Is it wrong to spank your child?

[N.Bailey]

Well I have. You just won't take the time an effort to read it. Apparently Scott Peterson is worth more of your time than reading up on alternatives to hitting your own children!

Just to make it very clear...this will be my last post addressed to you. I think the posters here were doing a good job at keeping things civil and respectful. Your presence here has changed the tone and I'm not willing to engage in that kind of discussion with you especially since you seem intent to inflame things by bringing in religion and being hypocritical about it. Good night and God bless you and your children.

Do I need to go back to your very 1st post and show you how respectful you've been in this thread? Remember, parents who smack need better parenting skills? Does that strike a chord with you? That sounds REAL respectful to me.

Hey kettle, you're black!!!!

Now, which book in that mess is going to prove that most inmates in correctional facilities were not beaten as a child, but were simply spanked on the rear end?

Just for the record, you have NO idea why I'd be interested in reading the Peterson transcripts, so you should perhaps keep those comments to yourself.

 

[N.Bailey]

Here is a website you can visit

http://justice.uaa.alaska.edu/forum/15/3fall1998/a_inmate.html

The finding is the result of a survey of long-term inmates conducted by the Justice Center and the Alaska Department of Corrections. The study, which was completed in summer 1998, had three primary concerns: to describe the childhood abuse experiences of a sample of long-term inmates; to examine the issue of a “cycle of violence”; and to discern correlates of abuse which may have an impact on offense patterns or inmate behavior.

Funny thing is, I didn't see any mention of spankings in this list. I'm sure this is one of many sites if you'd want to research it.

 

[poohandwendy]

Whoa..this thread has certainly taken on a different tone since I left last night.

Just to be clear, I think we need to step back and recognize that there is a huge difference between experiencing an occasional spank as a child (which is what most people on this thread have described) and growing up in a violent home.

Just as there is a difference between occasionally being sent to the 'time out' chair for a few minutes and being locked in a closet for hours on end. (which unfortunately has been cited in abuse cases and the parent has called it 'time out' in their defense)

In any case, there is a line drawn that separates abuse from discipline. Of course some step over that line...and I think we all can agree that the results are disasterous.

 

[totalia]

I think its ok to spank sometimes. Not beat the kid but one wack on the bum to remember later (just try to tell me that a 2 year old is going to understand why he shouldnt put a fork in an electrical plug in. Please do tell me how my nephew would have understood that. I'd love to know it) will work wonders.

One quick wack is infinately better than getting fried by a electrical surge because he chose to test your "No."

I'd rather give him a spanking (I've only ever spanked him ONCE because he wouldn't listen when I told him not to put the fork in the wall socket. Turn your back for 2 seconds to grab something from the fridge and the stupid form is gone from the counter. Sneaky little brat).

Yes, sometimes its warranted. My nephew has never tried that again. And I'd rather have him crying for a few minutes than dead.

 

[poohandwendy]

Oh and as far as trying to find a coorelation between spanking and violent criminals, well...it is no secret that there are less parents who use spanking as a disciplinary tool than 30-40 years ago, when it was much more common.

If there is a direct correlation between spanking and criminally violent behavior, then why haven't we seen a drop in violent crime since then? Actually, violent crime has risen in those 30-40 years.

How can that be explained if there is such a direct link between violence and spanking?

 

[swilphil]

We've all had this argument on the DIS before so I thought I would just restate what I've previously written. I believe spanking is wrong under any circumstance. I wouldn't categorize all spanking as abuse: Spanking and abuse are points along a continuum of violence. Up to seventy percent of child abuse cases began as spanking. Once you start down that road you've opened the way for escalation. How is hitting a child ever the right thing to do? I love you...yet I inflict physical pain? .......

Research has overwhelmingly proven that spanking doesn't work! It teaches kids that hitting others is ok. And violence breeds violence...kids who were spanked are more likely to abuse animals and as adults, more likely to abuse their partners. Spanking increases a child's aggressive behavior. If spanking worked so well, then parents would only have to spank once and then never again......

I think your first paragraph illustrates the problem with spanking. Many parents have the good intentions of just giving a swat on the bottom over safety issues, but it escalates into beatings and swats for minor offenses.

It does seem more logical that violent criminals have been beaten as children and not merely spanked, but I'd bet most of their parents had the initial intention of "just" spanking.

I haven't read the entire thread, but has anybody given any valid information that shows there are a high number of criminal offenders who had parents that disciplined WITHOUT spanking? Sandy has put forth a lot of evidence that shows that violent criminals were given physical punishments, but I haven't seen anything except conjecture that shows that there are a high number of violent criminals who were simply put in time out.

 

[poohandwendy]

I haven't read the entire thread, but has anybody given any valid information that shows there are a high number of criminal offenders who had parents that disciplined WITHOUT spanking?

I don't have the answer to your question, but I still haven't seen any evidence that there is a high number of criminal offenders who were only spanked on occasion, which is a much more common scenario. IMO

Everything I have seen shows a history of serious abuse, actually...it looks like sexual abuse is an even higher indication than other physical abuse (from the stats I have read)

Also, we are missing the bigger picture if we use disciplinary tools as the cause of criminal violence when there are so many other factors that come into play. Gross neglect and sexual abuse (as previous mentioned) seem to be big factors.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, if spanking is a cause of future violence...why aren't we seeing a decline in violent criminal behavior? Because there are less parents now that spank than there ever was. Where is the decrease, if that is a cause?

It does seem more logical that violent criminals have been beaten as children and not merely spanked, but I'd bet most of their parents had the initial intention of "just" spanking.

Their intentions are irrelevant. What they actual end up doing is what counts. What you describe is an out of control parent. That is never good, no matter what the punishment.

 

[poohandwendy]

Sandy has put forth a lot of evidence that shows that violent criminals were given physical punishments, but I haven't seen anything except conjecture that shows that there are a high number of violent criminals who were simply put in time out.

And I haven't seen anything but conjecture that shows there is a high number of violent criminals who were occasionally spanked. Sandy has put forth evidence that many violent criminals were physically abused, not occasionally spanked. It is shortsighted to assume that people who spank do not have enough control to not cross over to beatings.

 

[rnd4life]

I didn't vote in the poll but wanted to say one thing. I was spanked on occasion as a child, as were my 2 brothers. We all turned out just fine! I have 2 DS's and yep, they have had their bottoms swatted before but I have never crossed the line between that and abuse. I suffered no ill effects from my occasional spanking and as an adult, before my mom passed away, we were the best of friends and she's the one who punished me as a child when it was needed.

 

[Aidensmom]

It is shortsighted to assume that people who spank do not have enough control to not cross over to beatings.

I completely agree with this.

Yes, some people who spank their children do abuse them, but all people who spank are not potential abusers. Abusers have a different mindset than someone who is spanking their child to discipline them. Abusers act out of anger and lack of self control. Someone using spanking as discipline have consciously made a decision to do so and are doing so out of love for their child.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

I completely agree with this.

Yes, some people who spank their children do abuse them, but all people who spank are not potential abusers. Abusers have a different mindset than someone who is spanking their child to discipline them. Abusers act out of anger and lack of self control. Someone using spanking as discipline have consciously made a decision to do so and are doing so out of love for their child.

In a perfect world no parent would spank out of anger or frustration. In my own personal experience of raising 4 now adult children I can say that spanking did not teach my children anything. The very few times I spanked it was because I was unable to find others ways to change behavior. I consider it a personal failing on my part! There was always another way to change behavior, I was simply unable to think of it at the time. I regret each and every time I struck my children (and I do believe spanking is hitting so I did indeed strike my children). Again, in my case it was because I was too tired or too frustrated to think of a more appropriate and more effective method. I believe spanking can turn into abuse if a parent is tired enough and frustrated enough. I think spanking teaches a child that violence and hitting are the way to solve problems. None of my adult children felt spanking taught them anything positive.

I was occasionally struck as a child. It taught me to fear my father and nothing else. It did not teach me to respect him or even to obey him.

I would ask those of you who do spank to consider other methods consistently for a month and see if there are changes in your child(ren)'s behavior.

 

[Mskanga]

Discipline;

dis·ci·pline ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ds-pln)
n.
Training expected to produce a specific character or pattern of behavior, especially training that produces moral or mental improvement.
Controlled behavior resulting from disciplinary training; self-control.

Control obtained by enforcing compliance or order.
A systematic method to obtain obedience: a military discipline.
A state of order based on submission to rules and authority: a teacher who demanded discipline in the classroom.
Punishment intended to correct or train.
A set of rules or methods, as those regulating the practice of a church or monastic order.
A branch of knowledge or teaching.

tr.v. dis·ci·plined, dis·ci·plin·ing, dis·ci·plines
To train by instruction and practice, especially to teach self-control to.
To teach to obey rules or accept authority. See Synonyms at teach.
To punish in order to gain control or enforce obedience. See Synonyms at punish.
To impose order on: needed to discipline their study habits.

Abuse;
a·buse ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-byz)
tr.v. a·bused, a·bus·ing, a·bus·es
To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
Obsolete. To deceive or trick.

n. (-bys)
Improper use or handling; misuse: abuse of authority; drug abuse.
Physical maltreatment: spousal abuse.
Sexual abuse.
An unjust or wrongful practice: a government that commits abuses against its citizens.
Insulting or coarse language: verbal abuse.

When someone fails to differentiate discipline from abuse , THAT is where the problem starts.

 

[robinb]

In a perfect world no parent would spank out of anger or frustration. In my own personal experience of raising 4 now adult children I can say that spanking did not teach my children anything. The very few times I spanked it was because I was unable to find others ways to change behavior. I consider it a personal failing on my part! There was always another way to change behavior, I was simply unable to think of it at the time. I regret each and every time I struck my children (and I do believe spanking is hitting so I did indeed strike my children). Again, in my case it was because I was too tired or too frustrated to think of a more appropriate and more effective method. I believe spanking can turn into abuse if a parent is tired enough and frustrated enough.

That was my experience exactly. The spanking did nothing to change my DD's behavior (even at 2 years old when it's supposed to work better) and she just shrugged it off. I also found that allowing myself to "swat" my DD easily turned into more than a light swat when I became angrier and more frustrated. I no longer allow myself to spank my DD and when I feel the urge to swat her I walk away instead.

 

[NMAmy]

My dd is 14 yo and has never been spanked. I saw it as hypocritical for me to spend a lot of time teaching her not to hurt others as a small child (no biting, hitting, name calling) by hitting her myself. She has always been given clear expectations of behavior and she has worked hard to attain them through guidance from her parents. She had plenty of toddler temper tantrums but I learned how to head them off much of the time (not by giving in but my letting her know in advance what was expected) and by the use of time outs and later, taking away priviliges.

She's a very polite, empathetic, kind young lady who is a straight A student and a great athlete--I'm very proud of the way she's growing up. So, not spanking has turned out just fine for me so far.

 

[leighe]

IMHO to equate my mom swatting me on the behind when I had a smart mouth with a child being truly abused is ludacris and cheapens the experience of the abused child. My first is due in January and neither DH nor I have a problem with spanking - like many have said - on occasion and when warranted.

I also think it is silly to ask "Well if spanking is so effective why do you have to do it more than once?" I don't know of any punishment so effective that most parents could utilize it once and never have another reason to discipline their child. If anyone discovers it, please let me know - it will make my life much easier once DS or DD gets here.

 

[Aurora63]

My experience (coming from a non-parent teacher here)

Whe I was growing up, I got spanked. My dad would even use his belt (NOT the buckle end) for very serious offenses. I see a big difference in how my parents used spanking and how I see it used now...the major difference is that my dad would not spank me anytime I did something wrong. If he were going to spank me, because, say, I had a fight with my sister at the grocery store, I would be told then and there what would happen at home; be reminded in the car; and then get the spanking. Today, it seems like a lot of parents who use spanking do it too often, and that will cause it to lose it's effectiveness.

Anyway, I think spanking is okay used in certain situations, and the child needs to be warned ahead of time. I am glad my father used it with me, because, the way he did it, he didn't have to do it very often! I don't remember getting spanked once after I was five. I think it helped keep me on track, and that in turn has had a domino effect in my life. I wouldn't say spanking was the "cornerstone" of my well-rounded development or anything, but discipline was, and an occasional, well deserved spanking was part of that discipline.

 

[disykat]

I just have to add about children who are not spanked being non-violent. The most violent child I know comes from a non-spanking household. He is almost 12 and still can't control his arms and legs to keep from hitting and kicking - despite the fact that his parents seem to be pretty on the ball. Because of this, should I conclude that all children who are not spanked are violent - or should I realize that all children are different and there are many variables that come into play?

 

[Goobergal99]

That was the question asked and never answered. You CANNOT know the future and know that ALL your children and in-laws won't ever spank; people have been known to change their opinion regarding child rearing techniques after they have been married and had children. So far, no one has said they would turn in their own children for swatting their kids bottoms. Seems like either it isn't abuse after all or people are willing to look the other way if it were their own family.

Sunni, it's really funny how you are so acusatory without having read ALL of my posts (something you stated in an earlier post) I don't remember ever having said I would turn parents in for spanking their children, I certainly am not calling DHS everytime I see some aggravated adult in the wal-mart spanking her kid on the behind for acting up. I said that I think that it is wrong and unnecessary and that "I" would never do it to my child because "I" feel that it is a nice word for abusing your child. I thank goodness I am not responsible for what you do to your child behind closed doors or in your local walmart but I am entitled to express to the world that I think it is wrong.

 

[sunni]

Sunni, it's really funny how you are so acusatory without having read ALL of my posts (something you stated in an earlier post) I don't remember ever having said I would turn parents in for spanking their children, I certainly am not calling DHS everytime I see some aggravated adult in the wal-mart spanking her kid on the behind for acting up. I said that I think that it is wrong and unnecessary and that "I" would never do it to my child because "I" feel that it is a nice word for abusing your child. I thank goodness I am not responsible for what you do to your child behind closed doors or in your local walmart but I am entitled to express to the world that I think it is wrong.

You are misquoting me. I did NOT say I didn't read all of your posts (I have in fact). What I said was I did not have time to GO BACK and read all of your posts. Perhaps I should have said reread, my apologies.

My question was for anyone that believes spanking = abuse. It wasn't for people that don't like spanking or don't use it, unless they feel it is abuse. I think some people like to call it abuse but they don't really believe it is abuse . Don't people turn in their families and neighbors for abuse? If I knew my brother was abusing his kids, I wouldn't hesitate to turn him in. I don't understand why people see my question as acusatory. Nor do I believe that people here have the gift of foreseeing the future, especially the future of in-laws that they don't even have yet.

 

[swilphil]

In a perfect world no parent would spank out of anger or frustration. In my own personal experience of raising 4 now adult children I can say that spanking did not teach my children anything. The very few times I spanked it was because I was unable to find others ways to change behavior. I consider it a personal failing on my part! There was always another way to change behavior, I was simply unable to think of it at the time. I regret each and every time I struck my children (and I do believe spanking is hitting so I did indeed strike my children). Again, in my case it was because I was too tired or too frustrated to think of a more appropriate and more effective method. I believe spanking can turn into abuse if a parent is tired enough and frustrated enough. I think spanking teaches a child that violence and hitting are the way to solve problems. None of my adult children felt spanking taught them anything positive.

I was occasionally struck as a child. It taught me to fear my father and nothing else. It did not teach me to respect him or even to obey him.

I would ask those of you who do spank to consider other methods consistently for a month and see if there are changes in your child(ren)'s behavior.

You are so right. I can count the number of times I have spanked my 5-year-old son on one hand, and it hasn't done any good. If anything, it has made his behavior worse and makes him hit his younger brother more. The first couple of times were because of safety issues, but then the next time I hit him it was because he broke something that I shouldn't have left out. Sometimes his behavior is a result of him having a bad day, and my spanking him over something unimportant was a result of me having a bad day. I felt awful, and now when get frustrated with him I tell myself that "I'm the adult and should know better."