Is 'The Magic' Expensive?

[DVC-Landbaron]

Well, there’s certainly enough in that post to keep my quote function busy for a while. And I may delve into it. But I think we need to clear up a little (and may be a huge) issue first. It has to do with:

My understanding of the Car thing is that Car #1 is 'the magic is as strong as ever' and Car #3 is 'the magic is in serious jeopardy'.

Why can’t something still be strong, but in grave danger? You take your ordinary Superman and put him in a room. Then take a lead box and put that into the room. Everything OK? He can still bend steel in his bare hands? Good! Now, a guy named Lex whispers in your ear that inside that lead box is a copious quantity of (yes, you guessed it) green kryptonite!! Well! I would say that Superman is as strong as ever, but is also in jeopardy. Now a hand is unlocking the lead box. The “Supe’s” situation just changed from jeopardy to serious jeopardy. But as of this moment he is as strong as ever!!!

Greg!! You made this thing up!! Do I have the right take on it?

OK, on to other things.

WoM replaced with TT (+)

You call the replacement of a 15 minute (or so) attraction, very, very rich in AA figures with a somewhat lame (yes in my opionon very lame) ride as a plus? I don’t, but it just may be a matter of taste. And believe me I tried to like it. I tried very, very hard.

Ellen be added to Energy (+)

Agreed. But guess what? It’s time for another!!!

Jeremy Irons replace Walter Cronkite (=)

Fine. Same feelings either way.

Figment Out and now back In at JII (- then +)

I don’t think so. I might give you a plus on the new one over the middle one, but the middle one was sooooo bad, you’d have to reach up to touch bottom!! Over all (from first to last) a minus!!! (according to reports. I’ll let you know when I get back in July!

Horizons flattened and Space rising (+)

I was going to say that the jury is still out, but that isn’t quite right. It hasn’t had it’s day in court yet!!! Why would you automatically give it a plus (OVER HORIZONS!!!) when it hasn’t even been built yet!!! Good God!!! Talk about rose-colored-glasses!!! YIKES!!!!

As the NewK here (New Kid)

This goes with the next one. Bear with me. Keep reading…..

I believe the odds are high that there are more updates like the above on the drawing boards simply because I never heard about any of the changes listed until after the contracts were signed so I suspect there is more going on than I know about

Ahhhh! But we do!! And we certainly haven’t heard anything lately. In fact we haven’t heard squat!!!

My confidence for the future comes from my belief that there are plenty of people in the world willing to pay big bucks to experience the Magic and that there are many thousands of people producing The Magic today

Who are these thousands you’re talking about? The thousands that produced DCA? They thousands that produced Dino-rama? The thousands that left out a good portion of AK? The thousands that built AKL but forgot that you can see a Motel 6 sign from it? Are those the thousands you’re talking about?

Well, come to think about it, maybe there are. AK sure shows some glimpses. But no matter how many thousands want to create that magic, all it takes is one single guy to stop it. If that one guy happens to be the top guy. And that is why I’m in car #3!!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Raidermatt emits another exhaustive sigh.....)
I've tried to explain this before, but obviously still lack the communication skills necessary to at least come to an understanding with the 3's... But, I've got quite a stubborn streak in me, so here goes again...

I know the feeling!!!

Let's say there were 1,000,000 units of Magic at WDW. The net change I see is -100. That's not enough for me to say the Magic has faded. Literally, it has, but by such a small amount it hasn't, practically speaking. At the current rate of decline, it will be eons before the Magic truly fades noticeably.

I understand the analogy. And maybe it goes right to the heart of the matter. The first question I have is, “What in the heck happened to that extra 100 we used to have!!!! Instead of adding we are now subtracting!!! Who’s the lamebrain that started this trend?!!”

Does that make any sense to you? It is the way I think. And it doesn’t matter at what rate we’re moving backwards. The point is WE ARE MOVING BACKWARDS!!!

And my great fear is that the rate won’t stay the same. (not in chronological order) They first took away Mickey head butter. No big deal. Then the chocolates disappeared in EPCOT. No big deal. Then they did away with 20K with no replacement. No big deal. Then they built Pop Century. No big deal. Then they built AK, but only half of it. No big deal. Then they built DCA. No big deal. Then they took away EE. No big deal. Then they didn’t do a damn thing to World Showcase in twenty years. No big deal. Then they cut two to three hours out of the MK in the middle of the summer! For me, that was the last straw!! It was finally a big deal!!!!!! (and there are sooooo many other examples!!)

So, even though mgmt doesn't get it, the Magic is so strong that even the net negative vibe they are putting out hasn't made a dent

So even with the above you still think it’s ‘no big deal’?

Now many things on that list don’t directly affect me. Pop Century I will not even drive by. So for me, it is ‘no big deal’. And many others have no ‘direct’ correlation to my personal magic. It is evidently the same for you. It was only when my precious summer hours were reduced that my eyes started to open to the underlying problem. One of philosophy. The philosophy that drew me to Disney in the first place, as opposed to the philosophy that cut into my personal magic!! And the cause of that radical philosophical change? Anyone? Anyone? Matt! You already said it. Several times!!

THEY SIMPLY DON’T GET IT!!!

And I’m very afraid that the little hundred units of magic, that even you notice is missing, will shortly accrue interest, compound interest. At a very high rate!!! And that worries me, because it will destroy what drew me in, in the first place. And I’ll have no desire to take my grandchild’s hand and walk down Main Street with him, telling him stories about ‘back in the day’.

Scoop!! My god!! I have to agree with you. Good points. But one observation:

Well, anyways, since Captains been back and DK and Stanley have joined Matt and I and Duck, I've really noticed this strange dynamic and thought it worth pointing out. Maybe someone has an idea on this.

Yes. I have an idea. You’ve been posting as DK, Stanley, Matt and in reality you’re still all alone!! (can’t count on the Duck all the time and the Captain…. Well….. the Captain……

 

[hopemax]

Strange indeed how most of Car #1 and most of Car #3 just cannot comprehend the other sides views to the point that we bang our heads against a tirewall trying to clarify.

See this why I posted the link to the personality test. I was wondering how the Car 1s vs Car 3's fell. Of course, only like 3 people responded

I've been wondering if Car 1's tended to be SP's and if Car 3's tended to be NT's.

From the Keirsey website

NT - "They are usually pragmatic about the present, skeptical about the future, solipsistic about the past, and their preferred time and place are the interval and the intersection. "

SP -"They are usually hedonic about the present, optimistic about the future, cynical about the past, and their preferred time and place is the here and now."

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Sorry about not responding Hopemax. I took the test. It turns out I'm ......


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NT

 

[DisneyKidds]

This isn't the stipulation thread, but we have a jumble of crossovers here so what the hey . Mr. Scoops powers of observation (I bet he likes to people watch at WDW like I [and since were the same person that's not surprising], but others would say no one pays $50 to go to WDW and do that ) and a few more posts by the group and a light may have come on.

This is non Disney related so, you know what, I hope we can all agree. If not we might as well hang up the modem line and go home

I stipulate this - a building, structure, what have you, is only as strong as the foundation that it is built upon. Are we good? (and yes, Baron - down the garden path again........)

Now, keeping that in mind........

Why can’t something still be strong, but in grave danger?

It can be . I get you Baron!! There is not the oxymoron here that some might see in having strength and weakness (danger) at the very same time. However, to have the two simultaneously implies that it could all come crashing down around you (the grave part, right?). Sounds a lot like a 'house of cards' scenario to me. Can that be possible? WDW has been building and building. Strong , stronger, stronger. Uh oh, a card a little askew, but we are still ok. Many layers later, another bad card or two, but we still have a Magical structure. The way the cards currently mesh, notwithstanding those badly placed cards here and there, we still have a strong house of cards. The Car #3ers fear though is that that next badly placed card will bring the whole enchilada crashing down around us. How am I doing? If I believed this could I ride shotgun?

Ok, but here is the thing. Somewhere along the line you gave up on the strength and ability for the foundation to keep the structure up . And another thing that we can all stipulate to (I think ) is that Walt built an absolutely bombproof foundation that couldn't have been done better. Isn't that what his philosophy, the 'old' way is all about?

Even if someone outside of Car #3 agrees that at some point in time there may be some 'collapse' of some degree (which I don't think we'd stipulate to), the foundation is going nowhere. In fact, we might even belive that the wonderful strength of the foundation will be enough to keep the entire structure standing tall, however many bad cards are added. We also believe, and I'm still not quite sure where the Car #3 folk stand on this (AK for example), that there have been more 'good' cards placed since the foundation was cemented than bad.

In a nutshell, we have Walt to thank for our ability to remain in Car #1. Add in the growing, learning, making mistakes, producing hits, pluses and minuses, the cyclical nature of business, the divergent nature of Disney business in the post 80's era, etc., etc. - you have an entity that will see some good and some bad, but in the end will always reamin Magical due to the strength of that beautiful foundation. That foundation is a very real thing that no one can argue with.

Now, on top of that, us Car #1 folks have something others may have had but appear to have lost - faith. And, yes, faith alone could be a foolish thing - but faith on top of that wonderful foundation - you just can't put us down .

Lets talk about faith for a minute. Faith is believing without seeing, believing when you have no concrete evidence to actually point to to prove something exists or will happen. So you ask

I really gotta ask!! What, in all the wide, wide (Disney) world, could possibly lead you to that conclusion?

and

Ahhhh! But we do!! And we certainly haven’t heard anything lately. In fact we haven’t heard squat!!!

Well, it is that faith. Foolish alone, but on top of that foundation it is very well placed. Also, you have to admit, as inept as you think management is, can you truely believe that they have absolutely no plans to do anything? and anything they do do will be dodo? To believe that would be foolish. And I could turn your own question around on you.

I really gotta ask!! What, in all the wide, wide (Disney) world, could possibly lead you to that conclusion?

What, because you haven't heard anything. Don't take this the wrong way, but who (no one in particular, read 'generic John Q Public') the h*** are you. Rumors boards sometimes know things, but more often don't. Who are any of us that we think we are in the know. OK, maybe AV has an inside line, but is he in the boardroom? (maybe he is - I'm still learning the players so don't jump on me if I am wrong) Any going concern is going to change and evolve. Even the most inept of businessmen knows this is necessary. Sure, what gets done may not all be hits, we may lose some things we will dearly miss, but management will also add to the Magic - and the foundation will always remain.

That is why I am in Car #1.....and I am an NT (sorry max).


p.s. Baron

all it takes is one single guy to stop it.

Do you really believe that this can happen to Walt's legacy? If you do you'd better re-examine your beliefs in Walt, the philosophy, the 'old' things you hold so dear. However, you have shown me enough that I believe you cannot believe this.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

DisneyKidds, you proving to be a lot of fun. Almost totally wrong, but a lot of fun!!!

However, to have the two simultaneously implies that it could all come crashing down around you (the grave part, right?).

Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! Except it’s a little stronger. It doesn’t ‘imply’ it emphatically states!!!

Sounds a lot like a 'house of cards' scenario to me.

Almost, but not quite!!

WDW has been building and building. Strong , stronger, stronger.

Again, almost but not quite. (I have a garden path too you know!!!)

You see, you hit the mark with the house idea. It’s even better than my Superman analogy. And it’s much better than trying to quantify ‘magic’ in units. So let’s go with it for a minute or two and see what happens.

Let’s start building!!! Disneyland, Traditions, the SHOW, Details, Exceeding expectations, QUALITY!! WOW!! The basics of the very foundation that is Disney!! Cool!! We'll call it - the table.

OK! Time to start laying on those cards!!! Innovative stuff (Matterhorn, AA figures, monorails, etc.) State-of-the-art rides (CoP, Small Worlds, Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, etc.). More cards – WOW rides, Pirates, Haunted Mansion, etc. Time for more cards. WDW!!!!! WOW!! More cards, Space Mountain. More cards, Resorts, the Polly and Contemporary!! Even the Golf Resort (Ooops, did that card line up right. Hmmm. Maybe not). More cards – EPCOT!!! WOW!! That’s a couple of levels worth of cards!!!

More card, but this time we change the dealer. EuroDisney! (Ooops!) That’s OK, more cards, MGM (Ooops again!!). More cards, Floridian, Caribbean (and the full price range covered) Are those cards lining up right at all? They’re really not in danger of falling, but they look a little out of alignment. Anyway - - - MORE CARDS!!! AK – DCA – Pop Century – Dino-rama!!

WOW!! Is that thing tilting! Like the leaning tower! How can that be? We’re being very careful. Fiscally responsible. Trying our best!! But still, the whole thing looks like a gentle breeze will bring it down!! WHY!!!???

Oh my God!!! LOOK!!!

No! Not at the cards!!! At the table the cards were put on!!! The legs are wobbling and the top is warped!! OH MY!! The very ‘FOUNDATION’ has been changed!!! While we were all watching all those cards go on top, someone changed the foundation!! Or philosophy, if you will!!! So no matter how we try to line up the cards, they just won’t go where we want. And it isn’t the cards that will bring the house down, but the weakened, diluted and very much altered foundation that is risking the entire project!!!!

Am I a little clearer?

The Car #3ers fear though is that that next badly placed card will bring the whole enchilada crashing down around us. How am I doing? If I believed this could I ride shotgun?

Change that from ‘badly placed card’ and change it ‘the very foundation’ and you can not only ride shotgun!! Heck!! You can drive!!!!

And another thing that we can all stipulate to (I think ) is that Walt built an absolutely bombproof foundation that couldn't have been done better. Isn't that what his philosophy, the 'old' way is all about?

If it were in the least bomb proof we wouldn’t have DCA in Disneyland’s Parking lot!!!

Any going concern is going to change and evolve. Even the most inept of businessmen knows this is necessary.

Quick!! Someone tell Mike, since he’s one of the most inept there is!!!

 

[hopemax]

Ok, but here is the thing. Somewhere along the line you gave up on the strength and ability for the foundation to keep the structure up . And another thing that we can all stipulate to (I think ) is that Walt built an absolutely bombproof foundation that couldn't have been done better. Isn't that what his philosophy, the 'old' way is all about?

Can you define what pieces you believe make up the "foundation?"

 

[Another Voice]

“And another thing that we can all stipulate to … is that Walt built an absolutely bombproof foundation that couldn't have been done better”

A question: If the foundation was so “bombproof”, why did the company need rescuing by Michael Eisner in the first place?

And if the “bombproof” company can be put at risk once, why could not the same circumstances happen again?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Do you really believe that this can happen to Walt's legacy?

Oh yes!! Not only can it happen – IT IS HAPPENING!!!

If you do you'd better re-examine your beliefs in Walt, the philosophy, the 'old' things you hold so dear.

I have!! That’s why I know a radical change has already taken place. It is the ‘old’ things I hold dear. Ei$ner doesn’t. And I believe in the way Walt built things. Ei$ner doesn’t.

I’m afraid ‘faith’ isn’t going to change that basic fact. What fact you ask? The fact that Ei$ner (and crew) just doesn’t "get it". And don’t take my word for it, alone. Car #1 people also agree!! Ask Raidermatt!! Right Matt? You don't think Team Disney 'gets it' either, do you?

 

[DisneyKidds]

Hey, if we never come together on this, at least the ride will keep us entertained . And it is you, my friend, who has it almost totally wrong .

Clearer? NO!

First off, it seems there are some things we will never agree on . MGM, Floridian (I assume Grand? - remember, I'm new), AK - these woeful mistakes that tilt the universe on its edge. PUH! LEAS! Even if I agree that they are the result of a different philosophy, they are hardly the downfall of Disney. I have tried to get people to play on this before, but you really seem to be saying WDW would be better off without these. Again, PUH! LEAS!! The idea of WDW without these is rediculous. We've been down the AK path enough already and sure, it would have been nice to have BK up front. But AK is still Magic. MGM, come on. I've heard the piecemeal argument. Even if, still Magic. Someday I must hear the diatribe on the caste system of resorts, but if it is as ludicrouse as the idea that AK and MGM are catastrophes that threaten the very being of WDW then I don't want to waste my time . Even if each of these could have been done differently (maybe better, maybe not) they are not mistakes in my book. DCA, Pop Century - you can have them. D-R, could have been better, but it serves a purpose. Throw in cutbacks in hours, EE and the like if you want. I still don't see the 'leaning tower of Disney'. Even worst case, what few true 'mistakes' have been made can be worked upon and cutbacks will come around. Maybe we don't get the same things back, but other things will come along. This is life - things change. In fact, change is the only constant in life . You can say I have no proof, but you have none to the contrary. Yeah, we are in a down time right now. But someone with your experience should know better than to panic during this 'down' time. Keep you wits about you man, use your head, don't panic (grab, shake, slap) !!!!!!

Ok, now that I have that out of my system , lets look at the 'table' - which I really don't see as much different than my foundation, except a table can not be built as strong. I do feel bad here. The mighty Baron has stated that Walt was only successful in fashioning a table . Even I don't believe that .

But ok, table it is for the sake of argument. I don't buy how the stacking cards can have any effect on the underlying table (much less a foundation). So the horrific DCA mistake is in the DL parking lot. That doesn't change DL. All the Orlando mistakes don't change the MK. Then you say it is not about DL and MK, but the 'new' philosophy that diverts creative energy and resources from those staples. Well, I don't see them run into the ground. Most of the changes in the MK are the result of the economy and attendance, and things will come around. Epcot - we've discussed that business model and yeah, it could use some work, but I still don't see the sky falling chicken little .

One thing I see is this. Car #3ers are always talking about the change in philosophy as the downfall of Disney. But it always seems that that change in philosophy impacts the decisions in implementing new parks, building new resorts, upgrading existing parks, making infrastructure improvements, and the like - at least in discussion anyway. There is not really a lot of talk of the 'new' philosophy effecting the 'old' exisitng parks (other than some over due upgrades at Epcot). I don't think the 'new' philosophy is all that detrimental to the MK, therefore the MK's Magic is not in jeopardy. And I will stipulate another thing - MK hours cutbacks and loss of EE are not necessarily a byproduct of the 'new' philosophy. Perhaps they are just a byproduct of the times.

My last post was long - but here was the point, and you have confirmed it......

Car #3ers have lost faith in the ability of the foundation that Walt built to withstand the rigors of time, and keep the stucture, and the Magic, standing.

That foundation is the Constitution of WDW. It is an existing, concrete, 'pen on paper' thing - just like THE Constitution. Rememeber, the Constitution has seen many leaders come and go, it has seen so many changes in society and the people, it has been challenged many times, it has been shown to have some faults, but it withstands the test of time. So too shall the Disney constitution, which I submit is the tangible foundation and not just the philosophy that begat it.

THERE IS THE DIFFERENCE

Car #1, foundation = the tangible things that resulted from Walt's philosophy.

Car #3, foundation = Walt's philosophy.

We don't think the foundation can be shaken, you see the philosohy as gone. Could that be IT .

 

[Bstanley]

It's threads like these that make me wish we were all on some sort of 'Instant Messenger'! The 1 baud nature of the conversation is frustrating...I may have to adopt Herr Baron's technique of longer postings, so much to say so much to do...

I answered somewhat flippantly when the Herr Baron asked why I had confidence in the future of The Magic. I actually woke this morning thinking - "you know, that was a mistake. A serious question deserves a serious answer.". First - I know I need to get a life (if that's the thought that I awoke to), but skipping past my obsession...

1st - there is no doubt in my military mind that Walt Disney was almost singularly responsible for 'believing' into existence the original DL. It is conceivable that without that unique collection of genes, experiences, training, resources...etc...that was Walter Elias Disney there would never have been a DL.

2nd - there is no doubt in my military mind that Walt Disney was one of the luckiest people in the history of the species. Why? Simply because all through history great storytellers have lusted after ways to tell stories - and Walt was the one who was on the ground when all the 'infrastructure' needed to support what is now referred to as a Theme Park (a misnomer IMHO) first came together. The technology, the trades people, the transportation, the population density, the media, an audience who recognized the difference between a collection of attractions and DL, and perhaps most importantly - that audience had enough disposable income to pay for it...

An aside - WD was also lucky enough to have been on the ground for Movies and TV as well. I can only imagine the angular velocity of the great storytellers in their graves all the way back to Thespis - cursing the gods - asking why hadn't they been born in 1900AD?

3rd - there is no doubt in my military mind that since 1955 there have been literally hundreds of thousands of storytellers trained, first directly from Walt Disney, later indirectly at the hand of those lucky few, and even later (now) through study of the work of those who preceded them.

Conclusion:

Even during the present management's tenure (the last 6 years) - not particularly good storytellers, not particularly good businessmen - there has been the creation of a bunch of The Magic. Why?

Because everything required is still there to continue to produce The Magic - the demand, the resources, the capabilities, the people. And producing The Magic is, in fact, the way to make the most money. And even the present management wants that.

Basically I am just as confident that the The Magic will never be forgotten as I am that the Greek Tragedy will never be forgotten.

 

[DisDuck]

Well, I am off to the World in 6 hours (leaving work at 2 then home then to airport). I will let everyone know how the 'foundation' is doing when I get back.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Have a great trip. We'll try and keep them from running us off the road while you make sure your 'over-dusting' of pixie dust is replenished. .

 

[larworth]

Because everything required is still there to continue to produce The Magic - the demand, the resources, the capabilities, the people

I assume we all agree that the fundamental demand for this form of entertainment is still there (if not then a worthwhile discussion). Just don't have the same confidence in resources, and competencies?

With no new baby cows on the horizon there should be plenty of space in the capital spending budget to up their reinvestment in the legacy parks. However, they have made it clear to Wall Street they have very aggressive cash flow targets. I believe these are based on a very conservative approach to future capital spending. The capacity is there, but the need to continue to shore up the equity value will continue to get in the way.

Disney has lost quite a few good story-tellers over the last 5 years with the purges at WDI and now animation. Doesn't look like they acquired all that many good storytellers with ABC. Plus, some of those original framers of the Disney culture (it's not a constitution) have moved on. The culture is surely evolving around whatever current philosphy is being rewared internally.

From a business perspective I have to suspend my faith and look at the odds. If the parks were a tracking fund I wouldn't be worried about the presevation of my capital, but I would be concerned that I'm going to get as good a return as I should be.

 

[DisneyKidds]

If the parks were a tracking fund I wouldn't be worried about the presevation of my capital

I like this sentence a lot (even more so if you substitute 'Magic' for 'capital'), I just forget what car you are in (I'm guessing 2).

Aren't all the Car #3 folks worried about this 'preservation of capital'? The Car #1 folks are not. That is what I was trying to say in my long winded fashion . I should hire you as my ghost writer - my posts could be a lot shorter .

A new definition in your financial terms perhaps.......

Car 1 - Not worried about initial investment, and currently getting bond rate returns at least.

Car 2 - Not worried about initial investment, but little, if any, return is being provided.

Car 3 - Losing initial investment with no reason to believe the bleeding will stop.

Car 4 - Bankrupt

What do you all think?

 

[raidermatt]

First and foremost, have a great trip Mr. Duck!

Hopemax, I took the test and came out as ENTJ...

Scoop, I think you summarized the situation very well. I don't really have any deep thoughts on what it really means, or why its so, but if anything comes to me I'll post it.

I will say that I really think we are closer to being in agreement on most things than it might seem. Really, we are passionate about a common interest, and want whats best for that interest. That's 95% of the battle, its just that the other 5% can get pretty interesting! (I imagine Walt and Roy had some pretty "fun" times hammering out that 5%)

“What in the heck happened to that extra 100 we used to have!!!! Instead of adding we are now subtracting!!! Who’s the lamebrain that started this trend?!!”

Does that make any sense to you? It is the way I think. And it doesn’t matter at what rate we’re moving backwards. The point is WE ARE MOVING BACKWARDS!!!

Baron, that DOES make sense, and I think I should try to clarify something (probably a mistake, but I'll try anyway). In no way do I see any negative trend as a good thing. Were I "in charge" of the whole thing, I'm sure I would be doing some things differently, and certainly doing my best to create a positive trend. I often make little "wish lists" about things that I would like to see happen (not just Disney, but in lots of things). For things that I control, or in which I at least have input, I try to turn these into "to do" or "to look into" lists. But for Disney, they generally just take up space on my hard drive. (I have mentioned some of them in surveys, or communications to the company.) So I am definitely not happy about the trend, and frankly find some of the decisions embarassing (at least I would be embarassed if I had to tell Walt they were MY decisions).

I know this is long, but bear with me... Another related point is the issue of philosophy, oft-mentioned by Baron and AV. The issue of creating Magic and letting it drive business goals vs. letting the business goals drive the Magic. I have no doubt that the pendulum has swung too far in the latter direction. But in all fairness, Walt needed Roy to keep the pendulum from swinging too far to the former. He has said as much, and while a portion of that is modesty, I'm convinced its rooted in truth. Still, while the two philosophies seem diametrically opposed, they can both create Magic. After all, a GOOD business decision includes factors like long-term guest satisfaction. Its just that when making decisions in this way, its very easy to miss some of the less obvious factors that should be considered in any business decision.

So what's my point?

I look at this from two viewpoints:

1- As a guest who is asking if the Magic has faded or is in jeopardy. From this perspective, I don't see the experince being damaged, overall. Yes, there have been some takeaways (not all of which we agree on), but there have also been some adds (again, not in complete agreement on these). Even with a philosophy that focuses on the numbers rather than the Magic, mgmt has managed to tread water. To me, this is what the cars are about. WDW is not heading down the toilet. It will be fine.

2- As someone who wants to see Walt's vision continue, and be all that it can be. THIS is where I see mgmt falling flat on its face. As I said in #1, WDW will be fine, still as Magical as ever. However, it could be so much MORE. Same with the DLResort. As much as I enjoy AK, and can see true effort in the park, I understand how it could have been MORE (and still could be). Rather than just keeping the Magic as it was, it could have ADDED to the Magic in a way that even the most devout cynics would have to stop slinging mud. Even for someone focused on the business of making Magic, a solid business model can be built that supports the "all-out" approach. But alas, mgmt has not gone this route, and for that, they should be flogged. Or just disposed of.

So, for those still with me, THAT'S how I can be critical of current management, yet still ride in car #1.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

I look at this from two viewpoints

Your first viewpoint is the one I feel we must consciously remove from our discussion if we ever want to have a meaningful conversation.

That first viewpoint boils down to nothing more than "hey, _I_ like it," or worse yet, "hey, I think it's still better than Six Flags." Everyone in all the Cars has differing personal opinions; you cannot discuss WDW from that viewpoint without it devolving into a shouting match between cheerleaders and gripers.

I absolutely disagree that the point of the Cars is to organize teams for shouting matches.

Your second viewpoint, on the other hand, deals more objectively with the business culture created by Walt versus the business culture that evolved after he was gone. The pros and cons of those cultures _can_ be discussed without endlessly relating how much someone's nephew enjoyed Triceratops Spin.

I believe that the Magic, the capital "M" stuff, is a direct result of a certain business philosophy; a business philosophy that, while Walt was alive, made Disney unique among their competitors. I believe that this uniqueness was the single most important driver of Disney's success.

I also believe that that business philosophy is gone, replaced with the same business philosophy in evidence at Six Flags, Vivendi, and Enron: "make as much money as you can, any way you can." I don't believe that that business philosophy has _ever_ produced capital "M" type Magic (although it can produce a fun ride, I don't think "fun ride" adequately captures the meaning of "Disney Magic"). I believe Disney has abandoned its unique philosophy, and in so doing abandoned the most valuable portion of its brand identity.

When I say the Magic is fading, I mean that Disney no longer operates by the rules that defined Magic in the first place. When I say that it won't be coming back, I mean that I see no evidence that anyone in a position to do anything about it cares about the old business philosophy any more, they are all perfectly happy confining their magic to the Accounting department.

WDW will be fine, still as Magical as ever. However, it could be so much MORE.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but that's the part I simply can't reconcile. You seem to be saying that the Magic has _always_ been Magical, but could always have been so much more.

Perhaps this is an example of AV's point about people having different baselines depending on the dates of their first visit. I just don't see how anyone could have seen WDW in the 70's and said that that Disney Magic was certainly Magical, but could have been so much MORE.

I don't want to argue back and forth about who likes what; I think that's a stupid waste of time. On the other hand, I think it's enormously important to discuss the business philosophy, both for the sake of Disney's future and, quite honestly, the future of American capitalism. I don't see much qualitative difference between Disney's current philosophy and the philosophy that got Enron where it is today.

Jeff

 

[Dznefreek]

Take a look at the success story of TDS vs the failures of the DAK/DCA business model.

UH. . . TDS was paid for with $$$ from the Oriental Land Company. Disney is great at spending someone else's $$$ but they are stingy with their own. (DAK/DCA)

Is it expensive, of course! Do you get "Magic", of course not. Perception is reality and is the case of WDW the magic is gone!

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

When did this business philosophy change?

Like most huge swings, I think it changed gradually... and I think you've likely hit the most significant shift-points.

Walt's death cannot be underestimated. The creative side of Disney never did recover and never will recover the focus and inspiration Walt provided. And I say that out of awe for the accomplishments of the dead guy, not as an indictment of any live guys. I'm not demanding any new Walts.

Frank's death should not be underestimated. I don't attribute to Wells any kind of Walt-ian creative force, but it seems that he understood how to effectively manage creativity in a modern business environment... how to balance the need for quality products with the need to deliver financial results.

EuroDisney made Eisner afraid of "frontloading" his products, even though that was not the real root cause of ED's early struggles.

Splash Mountain made Eisner distrustful of his own Imagineers.

About four fifths of a billion dollars made Eisner think he must be the best damn executive extant.

All those things together left us with a CEO who believes he's bullet-proof, espouses the philosophy that acquiring and re-labelling is just as Magical as creating, feels "plussing" is an unconscionable waste of capital, and who values stock position so much more than guest experience that it leads some people to the conclusion that he cares nothing at all for the guest experience.

It's not my intention to "demonize" anyone or anything when I call for Eisner's immediate ouster. I just don't think it's in his make-up to about-face and start to re-establish the Magical philosophy. I think Mike needs to be gone-gone before there's any hope of things changing, and I'm not particularly optimistic about things changing unless Eisner's exodus includes a big ol' batch of his corporate cronies.

Jeff

 

[YoHo]

So I don't remember if I've posted in this topic already and If I have I clearly don't remember what I said or what anyone else is talking about, but here's what I think now.

Is 'The Magic' Expensive?
Well DUH.


HEre's something to think about though

IOA and Tokyo Disney Seas.

And I don't care about Japanese Consumers versus American, or Liking Rollercoasters or not. I was just thinking while perusing the Tokyo Disney Seas website how much this Park excites me. IOA which I don't think I'll like has some Pictures that excite me too.

DCA doesn't excite me, Dinorama doesn't excite me.

TDS drips Magic and Excitment regardless of the economics.

Now Here's another thought. I was thinking about Tomorrowland the otherday and specifically I was thinking about how much I enjoy the TTA, but how they really didn't retheme it to fit in. So I thought about what I might do. IT hit me that a great way to theme it would be advertisments.

Specifically I thought about the Chicago El which has entire trains with a single Ad silkscreened on them. or the Portland MAX which has Television ads on them.

Wouldn't it be cool for the people walking about Tomorrowland (not the people riding the ride) if fake advertisments for futuristic appliences, or Holographic news or what have you. I think it would be a subtle, inexpensive addition that would utterly drip with magic.


We won't talk about the improvments I'd make to the ride itself as they are more expensive.

In short, its not that magic is expensive on a piece by piece basis, but it can be expensive when you put the whole thing together.