Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

I think you have to be a real Disney apologist to try and argue that Disney hasn't been resting on their laurels over the last ten years. I think the great work they did over the previous decades out them in such a commanding position.

However the great work that Universal has done over the past few years has overshadowed Disney - with the dual Harry Potter lands (plus quite a few other attractions) making Disney's Fantasyland expansion looking quite embarrassing in comparison.

The problem is though that Disney felt they didn't NEED to spend much money in Florida, so they haven't. Every now and again they 'announce' some new land (Star Wars, Avatar etc.) but nothing happens. Disney are big ideas but short on change - and unless they really feel the pressure of Universal then it'll be years and years and years before Disney does something to really impress us.
 
My family has made the swap to Universal and are more excited every year as we see more and more properties we know and love come to life (I can't even ride the Simpsons ride more than once b/c I get ill, but the area itself is the show I grew up with brought to life - Harry Potter part 1 and 2 are gorgeous - Suessland are the kid's books brought to life, etc)...Universal is everything I loved about Disney in the 90's - growing, changing, exciting, amazing, easy. With Nintendo on board and with a board committed to using their content and bringing it to life, I look forward to many more central Florida trips centered on the Universal Parks (with 1 day trips to others, including MK, when I miss it too much)...the day I get to step into a Super Mario Brothers attraction - boy, if they ever announce that, there will never be a contest again...and I'm a girl (not all of us girls are into the princess thing)...

Certainly understand your feeling, but Disney couldn't do what they did in the 90s forever, as I described earlier. There's only so much expansion you can do before there aren't enough people possibly willing to come at any given time for it to make sense. Universal can do what they're doing now because they aren't close to reaching that point yet. Eventually they will and their expansion will stop as well.
 
I'm not sure what the point is. That type of construction was possible because there was room for growth. At this point, there's only so many more people that can possibly be lured to WDW at any given time. If they continued to build at that pace, they'd have 8+ gates now, 30 hotels, and they'd all be 1/4 full and the parks division would be bankrupt.

The problem with that list is that roughly half of those attractions are either a shell of what they were, have closed or are in some state of mediocrity/disrepair. So another build cycle of a similar scale would not result in the need for 4 more gates. It would help to fill the existing 4 that they currently have, 3 of which are in need of major attention.

Yes - Disney is currently in the midst of another build cycle. However, it's a result of a 10-15 year period of complete stagnation all while dishing out massive price increases. And if it wasn't for UO's recent power plays, I doubt we'd be getting 1/5th of what's currently in the works.
 
Endlessly? Never replace, just continue to add new rides. Sounds like a business plan that ends with massive parks that go bankrupt.

Not endlessly. How about more strategically. Maelstrom was a popular ride beloved by many. Meanwhile, Future World is sitting in utter decay. Wonders of Life - completely empty. Imagination pavilion - total disaster. Innoventions - half closed, remaining half completely stale. Not to mention shoe-horning the Fantasyland-style ride into World Showcase simply because of a luke-warm, Scandinavian tie in.

Disney has a very challenging balancing act with regard to keeping the "old nostalgic" while mixing in the "new and exciting". I don't envy that position, as you're never going to please everyone. However, it's plain as day (to me at least) that the boardroom simply said "EPCOT needs a boost, we need to capitalize on the Frozen craze... GO!". Absolutely zero strategic planning for EPCOT's long-term success was taken into account. Rather, this is simply a quick money grab while the princesses are still craving Elsa. When the craze dies in the next 2-4 years and everyone realizes that it's the same boat ride with lipstick, we're still left with two thirds of Future World sitting empty and a net zero gain in total attractions. If I could grade the overall decision making that went into this one any lower than an "F", I would.
 
Endlessly? Never replace, just continue to add new rides. Sounds like a business plan that ends with massive parks that go bankrupt.

True - you can't continue to expand forever. However I don't think that's ever going to be a problem with Disney - they develop at a snails pace :D
 
I'm not sure why it has become acceptable to just not fix things.
Economics and profits. It costs more to repair today than it did when it was built That cuts into profits.
Since all people seem to do is complain about the short comings and not follow it up with their buying choices, there is no motivation for the Executives/shareholders of Disney to change.

This is even more exaggerated by the cost. When things could function properly at $25 a ticket why is it they can't at $100. It just feels like the entire theme park operation is becoming how to give the least for the most amount of money.
A good business model (for the shareholder not the customer).
Disney is first and foremost a business. Leadership of the past put more emphasis on the customer with the vision that if they customer is happy, the profits will follow. Indeed it was true and they grew an empire. Current leadership is now dealing with different economics where people are more focused on a Profit than they are with making the customer extremely happy. It's not just Disney, it's business all around.

While Disney of Today is certainly not the same as it was 15, 20, 30 years ago, I think the bar is still very high compared to OTHER businesses, which is more of the mark they are shooting for. I think for them to compete with Disney of 20 years ago, Disney today might break even or have a small profit. Shareholders would NEVER stand for that.


Endlessly? Never replace, just continue to add new rides. Sounds like a business plan that ends with massive parks that go bankrupt.
This was exactly my thought. Eventually you will hit an "End" point. In this case it would be real estate.
 
Only thing I'm going to say about this I wouldn't get my hopes up for a whole lot on Star Wars. We will very likely see an announcement about Pixar additions and a possible overall rebranding announcement but from what I'm hearing is Star Wars will be very vague.

I suspect that even the Pixar expansion will be underwhelming. The consensus on these boards seems to be that the one really great Pixar attraction at DCA (Radiator Springs Racers) will not be built at DHS. The rest of the new Pixar attractions built at DCA are AFAIK kiddie rides like a choo-choo train, bumper cars and so on. I have a feeling that all you're going to get at DHS in the next 3-4 years are the Midway Mania copy-paste, clones of the DCA kiddie rides and maybe a Ratatouille ride cloned from Paris.
 
I have two little Disney fans, and I've more or less converted my husband in that last decade. Both my kids would like to live at WDW. We own DVC, we go to WDW every year, sometimes more than once a year. Neither my kids nor my husband hover on message boards reading about how much hasn't changed, or hasn't changed fast enough. Yes, DH has been known to wonder "aren't they done with that yet?", but really, even going every year, WDW still has a lot to offer. And I still manage to plan something new for them to try every single trip.

MK has more than enough to entertain us. DS (age 10) will tell you that he does not care about the NFL additions at all, although in actuality he has enjoyed most of it (although he refuses to do ETwB.) DD (age 4) absolutely loves everything about NFL. Everything. The must do areas in MK for my kids are Adventureland and New Fantasyland.

DHS was actually on the "eh, skip it" list for us for several trips. The only thing both kids could and wanted to ride was TSSMM, and before FP+ we were never there early enough to get FPs. As of this year, they can both do Star Tours, too, which helps make it a more fun park for them. DS liked the Playhouse Disney/Disney Junior show when he was little, and now DD likes it, and they both like the VotLM. They both like the playground. That's about the list of the things the kids wanted to do. FP+ actually put DHS back on our list for our trips, but even so, it's a short day for us. This is the one park that I agree should be an embarrassment to Disney. I am so glad they have a new vision for it, and are going to pump a lot of money into it. It needs it desperately.

Epcot was my favorite park before I had kids. However, the Epcot with truly amazing food and plenty of non thrill rides of my memories is long gone. (I still miss Horizons and the World of Motion. I do not miss Body Wars, which inevitably made me sick.) The kids don't have the patience for an afternoon wandering through shops and looking at displays in WS. But they love "the Nemo pavilion" and both rides in the Land, and they'll put up with Ellen for dinosaurs, and they've come to accept that Mommy is going to make them go on Spaceship Earth every single time we go to Epcot. And, for some reason, they love the Grand Fiesta Three Cabelleros boat ride in Mexico, which no one ever talks about as an addition of the last decade, but is far more engaging than Rio del Tiempo. (Although the last times we rode it, my kids were the only kids around and EVERYONE else was drunk adults. Go figure.) They are both looking forward to the Frozen Maelstrom. Making them pick between FP+ for Frozen and Soarin' is going to be a nightmare, however. My husband and kids like Epcot. We still find more than enough to do. It certainly isn't the embarrassment that DHS is (except for Captain EO, my gosh, just get rid of it permanently), even if it could benefit from some updates. Honestly, if they would either add a new "country" with a ride, or put a solid new ride in any of the existing countries, and redo one of the currently defunct pavilions using the Inside Out characters, I think almost everyone would be happy. (Ok, they are never going to make almost everyone happy, who am I kidding? But it would please many people.)

Animal Kingdom is already on the right track. We're really looking forward to the new nighttime safari and show. We can't wait to see what they do with Pandora/ Avatar. (The movie was fine. The setting is gorgeous. I am sure it is going to be a beautiful addition to the park.) I still wish they'd add Australia, or even the Americas, as a new land. My daughter wishes that the Pocahontas meet and greet would get FP+ because I won't wait in line with her for 45 minutes outside in the heat.

WDW is still wonderful to my family. I'm not someone who is happy about every decision they'd made about the parks. I'm not someone who thinks they can do no wrong. However, I do think they provide a solid experience overall, and that many of the projects currently underway will be good additions.

That said, we went to Universal for the first time a year ago. After hearing about how they weren't good for young kids for so long, we decided to try it out anyway, because we wanted to see Harry Potter. My kids LOVED Universal. (They did not love being woken at dawn to get dragged at a breakneck pace through a park they'd never seen to get in line for ollivanders, and then forbidden journey (which neither of them were going to ride.)) Universal may not have been good for young kids at some time in the past, but that is just not true any more. My kids liked their 2 days at Universal as much as WDW. DS doesn't like thrill rides, DD is too little for many thrill rides, and they still had an amazing time. Honestly, people who are telling you there is nothing at either Universal Studios park for kids have clearly not taken kids. The Barney, Dr Seuss, Curious George, and American Tail areas are NOT aimed at adults, let me assure you. :rolleyes2 Both Universal Parks were great. My kids want to go back, and we're tentatively planning to next year.

Disney lost two days of our business last year, and they're probably losing two days of it next year. That's a pattern that's going to continue to be true. Every year or every other year, we'll probably spend a couple of days at Universal. That's a function of how good Universal is now, not a function of "how bad" Disney is. It isn't that Disney has lost our business, its that Universal has won a bit of it.
 
I suspect that even the Pixar expansion will be underwhelming. The consensus on these boards seems to be that the one really great Pixar attraction at DCA (Radiator Springs Racers) will not be built at DHS. The rest of the new Pixar attractions built at DCA are AFAIK kiddie rides like a choo-choo train, bumper cars and so on. I have a feeling that all you're going to get at DHS in the next 3-4 years are the Midway Mania copy-paste, clones of the DCA kiddie rides and maybe a Ratatouille ride cloned from Paris.

That's a real shame on both counts. I'm a Star Wars nut (you might have guessed that!) and last year when we visited California we were completely blown away with what Disney had done with Radiator Springs. It's kind of sad when you know how great they could be - if they really needed to be!
 
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It isn't that Disney has lost our business, its that Universal has won a bit of it.
I think that's what people don't see. It's also competition that makes things better. Universal is trying to get a business share from Disney while Disney is trying to get a buisness share from Universal. These efforts are what make things better for customers. I think if either one was a "Sole" park/theme then there wouldn't be as much improvements (now-a-days) as there are.

. It's kind of sad what you know who great they could be - if they really needed to be!
Sorry, I know it's a fat fingers/fast typing thing but I had to read that 3 times to figure it out. Me thinks you meant: It's kind of sad when you know how great they could be - if they really needed to be!

Just had to laugh (okay and poke fun) at it. :)
 
Economics and profits. It costs more to repair today than it did when it was built That cuts into profits.
Since all people seem to do is complain about the short comings and not follow it up with their buying choices, there is no motivation for the Executives/shareholders of Disney to change.

A good business model (for the shareholder not the customer).
Disney is first and foremost a business. Leadership of the past put more emphasis on the customer with the vision that if they customer is happy, the profits will follow. Indeed it was true and they grew an empire. Current leadership is now dealing with different economics where people are more focused on a Profit than they are with making the customer extremely happy. It's not just Disney, it's business all around.

While Disney of Today is certainly not the same as it was 15, 20, 30 years ago, I think the bar is still very high compared to OTHER businesses, which is more of the mark they are shooting for. I think for them to compete with Disney of 20 years ago, Disney today might break even or have a small profit. Shareholders would NEVER stand for that.



This was exactly my thought. Eventually you will hit an "End" point. In this case it would be real estate.
I know at least one family of shareholders that would prefer they actually operate the park rather than just chase profits. Chasing customers can lead to profits. Chasing profits can lead customers to other places.
 
I know you're being sarcastic but I'm betting a large population won't get your point.
I'm not. The frozen ride coming to Norway is still a boat ride costing 75 million. Chump change compared to the 450 million frozen land that Tokyo is getting. Because of the success of this movie it deserves a new e ticket attraction not a layover of an existing boat ride.
 
You think they'll wait for The Force Awakens to release before announcing all the details? Regardless, I'm fully confident the big announcement will come at D23, even if it's vague on SW until a few months later.
Yes based on what I've heard I think they'll wait on Star Wars details but announce other things.
 
I suspect that even the Pixar expansion will be underwhelming. The consensus on these boards seems to be that the one really great Pixar attraction at DCA (Radiator Springs Racers) will not be built at DHS. The rest of the new Pixar attractions built at DCA are AFAIK kiddie rides like a choo-choo train, bumper cars and so on. I have a feeling that all you're going to get at DHS in the next 3-4 years are the Midway Mania copy-paste, clones of the DCA kiddie rides and maybe a Ratatouille ride cloned from Paris.
I think we will get a cars ride tho, don't think it will be RSR but cars should still have a presence. Toy story seems to be the big one here. The assumption is toy story playland plus a little more but hey maybe they surprise us.
 
Unlike Universal, Disney has a boatload of intellectual property that they have yet to cash in on. That's what a lot of the new HS will be centered around. Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, etc. Universal can build a better park, but they won't be able to touch Disney in terms of drawing the younger crowd, especially.
 
Unlike Universal, Disney has a boatload of intellectual property that they have yet to cash in on. That's what a lot of the new HS will be centered around. Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, etc. Universal can build a better park, but they won't be able to touch Disney in terms of drawing the younger crowd, especially.
The new DHS will not have marvel.
 
I know at least one family of shareholders that would prefer they actually operate the park rather than just chase profits. Chasing customers can lead to profits. Chasing profits can lead customers to other places.
I don't dispute this for a minute. I agree. The problem is, is that so many businesses would rather chase a few cents more in profit per customer, than take a few cents less and spread it across more customers.

This creates a cycle (like a roller coaster) of highs and lows where they end up flipping back and forth.

I suppose it's akin to winning the powerball. Do you take the big payout NOW (losing about half) or do you take a smaller payout, but more overall over the long haul.
 
















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