Is this against the rules

[aribelle]

As far as I know, Disney doesn't do a background check when they rent the campsite, so no way. If you're gonna rent the site for bennies, then offer the extra bedroom to whomever would have rented the campsite. My guess is it's not ever gonna happen.

Well, let's turn that around then......how about since OP only wants the benefits of a campsite and YOU want to stay there....and someone said that you can have 10 people at a campsite, how about you put OP on your campsite KTTW cards....I'm sure he'd be willing to pay you the $42, or maybe only half since you're sharing. Would you be willing to help him get what he wants, and yet still get what you want...that another family be turned away because OP paid for a site.

But....I'm also having trouble here now with the argument that these campsites are all booked up. Just for giggles, I plugged in an arrival date of next Saturday.....I think everyone will agree that this is the height of the busy season right???? Well, I was shown availablity at a cost of $478 for a week long stay at the campsite from July 12 to July 19. So slightly higher cost than OP's $42, but available.

I also thought back to my friends who camp (I don't) and know that they often go in September when it's a bit cooler, but not too cold for outdoor sleeping. So I checked availablity for Labor Day time.....the Saturday before Labor Day to the Saturday after.....again, available during what is again likely a busy time at Disney. Oh, and the week after that as well. Both of these weeks were $42 a night.


Not sure when OP was planning to go, but if there is availability in the busiest month of the year, when exactly it is so booked up that OP would be denying another family a campsite?? Oh, I'm sure there are times.....but it appears that it's not as if it's so booked up that you need to jump in and get your reservations a year in advance.....two random times, during busy times in the parks, and there is a week long availablity and one is a week from today the other 2 months from today.

So perhaps the argument that you can't get a site is based more on WHEN you want to go than on overall ability. Maybe all OP would be doing is making you change to a different week if even that?

 

[Maxie86]

I don't usually respond to threads like this, so I won't give an opinion one way or the other. I have read about doing this in a guide book several years ago. This is not new, and I am sure Disney knows all about it, and would put a stop to it if they wanted to. That said, as a pp stated one member of their party could get an AP and get free parking. Other than EMH, there are more perks to being an AP holder than just an on site guest.

 

[asmit4]

Very interesting aribelle! I think that these sites are booked during the most busy times- 4th of july, christmas, thanksgiving, easter....I would bet there is availability just about every other time. I haven't checked but given what you just said about booking even NEXT week, it would seem to me that this is the case.
Being that I personally would never travel to DW during these times, my booking a value during value season for naps and benefits, wouldn't really come down to depriving a family that can only afford a value not getting a spot. In addition, if someone chose to do the same at FW, they would also at this point not be depriving a family. I can't believe that FW is so wide open!

Maybe lots of these empty sites people are talking about are just that- empty.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

Well, let's turn that around then......how about since OP only wants the benefits of a campsite and YOU want to stay there....and someone said that you can have 10 people at a campsite, how about you put OP on your campsite KTTW cards....I'm sure he'd be willing to pay you the $42, or maybe only half since you're sharing. Would you be willing to help him get what he wants, and yet still get what you want...that another family be turned away because OP paid for a site.

You know, I'm a pretty well educated guy and I've read this paragraph 3 or 4 times and it still makes no sense to me.

 

[auntie]

We have a member of our forum who has been trying to make reservations for a Fourth of July Grand Gathering. She has been unable to do so. Fort is filled. Only it's NOT. There are reports of empty sites in many of the loops. These aren't no shows...these are done by people who are skirting the system to get the perks. I suppose until Disney does put a policy in place to prevent it..it's going to happen.
I personally feel this is becoming more of an issue, with Disney raising the rates at the resorts. While I've known about the practice for some time...and I'm sure as many have stated, that Disney is aware, I feel it's become MORE of an issue in recent months. I mean some $400.00 for the Poly? Being a family of five we've stayed there..only is it worth some $400.00 a night? I think not. Many families who have to pay for two rooms or the expense of a Deluxe are being forced to look off property. It may be that before it was an irritant..but didn't occur often enough to have a policy regarding it. Only in recent times the decision by many to look else where for accomodations is having a more significant effect on the campground guests. By booking a campsite in addition to their off site rental they are getting the best of both worlds. While, again..it's not against the rules, and no..the Disney Police aren't going to swoop down and arrest you, it is causing a problem for those who camp. It's the campers who are having to deal with the choice made by someone to stay OFF SITE. Now there are those who say.."who cares..you paid for it...use it anyway you like"...and then maybe...just maybe a thread like this might enlighten one person who didn't realize the ramifications of this choice and do the right thing. Just because it is the right thing. They might even feel good about it.
Or not.

 

[aribelle]

You know, I'm a pretty well educated guy and I've read this paragraph 3 or 4 times and it still makes no sense to me.

I'm sorry, let me see if I can say it more clearly.....YOU object to OP's idea because by him booking a site so that he can get the DDP and EMH and free parking he will be taking away your ability (or another family) to stay at Disney, because you are only willing/able to use the campgrounds, right?

So, what I'm saying is that since each campground can hold up to 10 people for $42 (in September, $60something in July)....I'm saying you and your family book the campsite....split the cost with OP and put him on your KTTW cards, in other words, OP would be sharing YOUR vacation home. THen OP gets what he wants, you get what you want, and everyone is happy, right?

You were asking OP to share his couch or spare room with a family who couldn't stay at the campground because he was taking up space he wasn't using....I'm simply suggesting that you do the same. Let him "stay" at your campsite and get the benefits he desires, then no campsite would be empty because of him.

Actually, you'd be getting somewhat the better deal....you'd be paying half price for your campsite, yet not having a stranger actually live with you (a risky idea). You were asking him to share, would YOU be willing to do the same?

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

And who cares about the family that could have used the site to enjoy Disney? How could you do this and feel good about it? Because you spent money? Just curious to see how you can justify it?

I'm just wondering why it would be his fault? Because he chooses not to use one of the many benefits available? If he can't get that site and you choose not to use EMH's do you feel bad about him if he wanted that same space and would have been willing to use it for EMH? or DDP? or Magical Express? The other family would be getting less than full-value if they choose not to use any of those benefits, but there's no outrage regarding such.

or is it just selective outrage?

Again, until Disney changes it's rules to mandate that someone actually physically stays in the room/site, it's up to each individual to determine if the monetary cost of booking those accommodations justify the portion of the benefits that his/her family would use.

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

The reason I think this is different is because WDW is more than just the parks. WDW includes the theme parks, the resorts, DTD etc etc. They are paying for a site and using it for its intended purpose.

Is there a definition given by Disney for what the intended purpose of the site is, or is this supposition? I would change my opinion on the matter if there is.....

 

[loco4dis]

We have a member of our forum who has been trying to make reservations for a Fourth of July Grand Gathering. She has been unable to do so. Fort is filled. Only it's NOT. There are reports of empty sites in many of the loops. These aren't no shows...these are done by people who are skirting the system to get the perks. I suppose until Disney does put a policy in place to prevent it..it's going to happen.
I personally feel this is becoming more of an issue, with Disney raising the rates at the resorts. While I've known about the practice for some time...and I'm sure as many have stated, that Disney is aware, I feel it's become MORE of an issue in recent months. I mean some $400.00 for the Poly? Being a family of five we've stayed there..only is it worth some $400.00 a night? I think not. Many families who have to pay for two rooms or the expense of a Deluxe are being forced to look off property. It may be that before it was an irritant..but didn't occur often enough to have a policy regarding it. Only in recent times the decision by many to look else where for accomodations is having a more significant effect on the campground guests. By booking a campsite in addition to their off site rental they are getting the best of both worlds. While, again..it's not against the rules, and no..the Disney Police aren't going to swoop down and arrest you, it is causing a problem for those who camp. It's the campers who are having to deal with the choice made by someone to stay OFF SITE. Now there are those who say.."who cares..you paid for it...use it anyway you like"...and then maybe...just maybe a thread like this might enlighten one person who didn't realize the ramifications of this choice and do the right thing. Just because it is the right thing. They might even feel good about it.
Or not.

I'm sure this will get a lot of folks angry, but I can't resist this…teachable moment. What you've been arguing here — under the guise of doing the "right thing" or "morality"— is self-interest. "Don't rent the camp site because I (or others like me) might want it." I'm sure you believe you're arguing some great, grand ethical principle, but it's plain old self-interest — the same self-interest the OP is operating under. There's nothing noble about saying "Don't buy something you won't use because I might want to buy it instead." Both positions serve the exact same purpose: What is best for ME?

 

[2goofycampers]

I.

We go during value- and houses can be found for 100 bucks with a pool per night. IF we booked a value too- we'd be able to get DDP, EMH and KTTW cards and numerous other benefits PLUS, we'd be able to use the room in the afternoons for swimming/breaks/naps rather than driving all the way back to the house. I like the house for sleeping and relaxing during non park days.

Why pay to stay at 2 places?

 

[aribelle]

We have a member of our forum who has been trying to make reservations for a Fourth of July Grand Gathering. She has been unable to do so. Fort is filled. Only it's NOT.

Ok, I don't understand this....because I just went back and tried for a campsite immediately.....it will only let me book as early as July 8 (not an availability reason, just when I try to click on July 6 it changes it to July 8 no matter what resort I choose)....but there is a campground available from July 8 to August 6....I stopped trying to extend it more after that, lol.

I even upped it to 6 adults (max adults the pull down has) and 4 kids so that it would be a site that could handle the 10 people you're supposed to be allowed to have.....it did raise the prices but not availablity. With just 1 adult it showed $60 weeknights, $62 Fri/Sat and $42 starting August 3.

Date Rate per Night
Tue, Jul 08 - Thu, Jul 10 $ 68.00
Fri, Jul 11 - Sat, Jul 12 $ 70.00
Sun, Jul 13 - Thu, Jul 17 $ 68.00
Fri, Jul 18 - Sat, Jul 19 $ 70.00
Sun, Jul 20 - Thu, Jul 24 $ 68.00
Fri, Jul 25 - Sat, Jul 26 $ 70.00
Sun, Jul 27 - Thu, Jul 31 $ 68.00
Fri, Aug 01 - Sat, Aug 02 $ 70.00
Sun, Aug 03 - Wed, Aug 06 $ 50.00



So unless I got ahold of the one and only reservation that's available, for almost a month.....there is immediate availabilty. I would imagine that if you called you could book for tomorrow and Monday....I'm guessing since it won't even let me CHOOSE those two dates it's an online limitation.

 

[aribelle]

I'm sure this will get a lot of folks angry, but I can't resist this…teachable moment. What you've been arguing here — under the guise of doing the "right thing" or "morality"— is self-interest. "Don't rent the camp site because I (or others like me) might want it." I'm sure you believe you're arguing some great, grand ethical principle, but it's plain old self-interest — the same self-interest the OP is operating under. There's nothing noble about saying "Don't buy something you won't use because I might want to buy it instead." Both positions serve the exact same purpose: What is best for ME?

you got it!

So....in order for ya'll to prove this wrong, anyone who has a reservation at Le Cellier Candlelight Processional Package, please call and cancel it, because I want to go and you know it's almost impossible to get a reservation. And the fact that I've been sitting on my hands not making the call myself for the last two weeks while I figure out which date we want to go is not a valid excuse....you should not book it until I'm ready and get to it before you.

 

[froglady]

you got it!

So....in order for ya'll to prove this wrong, anyone who has a reservation at Le Cellier Candlelight Processional Package, please call and cancel it, because I want to go and you know it's almost impossible to get a reservation. And the fact that I've been sitting on my hands not making the call myself for the last two weeks while I figure out which date we want to go is not a valid excuse....you should not book it until I'm ready and get to it before you.

But only if you booked the package in order to eat at Le Cellier, or in order to get reserved seating for the processional, but have no intention of doing both. After all, you've deprived someone who would use the complete package, but can't get either because of you.

 

[des1954]

I'm just wondering why it would be his fault? Because he chooses not to use one of the many benefits available? If he can't get that site and you choose not to use EMH's do you feel bad about him if he wanted that same space and would have been willing to use it for EMH? or DDP? or Magical Express? The other family would be getting less than full-value if they choose not to use any of those benefits, but there's no outrage regarding such.

or is it just selective outrage?

Again, until Disney changes it's rules to mandate that someone actually physically stays in the room/site, it's up to each individual to determine if the monetary cost of booking those accommodations justify the portion of the benefits that his/her family would use.

I honesty can think of no way Disney could enforce a rule stating "you must occupy the campsite". It would be a management nightmare! People are going to do this to reap whatever benefit they think they are getting. Yes, these folks are paying for a campsite & not using it - and I suppose that's their privilege.

However IMHO the bigger picture is this.... WDW provides approx. 4200 value rate rooms so that people can stay on property who otherwise would not be able to. This is the market that has to carefully choose how they are going to spend their vacation money. If this market chooses to take their business to another resort off property, Disney is losing $$ even if you do book a campsite you are not going to use. In defense of WDW, there are not a whole lot of places you can go in this world and get the entire package that WDW offers. Such as....transportation, well manicured landscaping, beautiful, clean & well maintained buildings,,,, you get the idea.

So, when people choose to stay off property to save money, that's okay, cause these other resorts need the business as well. However, if say 1/4 to 1/3 of the value resorts sit empty, THAT is a lot of $$$ lost for WDW, and they will re-think their pricing. The "suits" will come up with other ways to fill the money gap; either by charging a rediculous price for parking (as in $11/day - come on), closing some of the value resorts (they did that to Port Orleans in 2002-2003), raising theme park prices and/or food costs. In other words, the guests WILL end up paying in the end. Disney higher management won't lose a thing, including sleep. The big-wig's will still get their mega pay & mega bennies.

That being said, with the down-turn of the economy, escalating gas & food prices, job losses, etc.... Disney will be affected. They were hit hard in 2001 - 2002 because of 9/11 & did some drastic cut-backs. The difference between now and then... Disney, like every other person in America, was caught off guard by 9/11. Now in 2008, they are not. They know full well what's going on in the economy, and they are going to take steps to protect their investment and the investment of their shareholders. The best way for them to do this is to cut out the value related resorts. Unfortunately, the people who can only afford to stay at the value resorts are the first guests to cancel their ressies. Those who can afford $200/nite or more plus travel expenses will still come, but perhaps not as often.

If you book a room off-site, & book a campsite just to get the benefits of an actual WDW guest, this action will trickle down and get everyone in the end. Most campers are not just paying for a campsite. They spend $$ at the restaurant, the snack bar at the pool, the two trading posts, the campfire program, and other places at WDW because they are the traditional "captive guest". If you book a site you never intend to use, you are not as likely to spend your $$ at WDW. You'll hit the truly crappy gift shops along US-192, the restaurants off-site, and other tourist traps along US-192. Orange County and the City of Kissimmee will thank you. Disney will just raise their prices to compensate. So try to keep the "Big Picture" in mind if you plan on doing the campsite booking. Then don't cry in the future because you can afford to stay off site, but you can't afford the price of theme park tickets. Also keep in mind that when Disney raises their ticket rates, the other theme parks follow suit shortly there after.

 

[aribelle]

But only if you booked the package in order to eat at Le Cellier, or in order to get reserved seating for the processional, but have no intention of doing both. After all, you've deprived someone who would use the complete package, but can't get either because of you.

Hopefully your response was in the same laughing vein as my original post.

No, we do want the CP package....we just don't have a favorite among the speakers that will be there during our time....don't even know who they are without googling....so we're kinda waiting hoping the TBA are someone we know and then we'll book, Our first choice is Le Cellier, but I'm realistic enough to know it's not likely to happen, hence my joke.

I've actually been told that what I should have done is book LeCellier for one of the TBA dates, as well as our second choice speaker and then when it's announced, cancelled one. But...then wouldn't I be depriving someone of LeCellier on one of those dates? Not that this is the reason I haven't....I'm just not sure CP is worth paying extra for either.....it's all a wishy washy debate that I keep putting off making a final decision about.

 

[aribelle]

If you book a room off-site, & book a campsite just to get the benefits of an actual WDW guest, this action will trickle down and get everyone in the end. Most campers are not just paying for a campsite. They spend $$ at the restaurant, the snack bar at the pool, the two trading posts, the campfire program, and other places at WDW because they are the traditional "captive guest". If you book a site you never intend to use, you are not as likely to spend your $$ at WDW. You'll hit the truly crappy gift shops along US-192, the restaurants off-site, and other tourist traps along US-192. Orange County and the City of Kissimmee will thank you. Disney will just raise their prices to compensate. So try to keep the "Big Picture" in mind if you plan on doing the campsite booking. Then don't cry in the future because you can afford to stay off site, but you can't afford the price of theme park tickets. Also keep in mind that when Disney raises their ticket rates, the other theme parks follow suit shortly there after.

If someone were paying for an offsite room/house/condo and paying $42 or more a night to get the benefits of staying onsite.....then they'd be taking advanatage of the DDP (paying $42 a night just to get free parking makes no sense, and while some feel EMH is great, I can't imagine it's worth an extra $42 a night is it?)....so if they're paying that $42 extra a night PLUS the $38 per person for the DDP, I don't think they're likely to stop off at Olive Garden for dinner in town....they've already paid, twice, for the priviledge of dining at WDW. So if they're going to be there for 1 CS and 1 TS meal, that's the better part of the whole day really, they'll be buying just as many souvies as the other people. I've visited those ugly souvie shops on I92....dozens of them in fact, hoping for deals and bargains....and bought nothing. It's all junk quality. I even trekked over to the Disney outlet stores in the malls....we bought a game (that isn't in the parks), and a mug to replace one we broke at the house. I could have replaced it with a non disney mug from Walmart, but it was a Mickey Mouse we broke so we replaced it with a cheap Mickey Mouse one. So for me, Disney probably lost out on a $15 mug because I paid $5 instead. But like I said, if my only choice was $15, I'd have just gone to Walmart anyway...or I could have just not replaced it and hoped they didn't notice, lol.

There have been several posters who also said they stay at the campgrounds and yet don't go to the parks....while I can't imagine doing that.....after all we don't go to Florida to visit Grandma (shhhh don't tell). But...those people aren't spending nearly as much money as I in my offsite stay probably spent on food, drinks and entertainment. Are you saying that those who camp don't eat food they bought at Walmart or another grocery store, they're all spending big bucks at DIsney restaurants onsite?? I doubt that.

 

[kimsuenew]

Well, let's turn that around then......how about since OP only wants the benefits of a campsite and YOU want to stay there....and someone said that you can have 10 people at a campsite, how about you put OP on your campsite KTTW cards....I'm sure he'd be willing to pay you the $42, or maybe only half since you're sharing. Would you be willing to help him get what he wants, and yet still get what you want...that another family be turned away because OP paid for a site.

But....I'm also having trouble here now with the argument that these campsites are all booked up. Just for giggles, I plugged in an arrival date of next Saturday.....I think everyone will agree that this is the height of the busy season right???? Well, I was shown availablity at a cost of $478 for a week long stay at the campsite from July 12 to July 19. So slightly higher cost than OP's $42, but available.
I also thought back to my friends who camp (I don't) and know that they often go in September when it's a bit cooler, but not too cold for outdoor sleeping. So I checked availablity for Labor Day time.....the Saturday before Labor Day to the Saturday after.....again, available during what is again likely a busy time at Disney. Oh, and the week after that as well. Both of these weeks were $42 a night.


Not sure when OP was planning to go, but if there is availability in the busiest month of the year, when exactly it is so booked up that OP would be denying another family a campsite?? Oh, I'm sure there are times.....but it appears that it's not as if it's so booked up that you need to jump in and get your reservations a year in advance.....two random times, during busy times in the parks, and there is a week long availablity and one is a week from today the other 2 months from today.

So perhaps the argument that you can't get a site is based more on WHEN you want to go than on overall ability. Maybe all OP would be doing is making you change to a different week if even that?

Are these RV sites you were quoted perhaps? The price you were quoted is not a tent site price (well at least a $42.00 price) and if not, would be a totally different topic than what OP proposed.

Out of curiousity to all weighing in on this topic (pro and con)... has anyone actually called Disney (or emailed) and ask IF this is allowed. If so, morality aside, then the OP would be able, if not... then we would all know for sure!

 

[ftwildernessguy]

I'm sorry, let me see if I can say it more clearly.....YOU object to OP's idea because by him booking a site so that he can get the DDP and EMH and free parking he will be taking away your ability (or another family) to stay at Disney, because you are only willing/able to use the campgrounds, right?

So, what I'm saying is that since each campground can hold up to 10 people for $42 (in September, $60something in July)....I'm saying you and your family book the campsite....split the cost with OP and put him on your KTTW cards, in other words, OP would be sharing YOUR vacation home. THen OP gets what he wants, you get what you want, and everyone is happy, right?

You were asking OP to share his couch or spare room with a family who couldn't stay at the campground because he was taking up space he wasn't using....I'm simply suggesting that you do the same. Let him "stay" at your campsite and get the benefits he desires, then no campsite would be empty because of him.

Actually, you'd be getting somewhat the better deal....you'd be paying half price for your campsite, yet not having a stranger actually live with you (a risky idea). You were asking him to share, would YOU be willing to do the same?

That is the most ridiculous example of comparing apples and oranges that I have ever read. There is absolutely no correlation between what this person proposes to do and my utilizing the campsite I reserve in the way it is intended. Your logic is flawed, but really funny. Thanks for the laugh!

 

[toocherie]

You make a very good point..regarding the bottom line, and those ocuppying the sites for parking and extra hours benefits are not likely spending money at the marina, golf cart rental, or bike rentals. Not to mention the Trading Posts. Also regarding the fact that currently there is no policy against it. I do think the bottom line mentality is the way to go with bringing it to there attention.

But if the reason they're not spending money at the marina, golf cart rental or bike rental is because they're at the parks enjoying themselves there, then does it really matter where the money is spent? Someone who does actually "camp" at Fort Wilderness may not engage in any of these activities either but spend all of their time at the parks. Why does it matter?

When I went to law school our real property professor described an interest in real property as a "bundle of sticks"- if I lease the property from you, then I am a holder of one of the sticks, but you at the fee owner would hold a different, larger stick. Your lender would also hold a stick for its security interest, and the electric company would have a teeny tiny stick for its easement across your property to run their electric line (so would the gas company, water company and cable company)--together, all of the interests in the property comprise the "bundle." I think of the campsite as a similar analogy. Yes, it's a traditional campsite. Yes, it offers certain "park perks" that you wouldn't get at the KOA down the road. Whether someone elects to use the "campsite" stick and not the "park perks" stick is their choice and right. Similarly, someone who chooses to use the "park perks" and not the campsite--they should have that right too.

This whole thing may be a moot point soon anyway--in my local paper this morning there was an article about how many motorhome owners are choosing not to take trips because of the poor gas mileage of these vehicles and the price of gas is making it too expensive to take them out for long distances. And that the motorhome sales business has basically imploded. So, unless someone is local to Orlando, I'm not sure that as many motorhomes will be making the trek to WDW this upcoming year as gas prices remain high.

 

[toocherie]

We have a member of our forum who has been trying to make reservations for a Fourth of July Grand Gathering. She has been unable to do so. Fort is filled. Only it's NOT. There are reports of empty sites in many of the loops. These aren't no shows...these are done by people who are skirting the system to get the perks. I suppose until Disney does put a policy in place to prevent it..it's going to happen.

Well, maybe I'm just crazy but if I was planning a Grand Gathering, I would make sure of availibility of the rooms/sites BEFORE I planned it. I wouldn't plan the Grand Gathering and then try to book rooms/sites around it. And maybe I would have planned it for other than a holiday weekend.