guests that they themselves allow to rent doesn't have much bearing on how they handle DVC member reservations. A DVC member who pays with cash and has an outstanding bill would also have their account placed on hold. A non-DVC member Disney rented to would have their home address etc. on file and Disney would pursue them directly.

If charging priveledges for all purchases just a regular benefit of staying on property (regular meaning it didn't require any further action to establish the priveledge), I would agree that the DVC member should be responsible. However, the problem is that this is a contractual agreement between the resort and the visitor/guest. They say "IF" you attach a credit card to the room you are staying in, "THEN" we will allow you to charge purchases using your room key so that you don't have to carry around your wallet, etc to the parks. At that point, the guest is required to sign that they will be responsible for those charges and agree to allow those charges to be placed on that credit card. Now, if the resort somehow screws up, there was no negligence or damage on behalf of the guest or the owner. The resort screwed up, and IMO that should not be held against the owner who rented. I believe that the resort should contact the guest to resolve and if they are unable to contact, then contact the owner to inquire about contact information.

I still don't believe something like this would hold up in court. It would probably be possible for the member to recover legal fees, court costs, and probably punative damages for being denied access to full membership priveledges.

Again, just my opinion...

Edit: The posts are starting to sound like a broken record... (mine included)

 

[dianeschlicht]

Now, if the resort somehow screws up, there was no negligence or damage on behalf of the guest or the owner. The resort screwed up, and IMO that should not be held against the owner who rented. I believe that the resort should contact the guest to resolve and if they are unable to contact, then contact the owner to inquire about contact information.

I still don't believe something like this would hold up in court. It would probably be possible for the member to recover legal fees, court costs, and probably punative damages for being denied access to full membership priveledges.

Yes, but in the case of a rental or non-member staying, DVC is not the renting agent, and the owner is. Therefore, the owner is ultimately responsible for what happens with that reservation. Sure Disney accepted the card and messed up on the charges getting put on the card, but if they messed up that far, it probably also means they messed up on keeping his other information, and then had no way of even knowing who he was. IF that happened, then the only way they have to get to the bottom of this is to put a hold on the "renting agents" account, and that's the owner.

 

[Dean]

Personally I do not think the question is that simple..... is there a reasonable customer friendly process that includes appropriate efforts to charge the correct party, appropriate notifications of a problem to those involved, and was it followed would be a couple of my question as a process reviewer. Is there a process, how well is it deployed, and how is the success of that process measured and evaluated for cycles of improvement. Seems like there is opportunity to improve.

If your only asking whether Disney should eat the charges, I would agree they should not eat charges lie these. However, the situation the OP described isn't that simply IMO.

It is ultimately that simple. Are there in between options, sure, but at the end of the day it comes down to whether Disney would eat the charges or go back to the member. And as you agree, ultimately Disney would go back to the member if not resolved otherwise and they would then be responsible. How they should handle it in between such as call the guest, look for the CC info, etc; is simply beating around the bush at this point.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

There are things we know and things we don't know. There are known knowns and unknown unknowns. There are known unknowns and unknowns that we know......

We know Disney makes the member responsible for WDW shopping and restaurant bills.

The known unknown is whether a court would have the same intupretation of that part of the contract. Disneys way may not always do what's "legal" as a court may see it.

 

[DizneyNutz]

I'm with you. The BIL KNEW that he owed money---why doesn't he just pay you now, you can pay WDW and be done with it. That said, I understand your frustration...makes me NEVER want to rent out points, even to a family member, because ultimately, you are the "responsible party" and if something goes south, you're the one WDW is going to be looking at, and frankly, I didn't buy in to DVC for more aggravation in my life......

 

[Dean]

There are things we know and things we don't know. There are known knowns and unknown unknowns. There are known unknowns and unknowns that we know......

We know Disney makes the member responsible for WDW shopping and restaurant bills.

The known unknown is whether a court would have the same intupretation of that part of the contract. Disneys way may not always do what's "legal" as a court may see it.

No doubt and same could be said for anything that's not absolutely black and white, and really even then. But the member would have their points tied up the entire time. Can't use them, can't bank them and given this might take 2-3 years or more, this could be quite an issue. Whether DVC would back off in this situation is really more to the point. My guess is they wouldn't but you never know. No reason to find out unless you're in a no win situation. And really no way to absolutely protect oneself completely.

 

[ralphd]

No doubt and same could be said for anything that's not absolutely black and white, and really even then. But the member would have their points tied up the entire time. Can't use them, can't bank them and given this might take 2-3 years or more, this could be quite an issue. Whether DVC would back off in this situation is really more to the point. My guess is they wouldn't but you never know. No reason to find out unless you're in a no win situation. And really no way to absolutely protect oneself completely.

I agree Dean!

 

[cruise-o-matic]

No doubt and same could be said for anything that's not absolutely black and white, and really even then. But the member would have their points tied up the entire time. Can't use them, can't bank them and given this might take 2-3 years or more, this could be quite an issue. Whether DVC would back off in this situation is really more to the point. My guess is they wouldn't but you never know. No reason to find out unless you're in a no win situation. And really no way to absolutely protect oneself completely.

Unfortunately, no matter how much we cry unfair, this is probably the real truth...the PITA factor will probably keep one from pursuing this issue legally.

 

[PamOKW]

Also keep in mind that Disney or DVC wouldn't "eat" the charges. They would add them into next year's budget for all the members to "eat". I prefer they hold individual members fully responsible for the actions of their "guests".

 

[CarolMN]

Also keep in mind that Disney or DVC wouldn't "eat" the charges. They would add them into next year's budget for all the members to "eat". I prefer they hold individual members fully responsible for the actions of their "guests".

Me, too!

Best wishes -

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

I say the Resort/WDW operations should pay. Almost all of the spending that occurs on a room charge is unrelated to DVC operations. Why would DVC have to cough-up for defaults on CC and Disney accounting errors??

DVC should focus on charging members for damage done/clean-up required to the DVC units instead of trying to stick-it-to the rare member for a guest's park passes/shopping that happened to be charged to their room key and guaranteed by the guest's personal CC.

Does anyone ever recall a Dis post about a member being charged or an account hold for anything realted to unit clean-up or damage? I don't recall any.

 

[Beach_Bound9]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like we are gaining any new information in this thread, just people taking stances. Oh well....