Is Bob Chapek ruining the Parks experience?

[ajiuo]

let’s go Chapek!

 

[k5xs]

"Perhaps to some a bus ride that takes 2.5 hours and requires you to lug your baggage compared to a direct ride in a fraction of the time is a benefit. Disney doesn't see it that way - they are back to what Mears did prior to ME and they have no interest in offering that as it's overall a negative to the brand. Any way you choose to slice it, the decision to cut magical express was not related to cost to Disney, but feasibility of the product offering."

We have ridden the Magical Express maybe 20 times, and to a wide selection of WDW resorts (including those at the end of multiple-stop routes). Not once did it take us 2.5 hours, including queue time. But that's just our experience. As for requiring guests to "lug your baggage," we no more "lug" for DME than we do for Uber. We take it to the side of the DME vehicle and the operator stows it for us.

Can you share some insight that supports your assertion that "the decision to cut magical express was not related to cost to Disney"? I'm happy to have my mind changed, but it surely seems to me that decision is aligned with several recently made that coincidentally reduce value while conveniently and apparently reducing costs.

"Semantics. I understand your point of view. I am just saying that I consider having that distinguishing perk a POSITIVE for me. I was honestly frustrated and upset when they extended those perks to good neighbor hotels. My point being that there are differing views and where there are differing views, you can't say with certainty that the decision is bad for the brand unless you have empirical evidence that shows it's 10-1 against. Do you?"

I get your point that extending perks to moderate and value resorts diminishes its value to deluxe resorts. But I'm not sure where you get the notion a decision is bad for the brand only when one has empirical evidence that shows it's "10-1 against." Please explain. I'm an engineer, not a marketing type.

"I am certain he does get reports. But I still think it's dubious to state that a significant number of guests are upset by the latest offerings of after hours parties compared to previous years offerings. Do you have any data to back up that theory other than the squeaky wheels of social media which makes up a very small percentage of guests?"

I have only what everyone has: our personal views and anecdotal evidence. But I can say unequivocally that in 30+ years of regular park attendance, I have not sensed people more upset than they are now. It's not just about the after hour parties (but the Boo Bash was NOTHING compared to Mickey's Not So Very); to my thinking it's about the totality of the reductions in value: resort parking fees, elimination of complimentary FP+, removal of complimentary PhotoPass from APs, ticket prices increasing at far more than the rate of inflation, AP price increases, food price increases, resort price increases, Disney Magical Express termination, no trams, mousekeeping cut-backs, etc.

I feel like (maybe incorrectly) Disney, instead of using the pandemic as an opportunity to build goodwill with guests, has instead used it to push through changes it's wanted to do for a while, exploiting the crisis. It could have very publicly announced it was holding the line on ticket prices, resort prices, food prices, etc. "to help our guests who we know suffered during the pandemic," but it has chosen not to.

I don't think anyone knows where this all leads. Maybe Disney will see a beneficial crowd-reducing reduction in attendance with higher margins, and a net positive. Or maybe the demand will drop enough to negatively affect their bottom line. Who knows.

I do know that I feel like the magic is being sucked out, and it appears to be a result of cold corporate financial calculation.

 

[bsmcneil]

Perhaps to some a bus ride that takes 2.5 hours and requires you to lug your baggage compared to a direct ride in a fraction of the time is a benefit. Disney doesn't see it that way - they are back to what Mears did prior to ME and they have no interest in offering that as it's overall a negative to the brand. Any way you choose to slice it, the decision to cut magical express was not related to cost to Disney, but feasibility of the product offering.



Semantics. I understand your point of view. I am just saying that I consider having that distinguishing perk a POSITIVE for me. I was honestly frustrated and upset when they extended those perks to good neighbor hotels. My point being that there are differing views and where there are differing views, you can't say with certainty that the decision is bad for the brand unless you have empirical evidence that shows it's 10-1 against. Do you?




I am certain he does get reports. But I still think it's dubious to state that a significant number of guests are upset by the latest offerings of after hours parties compared to previous years offerings. Do you have any data to back up that theory other than the squeaky wheels of social media which makes up a very small percentage of guests?

I notice that your statements are often grand pronouncements of truth and others have to have certain things to prove their worth to you. It could be that you're right. It could be that others are right. It could be both, and neither. I wonder if you would be okay just allowing people to have opinions.

My sense is that there was a cultural shift when it came to brand loyalty, which is why places like Sears have failed. Do I have 10-1 proof that any one of their decisions made that happen? No, because this isn't my job. The thing about brand loyalty, from a marketing perspective, is that it is, in fact, intangible and it isn't built nor destroyed by any one concrete decision. It changes based both on individual's perception and a collective perception. Goodwill that has been built up over generations can, and has, dissipate really quickly (and that was pre-covid - and I don't think we've begun to understand how Covid has changed our consumer behaviors yet).

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Any way you choose to slice it, the decision to cut magical express was not related to cost

This seems extraordinarily unlikely.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Can you share some insight that supports your assertion that "the decision to cut magical express was not related to cost to Disney"? I'm happy to have my mind changed, but it surely seems to me that decision is aligned with several recently made that coincidentally reduce value while conveniently and apparently reducing costs.

This seems extraordinarily unlikely.

As I mentioned (and this is from knowledge of having been one of the leads for one of the companies that worked on DME) during COVID, one of the businesses that supported it went out of business. Another (BAGS) was purchased. Another (Rockwell Collins) was purchased and then that company purchased. There are a NUMBER of processes that are held by patents (BAGS were notorious for filling them). The entire process required special dispensation from the TSA to be run because the baggage on the return side does not go right to the airport - it went to a cross-run facility that was a pretty complex animal of itself with a secure and non-secure side. The employees on the resort side were not even Disney employees - they worked for BAGS.

And Yes, I know first hand where the question was "what will it take to bring all this back" and there was sentiment that without baggage, they had no interest in just running a shuttle service (Mears could do that better and any negative connotations against Mears would not bear the Disney brand).

In other words, the prevailing tone was "we want DME or we don't want to be involved" because they don't want people upset at something they have zero skin in and are only a front for. The bottom line was we could not bring DME back and unless Disney could give a value add, they didn't want to be in the middle.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

And Yes, I know first hand where the question was "what will it take to bring all this back" and there was sentiment that without baggage, they had no interest in just running a shuttle service (Mears could do that better and any negative connotations against Mears would not bear the Disney brand).

I’m sorry, I don’t buy it. If that was really the issue then the Disney release could have been “we can’t bring this service back, but good news, we’re lowering everyone’s rack rate by $25.” There was obviously a profit motive here as well even if your inside sources don’t want to acknowledge it.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I’m sorry, I don’t buy it. If that was really the issue then the Disney release could have been “we can’t bring this service back, but good news, we’re lowering everyone’s rack rate by $25.” There was obviously a profit motive here as well even if your inside sources don’t want to acknowledge it.

Well, you are going to believe what you want, so facts are irrelevant then.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I notice that your statements are often grand pronouncements of truth and others have to have certain things to prove their worth to you. It could be that you're right. It could be that others are right. It could be both, and neither. I wonder if you would be okay just allowing people to have opinions.

Some things like DME I am providing information which I have inside knowledge of. I know exactly why these decisions were made since I was involved to some varying degree. Whether or not people choose to believe the facts I have no control over.

For others, yes - I completely agree are my opinion. My opinion about on-site perks are no more or less valid than another. I was merely pointing out that if there is disagreement, then it's hard to say whether or not Disney made the right call. The OP invited discussion, so I was providing my viewpoint as requested.

For even others like the after hours party, as I mentioned, I do not have enough information, but I asked where others information comes from if they are going to make statements about who is responsible, who is upset, or the magnitude of those it affects.

 

[DisneyFive]

Not sure if it's Chapek, but yes the park experience is seriously degraded in just 1-2 years for all the reasons already listed. Enough so that for the first time I'm considering checking out the Universal park experience.

WDW doesn't feel as welcoming now. Now it feels like they are trying to get as much out of us as possible, at our expense. Disney has always been a high cost vacation (not nearly as much as now), but along with that came amazing benefits... Magical Express, FP+, more affordable and longer special events, the list is long. Just a few years ago it somehow felt like they were there to make everything special for you... not anymore.

It doesn't feel like the special relationship we had before.

Dan

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Well, you are going to believe what you want, so facts are irrelevant then.

I don’t think you’re lying. However, I don’t care if you are an actual Disney Executive who was sitting in that meeting. Disney eliminated a service that cost money without lowering prices or increasing services elsewhere to compensate. If you don’t think profits and shareholder value was at least in the backs of the minds of those making that decision, well then I don’t really know how to respond further.

 

[Kickstart]

I was kind of staying out of this thread, as it's too easy to pick on the CEO. However, after reading the touring plans blog on Genie.... I've got to say it really doesn't seem like customer experience is on Chapek's list of priorities.

I was expecting the genie app to have some bugs and not be perfectly optimized.... but WOW... it's sounds atrocious! Just sending you to less desirable attractions all day (even if they're closed). Totally unacceptable.

Funny, if the idea was it would make things more "fair" to non-planners, that definitely backfired. I feel bad for the poor souls who follow the genie recommendations.

 

[Delirium]

Disney stock is up 46% since Chapek took over.

That's all that matters to him and to those who determine his (obscene) level of compensation.

That's likely mostly driven by the rollout of the streaming service. And, he's in a little bit of a honeymoon period with the parks re-opening and people with a little bit of extra cash heading to the parks. Both of those will fade after time. The product in the parks (at least in Florida) is not sustainable for long term growth.

 

[Delirium]

As I said above, the boon from the rollout of the streaming service was bound to fade. Seems like it already has.

Disney stock downgraded just this week.

 

[Leight19]

I was kind of staying out of this thread, as it's too easy to pick on the CEO. However, after reading the touring plans blog on Genie.... I've got to say it really doesn't seem like customer experience is on Chapek's list of priorities.

I was expecting the genie app to have some bugs and not be perfectly optimized.... but WOW... it's sounds atrocious! Just sending you to less desirable attractions all day (even if they're closed). Totally unacceptable.

Funny, if the idea was it would make things more "fair" to non-planners, that definitely backfired. I feel bad for the poor souls who follow the genie recommendations.

I’ve been very critical of the genie stuff and don’t think it’s designed to help guests but to control crowds and generate profit. That said, I’m not a fan of how people have been testing genie from what I’ve seen on YouTube.

I’ve seen several videos where they skip rope drop and come in hour after park opens and put 8 prime rides in to complete by mid afternoon and are surprised genie spits out other attractions. The system can’t reduce waits and if someone travels like that it’s not going to be useful. If I was going to use I’d likely put in 2 or 3 rides as must do and could see enjoyment checking out some of the lower demand attractions that may not have been on my radar. I do think there’s vast room for improvement by letting you deselect rides you definfjrely don’t want or to weigh walking distance less. If these changes don’t happen then yes the system will be negative for guests who follow it unless they are completely naive or parks.

 

[Leight19]

Some things like DME I am providing information which I have inside knowledge of. I know exactly why these decisions were made since I was involved to some varying degree. Whether or not people choose to believe the facts I have no control over.

For others, yes - I completely agree are my opinion. My opinion about on-site perks are no more or less valid than another. I was merely pointing out that if there is disagreement, then it's hard to say whether or not Disney made the right call. The OP invited discussion, so I was providing my viewpoint as requested.

For even others like the after hours party, as I mentioned, I do not have enough information, but I asked where others information comes from if they are going to make statements about who is responsible, who is upset, or the magnitude of those it affects.

If you were involved in the decisions I feel that may be part of the disconnect if you are looking from business side rather then as the side of the customers. My understanding is decision makers were shocked at negative feedback for canceling the dme. One issue business sometimes have is they weigh things important to them rather then what’s important to customer. Even here you seem to be implying we’re wrong about wanting the service to continue even if in slightly different form.

You may feel the decisions were not made due to profit motives but that’s because you make assumptions of what is and isn’t possible based on budget and assumptions on what guest do and don’t want. In your example the service could continue; if patents were involved theres pathway to license the patent and continue without those companies. It may not be financially viable for Disney to do it but it’s definitely an option and to say profit didn’t play into this is a bit disingenuous because there was pathway to bring it back in previous form if money wasn’t an issue.

 

[Kickstart]

I’ve been very critical of the genie stuff and don’t think it’s designed to help guests but to control crowds and generate profit. That said, I’m not a fan of how people have been testing genie from what I’ve seen on YouTube.

I’ve seen several videos where they skip rope drop and come in hour after park opens and put 8 prime rides in to complete by mid afternoon and are surprised genie spits out other attractions. ...

Yeah, I've seen some of those videos also, but TouringPlans is pretty much the authority on WDW efficiency planning - and they did a comparison between their app and Genie, both starting at 9:25 am in the park. Genie's suggestions were quite shocking.

https://touringplans.com/blog/genie-testing-genie-and-touringplans-head-to-head/
I'm guessing Disney is going to try to improve this (maybe?).

 

[Leight19]

Yeah, I've seen some of those videos also, but TouringPlans is pretty much the authority on WDW efficiency planning - and they did a comparison between their app and Genie, both starting at 9:25 am in the park.

https://touringplans.com/blog/genie-testing-genie-and-touringplans-head-to-head/

Yeah I had seen this one but even they admit the systems are slightly different because they won’t recommend anything not on their list. I feel touring plans is much better option for regular guests who know exactly what they want to do in day. I feel Genie even in current form may be better then touring plans for Disney novice who knows little about parks or even someone like me who goes and does 1 or 2 big rides then moves around casually to see what I can do with little waits. That said, I believe touring plans may have indicated they could update their plans to make recommendations too and I’m confident theirs would be better end product as well.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I was kind of staying out of this thread, as it's too easy to pick on the CEO. However, after reading the touring plans blog on Genie.... I've got to say it really doesn't seem like customer experience is on Chapek's list of priorities.

I was expecting the genie app to have some bugs and not be perfectly optimized.... but WOW... it's sounds atrocious! Just sending you to less desirable attractions all day (even if they're closed). Totally unacceptable.

Funny, if the idea was it would make things more "fair" to non-planners, that definitely backfired. I feel bad for the poor souls who follow the genie recommendations.

Do you have a touringplans link to the blog post?

 

[Jennasis]

 

[Kickstart]

Do you have a touringplans link to the blog post?

https://touringplans.com/blog/genie-testing-genie-and-touringplans-head-to-head/
That may require a subscription, not sure.